Let me know if you've ever felt slightly cheated by the limited screenspace from a 2D Sonic game! If I had a nickel for every time I ran into an enemy hiding slightly off screen, I think I'd be rich. Also, huge thank you to Magic Spoon for making videos like this possible! Use my code CHAOMIX5 to get $5 off your delicious, healthy Magic Spoon cereal by clicking this link: magicspoon.thld.co/chaomix5_0722

“Blue rat go fast” Most inspirational quote ever.

Sonic CD had its own solution to this. When you're at full speed, the camera would pull back from Sonic to give you more of the view ahead.

Remember the extended camera from the original Mega CD version of Sonic CD? Yeah, that immediately fixed the vast majority of the visibility problem. Why the Retro Engine doesn't have this unless you turn on the CD spindash is beyond me.

A possible solution is not having the screen centered on Sonic and instead have the screen shifted to the right so Sonic is always on the far left and when Sonic goes backwards then shift the screen so he is on the far right.

This is the exact reason why outside of 3K, Mania, and CD, I don’t go back to the 2D titles too often. Sonic 2, especially, is a major offender of this, Dimps games excluded. It’s part of why I’d love to see the Advance games get the widescreen treatment. I just don’t enjoy being forced to memorizing everything in a game in order to have a good time.

Gonna be honest, at first I was like "this seems pretty small dude". But then I thought back to times a spring shot me backwards or I fell off the top path because I didn't make a split second decision or the countless time I got blindsided by an enemy. I don't think I have as big a problem with this personally but I'm all for improvent, no matter how small.

kinda surprised you didn’t bring up that in sonic CD the camera moves a bit to the right when you reach top speed, allowing you to have more time to react to obstacles

We really need a new modern 2D title that takes advantage of Sonic’s new moves and really uses widescreen as an advantage because that extra second of timing makes a monumental difference at such blasting speeds

I think this is where the “sonic was ever good” argument has come from. Also this is why I think sonic freedom will be the most promising 2d sonic game ever. The amount of moves you can perform as well as the space you can see at least in the demo is amazing. I can not wait for the full release of that game

there are cheap badnik placements in the 2d games but for me I just end up rolling after picking up major speed because it's the best option when going as fast as possible. When the stage slows you down by a block, I feel that's intentional because of an upcoming platforming section or a section with a ton of badniks.

At this point, I don't really feel that way, but that's because I've played these games over and over again. From the eyes of a newcomer, Sonic would seem a tad unfair.

That was always my main issue with the classics, and your solution is pretty good, however level design also plays a gigantic role, Mania divides platforming and speeding sections without throwing an insta kill or enemy at you, generally you enter a more enclosed area or some slope throws you upwards and stops your horizontal momentum. Also Mania is kind of responsible for me understanding and liking the 2D playstyle bc of this.

Honestly I'd probably handle this the same way Sonic CD did, just put Sonic to the left of the screen when he's running to the right, and vice versa. That way, you have the extra space when you need it most.

I was WAITING for someone to finally make a whole video about this topic! Always scratching my head at how rarely people talk about just zooming the camera out far enough to make reactions feasible.

The point where I asked "What am I doing with my life?" was Metropolis Zone in Sonic 2, honestly.

Another issue with screen change us how it affects the perception of speed in the game. The more you zoom the screen out, the less fast Sonic feels and vice versa. Same with the screen panning backwards like in Sonic CD. Its a part if the equation i seldom see anyone mention.

Generations kind of dances around this issue by having the camera be way more dynamic and/or zoom out whenever a speed segment is approaching. It'll often be set to a 3/4 view of Sonic's back so you can get an idea of what's in front of you. Also Sonic 3 AIR has an option to automatically slide the camera so that Sonic is on the right side of the screen whenever you charge a spindash.

A recent fan game (Sonic and the Fallen Star) has largely fixed a lot of what you talked about here. Not by zooming out or anything, but by adjusting the level design so that speedy parts and platforming parts smoothly transition into one another. And almost no enemies that are just walking around in your path when you're supposed to be running

Another solution would be to, as you pick up speed, slowly move the camera forward relative to sonic (i.e. if you are running to the right, sonic would be on the far left side of the screen instead of the middle). This would make it so that you can still have the detail from having a zoomed in camera, while also giving extra time to see upcoming obstacles because your view is literally farther ahead than it would normally be. This is a technique used (albeit to less of an extreme) in super mario world and many other 2D platformers, and it frustrates and confuses me why sonic has rarely done this. The only times i think this method was used in sonic were in rush and rush adventure. Ideally, the best solution would be a mix of your dynamically zooming camera idea with a dynamically panning camera.

