I mean his melee damage with stock is kind of a joke, what makes people think a push from him would do?

@@Mega_idk Given Scout's weight, pushing a Heavy with a 150 kg minigun 2 feet in the air is a pretty strong feat. Scout with his in-game melee damage is just him flailing quick swings with one arm. In the Meet the Medic trailer, he can one shot a Soldier with it. In-game, if he uses two arms he will send the person flying (taunt kill). This is a canon feat since he can kill a bear with a single swing and even take the full recoil of the Force-A-Nature that sends him up in the air.

Scout can literally shove the 400 pound Heavy with the 300 pound Minigun quite some distance, if anything Scout is ridiculously strong for his weight and size. Not to mention, Scout can swing a bat with one hand for his melee without being affected by the vibrations and recoil from striking something solid with said bat. It's likely that Scout doesn't swing the bat full force in his regular melee attack, as he can be seen killing a bear with a single one handed blow when properly putting muscle into it. And that's not taking into consideration that he can fling grown men 50 or so meters into the air when swinging the bat with both hands

@@theshermantanker7043 Don't even start about his defense. The guy can survive getting ALL the blood in his body removed after getting punched by a guy who can lift a bear larger than a plane.

these 2 need a shove mechanic. Heavy does a small "wario charge" Soldier uses a shild to throw you alway

I agree

Himiko's favorite primary

I thought it would be at least fun to use around cliffs but it’s impossible to get anything done.

Its called shove not push, also “shake my head my head” XD

@@shuckid8290 man doesn't have two heads smh my head

lol

Strangely applicable.

I would rather hold the pistol.

@Catfish then that would be kinda broken because now u cover all ranges and do more damage then a pistol with more ammo if it was a secondary, That would be sick as hell tho!

@Catfish I would say a bit less dmg and a tiny slower fire rate

To be fair he did promise

I guess sniper really is down under after all!

"LONG LIVE THE KING..."

He is polite.

he was one of the RNGods in disguise

I gots an idea for it tell me what you think. It should fire 5 pellets that deal 12 damage so 60 damage a shot .and if right mouse it fires all the shots but at a 35%less damage so it adds up to a 160 damage burst . But the things spread is wider than stock and falls off sooner. So its a high damage burst weapon that reloads fast but at anything other than close to close-mid range it worse than stock. Also m1 fires faster so its not super weak at 60 damage a shot.

@@pissthrower4477 the short stop is supposed to be better at mid-long range lol

@@zaroio2533 ya its a different way of looking at it. It does have short in the name. Maybe it could easily stop people at shot range.

@@pissthrower4477 Scout named it the Shortstop after the thing that one chick with the bucket of chicken called him mid-intercourse, except that he didn't know what it meant

@@pissthrower4477 It doesn't need changing to make it better, its arguably better than his stock because of the instant reload with little downsides. The damage doesn't fall off as much as you'd figure, from my experience using it.

I once died to a *_random crit shove_* . That was over 8 months ago and I haven't touched the game since

@DragonfishJames shove deals 1 damage, i had 3 health left and was running to a health pack, i got shoved and died. and the scout started freaking out about the random crit shove.

@@LeoYoshi54321 A *fucking what*

@DragonfishJames it is the ultimate shame, i can not play TF2 again

Why is the face in your profile picture fit so well with what you’re saying.

Phlogistinator, Scorch Shot, and Wrangler: *it's free real estate!*

@@flopaflop420 why wrangler manual aiming sucks and the shield does do little when the sentry is out ranges. The short circuit seems like the more annoying one with how for solider if he doesn’t have a shotgun he can’t fight at all.

