Everyone should be proud of the level of transparency of all parties involved. Great job Dodge and TFL.

This is why I love TFL. They’re not lying, and let the experts and the brands the space to explain the situation. Very transparent channels.

Much respect to Dodge for replicating Tommy's test and rectifying their issue. Much respect to Tommy for not compromising on his results while 3 FCA ppl stood in the background lol

My respect for dodge just went up, instead of hiding it’s so refreshing to be transparent and actually try to solve the “issue”

It's pretty cool that Dodge went to these lengths to find what happened and not just send a generic email! The moral of the story is that Dodges want you to use more throttle, lol.

I remember seeing the first video and thinking that dodge really dropped the ball, I'm surprised and glad the engineers stepped in to explain the what and why.

This is the kind of relationship we expect and respect between auto-journalists and carmakers.

I am not a Dodge guy, but HUGE kudos to them for taking ownership of this issue and being transparent, and hats off to the TFL team for their reporting. THIS is what the industry needs more of!

Not a Dodge guy, but respect to Dodge for how they handled this situation. Very enjoyable video. Going forward when testing vehicles on the slip test, I wonder if hooking up an OBD-II scanner to the vehicle could be used to monitor the throttle percentage. Thanks for all the great videos Tommy and the TFL team!

This level of transparency is totally unexpected and appreciated. Really cool to see the Lead Dev Eng talk to the issue personally. Just Great!

Kudos to Chrysler for letting someone technical be filmed and explain it. A lot of companies' PR departments would have thought it too risky.

I don’t usually comment on videos, but I give kudos to Dodge for doing this. They explained the cause and proved that their vehicle can do it. Great job TFL team for your professionalism.

Props to dodge for actually dissecting the issue and stepping up. I found this whole situation very interesting and learnt something new!

What an amazing opportunity. It's great to see an auto manufacturer take that responsibility and then bring you in to pass along all the info.

Some manager went crazy and allowed a lot of hours to be burned, just to avoid bad press. Seems like it was in escalation mode for the engineers too. But I love the enthusiasm of the engineers. You can see he is genuinely proud of what he and his team found and loves to teach others. My job is similar and I always try and be as open as possible with our clients (and suppliers) too. But we also need to find of the bigger picture and be careful to not leak anything.

Thank you, Dodge, for not only addressing the issue but also going above and beyond to describe the exact issue and do your own test. I just bought a 300 and this was cool to see from the company.

They need to make an easy reset button, and an override would be good too. I see lots of modern electronic awd and traction control systems completely disable a vehicle that could still get itself out if it just allowed more or less wheel speed.

I have a huge issue with this on a slippery surface like ice going up a hill light throttle is always applied. This could be a huge safety issue. If it turns off all wheel drive you are basically screwed for a lack of a better term. Awesome reporting as usual.

The trouble is people have been taught over years to be very gentle on the throttle in slippery conditions. So people will just drive how they would and then a fault happens. That code set criteria is not good enough.

Maybe I missed it but if the parade of faults displays for an owner, how can they clear them shy of going to a dealership's service department or carrying an OBDII reader and diagnostic phone app? Yes, Dodge did give the reason for the fault but that won't help someone stranded somewhere.

Great Video Tommy! It's always good to hear from the engineers about the systems and why they are designed the way they are. Very interesting that the same circumstance gets the same result in other manufacturers cars. Keep up the good work!

Finally some information out of the locked down silos of car engineers. This was very informative and very useful, and as a software developer I always argue with people saying there are too many electronics on the car. While in reality if you know how they work and what the logic behind them is, it makes sense.

Shout out to the Chrysler employees who had to stand out there and reposition the rollers after every test. We see you!

Thank you, TFL and Dodge. For making this video possible. It was great to hear from the engineers perspective. And I'm so happy that Dodge invited you to come and test out the theories on their testing grounds. Great video. Plus, I also own a white 2023 Dodge Hornet GT with the Track Pack. So I definitely wanted to know more about this situation with the Hornet. I love my Dodge Hornet GT. I do wish it had foglights on it, though.

This was an awesome video! For a major manufacturer to step up and bring the exact vehicle in for testing and bring TFL in to be able to explain the situation and prove it is pretty amazing. Well done to TFL and Stelantis

This is hilarious. That's true engineer right there. I do this everyday. There are lightballs if someone triggers an error you thought no one will ever reach. In my opinion this is a bug they need to fix.