So that's what it is... I've been trying to figure out why I love playing 3D Sonic games more than 2D Sonic games, and it's because of the camera. I love being able to see what's ahead. I also think that's why I love when 2D Sonic games gets the wide screen support because then I had an easier time avoiding enemies, and I didn't realize just how much camera placement hugely influence the way I play the game. Even when I memorize the obstacles in 2D Sonic games, sometimes the enemies still jump scares me lol. Sonic Mania is my favorite recent 2D Sonic game not just because of 60FPS (smooth gameplay made it more easier to control IMO compared to older 2D Sonic games with choppy framerates), but also that I had an easier time avoiding enemies as well. It also made it my favorite Switch game.

This here is definitely part of why I generally prefer the 3D games and find them more replayable. I like seeing stuff ahead of me, don’t want to make a commitment to memorizing level layouts, and don’t have the best reaction time. I love this series, though, so I do hope it’s something fixed in future 2D titles

I can agree with a lot of this but I don't think it's quite as bad as this video makes it out to be, especially given that you left out the important 4th option: A.B.R., Always Be Rolling. If you're not rolling, you're gonna get hit by a lot of badniks. Also I feel like memorizing the level layouts is part of the appeal of these games, the speed is the reward for good performance, I'm not really a fan of when speed is just a given. That being said, I do think the dynamic camera zooming out and pulling ahead is a pretty elegant solution... but I also believe enemy placement should be taken into consideration. There are a few enemies in Sonic that are able to knock Sonic out of Ball mode that really should only appear in locations where Sonic must go slow... the entirety of the badniks in Metropolis Zone for instance, or those rotten bastards in the later levels of Sonic Advance that are only vulnerable for a brief few seconds. The Advance games in particular have very questionable enemy placement choices.

What made the 3d games like sonic adventure 2 fun was to keep getting better so you could get the best ranks but in the 2d games it feels like how you get better is with memorization and not so much with skill.

I think that problem also explains why I tend to be better at the 3D Sonic games than 2D. Being able to see ahead is so vital for planning out a combination of inputs especially in the boost games. In the 2D games, I'm always hitting a backwards spring, flying into enemies, or getting crushed immediately. Hopefully, Sega and Sonic Team will implement a dynamic camera and more optimized screen real estate in future 2D Sonic games as suggested in the video.

I like the idea of the camera shifting depending on the direction Sonic is facing and the speed he's going. A lot of the reason that the 2D Sonic games have so little visibility is because Sonic is smack dab in the middle of the screen. If Sonic is offset, then you don't even have to zoom the camera too far out to increase the visibility and decrease the likelihood of unforeseen damage/death.

Screen crunch has always been the biggest problem holding 2D sonic back. The changes you bring up would go a long way in alleviating this issue. The likes of Colors DS, Freedom Planet, and to a lesser extent Mania shows how effective this can be. Obviously you can't get rid of it in it's entirety without slowing things down, but a change like this would go a long way improving these games.

As like everyone knows, sonic had a rough transition to 2D Sonic games were so much better when they were 1D man...

You've missed one more solution, albeit a strange one: make the d*ck moves not feel like d*ck moves without changing the core level design. When you run into a d*ck move, it sucks because you lose rings, momentum, time getting back to where you were, your path in the level, or worst case scenario a life (furthermore the progress since the last checkpoint). I think the key is to pick and choose which of these apply. For example, when a surprise spring send you into spikes, you lose time, momentum, rings, and risk dying. Remove the spikes and you only lose time and momentum. This is still a punishment, and you'd try to avoid if everytime. Unless you'd die, it's barely any different, but it simply feels like less of a d*ck move. A secret strategy would be to move the same spikes somewhere that you'd likely hit from the loss of momentum, in which case the time separation and sheer chance that it still could have been avoided makes it feel less related to the spring and more like your fault. Imo, entire levels can be reworked around this philosophy to great effect when risking paths, but here I advocate for micro implementation at the bare minimum. The main goal should be to prevent the player from be overly cautious. The strange part of this solution is that there's even more subtle ways to minimize the frustration, such as leaving almost the entire game in tact and changing only the sound design. Change the harsh losing-rings sound to something less harsh, maybe make it a sound effect that fits in with the bgm. Get rid of the animation of rings flying everywhere and find more comforting ways to present ring loss and recollection. A very subtle gameplay change is to not take away control from the player when they take damage or to increase invincibility frames. The hardest changes would be those to the games' core mechanics, most obviously a change to the lives and rings system as a whole, or other things like maintaining momentum when running into enemies, new categories of taking damage, or inventing new moves with their own obstacle defying traits, such as how rolling does damage while maintaining speed. These are a lot harder to design and can normally only be done at the design stage of a game. I also think such large changes to a preexisting game should always be optional.