@@ImprisionArchieves Found the soldier main who shout at medics at pub for healing the 12 hp scout instead of pocketing him. short circuit is extremely balanced and a good sidegrade in most situations, and in cases where engineers can abuse it's alt fire by the infinite metal supply of the payload usually good coordination and a few flankers can solve the case even easier than flanking regular engineers since the alt fire spamming engies usually have huge tunnelvision on the other hand, the wrangler actually give sentries a 66% damage resistance so a competent engineer can completely negate multiple uberpushes . as a medic/engineer/demo main i can say the wrangler is annoying af

@@PissJohn first off all defensive Scottish resistance or engine main. I was just saying that in a lot of cinarios the short circuit can deny the right to attack with certain sets which can be annoying to fight against.

@@PissJohn also wrangler got nerfed so it can’t survive Uber and one spy during the wrangler messes it up and you rip threw ammo so fast that you can’t keep using wrangler so your more likely just salty at engineers who can actually use the tool effectively, ( I’m also a short circuit engineer so yeah you got that completely wrong )

@@CricetoFunni Yes, it’s designed to be mid range but the damage fall off is still the same.

@@CricetoFunni + Reduced damage falloff + Fixed shot pattern

@@CricetoFunni I've played on a server where they merely buffed its reload speed. Made the sounds of the reload not match up but the extra reload speed was nice. However, that shove... why does it exist? Outside of having a low damaging way to mess with friendly players, I don't see much good use for it. Any opportunities where you can shove a player into danger you are better off just shooting them... or even using the Force-A-Nature instead. The weapon plays best at ranges where the shove isn't useful.

​​@@CricetoFunnisame thing i did had as an idea for my Weapon Rebalance ideas, basically, the minimum fall-off becomes 50% to 75% so Also, the hidden stat of 33% less maximum Ramp-up (175% to 150%) would be removed, so it can be better close range.

​@@Techhunter_Talonhonestly the Shove should get an more Airblast-like air strafe reduction so, like, not as bad as Airblast's one but still.

someone actually did that to me in a server and was very funny

the only friendly way to kill someone is by either taunting (some might seem friendly, like the heavy pow one, as it does not require guns) or pushing people with the shortstop

@@robyjacker Throw Jarate at them then laugh.

I wish the shortstop had a faster firing speed by just a little

In a nutshell, yes

@Poe Soul that would create the stop light combo; force o, nature, shortstop, sandman

@Poe Soul It would be a bit op, because not only would you have the Scattergun, amongst the strongest weapons in the game, now you have a mid to long range mini-shotgun-thing, allowing you to finishing off targets outside your Scattergun range

Oh my god, you're so right.

valve weapon balances are honestly absolutely baffaling like "theres this laser pistol that does jack shit, guess we gotta nerf it to the 7th circle of hell, also lets buff the scorch shot again, thats a good idea"

@@gangstascout3593 At least it's not as bad as Blizzard's balancing, those guys could give mercy a tool to instantly and permanently heal all teammates with no penalties and think it's balanced.

There was a time when if you got jarated, it would last so long that you could drink the crit-a-cola (which made you take mini crits at this time), run for the entire duration of the drink and shoot people, and still be affected by the debuff. And at this time jarate was used by just about everyone in pubs. If you were running the stock scattergun and tried to meatshot a Sniper, there was enough time for him, if his ping was low and his reaction was good, to turn and jarate you even if you'd get your next shot in before he could switch to his melee. So the version that made you take mini crits mean you had no downsides if you drank it immediately after being jarated. When they changed it to the damage debuff that you couldn't be one shot by a non direct hit rocket, it was sort of a nerf if the other side had 3 snipers since the jarate and the damage debuff would stack and that meant any chip damage would hurt a lot. So they gave it an all around buff, but made it less useful against an already overpowered weapon...