I’m not even gonna lie after seeing that suv fail the first time I immediately crossed it off the list of purchases, the wife was considering one to go with our GWS3…. This video restored some faith back into it

I don’t normally comment on videos but this was very cool of both the Hornet team and TFL. Amazing that the manufacturer actually is interested in these videos and furthermore want to participate in explaining the situation and want to find out what the issue was. This is why I subscribe to all of TFL’s channels and chose my RAV4 TRD off road based on info from the TFL team. Really impressed.

I was very impressed with your rollers test right when you started doing it, and asked myself how come no one else is doing it (at least not publishing the results). the fact that it helped car manufacturer validate their sensor management software just demonstrates how good these test are. Great content.

Really cool video Tommy. I was wondering how this was going to work out. Having Stellantis host you and walk through all the details was both refreshing and insightful. Kudos to them for not only not shying away from the issue, but really taking the time to walk us through all the minutia and allowing us to understand how and why their product performs the way it does. Keep up the slip test videos, they're the best.

The TFL channels are the best channels on KZfaq, period. Everyday there is quality educational content for me to watch on topics that I love! Way to go TFL, what a crew!

One of the best and most informative videos to date. Good on Dodge for taking the time and due diligence to explain and demonstrate

The Coefficient of Static friction is always greater than the kinetic friction (why ABS works better). I can see where someone would try to ease their way out of a three wheel slip situation with light throttle to try and maintain static friction.

Great video. In my opinion one of TFL's best. As an engineer myself, I appreciated having someone who understood engineering and was not a salesman.

Excellent work, Tommy -- and everyone else involved. We all learned from this experience, and we appreciate you "bringing us along."

That was really dope of them to look into the issue you had a followup so thoroughly. I did think it was a wheel speed sensor issue but I had no idea about those specific parameters tripping a fault. Great info to have. Big thanks to TFL and Dodge

This was a very interesting video. I had the same thing happen in my 2022 Kia Sorento X-Line when I was stuck in the snow.

Kudos to Chrysler. A really stand up thing to do bringing TFL out to chat and demonstrate. And Kudos to TFL for demonstrating this feature consistently throughout makes and models. Really good stuff.

Thanks Stalantis for giving us this behind the scenes look and taking provable action. Between Tommy and Brad from TrailRecon, CPG employee's had some fun work days.

Wow. This is really cool, and great journalism. Shout out to you all at TFl & Dodge to set the record straight.

This seems like a perfect result for everyone. I think it's impressive how the Stellantis Engineers made such an effort to explain what was happening and why it happened. I guess this may also influece the future of the TFL slip test proceedures now that you are better informaed about how the systems are designed and what they are expecting. I'm interested to know if the vehicle manual explaines how to best use the traction control in high slip conditions, if it says USE FULL THOTTLE then the TFL Slip test should use what the manual says. If the manual says nothing about this then anything goes.

Ok. Tommy does light throttle with the majority of the vehicles he tests on rollers. I think the reason is that at higher throttle the vehicles begin to slip sideways and come off the rollers. So why hasn’t the issue happen before with all the vehicles he’s tested! The other bs I see is why are only two rear tires on elevated rollers and not the front the way Tommy does it. Dodge is intentionally dipping the car forward to allow more traction on the front wheel/tire making it seem like their car can easily come off the rollers with good traction management 😏

Tommy you do such a great job on these videos you're well prepared and I think you're ready for the next step.

Super cool video. It was great to hear from Dodge to explain the issue in detail

This was great that Chrysler did this. They are like “Look, our car isn’t trash. Others on this too.” To their credit, this great they did this. This made me like this vehicle again.

A couple thoughts on this. Cool seeing dodge repeat a test and then invite you guys out to explain the issue and honestly expose the issue for a huge section of the auto industry that is affects, not just dodge. This also taught me how the awd systems work on these vehicles. At least the computer side of it anyway. More throttle wouldn't necessarily be my first idea, but knowing that can help in situations i may be in in the future. Last point, use the banks data monster gauge that andre uses for the ike. You can use it to view throttle percentage and a lot of other parameters that would be cool to see in these tests. Like it took this vehicle 20% throttle for the traction control to engage and get unstuck. Overall very cool video.

