Wow. So brilliantly put man. Bravo. My favorite ending in film history for sure.

But it was realistic

Definitely, I watched it because I thought it was a war movie, I stuck it out and was balling my eyes out at the end.

It’s this plot twist that made me decide never to watch this movie again! My emotions couldn’t take it.

Exactly.

FRANCO PEREZ there is always a choice

@FRANCO PEREZ There is always a choice. Whether one knows it or makes it is of no concern to the facts. Democrat/Laborite, are we?

@@yaknbo ... no, just like you, me, and them, I'll venture, we're all somewhat lost in many ways in this vast colossal enormity - its sheer giantess in scale - of the wonderment of life's multifaceted colouring box. In depth and beauty, there is as greater joy in the experience of a new birth, as there is in the exquisite agony in the experience of a loved-one's death ... and you have to live and live well, carrying this knowledge, with an understanding that everyone we love will one day die, and that we must therefore cherish them and keep them closest still, for this, and this alone ...

oscar wilde I agree, I think. All I meant was that each life is an opportunity in and of itself for choice as is almost every moment in it. Towards the end of ones life that notion can become quite hard to bear.

@@yaknbo to most, I suggest - speaking from my own later life and those that I care for and cared for from the same vintage - there is a contentment in ones expectations, in the most part. I recall Dennis Potter - a wonderfully talented and prolific playwrite - in his final months had gained a certain clarity. To quote him from memory, he said, "there's a cherry tree beneath my office window, and ordinarily at this time of year it will be carrying blossom. But because it is the last year I will ever witness it, it is the whitest fluffiest, blossomest blossom there could ever be ... " I will try to find this beautiful man's final interview for you and edit this post. To witness the compared magic of Vanessa Redgrave's "acted" final months, and Dennis Potter's "actual" final months, will surely show them at the very heights of their talent's : - [Edit] I've found it, and I can assure you it will astound you for his courage. Please, revel in your time, and do astounding, memorable wonder's with your short short life, so you can look back upon it with the grace you'll honour others, as I do you : - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jtaerLOdnZO-k4U.html

J.R. M you don’t get the meaning of the movie. She didn’t finish the novel until the end of her life because she wanted them to live in her imagination until her death. Bringing a closure to the novel was letting them go forever. The only way for her to keep them alive in her imagination was working on the novel for her entire life. Such a beautiful story.

@@manchesterr85 that’s still selfish? To live in HER imagination forever? To give her peace of mind? To give herself a false sense of tranquility that she could manipulate the story to make herself feel better? To not have to live with the repercussion of the novel release because she would be dead already? Idk mate she still seems pretty selfish to me, doesn’t mean i don’t think this is a masterpiece but this lady never cared to even try to come clean with her sister. Nothing. She put herself first

@@aprildew9099 debatable though dude because she's just trashed her whole persona and reputation. She could have just not said anything. Great discussion though.

@@manchesterr85 No matter how much people twist it, Briony deserves the deepest corner of hell when she dies. I don't understand how anyone can have sympathy for such a low bitch.

@@VuTran-mf7kj they have "pity" for her & ignore Robbie's mother who had to see her only son's despair . That rich lying brat doesn't deserve any pinch of sympathy! She manipulated the story & what many people don't understand is she isn't a reliable writer. She couldn't let the truth stand even in the end , she viewed Robbie & Cecelia as her characters whom she could control instead of real people. The "I wanted them to stay alive in my imagination" bs is for people to sympathise with her. Robbie's mother screamed "you lairs" when they were taking him away & she heard those screams but still stayed silent , can't imagine how she could sleep with that. If anything Briony still didn't change & didn't even show herself fully guilty of what she did. Seems to me she was content with life after she gave herself a happy ending by believing in her own imaginative lies.

No. She lived a whole peaceful life without ever thinking of revealing the truth. Then she waited until she was near death to give out the truth to try earning a ticket to Heaven. That's all.

@@VuTran-mf7kj No. The damage was done, the book was written as a way of forgiving herself, that is why it is called Atonement.

@@VuTran-mf7kj I think she felt like she destroyed her sisters life , so as robbie's life , this book was a way of giving her the life she deserved

@@VuTran-mf7kj She lived 'peaceful life', but her mind was never at peace. She still wore the same hairstyle throughout her life, which is like she's stuck and never moved on from her past. It was a fake peaceful life.

@@VuTran-mf7kj In the book, she says that she couldn't publish it while Lola and Paul Marshall were alive, because they would sue. Also, Briony states that she's an atheist. Or, rather, in her opinion, a novelist is like God: a novelist creates the world, populates it and decides the fates over his/her people. One finds atonement with God, but because Briony is a novelist/atheist, she had to find atonement in herself.

