heya, this is my first video after moving to new home so i apologize for the shoddy audio. i didn't want to delay the video just because of the voice recording so i hope it's alright. 1. here's a separate video of the funny headshots :) twitter.com/shoun1c/status/1424421662926286848?s=20 2. note on explosions: the "hitbox" of the explosions are actually perfect spheres, but surprisingly, it's kinda difficult to show that properly with the debug outlines. that visualization only shows up for like 3 seconds of the video so i decided to just let it be. 3. also, continuing the trend from last time, i'll be making a second video - a < zero-dumbing-down > version of this huntsman hit detection explanation, so leave any questions or misconceptions you have and i'll try to answer them :) EDIT: it's out -> kzfaq.info/get/bejne/briad7BnktSwqJc.html 4. ALSO ALSO, to pre-empt questions about it, the red highlights for the "effective head hitbox" is a custom edit we made to the leaked build of tf2 so that's why it's 1. kinda janky and 2. it's unfortunately not available for you guys to use. 5. the hitscan hitbox debug highlighting is a valve command but it's disabled in the current public build of tf2

Every person killed by the huntsman, and every huntsman sniper: I fucking KNEW IT

Hitscan sniping: "Just click on their head above the shoulders!" Huntsman sniping: "Idk, just shoot around them, the arrow'll know where to go"

Oh, that's what Sniper meant when he said "All your heads look bloody twelve feet tall".

I love how the Engineer's effective hitbox map looks vaguely like Texas

No wonder I kept managing to kill soldiers and scouts even without aiming

So when the Scout is looking at the floor it is a free headshot, but a Heavy under normal conditions is mostly a meat sack with no head. This would explain a lot.

Scout: "You'll never hit me! You'll never hit my tiny head!" Source: 2:22

So THAT'S why Huntsman Snipers are always killing Scouts right in their face like it's nothing!

first the iron bomber, and now this the rabbit hole of bounding boxes and hitboxes grows deeper

We all know shounic has triple monitors and a pro gaming chair so he can see and hit them headshots almost all of the time

Finally, an answer to the question: "How is that not DIRECTLY in his GIANT HEAD?"

The arrow knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the arrow from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position where it wasn't, it now is. Consequently, the position where it is, is now the position that it wasn't, and it follows that the position that it was, is now the position that it isn't. In the event that the position that it is in is not the position that it wasn't, the system has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between where the arrow is, and where it wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the game. However, the arrow must also know where it was.

Even armed with this knowledge, I still can't get a headshot with the Huntsman.

The engineer has fucked with the huntsman arrows to test whether or not he could make teleporting bullets. The results have been...inconclusive so far, but the sniper has been making homemade unicorns a lot more, recently.

3:15 Now I don't feel as bad about not being able to head shot revved up heavies with the huntsman.

Have you considered test how the huntsman feels with this disabled? Like in the auto aim video, when you showed how annoying it was to aim projectiles without it. I just wonder if it works this way because it's too frustrating to use the huntsman otherwise.

I'm calling it now, we're gonna see a lot more huntsmen

I knew the lucksman was a bit sus. Interesting that the huntsman can just shoot at the same height and score head shots on all classes.

And I believed aiming above them was balancing out the arrow drop

This explains how I managed to be so good right away with the Huntsman back in the days of the Sniper vs. Spy update... and it's pretty disheartening.

As someone who uses the Huntsman quite a bit I knew it had some shoddy hit detection but gotdamn. Though Heavy having the smallest hitbox does make a lot of sense.

Demoknight: My sword want heads Sniper: Hold my arrows

This explains a lot. Why I've gotten BS headshots and why shots right into a heavies head didn't count. And of course being on the receiving end of such BS

2:22 "You'll never hit me, you'll never hit my tiny head! so tiny, I got a freaking, such a tiny little head!"

Valve might have an ex-Bethesda in their TF2 team because Sniper just works.

this is what we in the business like to call a “bruh moment”

"You should've aimed for the head..." "No, I was using the huntsman and fired slightly to your left"\ "Understandable have a nice day **Dies**"

What I learned from this video: Heavies against regular Snipers: "I'm too weak!" Heavies against Huntsman Snipers: "Unlimited power!"

I think you should have mentioned that they align the boxes like that for performance reasons. For those wondering: this is typically called AABB (Axis-Aligned Bounding Box). If you don’t have to account for any rotation, then things become much easier for the computer to handle.

Scout: “why son’t you come over here and say that to my face tough guy?” Sniper: aims huntsman at my foot at a 45 degree angle “no need to!”

Shounic touched upon it a little at the end when he mentioned that bounding boxes do not rotate with the player but instead they rotate with the orientation of the map, so if you are trying this in a game and find it inconsistent then you’ll know why sometimes aiming in the same place won’t produce the same result, the fact is, the more you learn about bounding boxes the better you will be at sniper and at soldier/demoman

The explains why it seems like the huntsman is so lucky at getting headshots

Now we know why it’s called the “Lucksman”

This gives "All your heads look bloody 12 feet tall!" a whole new meaning

... So, genuinely, this explains why it's so much harder to hit heavy headshots with huntsman than it is to hit them on scouts. With scout, it feels like just shooting at them results in a free headshot, whereas heavies make me work for every bit of damage. And half the time it feels like they just catch arrows.

So you're telling me that to be most effective with the Huntsman, I should tell the entire enemy team there are pennies on the floor?

Well, this explains why I'll miss like 18 shots, then suddenly magically headshot a scout with no effort who was running right up on me. This also explains why it always feels impossible to get headshots on players who are facing AWAY from you, even when their head is in full view. AND this also explains why it feels extremely easy to get headshots on heavies, when you're shooting from almost directly above them.. The arrow really Is magnetizing to his head, when shot from that angle.