I think they should just have the screen move over to the right more when he is moving at a certain speed. So sonic is closer to the far left side of the screen letting you see things ahead of time.

My solution would be to move the camera forward when Sonic is gaining max speed. But not too much forward where you can't see Sonic, I'd say just forward enough where sonic is *almost* touching the left border of the screen.

Usually, in the og 2D Sonic games (1, 2, CD, 3 & Knuckles), obstacles are put before platforming sections INTENTIONALLY to STOP you from falling off to your death if you're going too fast, in the very sections you showed in the video. This is the same reason why, in traffic management, speed bumps or humps are put on roads to force you to slow down. On the other hand, enemies are put at the end of slopes on later levels because you're expected to have learned to roll on slopes by that point in the games - like how enemies are put on slopes in Mario games, in which you're expected to slide down - or, usually, they can also come as "invincibility sections": sections made intentionally to justify the invincibility power up hidden nearby, which enables you to speed through them recklessly. These are just common, run-of-the-mill game design techniques used to: protect you from yourself, skill-check and make you feel powerful, respectively. Also, enemies attacking you from off-screen only happens in the Retro Engine games (the worst offender being the S3K port in Origins), as these were made by (incorrect) observations alone, rather than porting their actual behaviors from the actual source disassemblies; in the original games, enemies are only activated when you're close to them: aka no projectiles from off-screen and no Mantis hitbox on its blades until it actually throws them.

I admit that "remember the level layout" is a poor argument people use when defending the level design in the classics. However, I would argue that the reason people keep running into enemies is not because of the camera or lack of memorization but because of failure to see patterns. All the levels in the classic games have recurring patterns in terms of enemy placement. How you get good and breeze through a level without having to replay the game for the upteenth time is to familiarize yourself with these patterns. Trust me, I know. This is coming from someone who's played these games his entire life and knows these games from the back of their minds. Though I personally disagree, this was an informative video and you layed your thoughts down in a well thought out and comprehensive matter. I just wanted to state to where even with the stuff you said in the video, the "zoomed in camera and bullshit enemy placement" in reviews is still more of something that comes from personal preference rather than be a fault of the game.

2D Sonic games are so classic and they are fantastic to play when I was a kid! 💙✨

My big issue with classic sonic, in general is that sega does not want to give him any personality or a voice for that matter. I read the idw classic sonic stories, and I loved them and wish they would do that instead of making him silent. And the sad thing is this is coming from a guy who grew up watching aosth on vhs when i was little and KZfaq later on in my life, With those old toon Disney rips. (I’m a 2000s kid I never experienced watching aosth on regular tv.) with classic sonic having a voice and personality.

Gotta go fast was never a phrase for the series until Sonic X.... which is... about 2005 ish... those original games were deginitely reaction tests more than driving simulators. And yes, wide-screen definitely helps

Freedom planet 2 has a great solution to the camera by having it zoom far out when reaching fast speeds. I honestly hope 2D Sonic incorporates this as well

The original Sonic games were meant to be replayed over and over. With the replays you get better. I see what you’re saying but I just can’t say that’s been a huge flaw for me. Gotta stay up on those top routes, chao. And some levels you just won’t be able to barrel through.

The original release of Sonic CD fixed this issue by moving the screen ahead of you when running at full speed. Other Classic Sonic games just didn't do this and needed the widescreen remasters to fix the visibility.

To me, that's the thing about 2D Sonic. You have to try to be fast, while also trying to watch out for hazards. And replayability is the name of the game. Plus, it's really easy to obtain rings, and grab them when you lose them. Maybe that's just me, but man, I really like these games, and replaying is what they're known for.

the speed is earned. if you get hit often maybe just slow down a little. I don't think it's a bad design at all. that's what separates sonic games from other platformers.