She caused everything, she deserved the burden

A burden that was self inflicted and caused the paramount of life changing events for Robbie and Cecilia She deserved it is a strong, but she had all the chances to end it not carry it However we wouldn't have had a masterpiece without it

Yes Oscars could have made history nominating three actresses in the same category playing the same character in a movie

Xi DIAMOND Vanessa would be under supporting actress with saoirse. She’s in five minutes of the film.

@@xidiamond6851 Her speech in 1972 when she received the Oscar is the best speech in the Oscar history.

"I.. gave them.. their happiness." No, Briony, you completely ripped it away.

Clueless

One way to look at it is that she gave them their false happiness in order to feel better about herself. Since she's dying, it could offer a feeling of closure for her.

@@aume00sa No she deserves to feel guilty about it forever fuck her

Agreed

Same.

I read the book first, I'll never forget it. We were in a little bookstore in Key Largo, and I asked the guy to recommend a book for me to read while we were out on the boat. He didn't hesitate, and handed me Atonement.

Cauzin Diem i read this book like my life depended on it. pissed me off lol

the vote would be spilt with her and ronan tho

It actually splitted votes for both Redgrave and Romola Garai, lucky for us Saoirse Ronan achieved her first of many to come!

Very interesting, because Robbie got scared that Cecelia might drown in the fountain, or at least it seemed that way to me. He was worried for her, wanted to save her, felt relief when she came out of the water. He didn't want to do the same for Briony when she was in serious danger of drowning caused by herself, but he did it anyways, but was mad about it (understandably so). He didn't love her the way he loved Cecelia. And then, when Cecelia actually drowned in the end, Robbie couldn't save her... The parallels hurt so much.

​@@kiirosoleil you are fantastic! Never thought about these parallelisms

Yes

She kept both Saoirse and Romola in mind as she performed, for unity

I have to agree with you on that one AK-oi7ch. She may have been wracked with guilt her entire life as she should have and may even have been genuinely sorry for her foolish, selfish actions that destroyed two innocent lives but their happiness was not hers or anyone else's to give. The reason they were happy to begin with is because they were both pure-hearted souls who fell in love. Happiness was something they created for each other and not something that could be given to them in a book of fiction.

I so agree. The story is called Atonement but she never amended anything. Writing a happy ending for them doesnt change how miserable you made them when they were alive.

True, but her childhood lie did not just destroy Robbie and Cecilia's lives, but also her own. Briony was a child on the brink of puberty, but only on the brink. Not quite understanding sexuality, never having noticed before that her sister and Robbie, who she adores in a very childlike fashion, are in love. The very day that she starts to notice things - by accidently reading Robbie's letter (the 'wrong' letter he never meant to send to Cecilia in the first place because it's the frustrated outpouring of his frustrated desire for her), by seeing flashes of things (Cecilia wet next to the pond, sharing strange looks with Robbie, the kissing scene in the library, etc.) - the very day she start to notice things, is the very fateful day her older and far more knowledgeable about sex cousin is raped. The things her cousing tell her, the raunchy bits from Robbie's letter, the strange tension between Robbie and Cecilia and Briony's fertile writer's brain all combine to make Briony utterly believe that Robbie wants to hurt Cecilia. HAS hurt her, in fact. We know, because we are adults AND we are shown the things Briony does not see, that the tension between Robbie and Cecilia is merely that of two young people very much in love, but from young Briony's perspective, things look very different. So her lie, whilst still a lie in the strict sense is not really a lie in the broader sense. She utterly believes that Robbie is a 'sex maniac' who wants to hurt her sister. And so Robbie is whisked away, Cecilia is furious and leaves home and Briony is protectively hidden away at home and only starts to realise that she was wrong, that what she saw was not the interaction of a predator and his prey but of two people who desire eachother, when she is years older. By that time, war has broken out, Robbie is in Dunkirk and Briony starts nursing wounded soldiers. She hasn't seen Cecilia ever since that fateful day, but wants to talk to her. To atone... only for it to be too late because Robbie and Cecilia die at the very start of that war..when Briony isn't very much more than a teenager. So while Robbie and Ceciiia are the victims, I can't help but feel sorry for Briony as well. Her childish misconstrueing of events and her one lie destroyed not two lives but three; Robbie's, Cecilia's and her own. And yet, Briony is an unreliable narrator... because people don't get convicted of rape on a single lie by an eleven year old, made at a single occasion. If there had been a proper investigation, and she had been questioned by police, or by a lawyer at the trial, she would not have been able to keep repeating that lie. Turns that her rich and important family took measures that she would not be questioned by police, which is why Cecilia fell out with her family. Robbie had been the family's pet project, after all. The son of a servant with brains and a talent for learning, so the family paid for his education. But pet project or no, he was not supposed to marry the daughter of the house, and when he is accused of rape, it's a handy excuse for them to 'get rid' of him. But in Briony's mind, it was HER fault, and her fault alone, which ruined Robbie and Cecilia's lives, and she lives her entire life under that huge block of guilt and remore, wanting to atone, and never being able to. It's a brilliant film, with the same sense of unescapable doom as a Greek tragedy.