My favorite game developer Value

@@Artician*battle mercy flashbacks*

yes.

id keep the shove and make it a bit more ranged and powerful for the memes lol

leave the shove in, it doesn't harm the scout and you can technically combo the shove with the shortstop shots. if he's gonna be entering melee range for it at least let it be rewarding

I feel like giving it a fixed shot pattern would make it harder to do more damage at mid-range, since fixed shot patterns (usually) have the spread built in, making some of your pellets impossible to ever hit (at mid-range), while without the fixed shot pattern, you can get lucky and hit with all your pellets. I've never played the game with a fixed shot pattern on the shortstop, so I don't actually know if what I said would be the case for that weapon in particular, but from what I know, it probably would be. I'd say that the only change it could really use to be better, but still balanced, would be to give it the same max ramp-up as all the other scatterguns, so it does 175% damage at close range instead of 150%. Then, it would do 21-84 damage at close range, instead of 18-72, which is still less than the stock's 11-105, but if you're good at aiming it, it should be the superior weapon, since you'll hit with more of the pellets. If they did what you're suggesting, it would be almost a straight upgrade to stock. It would have the same theoretical max damage as stock (except for meatshots, which would deal 18-90 damage, compared to stock's 11-105), reload more efficiently, have more consistent damage, and the pellets would be easier to hit with, in exchange for holding 33% less ammo.

@@clunk42 big disagree. you can get unlucky with the spread and miss everything, so fixed pattern is better. not to mention that shortstop already has a tighter spread so it works out.

make the push force really long range and really strong force and it would be ok

for me it's 10:30 am

same

Yes. It helps me survive the meetings

Same here

I'm number 3. Mostly because I treat it like I would the direct hit at range.

My option- if theres a bunch of pyros I want to just backpedal

@@rickjenkins5719 use a pistol for that

When I started playing TF2, I grabbed every unlock, assuming that if the game has weapons purchasable by real money, it must be P2W.

Pretty much every bad weapon falls in those categories

Thats what I’m sayin

I'm honestly glad every time i hear an annoying squeaker, new people are coming to the game to keep it alive

@@dangergun2346 Do I wanna hear squeakers? No. Do I appreciate that squeakers are helping keep the game alive? Yes.

@@PhoenixStriker1 sometimes hearing squeakers are funny, sometimes it isnt

@@perhapsYoYo and sometimes the squeker has been playing for a year and is better than you, the you enter an existencial crisis of you losing your abilities of old age, your reflexes and your self worth. The he gets vacbanned

@@catrielmarignaclionti4518 worth it

Imma message in case this comment blows up, but also true

I use the shortstop to snipe sentries .-.

I love you and I hate you.

you ask for it - make a post on tacobot.tf -

to get the bots killed or the teammates

the shortstop has reversed fall off

@@maxhadanidea it does not. each bullet simply does double damage, and there are only 4 pellets per shot instead of 10. it may seem like it has reduced fall-off compared to the other scatterguns, but it's not a stat of the weapon, as the damage fall-off values are still the same for the shortstop. what i'm saying is that the shortstop should have the damage fall-off value changed so it's actually effective at a mid range, instead of just okayish at mid range

@@stetstetstitstreats oh

lmao

good eyes

Damn you’re right

Back scatter is so underrated. You basically just treat it like a spectrum, from shortstop to stock to back scatter. It peaks at close range and is much easier to drop snipers and meds with.

From my experience, a Syringe Gun can do the same thing if you're a crack shot.

@@TheKing-qz9wd Guess what Medic primary I use.

If you do well with the Back scatter its not because the weapon is viable its because you’re a competent scout but no matter how well you do with the back scatter im sorry to say you’d do better with stock

@@jynxvxa8342 I know I would do better with stock. I use it because I enjoy it as a nice challenge. It’s like beating FNF on hard instead of normal: it’s fun and rewarding to do well with the harder setting.

if you're at the range to push him away, considering it takes half a second for the shove to push the spy away, bodyblocking is going to be more effective and consistent. Don't search for a reason to use the shove, it's BAD

@@gamingmaster6377 You won't always be in a position to body block him, especially if you're coming from the side while the spy is Right at your medic. I'm not saying it excuses the weapon, but at least it's a use for an otherwise useless ability

Just... shoot him? It's just 2 shots to kill him, he only has 125 health after all...

@@vyor8837 You must be assuming I have good aim, which I don't.

