"If you're unsure you have already made your decision." Wise words for life, not just driving.

My old instructor used to say "two's a queue three's a danger" he had all those little sayings that just helped me learn the dangers of some situations.

I’m 61 and had lessons and took my test when I was about 20. I lived in a rural area so never had any experience of these kind of roads or junctions. I’m finding it quite scary that I’m only just finding out things like this just because of my curiosity when seeing these videos and clicking to watch. I like to know I’m doing the right thing and staying safe. I just couldn’t see what the problem was in this video as I couldn’t see that the third car was in an area it shouldn’t be as it looked like it had completely passed any lines on the pedestrian crossing. I’ve never heard of the two car rule but will now take note in the future and be more aware of the situation. Thank you.

Those lights need fixing, if there’s enough room for three cars past the white line then there should be time for three cars to turn right

I wasn’t shown how to do this. I failed my test today. 4 minors and 1 serious. The serious is because I went into the box, I was the first car to go in, but I just crossed the little line going into the box opposite (intended for users coming from the other direction turning right.) My examiner had to break for me so I instantly knew I failed. But I kept calm and carried on. I have never done anything like this! Thanks for this video, I will know next time!

I TURN NOW, GOOD LUCK EVERYBODY ELSE!

My instructor never taught me about this, so I found this pretty helpful as a new driver. Thanks 👍

See, I was never taught this! I had no idea about this until now as was never in this situation in a lesson. Passed in June. And still unsure about crossroads!!

It looks like a horrendous set of traffic lights to turn right at. Constant flow of traffic in the opposite direction, no sign of it turning red to allow the 2 cars and the learner car to turn right in safety. The traffic light sequencing needs fettling.

Road infrastructure here has been built in such a way as to allow this situation to arise consistently, and it causes danger. It would be much better to implement a different traffic light timing schedule, so more time exists between the light turning red and the lights on the other side turning green. Inefficient but safe.

This 6 minute video has taught me something which my instructor couldn’t in 40 lessons. Hats off to the instructor

Ashley, I love your teaching style! You're brilliant mate! A real asset to instructors.

Ashley Neal is perfect explaining this... Great instructor... The traffic lights only accommodate two cars when turning right... Why? The traffic flow is so busy hence the two car rule... You can never get this wrong when you apply this rule... Thankyou Saima Sharif for teaching me how to drive and passing my test... Thankyou Ashley Neal for taking the time to explain... 🤗 ❤️😘 X

Thanks for uploading. I have never forgotten this rule from my lessons 20 years ago.

Not quite the same but something my husband's noticed on the approach to a local roundabout. Road markings show us: left lane - left only, middle lane - ahead only, right lane - ahead and right. He's noticed many more people are using the middle lane to turn right! None of the road markings have changed so we reckon it's a case of lemmings but oof, there's going to be an accident at some point!

In Victoria, Australia, we have a few very large intersections/junctions at traffic lights where you can fit 3. However, 2 is certainly a good rule. It's interesting to see how thin the stop lines were with both intersections/junctions in this video, and that there were no lines for the pedestrian crossing. I say to my students, if they can't fit their vehicle in the intersection/junction with their rear tyres past or just on the pedestrian crossing behind them, they will make it through safely. But, that didn't look possible in this video due to how far up you needed to move to be able to proceed through. In Victoria, many will sit with their front tyres on the pedestrian crossing waiting and get stuck when the traffic light goes amber and red. Most of our intersections/junctions where I'm from have a thick stop line, then a pedestrian crossing with lines. Great video, thank you, Ashley.

Ashley has very good explanatory style and style that is great for learners. The general driving model is an exemplar. I wish the Police would view the channel and take appropriate action for bad driving.

Excellent advice. Easy to remember to pass onto learners. Thank you.

I don’t recall Ever being told this, and personally I hang back anyway (mainly cos I’m a trucker and we Love a convoy...😂😂). Have forwarded the link to the people (2 of 3, one no longer with us, not driving related) I have taught. Believe I told them to hang back anyway, but we don’t have junctions that big in my area anyway. Also forwarded the link to the last person I’ll be teaching, hopefully, and recommended your videos. Thank you

Thanks a ton!! Always wondered where to stop ....