@@Smallpotato1965 brilliant text, thank you, fully agree.

The lie destroyed far more than 2 lives. Robbie and Cecilia obviously, but also their families were torn apart, Lola never got justice and even wound up MARRYING her rapist, and even Briony destroyed her own life forever by living in constant guilt, a successful writer maybe but she was completely alone and hated herself

@@oliviapete Small note about Lola, Briony may have lied but that was because Lola gave her the insinuation that Robbie did it (several other factors included). While Lola is a victim she was also complicit in lying for Paul. Paul was going to marry her even if the rape wasn’t brought up. He’d marry her even if Briony accused someone else. Despite all that, it was completely normal for women to marry their abusers around that time, considering the alarmingly high rate in which women were abused around those times, it’s not a stretch to say they’d been assaulted before then. Bottom line, Briony is not at fault for Lolas conclusion, that ball was rolling as soon as Paul set his eyes on her.

Beautifully written. I wouldn't read too much into the hair though. Having similar hair and clothes is just a very typical trick to make different people of different age look recognizable as one specific character.

​@@sunnysolaris23 Yes, but little things like that can be symbolic in movies which is why I think they were questioning that consistent style choice throughout all the stages of her life.

@@linas2969I agree I see her hair actually as her “character” or maybe visage. It worked on the kid briony but it looked goofy on her older versions lmao. Though across the three actresses the hair helps tell the story 🤔

If they regret it, of course. I can't say the same to Paul.

Hello just some german students who have to comment on your comment in an english lesson. This comment is literally in a schoolbook in Germany 😂

Just another German student who have to comment on your comment in English lesson You have made it!

Calm down, this was great, but not monumental.

I heard that keira knightley needed therapy after this movie

It’s crazy that she only had 5 minutes of screen time but the way she delivers these lines is as heartbreaking as it is elegant and endearing.

how is it sweet? T.T

I know same. Obviously she was a foolish, naive, and maybe even selfish when she was a kid but she was just a child and even though it really sucks all the pain she had caused you have to realize that as she got older and matured she understood and felt very guilty for her own fault and amended it in the end. She did the best she could in the end.

She felt guilty because, in the end, Robbie and her sister died during the war and never had the happiness she felt they deserved. Yet, lost in all the emotion is the foolishness and innocence of her guilt. Did she bomb London herself? Did she cause disease to spread among the Allied troops? Yet, she carries guilt as if she could have stopped these forces that killed millions. I think her response is very human and shows what a great person she is inside. But, it's completely foolish. The war killed millions upon millions, two of which were Robbie and her sister. It simply wasn't her fault at all. And it wasn't because of what she did when she was 13......She imagines Robbie to be very angry when he sees her. I imagine Robbie to be very happy, he begs for her forgiveness because he knows he should have said something that night in the library......he should have said something to help the child understand, he just didn't know what to say.

@@davidking4838 remember the novel is written in Briony's point of view & she isn't a reliable writer! If anything , Robbie , Cecelia & Robbie's mother deserved sympathy not that rich lying brat of a girl. She lied abt it even tho she knew he didn't do it . She could hear his mother's screams when she yelled "you liars" as they were taking him away but she still stayed silent. She had 3 yrs time to talk to her own family abt it , her sister & bring him out. She waited till she was 18? Robbie was her crush so it's obvious that she had retaliation against him after she saw him & Cecelia all over each other at the library , she couldn't stand seeing them together. When she got older she waited till it was too late cuz then they won't ever be happily together. Briony as a young lady , was alone & no man could replace Robbie for her. She was probably hoping that Robbie would forgive her & love her instead of her sister. She said she was a coward to face her sister even tho she knew her address. And even at 77 , she didn't show herself fully guilty. She manipulated their truth , their story to escape from her conscience. All the happy ending crap was not for them , it was for herself .