@@lamb6276 I guess that's fair

That’s definitely way better than the shove in terms of usage.

Or maybe it'd fire 2 shots at the same time with double the spread? Would help give it *some* close range punch and be good as a panic (if you aim)

brass beast

The second one

God damn it almost 400 people forgot the brass beast

@@techedbirb6663 lol

@@techedbirb6663 666 now

Or just have the pellets have some kind of reverse damage falloff, kind of like the Crossbow. Would make the gun a lot more satisfying to use.

Problem is that it's gonna be a bit hard to balance. You do NOT want the shortstop to deal as much damage as a close range scatter gun. If it's strong enough to be noticeable on the ennemi's part the stat would have to be lowered.

@@bawower474 What if like the other dude said make it do reverse falloff? It does more at arange but less at CQC.

@@mariustan9275 that would be overpowered.

@@vyor8837 Yeah come to think of it that would be pretty strong. While reduced damage falloff is interesting for someone like Scout whose Shortstop isn't too bad it could potentially be OP. Maybe just reduced falloff. Also give it a decent secondary ability that isn't mostly useless like Maybe reduce secondary cooldown on kill.

Pain

As fun as being the spy disguised as Huntsman Sniper

as is the case with playing spy

Regular spy gameplay

Dont worry he’ll talk about the bat saber soon

@@bajangaco4019 NOO

@@cinemalazare4850 you owe me 1000$ if he does

@@bajangaco4019 lol

@@cinemalazare4850 better start saving

Casual: Umm... The higher damage is gud but the the slower rev up- MVM: _T H A T ' S A L O T O F D A M A G E_

@@Breakaway-ic5gj gotta love how the gas passer is both the worst weapon in casual and the best weapon in mvm

@Aquarium Gravel The proper MvM Scout main grindset. Only collect cash and do absolutely nothing else.

@@YourLocalRaider mad milk? Marking robots? Killing snipers? Shooting giants? Who needs all that shwicky scwack

I think the shove is more of a push to push them away to encourage scouts to be more mid range, i think valve just mis-interpreted and called it a shove, the reason why the shove is weak is because its also to get away faster into mid-range

Because it is hilarious, and meant for bullying people.

it's really more useful in MvM than he lets on... if you play with misc randoms. I've saved more games than I care to count by pitting the bomb bot with the shove, or just bodyblocking/jostling bots around with ti.

Because it's funny

Righteous Bison: Am I a joke to you?

bojler eladó

The hard math.

@@TheKing-qz9wd the hard meth

@@rakstar343 call walter white

I think that's the same man who has found the damage calculation of the Equalizer

I gots an idea for it tell me what you think. It should fire 5 shots that deal 12 damage so 60 a shot, and if right mouse it fires all the shots but at a 35%less damage so it adds up to a 160 damage burst . But the things spread is wider than stock and falls off sooner. So its a high damage burst weapon that reloads fast but at anything other than close to close-mid range it worse than stock.

@@pissthrower4477 TL;DR at the end. I don’t personally like this weapon change because it does 60 damage when the short stop does 70 damage and still isn’t very good. 60 damage is not only less than the current version, but is literally less damage than most melee weapons (on other classes). However dealing 160 damage for the alt-fire with the only needs being to get close and press the right mouse button, seems like it would be incredibly annoying. That would one-shot 5 out of 9 classes and leave 3 of the other classes scrambling with 40-15 health. And considering scout can so easily get close to someone due to his speed, this might be arguably just as annoying as a stock + crit a cola combo. So imagine getting minicrits and then insta-killing 8 out of 9 classes with this changed shortstop and crit a cola, because 160 times 135% (minicrit damage) makes for 216 damage. That would literally instantly decimate a lv. 3 building if they took crit/minicrit damage. TL;DR This version of the shot stop would have a worse version of the current primary fire, but would have an overpowered alt-fire.