Here in the U.S. we don't have as many of these sorts of junctions like you do there in the UK. We tend to favor dedicated lights for turns at intersections and the two things we see a ton of here are people running lights at the intersection just at the yellow light turning red and also in right or left turns where we have multiple turn lanes, the car in the inside lane has to be really careful because so many people in the outside lane start merging into your lane to cause a sideswipe. I tend to hang back a bit and leave myself an escape route to not be their victim. I took a defensive driving course (everyone should take one!) some years back and always leave an escape route and try hard to minimize being in situations where I don't have an escape. I've even pulled over to break out of a no-escape situation just to get out of it and regain some clear space. Really enjoy your channel and I've learned quite a bit watching you - Many thanks and have a great 2019!

Driver has cleared the single ATS stop line with all 4 wheels. The lights were green. When they changed to red she was able to make the turn leagally. NO FTC RED ATS. No FPN OR points. Traffic crossing the junction move on THEIR respective green lights. They can go if the junction is clear NOT aggressively drive at any vehicles still turning turning. If she had been behind the line with 4 or 2 wheels then gone on red....straight offence. FPN issued.

Very good advice as this stop blocking junctions like this.One thing I would do in her position:If I;m already past the stop line I'd wait for another set of green light rather than barging my way through hoping no one from left smash into me ,much safer and you wouldn't block anyone by doing that as you were clear of pedestrian crossing

I distinctly remember holding back behind the stop line because it felt like the right thing to do, and my instructor telling me to drive over it because the lights were green and there was room for a car to fit. I ended up the 4th car in a queue parked over the crossing and absolutely couldn't clear the junction in time. :( Been unsure of the correct thing to do ever since until seeing this video.

Thank you so much for this video it really helped me

Brilliantly explained I always wondered about the cars on the left if they have a green

Very useful. I made this mistake last night. I was the 3rd vehicle and before I could turn the signal turned green for vehicles from right. That guy came racing at me even after knowing that I am turning. Lucky escape. But I should have waited

It’s really sad that 95% of us are only taught the very basics of driving like how to steer and how to change gear, the other very lucky 5% who are taught by driving instructors like Ashley are extremely lucky but I’m very grateful and very thankful that there are videos like this on KZfaq so that I can improve my driving but honestly, I don’t want to drive like a driving instructor or like an advanced driver, I want to drive like me but for me safety is the most important, I don’t want to hurt anyone or run anyone over 🙃

Yet another video in which I have learnt something about my own behaviour. Thanks.

Tbh, I can see people getting annoyed behind you if you do it like that simply because you are stalling the whole right turning queue even though there is enough space to advance. If only 2 cars can go through in each phase, it takes ages if you are the unlucky guy way behind in the queue. I don't think it's expected too much of the other drivers to let the right turners cross safely and don't hammer on their gas as soon as they get green. So, if I had to choose which annoyance is worse, waiting 1 or 2 seconds on my green phase to let right turners leave safely or having to wait additional phases when I have you in front of me, for me it's the latter.

Wait, there is rain in this clip.. Must be years old

Unusual about these two example junctions, they are quite wide, and vehicles turning are meeting near-side to near-side. The consequence is: - 2-car-rule is not always appropriate, if more cars fit into the junction space after the STOP line then just be aware of the dangers that might follow but doing so is not inappropriate. - cars in the crossroads are heading into lanes that are still forward of where you were stopped in the junction space. Just be aware of the extra dangers but as another wrote, when the lights go green for any lane they can only proceed if it is safe to do so, they are guilty party if they collide into side or back of your car by accelerating blindly into a collision with the car in front. Btw, when you decided to stop in the side road dunno why you chose the "wrong" side of the road, and in a junction. From the HC and driver's perspective a few cars earlier on the correct side would have been safer.

This is really helpful. I have no problem with taking up that position 3 rd in line (there is no contravention of the red light signal). But I can see why a less experienced and less confident driver may not do this. It's also helpful to see the responses below from drivers who do not realise the red light applies to the stop line/advanced stop line and not traffic that has entered the junction on a green light.