I feel like if we want to see more 2d games they should be like a recently released fan game, Sonic and the fallen star. It had cutscenes, New ability's and level design that made me want to go back and retry it as a different character to see what I missed. Anytime I died in that game it didn't feel like BS it felt like it was from my own doing. Also another issue is that SEGA needs to let headcanon or the sonic mania devs to do what they want. They seem like they really want to make an original classic sonic game but sega has only made them make re releases or just games with reused levels. SEGA needs to get teams other then sonic team to make side games and stuff. I mean classic games aren't really hard to make compared to 3d games as it would only take 1 to 2 years to make them. SEGA also has to stop putting these teams under strict limits that prevent them from creating good story's or games.

I like how the Rivals games did 2D. Seeing what's ahead of you.

I agree with you its annoying to be so fast and run in to something like the controls don't do enough

chaomix: the 2D sonic problem Enders: It exists?

I think the sonic games should take a page from games like Freedom Planet or Spark the Electric Jester. Both games features enemies that don't do contact damage but instead damage by attacking. And any offscreen dangers such as cannons or lasers feature a warning symbol if the danger isn't on your screen yet. Gives you a lot of time to react to something you can't even see yet.

Thanks for the birthday gift Chaonix, i also have this problem too

Ive been trying to come up with my own solution to this problem and the best idea I have so far is having ques within the level that telegraphs what obstacle is coming up, like a lil triangle symbol on the ground that means a badnik is up ahead

An idea I had was to take the route that NSMBDS took by having the left & right bumpers being able to move the camera at the desired direction, but I do like the solutions given here.

My neighbors just witnessed me jumping in excitement of a new chaomix video

While the small screen space have always been a known issue in 2D Sonic I think its good to point out that the reason people dont always talk about it is because even with this flaw the game still manages to offer more on replays and manages to stay exciting whenever you play them. At least for me personaly. Like, I love 3D Sonic as much as everyone else and I did returned to them more then once but I personaly don't return to those games AS much ( with the exception of Adventure 1/2) because of their overall polish in terms of level design and game mechanics and the verity they bring the more you play the game. Interesting shit keeps happening to me on replays on these games for me to this day and I been playing them for probably like 2, decades now. Also while the reaction time they give is small and does make the player coward from going fast I dont think thats all entirely on the camera because I found that you can learn to react to these obstacles even without memorizing the levels if you can pay attention enough so when the player learns to feel more comfortable with Sonic's speed, jump and ESPECIALLY the roll the more the player learns how to keep the flow going regardless weather he sees it coming or not. The level design itself is sometimes built in a way to give the player reaction time. However it is mot always the rule and Im not gonna lie, there ARE certain level design moments in those games that are truly cheap and cross the line. like some of the ones pointed in your video which is why I was a bit surprised you rejected the idea of changing the level design so strongly. I think patching some of the issues with the level design to give the player more reaction time by maybe moving the obstacles around a bit can be a very nice and acceptable simple way to deal with it. Sonic 3 air does it a bit and I think it works nicely. Heck, when you think about it, it could be as if not more effective then just Zooming out the camera. Tho having a dynamic Zooming camera like you pointed out could be just as good of a solution. The reason im not TOO big on the idea of zooming the camera out is because like you pointed out it BARELY works. Trying to balance the camera in a way to accommodate to the upcoming obstacles without sacrificing the visible details on the environment is kind of hard, but imo more importantly then that is the fact that part of why the classic games FEEL fast is because Sonic's speed makes the screen scroll really fast and makes everything pass by in a second. When you Zoom out and keep Sonic's max speed the same (as you should) the scrolling speed naturally decreases which in turn results in a less thrilling sense of speed. Heck the spindash literally takes advantage of scrolling for a good effect by forcing the camera to stay for a few frames before following Sonic which does give a nice Blast Off kind of feeling. So yeah, I just personaly believe this whole problem opens up a big can of worms the more you think or temper with it and it goes a little deeper then just simply Zooming out for extra foresight. Anyways I rambled way to long on this one comment so thanks whoever is brave enough to read this through.

I present you... THE EXTENDED CAMERA In the fanmade remake of Sonic 3, Angel Island Revisited, you can toggle the Extended Camera, when Sonic goes fast, the camera will move to the Right, making it so you can see what's going on, combined with the Widescreen resolution, it's a pretty good solution to this problem.