She’s a coward, she always was and still is. I don’t hate her either. That ending in her book wasn’t for them it was 100 percent for her. She allowed a rapist to run free, only revealed the truth of Robbie only decades after his death, and still didn’t choose to tell the truth in her book, rather create a more marketable story both for the readers and herself. Basically as an act to forgive herself. I don’t hate her tho, because I know she’s suffered every day of her life knowing what a terrible thing she’d done.

People can make terrible mistakes when they are young with no life experience or judgement. Briony's mistake had terrible consequences. Most people are more fortunate and their mistakes don't destroy other people.

I understand you, after I watched the movie the first time I never rewatched it for years. But then I did and now I rewatch it 1 or 2 times a year, ofc always crying, and I love it more and more every single time!

You're the first person I've seen suspect that Lola and Paul were having consensual sex

@@xidiamond6851 well, Lola was underage so technically she can't consent to a sexual act, but she falsely blamed Robbie and helped Paul and eventually they got married and let an innocent person rot in prison. That's why they felt shame when they saw Briony at their wedding.

@@flightofthestars that's how they get away with it. The doting and attention (which makes the child feel special), is used against them by making them 'complicit'

I wouldn't have blamed Lola. I thought she didn't know it was Paul she didn't properly see him.

@@tristantries9211 She knew. He'd assaulted her earlier in the day. Remember the dinner scene?

If this happened today Robbie would've been put on the horrible/heinous/unjust sex offender registry & forced to register as a sex offender for whatever amount of time

?.... f

Those movies and the book thief’s ending😭😭🥹

"i could have gotten one more...."

@@byronbranch4645 This ring, one more life 😢

@@ultravioletron 😭😭😭 the look on his face and when his Assistent tells him he did so much for so many ....😭😭😭

4 people😢

It just hits you especially how her sister and Robbie died 😭

Very interesting take on it. Most would see it the opposite. That even in the end, she was foolish and naive to what she's done and that her gesture to "give them their happiness" to be utterly misguided.

Art has very little to do with this story

@@jordanlevitt1638 then you do not understand the point of the film

Exactly... what else could she do to amend it. We all wronged others.

Art is nothing compared to the life it's derived from. Art is nothing compared to feelings.

same here

Chanel Miller is a real life example of someone who's great lie not only destroyed an actual innocent person's life and reputation beyond repair but also robbed their future. Brock Turner was factually falsely accused & wrongfully convicted.

@@goldenvulture6818 How was he falsely accused when two people quite literally caught that little creep in the act?

@@goldenvulture6818 "non-opinionated" haha that's funny. Brock Turner assaulted someone without consent and got caught in the act. The only reason his life was destroyed waws because of his own personal choices.

@@piratesswoop725 You wanna continue believing & perpetuating those unforgivable/heinous lies about what happened then be my guest

@@goldenvulture6818 Brock? That you, buddy? How were the prison showers? Better than getting reamed on a gravel driveway, or.. ?

Her age wasn't what made it enough for her to understand. It was her mentality.

Movies can change your life, well, art in general can change your life. Possibly, that is the reason why art has been in the humankind history since it started to be created by the first genius.

I admit that, for many years I couldn't accept Saoirse Ronan and I didn't like her, only because Briony lol she's absolutely an amazing actress

lol

I think you got the greatest homework🤯

You *do* know you still can, right....??

For me it’s a very rare example when movie and book are so good equally

her daughter died 3 years after Atonment was filmed - shes just a very GOOD actor.

Yeah and Liam Neeson is her son in law since he was with Natasha and the father of her sons & Vanessa's grandsons

She has no right to forgive herself. There are some actions that cannot be forgiven. Making false accusations out of jealousy, leading to the death of two people, is not a mistake nor is it forgivable. Mistakes aren’t intentional. What she did was calculated and her cowardice to only admit to having done it (not accepting blame in any way) when she was dying tells that she never truly felt sorry about it.

1

​@@phynchen8139Only you get to decide if you forgive yourself, no one else has a say in that

Briony Tallis is the fictional version of real life actual false accuser Chanel Miller

Yep he died in 2008

She definitely never got past everything… her appearance alone shows that ( same hair style and what not)

"She didn't do anything to improve anyone's lives she wrecked" well how was she supposed to to that, they were already dead? That's the point, there is absolutely no way for her to atone for her lies since the victims of them are already gone, so she desperately turns to fiction to try to ease her guilt (probably to no avail) because what else can she do?

But she's not protecting her reputation... what's sad is that she really thinks she witnessed something and in a way she had. Lola was underage, so even if Paul had her consent it was still rape... they just manipulated her into believing the assailant was Robbie. It's hard say whether this was an easy or difficult task, as Robbie was Briony's crush she may have refused to believe such ill of him but wanted to punish him for not being hers.

Like a lived dream ... I know you cried