Interesting situation. I noticed at the first light controlled junction that there was plenty of safe space on the far side of the pedestrian crossing. Your pupil appeared in the clip to be well over the crossing but alongside the right hand kerb so not posing a threat to anyone. Neither drivers or pedestrians. In that situation, providing there is still a light system opposite, I let my learners move over the crossing. If the first car goes and the lights are still green, there is an opportunity to take the turn. If you can show me I am wrong I will be grateful for the correction.

I do the right turn on the junction further back from there (Walton Lane) regularly and sometimes you have to allow yourself to be caught be the light change while waiting to turn. It puts you in the best position when the lights eventually change

Your pupil seems a quick learner and is probably a safe driver at this time. Well taught

This rule is not explicitly taught in California, but I've seen it followed at every single intersection the entire time I lived there

Ashley, I find your videos informative, balanced and fair, but I couldn't believe you instructed a pupil to proceed through a red light, I'm very surprised.

Very helpful video thank you very much 👌❤️

Good point.

I live in a small town, and there's this one road, that you can either go straight a head at, or turn right, and i never actually knew about the 2 car rule. Thinking about it, two cars are the perfect amount for this particular turn. The thing is, sitting back, blocking traffic that want to go straight a head, seriously stresses me lol, anyway of getting over that? :)

The two red learner "L"s is a great idea in your name as a trade mark!

I passed my test in 1994 and I didn't know this, always thought these were weird situations and have winged it for 28yrs, I drive 7.5t lorries most weeks in London too haha

I don't remember being taught this but it's been a while since I took lessons now. I usually hold back at a particular junction I know well because I know the lights are likely to change. But here I might have gone because there looks like more room and I would have been afraid of getting beeped at as the lights looked like they would be green for a time. Before I sound like a bad driver, I don't generally try to force my way into potentially dangerous situations such as joining a queue that would blatantly make me block part of the junction etc.

Too strong a generalisation. There are many junctions where two lanes approach traffic lights and the right lane is only used to turn right, but the road turned into has only single lanes. In those cases, you sometimes have room for only one car turning right into the junction, especially if that car doesn't move forward as much as they might. And of course, at busy times, you then get only one car able to turn per change of lights, which often results in a second car "gambling" the turn on amber. Conversely, some other junctions with traffic lights and a "dedicated" right turn lane turn onto very wide dual carriageways with a wide central reservation at the junction to provide a refuge for pedestrians crossing at that point. In those cases, there is more than enough room for three - or perhaps even four - cars to queue in the junction. There's no problem if the lights are timed to give an overlap on red which allows the cars turning right to clear before the cross traffic can move off. Of course, you have to have local knowledge to know the timings of the lights, and when uncertain, you obviously should hang back. By the way, you are too hard on your pupil - as you can see at 1:24, she is shielded from traffic from the left by the geometry of the junction and from the right by the extended central reservation. If she had felt uncomfortable making the turn - perhaps because the two cars in front were slow to move off or if their turn were delayed by an amber gambler coming from the opposite direction - there would have been no problem with her remaining in that position while her light was red, and waiting until it was green on the next cycle. Of course, not every junction will offer that protection, but that's why driving is about thinking, not learning "rules" by rote.

Thank you for this i was looking for how to turn right at lights and what i should do if stuck in the middle when the lights turn back to red!! Scary stuff when in 'no mans land'.

I don't recall this "rule" when I learnt to drive back in the 1880's. The traffic lights should be timed appropriately for the size of the junction to allow for the maximum number of cars that could be waiting to turn.

Overall, the point was well made, but often it depends on the local arrangement. Traffic signal timing varies, but when you're used to the route, you learn roughly how much time there'll be/ how many things can make the move etc with layouts like the one on display. Sometimes visibility is restricted by large vans/trucks in the opposite direction as well. The other factor is what is ahead of you wanting to turn right - e.g. an HGV or another car etc., when judging whether to stay back behind the signal as it moves off.

There are places where the road markings preclude this. one example is where the road from Eccles/Worseley to Swinton crosses the A580.

Good piece. And the Nissan pick-up & blue hatchback did not seem to have their right turning indicators on? Many UK drivers seem to think, when making a turning using right only or left only lanes, using their indicators is optional?