Honestly? I disagree. Sure, those surprising bits are annoying, but that’s all they really are. With the exception of the Advance games where there’s one every two seconds, they definitely aren’t 2D Sonic’s “biggest issue.” It, like most things in Sonic, is a balancing act. You want some to keep the players on their toes, but not so many that it becomes unplayable like in, say, Sonic Advance 3. And yes, I do think that Sonic CAN go slow in 2D sometimes. Something one of my friends once pointed out is that, in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, the stages actually separate speedy bits and platformy bits, often transitioning between them by way of a spring or a steep slope that sends you flying in the air. It avoids the Sonic Advance problem where speed and platforming are just meshed together for no reason and, as a result, Sonic 3 arguably has the least blindsides of any Sonic game. I dunno, I just feel like this is kinda making a mountain out of a molehill. There are bigger things to pick apart in these games besides the occasional spring trap or weird enemy placement.

I mean, Sonic CD had the extended camera, maybe it'd be best to combine that with the Widescreen of the more recent games/rereleases.

I absolutely agree with this because every time I am going fast and having fun untill some obstacle or some enemy has to stop me from having a funky time. I don’t wanna go slow in a *SONIC GAME* I WANNA GO FAST MAN!

The original Sonic CD did tried to do something that kinda helped to see infront of you: instead of zooming out the camera and losing detail, the camera pans forwards/backwards acording to Sonic's speed and direction he's going, that way you can see what is infront of the character while running

Fun fact sonic is about balancing your speed and your platform but not press right for 24 hours if you know you need to be always careful and in sonic 3 and knuckles the insta shield the best move

One solution would be to make the camera focus slightly ahead of Sonic, so he's more on the left side than at the center. This would show more of the right sight of the screen. You really don't need half of the screen to show the left side, since you are actively moving away from there. This combines really well with the zoomed out camera. The camera can shift in moments where you climb up/down to the center, and on the right as sonic moves left.

Honestly, yeah, this is something I find really find drags the fun factor down quite a bit in some of the older sonics. Unless you already know the level ahead of time, you're gonna get blindsided a lot.

10:04 CORRECTION-240x160 pixels, it's a perfect 3:2 aspect ratio... Pretty problematic considering DVDs only use that aspect ratio for re-stretching (anamorphic) purposes. GBA converted movies would have to be 240x135 (if odd numbers are even allowed), and that's just 1.85 movies. most movies are even wider, smaller on an already small screen, good thing the only thing I mastered is the 2004 Spongebob movie, that took 200+MB video/117MB 8 bit stereo (SRS Circle Surround) on a single 1GB CF card.

Well a option for 2 and 3 is just get the chaos emerald asap and use super.

iirc, Sonic CD would slightly pan the camera to whatever way you were facing, which was a lifesaver

actually i think this is actually a mecanic from the game for you to learn the level design and thats why rings give you one extra hit and you can recover them easily,the point is that you have to learn the level design to go fast in the level and rings make you invincible to a lot of the traps and enemies so by trial and error you can learn the level design and because of that you beat the level faster the next time you play,actually rings were made for that exact same reason juji naka made the rings so they give you a extra hit because when employes were testing the game they were triyng to go fast without practice and because of that rings give you health

4:40 - 5:29 I feel like that's all part of Sonic's learning curve. In Sonic 1, GHZ Act 1, the game teaches the player just how much dopamine you feel from earning speed. The next two acts, however, basically say, "Okay, you can't *just* hold right the whole game." Through the level design, I learned to always roll into a ball when going fast in an attempt to barrel through any upcoming threats. This won't work all the time, of course, but I find that it helps a ton when entering a new stage. 5:36 - 5:50 While running into objects or enemies that stop you in your tracks is VERY annoying (don't get me wrong), I think of it as a fool-me-once-fool-me-twice situation. After you've run into said obstacle, you can avoid them accordingly next time and almost always keep your momentum. Players are rewarded for learning which enemies are where and how to dodge them, which immensely increases replay value. This also goes for 7:50 - 7:59. It's completely your own fault if you know what's coming and how to avoid it, but refuse to do so. I get that this was (hopefully) exaggerated in order to get the point across, but it's important to make that distinction regardless. Again, replaying levels and learning their designs over time is rewarded with the ability to maintain your speed. But take all of that with a grain of salt, since I'm no game developer. I'm just some girl who's really passionate about the classic games.