I've put around 1400 miles on my red Hornet GT w/ Track Pack and it's been pretty fun so far for the 2 months I've had it. No real issues at this point, but I did go ahead and get an extended warranty from the dealer (since it's a new model and it's dodge/alfa reliability blah blah blah). There are a couple of quirks like the forward collision sensors disengaging whenever it's raining decently hard. Also, sometimes (~5%) the Uconnect head unit will glitch and be missing some of my customizations but it always returns to my saved configuration the next time I start up the car. Overall, I love driving this car and it does get a fair amount of attention on the road. The red paint with the track pack really pops and people are always trying to get my attention haha. I've had some fun against a variety of cars from a C5 Corvette to a BMW x1. One of my friends jokes that it's a budget Porsche Macan and to be honest it probably is but for roughly half the price and only slightly worse performance (6.1s vs 5.6s 0-60, per MotorTrend), that's actually fine with me. To be clear though, I don't go out of my way to race or anything. I got this car because I just wanted a zippy car with AWD and lots of ground clearance and it's a brand I'm familiar with (previous car, 2000 Dodge Durango w/ 196k miles). Time will tell how the Hornet holds up in northern Indiana snow but I'm confident as long as I don't drive like a dumbass it should be fine.

Yeah, mad respect to Dodge for addressing and explaining it head-on.

This was an informative vid. Perhaps this is the reason that some other manufacturers make their systems so overly aggressive?

Love Dodge's commitment to make it right and the transparency of the channel.

Excellent work by TFL and Dodge both here, love to see it.

Thanks Tommy for getting to the root cause of this issue. You always do such a great job testing vehicles!!

The icing on the cake was demonstrating that this is not just an issue with Dodge. Putting the Mazda CX-5 on the rollers and replicating the faults was the knockout punch. Great video! Everyone here learned something.

This is awesome automotive journalism! Kudos to Stellantis for the awesome transparency and thorough follow-up!

Awesome Video happy Dodge is watching TFL and invited Tommy out to help us understand what happened.

5:47 They both overlooked this warning message and amber dash light. So the Hornet was about to display the same faults, but he gave it more throttle before any more appeared. The message says "Slide distance warning unavailable. Service required" and that amber light is an A with a circle almost all the way around it with an "!" exclamation mark.

I actually had this happen in our Hyundai palisade at one point. Ryan from Driving Sports TV had the same issue when he tested their car.

This is really cool education. Thanks Dodge and Tommy/TFL! As cars get more sophisticated the old techniques no longer apply. Instead of pumping the brakes, with antilock brakes just press, hard. With AWD traction control / anti-slip you don't gently feather the throttle but press it maybe 30%. (And we don't need to manually set spark advance and mixture any more either!)

So the TLDR version is that the Brake System Fault Module & firmware is supplied by a 3rd party vendor to many auto manufacturers. Any vehicle using the same module will throw the same errors on a roller test, but is extremely unlikely in real world use.

Thanks for the follow up Tommy !

Interesting. During our tests we faced the opposite situation a few times. Under light throttle everything was fine, more throttle was causing the errors.

Very interesting, the wheel speed sensor fault trap does explain it. It must have been pure luck that you haven’t triggered this before. I think the slip test is valuable because it takes ground and tyre differences out of the equation, it’s purely looking at AWD and traction control programming differences. I do think you need to get all four wheels to the same level though - maybe a ‘fake’ roller with a concrete slab instead of rollers?

Thanks for another great video. It's great that Dodge came through. I know that in the first video, you were able to clear most of the codes. But what was involved in clearing the rest of them? Does the average owner have access to being able to reset the computer or would that have required a dealer visit?

Amazing follow up! Last video made me not want one but with this upfront transparency I’m kinda turned around on that!

I'm very impressed! I have owned mostly Mopars over many decades, and I've loved almost every one. This reassures me that even though they're called Stellantis now, they employ a whole lot of very competent people who love to do their jobs well. And they love cars, just like we do!

Great video, one question though is if we do get the errors how do we reset it, just a scanner with reset or is this a dealership trip? Also these folks don't seem to have experience in an ice storm where the surface can be this slick.

great followup video!

Love ur vids! Been a fan since 2016!!! U are my first Tt channel , ur legends to me (I’m saying this every vid!)

When I saw the first video my thought was some sort of fault that caused the software to crash. Really great to see all the work they put in to see what was happening.

Great video, but one question: Say you DO trigger this in the real world, what was the solution to clearing the fault?

Great information! One of the best I have seen regarding why it does what it does.

Nice, good to know they cared to investigate this and figure it out. Wonder if they can disable that functionality in offroad modes or smth, would be nice

Props to Chrysler and TFL for a thorough investigation. Interesting and a relief that such an important new vehicle for Chrysler has a healthy stamp of approval.

Would have been nice to show what it takes to reset the system. If a simple power cycle will bring everything back, then probably not a huge deal. But if this requires a trip to a dealer, then I think Houston, we have a problem!

This is investigative journalism and I honestly did not expect it from TFL. Very well done.