In this situation the cars are turning right with them passing the oncoming turners passenger side to passenger side. This may well be the system appropriate for this junction. In London I have seen similar dual carriageway cross roads where right turning cars pass the oncoming turners driver side to drivers side. This give a superior view of the oncoming traffic to find a safe gap to turn through. In this alternate system, and it is in the Highway Code the problem is that only a maximum of two cars from one direction and three from the other is possible. Two short queues of three cars in both directions and they are all snookered by the car which joins effectively sixth. The problem really is with the cars starting on Green. They should have a rule that says you cannot start until the junction has been cleared. Just waiting two minutes clears far more traffic than moving forward into a brickweave of vehicles.

The rule used to be that once you had crossed the line, traffic on the crossing road should give way to you until you have completed the turn even if they have a green light. Green doesn't mean "go" it means "proceed with caution".

I never understood why in a lot of countries the (in this case) right turn signal goes to green while the oncoming traffic is still allowed to drive. How and why is this a thing?

Is junction that Queens Drive Liverpool by the Asda? Good vid, teaching my daughter to drive. I'll use this 2 car rule, thank you.

The cars were slow to move with cars coming the other way. Is it safe yourself to carry on? Just about. Bit of a grey area.

If you were in that blue Mitsubishi pick up truck's position (positioned in the intersection already) and there was a red traffic light camera behind you and you cleared when the lights turned red, would you be flashed ?

@Ashley Neal I think I may have been taught something slightly incorrect about turning right. If you're turning right should you only turn right if it's amber? Or should you turn right as soon as it turns red after you've gone through on green? My thoughts are if it's amber someone could be still coming in the opposite direction, so amber is only ok if there is no traffic, but if its red that signals you to stop, you seem to mention it in the video by being in no mans land.

Second time through the junction, can you clear the junction? Yep, I'm behind a taxi (private hire car) he ain't stopping for anyone.

What if you are on a main road and you want to turn right but the turn right lane doesn't have enough space for you to get in are you supposed to just stop and hold up the entire main road?

I passed my test on thrusday but I'm still like to watch these type of videos... it kinda scary driving by myself without my instructor

Hi thanks for your video but one quick question - what happens the light turns to amber and red while I'm still waiting to turn right? Should I still wait there as I maybe stuck in the middle of the road.

If you'd stopped behind the line while the lights were green practically everyone behind you would get annoyed.

It would also be less dangerous if drivers stop on the AMBER light as they should and not commit to the new 2 second rule which is that after the lights have changed to RED against them they still have two seconds to pass the red light or instead that two cars can to go through those RED lights. That is becoming common as is Tailgating on approach to traffic lights. Many is the time that I am slowing from 30 mph or around that speed when driving towards traffic lights that are presently in my favour. I am aware that as time goes by on my approach then there is a greater possibility that the lights will change against me so I am slowing down in order that if the lights change then I am slow enough to stop before I reach them. Unfortunately the car behind me has a much different idea and is is actually speeding up in order to pass through the lights whatever the lights are showing and is now rather too close the rear of my car. Forcing me to consider my own safety which as he is now Tailgating me now, is now not to stop in any circumstances but to carry on or suffer a rear end shunt.. If everyone read the H. C. and really took time to understand it and drive to it then there would not be no ned to chase lights at all and place oneself and others into greater danger.

Wouldn’t be as difficult if uk drivers new fave hobby of going through red lights wasn’t so popular.

The traffic light design doesn't help the situation. In my area most traffic lights have a green filter arrow at the stop line so that drivers wishing to turn right know that the opposing queue of traffic on the other side of the road will be held until just after the filter arrow changes back to amber and red. The filter arrow doesn't absolve you of responsibility to negotiate the junction safely, but it takes a lot of stress out of the situation by reducing the pressure you have to deal with from impatient drivers waiting behind you.

Thanks for this video is bast

I personally would have waited once the lights went red just in front of the crossing. I like the 2 car rule though it’s a good idea. It’s interesting how there’s so many different opinions in what should be fairly black and white. Definitely a grey area.

Ashley - at 2:40 you have the learner pull over; I know it's perfectly legal to park on the right-side of the road, but do you feel it's a _wise_ thing to do, when you then have to cross over oncoming traffic when you start to move off?

Strangely, there appear to be far-side right filter lights, and indeed you can see a sensor in the road at 5:42, that seem to be intended to cater for this exact situation. If only two cars were to enter the junction, the sensor would not be activated.