Damn, I think you hit the nail on the head. While I like the 2D games, I prefer 3D a lot more, and now I think I know why

On one hand, the camera shifting slightly ahead of sonic to give more view of what's ahead at faster speeds would be nice for gameplay. One the other, the dopamine from finding a spot where you go so fast that Sonic outruns the camera feels so good.

I never understood why people prefer 2D Sonic. They're just as glitchy as the 3D games (Sonic 1 literrally has a glitch on it's title screen, what a good start for the series...). I have replayed the Genesis games recently and had little to no fun at all. People point out the weird physics and clipping through the ground in the 3D games but, that ALSO happens a LOT in the OG games. The difference in the 3D games, besides being infinitely more immersive and engaging, is that at least you can fricking see what's ahead of you! The Genesis games were marketed as super fast but really, you'll go at a snail pace most of the time because you cannot see what's coming and there are traps, holes and enemies EVERYWHERE. That's also not counting all the times you're underwater going even slower or even when you're just straight up standing still waiting for a platform to move or a bubble to appear. I'll never understand the appeal of 2D Sonic. People call it fast but you can go faster in any of the NES 2D Mario games. People will take for granted anything marketing will throw at them, I swear.

Sonic CD does this thing where the camera moves more in front of sonic while he runs which is cool. I was actually reminded of freedom planet 2 when you were talking about the idea of a dynamic camera that moves. That game backs up the camera and shows more of the level when its necessary. Its suggested but its optional, and you can zoom out the camera manually in the settings if you want. Freedom planet also does this thing with its enemies where you don’t get hit by them unless they actually attack you. Now I know this isn’t necessarily a solution because 2D Sonic has never really worked like that before so the change would be a little weird. But its just a general fix that indie speed based platformers do now

Hopefully the rumored 2D boost game coming next year is either Sonic Advance 4 or Sonic Rush 3. I love 2D Sonic!

Yep, I love these games, but there are so many cheap shots in them, it's the reason why I play the 3D games more, because atleast I can see were I'm going.

If you drew that thumbnail thats hella impressive

making the cameraman run faster than sonic a.k.a everytime sonic runs at max speed the camera locks itself looking more foward could solve this issue

What about enemy placement? I feel like rethinking where to place them could go a long way

I love how the the thumbnail not only has toro sonic but it also has that blurry old 90s effect

Dimps already found the answer in Colors DS: Just make better level design. Tho there are fangames that do the shifting camera thing, which is cool.

Bruh idk why this vid made me so happy i love your vids but this one got me. I am making my own 2.5D sonic fangame in littlebigplanet3 and the first thing i did was make a dynamic camera that did exactly what you said in the vid. Its not finished i still gotta get the dynamic speed stuff and running up walls done and maybe a few tweaks to the camera but this vid made me so happy i guess its cause i know im doing something right i guess idk it was kinda a no brainer when starting the project so idk. Anyways great vid as always (always love the thumbnail art) and ye have a good one!

I can't believe you zoomed out the membership screen

I think a good idea would be to have "warning signs" show up on the UI pointing to hazards off screen, like how generations has floating signs warning you of a bottomless pit, or the Onett stage in Smash Bros. warning you of a car coming to ram you. You could definitely tweak that system to activate earlier at different speeds and prioritize certain hazards over others if there are multiple.

My Solution for the new 2D games: Widescreen (since nowdays we can have that) Extended Camera (that camera present in the SEGA CD version of Sonic CD, that was removed from the 2011 port for some reason, where your camera shifts for the direction you're running), Camera has a fixed position a bit far away from the character and the scenario (in sprite games), just like in Advance Trillogy and Rush Trillogy, and Dynamic Camera for 2.5D/Pre Rendered Model games, it zooms out when you are fast, and it goes back to the original position when you slow down, I liked that idea

After seeing the crash into object part, I feel like I figured it all out. It's not even a problem with 2d specifically; If you go fast, you can't appreciate the view and so you crash to slow you down. Sonic games are self defeating so it makes them hard to develop not unlike chase sequences in horror games as Markiplier would put it.