@@pissthrower4477 Don’t feel discouraged to make weapon concepts though since not only is it fun, but you get better at making balanced concepts the more you learn about how to balance items.

the shortstop is perfect for the community mode vs saxton hale, especially on bigger maps like reservoir. the tighter spread lets you stay far away from the hale while still managing to do insane damage. hell, even the shove can be useful against a vagineer who just raged and is going for your medic, or on skyhigh resort which you can use the shove to push a hale off the map or, if you're lucky, into a train. the shove mechanic can actually be better than airblast because airblast gives the hale free rage, while the shove does not

fist of steel kind of screws over a sniper for little tradeoff

It's that Seth Rogen-like voice, isn't it?

@@poopyjoe7435 he deserves it

exactly, i dont even think it deserves a bad weapon academy

The shortstop is not bad. It just changes your play style. Same thing goes with weapons like The Huntsman, Sydney Sleeper and Market Gardener

@@thepersonman5380 yea i think he needed to use it more, because it really isnt that bad

It's not bad, but you should use stock in almost every situation. And while Force-a-Nature is still some-what good, because it has good burst to compensate lower dps, Shortstop is just better in medium range. Like, why would you use Scout over Demo/Soldier in mid-range combat?

@@ebanatnatria6409 well the scattergun is just waay better than the other ones, the reason i dont use it is because its ugly lol

What

Except the time you spend shoving is time spent _not_ shooting or reloading and _not_ running away normally (and instead being relatively predictable by getting point-blank to land the shove). You'll either die from the start-up of the shove or the endlag of the shove, even if you land it. so ye valve pls fix

The Scout will also be out of your shove range most likely since being out of shove range and shooting still does a good amount of damage. And there is nothing stopping the Scout from just firing at you when you push him away, most likely dealing more damage then when you just moved out of its effect range. Plus, the bats might be actually useful with this weapon since it will deal more damage than a point blank Shortstop shot so you can just hit him to scare him away into Shortstop range and dealing a good amount of damage to finish the Scout.

Yeah I never said it was good or actually useful, it still sucks, I was just trying to suggest why it might have been added in the first place.

Didn’t he literally just say this thing in the video (except for no specified class) at 6:56?

@@slysamuel5902 i mean scout is the only class it might be half useful to use against

Wait, I thought the ammo sharing was removed. Is it still there?

Yeah the candy cane would be way better.

The ammo sharing part was removed sadly, it was a cool gimmick though

@@CongaYT was it though? Was it really? I just remember it being frustrating because it meant I couldn't use pistols with it unless I wanted to constantly be put of ammo

@@AbadabaForever Crap, y'all are right. Sorry about that -- weird memory hole on my part.

Good thinkin

The Scorch Shot: Only aim at your feet The Ubersaw: Play on no random crit server The Wrangler: Constantly hold M1 + M2 and *really* don’t try to aim too well Jarate: Aim much higher than you plan to

@@dankmachine The Wrangler plan may fail to Aim Assist

Direct Hit: Stand on the other side of a the map and aim where your opponents currently are

@@dankmachine Basher: h i t t h e a i r

Someone needs to animate this!

sund smit tf2

You sayin valve needs jesus

I think it would make morse sense as a square, given the barrel pattern.

A health boost would also make the sandman ok again

+10 max health, idk if its enough, it gives 200 overheal atleast

Blackbox Scout?

@@mjsugod1385 That's the pocket pistol.

​@@radonnawisdom6723 I mean, Sandman right now has the problem of low reward but high punishment. I think that it deserves to have it's -15 health be removed.

2AM for me when this was posted

i saw this uploaded 10 hours ago at 2am

@@abhijithsenthilnathan9841 "Albert Einstein says time is irrelevant" -MrBeast, 2019.

Flava Flav has always been a Clockwork idea so really I’m not a soundsmith wanna be I’m a clockwork Smurf wanna be. A quote by Soundsmith

and it used to using the same ammo thing.