I think it can be tempting to not want to wait at a second red light or delay other drivers behind.

I don’t really get this, if you’re waiting for the cars coming at you anyway what difference does it make? Seems like if you stopped behind the line and the lights turned red again you’d just have to wait even longer when you pull forward and the lights could turn red when you’re there anyway. Surely if there’s enough room between the car that’s passed the crossing and the crossing itself you’re better to queue behind them?

So many people have no idea how to turn right at traffic lights. My driving instructor never taught me to do so, so I can only assume that most people don't know the two car rule.

Would you get a ticket if there was a traffic camera for going through on red?

So just to clarify, you’re supposed to stay behind the lights just in case it turns red again - if it’s not safe to go?

Good to finally put a face to your voice Ashley!

I wouldn't like this guy as my teacher. He's not chill enough.

They should put a filter arrow on that light

Apparantly theres no such things as a stupid question so here it goes! what are those waiting spaces called?

But for most people green means GO GO GO.... That's why the two cars rule is very important.

Can you describe 2 car rule in simple words? What I understood from video is that there must be 2 car only at a time ahead of white line waiting to turn right in the box junction even if the light is green . The third one should not attempt to move ahead and glue with them . Am I right ??

Think you have to be even more cautious if there is a learner in the junction. I dont enter as a second car if there is a learner in front. You dont know how experienced they are and if they stall you could be in trouble. Additionally, this would also put extra pressure terrestrial pressure on the learner and even on the instructor.

Box junctions are best source of income for councils so be careful not to stop in them. You will be fined even if a little bit of your front or back tyres are on the box junction and even if you are not blocking any traffic. The whole idea for the council is to have the slightest excuse to fine you the extortionate amount of £65. Be careful with box junctions and do not allow councils to rip you off by entering them unintentionally.

I get honked really aggressively and non-stop if I follow the 2 cars rule, is it better for me to go when this happens? I live in an area where people ignore red lights as well, and tend to get quite violent...

i reckon she thought you wanted her to go as they were green and was space... As she was stopping you asked the question which made her try double guess you ;)

Have you had any drivers you've criticized for crap driving get in touch yet? been wondering since the last compilation

Excellent advice. I always wait at the stop line unfortunately I’ve been harassed by the driver behind on many occasions. I think it would have been safer to have stayed where you were when the lights changed to red as traffic was already moving from the left.

Well, I have seen something different to what I would have done. I take your word for it that I am wrong. I am not at all sure that I will change. Just this last week, I was number 2 behind an old bint at a dedicated right lane traffic signal controlled lights with a right filtre arrow. The old biddy wouldn't even move forward onto the junction (and she was the lead car). At times like that, I really do not see why it is illegal to sound the horn

What is this 2 car rule bull. You enter the junction but make sure you don’t block the pedestrian crossing. Otherwise you should wait behind the white line.

01:29 is this a test fail if it happens on test?

why would you have not let the pupil stay where she was until lights were green again? surely you were safer blocking a walkway than going into traffic potentially coming from other directions,curious, not a criticism

Look how long it took the Car in front

If I was there I wouldn't go. You were technically behind a red light at that moment. Would just wait for the green one again.

I dont get this.. In that first clip your right by the light, you see it go red and encourage your student to go.. For me personally when the light went red i would have stayed put.. Seems a thin line there for running a red light if theres a copper around you.

If you enter the junction on green then it's your junction for as long as you need. Cars who get a green light after you do not have right of way over you.

did you tell your learner driver to jump the red light 1.54 you can clearly see the light change to red

you were behind the island and could see the lights; I know you were over a crossing but surely safer to sit there. Inconvenient for pedestrians but safer all round.

We could do with a whole team of government appointed Ashley’s out there teaching,, then perhaps there wouldn’t be so many arses knocking about. Bumbling into trouble and blaming the other motorist as is the common outcome.. 😁

Absolutely no driver adheres to this rule!

Is this an RTA rule?

I had someone do this to me today at a crossroad near my house, i knew i wasnt going to go because the lights change so fast and he started honking at me and even rolled his window down. Told him to piss off though because the lights were red and im not that stupid to go on a red light. Stupid BMW prick