Good news! I recently test drove a hornet GT and liked it very much. I got scared off by the fast lane test. Now Im back in the market for one.

I think taking the tires out of the equation shows the quality of the AWD system and programming. Cause otherwise they are telling you that you're locked into buying a specific series/brand of tire and an open spot where they could tell you that you must pay to fix a faulty speed sensor(or something else) because you didn't use their recommended tire

So basically you can get this car to perform well on tests if you construct the tests very carefully to avoid the extremely easy-to-trigger failure.

Kudos to Dodge for doing all this investigation and the TFL team for the trip to MI and demonstration.

Wow! I totally learned something today. Very interesting. Awesome job!

You must have given those guys a rough couple of weeks of sitting in meetings talking about this. It's nice that they responded with real reasons. It makes sense.

Excellent video. I really enjoyed the troubleshooting investigation. To be fair though, I noticed that when Tommy got the Hornet to err, the speed was not 9mph, it was around 6, so what's happening there?

Great info. So it seems, the larger the tire the better performance on the slip test. Less "negative friction ".

It was awesome of Stellantis and their engineers to do this! It was really interesting to learn this. Thanks to everyone involved.

How nice is it to see a manufacturer take the time to explain a fault rather than just brake out the generic excuses book. Really interesting to see the results. My only question is does the system reset after turning the car on and off or once you start driving for a while and the car sees there’s no actual repetitive fault or does it need to be sent to the dealer to be reset? Cheers Pat🇦🇺

Thoroughly enjoyed this slip test follow up! It was so awesome, not only to see that it can pass the slip test, but to also learn the intricacies surrounding the vehicle parameters that caused the fault. Great job to TFL and Stellantis for a breakdown that was well explained!

Great video!!! Love this

Great video. Stellantis stepping up to show you that they take things seriously. Inviting you to come out to their proving grounds and replicating the issue and showing why it happened. They also showed that the same problem will happen with a competitor. Most people who get stuck in snow are putting their foot into it much harder than you were doing your testing. It was good to learn why those dash lights are going to light up like your in Vegas if that situation occurs. Nice going TFL and Chrysler.👍👍

Good on Dodge for the investigation and explanation. The bottom line is that this is still not resolved, and there are a number of split mu / low traction situations that could trigger this - like being partly high centered on snow, sand, or a wet grassy ditch. At the very least it should have to meet the wheel speed delta and

Definitely learned something today. But I wonder if a scared timid driver that gets stuck would be scared to spin wheels and have this situation happen to them and then freak them out.

This is amazing transparency! To show it was operating correctly and similarly to other vehicles in similar circumstances. Really makes me feel better considering this car, or other Stellantis vehicles.

Credit to Tommy for exposing the issue, and kudos to Dodge for being so open & honest about it, and really investigating it . I wish they tried getting off the rollers AFTER the fault occurred, though. I do like that they tested other brands and exposed that the issue exists there, too. So now they just did need to pressure the manufacturer of the ABS module to improve it!

When Tommy made the test he couldn’t fix or reset the car, now they even had a Mazda and they where able to create the same conditions to throw the same issues, how did they reset all the faulty lights? Was it easier in the Mazda than the dodge? Now it will be interesting if Mazda have a saying, additionally it’s weird that from all the different tests on TFL all this years this is the first time this happens.

TFL keeps growing and improving. This access to the people who actually make the systems is just great. I think the Hornet is a nice car.

I found this very clarifying, since I had the same issue on a different car. Basically I was trying to get inside a garage on a beach house *there was sand on the entrance* and three wheels slipped way too much on a low pressure throttle…next thing I know, the ABS, ESP, Handbrake and Check Engine light turned on. Of course the car still run and drives but those lights never went away :(

Awesome video, much respect!!!

Thank you for the follow up. Was hoping you would get to it. In the real world, how do you reset the fault, or are you stuck with a tow to dealer?

The biggest issue I have with this, which is absolute fact, if a vehicle owner encounters this problem when you're driving and you take it to a dealership to get it checked out: the dealership will charge you bonkers amount of money to troubleshoot and diagnose this problem and recommend that you replace lots of different parts and be out thousands of dollars before somebody finally realizes this fault. And you know what? That's just wrong. It happens all the time to people to similar problems and you hear these horror stories. The only way for manufacturers to make this right is to provide dealerships with this information, train them properly on this so that they can quickly diagnose the problem, and not charge people if you, the manufacturer, decides to not address/fix this problem (no idea how you would).

Excellent job on all sides and great follow through with the test. Subaru should learn from this.

that is one of the most informational videos ever on that topic!