I always loved to replay the 2D games (and still do), I don’t see running into things as an issue or flaw, I always had time to react (as I did see them) and even when I did run into something the ring system made this a non-issue, do it’s not a big deal and doesn’t ruin the enjoyment. Plus replaying the level, anything you might have run into you’re aware of now (however I don’t think that memorization is what the game is about or that it’s required). They are fair enough challenges. I get the point, but it’s not really a big issue (if it’s even an issue at all). It definitely doesn’t keep me from going fast and didn’t find it annoying. Also playing versions with 16:9 screen size helps, but isn’t required

Press down. Seriously though, I learned to always be rolling while moving fast in these games and rarely ever have the issue of running into enemies

I think a great solution worth trying is 'warning signs/icons' that become bigger as you approach an enemy, a rock/obstacle/wall, or a speed bump. (red exclamation point for enemy, gray question mark or 'x' for obstacle, and blue question mark for speed bump). these would hang in the edge of the screen, and would be located higher or lower depending on the "y" axis/position of the thing it's signaling. like I said, they would get bigger, it would start as a tiny red, gray, or blue dot, and then increase as you get closer, giving you a few seconds to react, this would make it so you have to make decisions on the fly based on a vague idea of what's coming, instead of a dense fog, you can somewhat see what's coming but never know for sure once you are close enough, this means new players can feel more in control over their decisions/actions, and learning a level also becomes easier as the signs help you keep track of things. You could modify this further, but I truly think this would work great. similar to some racing games and other types of games that telegraph incoming danger outside of the what's visible on screen. (a mother idea I had was a more reactionary 'dodge' technique, something you can quickly hit in response, but that would definitely impact the core gameplay, the 'corner icon' idea seems like the least drastic and most balanced, probably paired with an increase in screen visibility as already suggested.)

"bottomless pits" Lookin at you, *DIMPS*

I also find myself going back to the 3D games more and have never really understood why but this video certainly acted as a bit of an epiphany for me! I absolutely do the thing you mentioned where I’ll deliberately slow down and play kinda cautiously because muscle memory and earlier play throughs have taught me that speed = getting hit. I’ve just never clocked that that’s exactly what’s putting me off repeat playthroughs. Very well illustrated point here!

Also, this something that CD did, but moving the camera a bit forwards so as to keep sonic near the left of the screen allows you to see better even if the sprites aren't rezised.

I played all the genisis classics religiously for more than a decade, countless 100% playthroughs and knowledge of the stage ...And I still gets hit by offscreen stuff

I feel like the best way to fix this is... *REMOVE THE THINGS THAT ARE ANNOYING*

The thing about 2D sonic is that speed SHOULD be taken as a reward. In levels like chemical plant, it’s gets really speedy but sonic is still a platformer, which is why things like the famous chemical plant water comes from. Also in aquatic ruin, if you take the higher path, it’s harder, but you can skip the water parts and is hella speedy.

You made the junio sonic art?

Basically speed is a reward if you know what you are doing

I think the biggest problem is just that Sonic is in the center of the screen rather than to one side, I really don’t know why they didn’t do that it’s such an easy fix and combined with 16:9 pretty much fixes the problem in my eyes

Now that you said, the original Sonic Cd had this thing to move the camera forward when running. Wonder why they didn't keep it 🤔

this is why i always go into a roll whenever im controlling sonic at high speeds

i have my own idea to fix this problem (idk if its a good one tho) what if there was a minimap in the corner of the screen that shows the level and where enemies and spikes are placed? the groud would be white while enemies and spikes would be highlighted in red. the map would be much more zoomed out than the screen itself allowing for less screw ups and even planning ahead.

Am I the only one who's interested on how he drew the thumbnail

i think this explains why I recently struggled on my revisit to the 2D games as much as I love them you really hit the nail on the head with ur points great stuff all around

I understand the argument but imo this comes from a misunderstanding of the classics appeal. The point of these games is that consistent speed is the reward for memorizing the level and mastering the physics, it’s not supposed to be a given like many 3D games. Getting hit by an unexpected obstacle is (for the most part) a non-issue thanks to the ring system being super forgiving. It becomes a problem when there’s too many unreactable obstacles or instant deaths like bottomless pits. This issue only exists with poor level design, it’s not inherent to the camera.

As soon as you mentioned that it conditions players to go slower I remembered my time playing these games as a kid and realised that's entirely how I played them. In fact that's probably why I used to prefer playing as Knuckles or Tails, and only ever played Sonic if I had to - playing the game slower and with more control over the obstacles ahead just was a more enjoyable experience than trying to go as fast as possible.

this is kinda off topic, but classic sonic wasn't always gonna have no voice in generations. originally (at least, I think) they were gonna have jaleen white voice classic sonic again (which would've been amazing) but they couldn't get them back so they had to settle for no voice.