Love how changing the Shortstop to secondary will immediately make jt sound good. Exchanging a faster automatic pistol for a burst shot secondary is a welcome one, especially when paired with the Scattergun.

it’s literally a second pistol looks like a pistol, fires like a pistol (except with 4 barrels), supposed to use in mid-long range (not close range) might as well make it an actual pistol

Yes

@@habibazizi7091 idk why im getting likes all im doing is saying whats on everyones minds

No joke,this is one of my most awaited series on YT now.

@@mysoncrumphaseveryinjury3853 this divine being is saving us from the depressing life we live for a few minutes a day and i can respect that.

@@bajangaco4019 WE MEET AGAIN

Airblast has a decent range so it's possible to reflect with it.

Okay, the set bonuses were terrible, though. We can all agree Valve sucks at balancing, but let's not defend pay-to-win in the same breath.

“Like I’m a *Shortstop*” *proceeds to bonk the heavy from medium to long range*

Welp time to edit it to say weaker

no?

it’s not necessarily weaker, just made for different things FaN is used for close range to delete an enemy, while shortstop is used for skirmishes at medium ranges for sustained damage.

It really is only considered a bad weapon because of its shove mechanic which is VERY situational.

@@missiontimpossible9994 I get that sorta, but the weapon is objectively better off with it. I'm not saying it's great, but at worst you don't use it, at best you use it in situational cases. It doesn't make the weapon worse for having it

I think it's because valve pissed in our cereal by suggesting that the shove mechanic was worth trading for 20% bonus healing

You are right

I think it's another one of these weapons that i see a lot in TF2 that are touted as being crap but shine in skilled hands. like the Candycane, Direct Hit, etc. I agree with you i think it's a fine weapon, though i do still feel the shove isn't so great.

Finally someone mentioned him

I see push has come to shove with these puns

Dr. Bright is no longer allowed to make any puns whatsoever

it's perfectly fine for combat. And I really don't understand why he kept... randomly pressing M2?

I like the idea of increasing the damage after every consecutive shot, I've never heard that idea. I also agree that 20% less damage is way too steep, it should definitely be 15%-10%. The healing mechanique was fun as hell but kinda broken, id say remove the shove and replace it with a weaker version of the healing machanique. If valve did this the shortstop would go from a niche to an actual viable choice next to stock.

@@MrH0m30wner I agree, but I don’t really see a point in removing the shove as it’s pretty much useless and doesn’t effect serious play, it shouldn’t be removed because of how good it is for goofin off

there's really no point on showing people how to best utilize already good weapons

@@Luc-vb6zt I mean he can say how to nerf and balance them or something

@@Luc-vb6zt he can do the opposite, like show them how to "not use" the weapon

He already kind of is. He made a post on youtube saying that he's writing a script about the scorch shot.

I would rather have a counter op weapons academy

While I think that the downsides can be over exaggerated, I don’t agree with the no punish notion, as they said the tighter spread gives you less margin for error, you can’t hit your shots as much, it’s obviously not meant for you to get close, which, if you play stock scout for an extended period of time, is hard to resist the urge to get in, get a kill and get out, and having what is effectively a burst pistol in your primary slot makes it much harder to play aggressively as you can’t get too close, making it much easier for enemies to push into you, so it’s a fine weapon, but not without punishment for playing as the ‘typical scout’

@@sleeby526 I'd still have to disagree that the tighter spread is a punishment. I use the Shortstop regularly now and the tight spread's ability to out-range everything is incredibly powerful. Most classes are specialized around mid-range, and all are capable at it, and the Shortstop allows you to keep that ability, with the additional niche of even longer ranges, and it comes up not just more than you'd expect, but in my experience, almost every interaction is benefitted by the range. The shortstop doesn't punish people by having a tighter spread, it just forgives people less. It's like saying that you shouldn't be punished for missing your shots, and that's what Engineer's in the game for.

Yeah, that's actually a good idea. Maybe we could add the same thing for the force a nature.

this is a good mid range weapon,it wasn't made for close combat (and people just need to ignore the shove ability)