I really can't get over how professionally these videos are put together

At least the spaghetti provides entertainment while we forever wait for the update.

Yeah that seems about right

0:03 spy:*sobbing sounds*

That moment when the characters are so iconic all you have to do is look at their hitbox and you know what class it is

what im getting from this is to aim to the left of every characters head

Thats why im "better" with the huntsman then any other rifles

6:05 - In layman's terms, if you wanna outsnipe a sniper bot, you have an easier way using the bow

This, explains so damn much. I had always felt that Scouts seemed to be PARTICULARLY vulnerable to HuntsJank, whereas I almost never dealt with it as a Heavy.

huntsman is the best weapon in game confirmed: it melts robots and giants in mvm and always headshots in normal game

the spy at the start was definitely praying for his life while a sniper rifle was aimed 5 centimeters below his pelvis

"You got a forehead on ya like a coffee table."

that explains... a lot

So it's not luck, it's just source spaghetti? Spaghettiman time! Edit: It seems I caused a minor war in the comments. Pick up a rifle and prepare to fight down there.

3:41 Ah so thats why headshoting a pyro from behind is imposiable

Incredible work on the visualizations, you always make everything really clear!

Something I always felt was off with the Huntsman was how you could trade the air next to someone, see the tracer from the arrow, and still get a HS. I guess I know why now.

lucksman finally explained

2:10 "you'll never hit me! you'll never hit my tiny head!"

Your infographics and animations are honestly some of the best on KZfaq. Love your stuff.

Dude, the editing on these videos is unreal! Literally the best I've seen on KZfaq, bar none

This makes so much sense, I've had so many times where a headshot should clearly hit, but registers and a bodyshot

We need to send this to every TF2 player that has ever uttered the term Lucksman.

I have been looking for a similar video for a very long time, great job 👍

"You'll never hit me! You'll never hit my tiny head!" -The Scout- Heavy Weapons Guy - 2007

Oooh so that's how shooting into a corridor just works most of the time

Holy shit it was a meme but we knew it all along

I love your editing style :)

Now i know why my strategy of "Just shoot in the General direction of the enemy" worked so well lol

Would've been interesting to see what it would look like with scout's melee animation, though, since he holds his hand so high up, it would likely blocknearly all headshots on his right-hand side, right?

Amazing visualization.

You're honestly doing great at this!

I love videos like this, thanks shounic

Man, and here I was thinking I was a huntsman god. :(

As much as this grants many hilarious wierd free kills, i would 100% have the huntsman have a consistant and reliable hitreg model instead of this Every time I use this weapon I feel like a clown Ive always wanted to get good with it but this obviously gets in the way

The production value of your videos always amazes me!

Really nice job on the graphics to demonstrate!

Thank you for teaching me how to abuse the huntsman

Could you imagine if tf2 had Tekken style hitboxes? The bow and arrow probably wouldn't even be used.

The quality and clean visuals are insane. Great job dude.

2:00 so that's what sniper means when he says "all your heads look bloody 12 feet tall"

This is going to completely change how I play with the Huntsman.

So when retreating from a Huntsman sniper, on most classes it is advisable to turn to the right instead of to the left (thus exposing your left side while hiding your easily exploited right side).

I am in awe. This explains so much! Having the right angle on the head was so irregular that of course if felt like RNG

This just explains the confusion of both the huntsman sniper and the invisible spy they accidently headshot

Yeah, I've never managed to headshot a Demo from behind on tr_walkway with the Huntsman and his effective hitbox demonstrates why. I would hope that Valve reconsiders this mechanic to only use the model hitboxes, or alternatively do a second trace for the arrow to check if it hit the head hitbox and otherwise deal bodyshot damage instead of whatever this abomination is. But given that we're in the biggest update drought ever there's a good chance this will never change and that makes me sad

Damn, good to know my huntsman strats were right, but I didn't know how. When I was in close quarters with an enemy I'd always aim like a head above their head, if that makes sense. If you try actually shooting at their head in close quarters, it ALWAYS registers as a bodyshot. Aim a little above, and it's perfect. On that note, revved up heavies are way easier to headshot, so I always wait.

I've been looking for any kind of visual resource that shows the huntsman headshot hitbox, since some(most) of the shots I'd make are very suspect, but to no avail. This really helps a lot!

Flashbacks to that old spray of the stick figure diagram showcasing the Huntsman's hitboxes, but using a train instead of an arrow

Makes sense, without this, the huntsman would be a nightmare to play. I can see how valve playtested it without the bounding box check and they noticed that the huntsman needs a buff to be enjoyable to play. i find the solution very well choosen.

much like real life being short in tf2 gives you a huge disadvantage against taller guys

Blizzard watched this video and takes notes

I figured it was using the collision hitbox rather than the actual player hitbox but I was never certain until now! Also, I didn't know explosives used the collision box as well, good video dude

Is this still relevant today or changed/outdated?

Shounic straight up shows us the red highlight for headshots on each class, now all we have to do is to memorize and abuse.

Your video always look so clean and smooth in editing. What program do you use for this. Is there a website for it?

after 9 years in development, i hope it was worth the wait! thanks and have fun.

Still better then Hanzo's arrows, from overwatch.

i wonder... does the spy disguises affect the hit boxes?

Thank you very much for explaining this.

Nicely made video,kudos*

Somebody is gonna bind this videos URL and spam it everytime they die to a huntsman to prove it "takes no skill".