Love this!

Lol

Ha ha

Wrong view of calvinism

😂

Show Cat yup!

Impressive story, I like how you were able to break that down to your group

Well said!

*Arminians. Armenians come from Armenia.

It's all about Jesus Christ. His gift of salvation was in His Blood. In his Blood was his DN@. In His DN@ was His Father's SEED. The Seed was His Name, His Spirit & all the attributes of God. The Seed was the currency with which He purchased the souls of Adam's descendants & The Seed was the weapon with which He crushed the Serpent's kingdom (dominion). While bleeding to death on the cross, He SOWED His Father's SEED into the EARTH (we are made from Dust of the Earth). Downloading His DN@ Code = Data into our DN@. Ratifying God's Covenant with Abraham. To bless many nations thru Abraham's Seed. FAITH activates God's SEED (God Gene), establishing His Kingdom within us. But before the Seed can take Root (of Judah), the Soil must be broken & circumcised (heart). Therefore REPENT & Believe The Gospel. So that God's Kingdom may grow & bear Fruit within you (head to toe = DN@). It's a Blood Covenant. His Blood flows in our Blood. If you will be allow Him to be the Lord & you will be the Servant & not the other way around.

Exactly. This is secondary theology that just doesn’t really matter. Whether you believe God predestined you to come to him or that you chose out of free will, it doesn’t matter. What matters is the gospel of Jesus Christ and living by the bible. It only becomes a problem once one side starts saying the other side isn’t saved for not having their theology.

Same, I live here in Europe and never heard calvinism until I started watch KZfaq sermons from john piper ect

@@brooke4608 The implications of Calvinism make "living by the Bible" look very different under Calvinism than traditional Christianity

@@peterfox7663 it won’t affect your salvation, but it could make things more difficult if your theology isn’t correct

@@brooke4608 Right -- you said the only problem is when it affects your opinion of salvation, and that we should live by the Bible. Living life by Calvinism *is* another problem.

I agree 100%. You stated it much more diplomatically than I could. Jesus died for the sins of the world, not just a few pre-determined elect. Perhaps though, not Ham's descendants based on Noah's prophecies about his 3 sons? Japeth would dwell in Shem's tent meant all of Adam's descendants. Ham, however, was cut from a different geneology. If there was no free will, how did 1/3 of the Angel's choose to rebel against God, for which there is no repentance bc they cannot plead ignorance? If there is no free will, this entire good vs. evil drama seems entirely unnecessary. No free will means all the struggles of life are pointless if the outcome for each person is rigged (pre-determined). I don't God would have us struggle, stumble & strive in vain. Everything will be for the good of those who love Him & will walk with Him.

@@wakeywakey8603 you're kidding/being facetious about jesus not dying for Ham's descendants right?!?!

You sound like me I do have to say one thing about calvinist is arguing with them made me dive deeper into his word and made more ashore why I believe what I believe

Yes, I had an elder who constantly stressed "sovereignty." To him it means God pre ordains our actions and outcomes, that is, no free will. To me I understand it as I think the Bible reveals; God is sovereign, that is, we will all stand to account in front of him for our lives. He has the ultimate say, but gives us free will to choose morally his way or our way. Just like an earthly king is sovereign. He can be obeyed or disobeyed, but holds ultimate authority to deal with disobedience. I find calvin's doctrine to not only be a libel of God's character, but also to be irrational.

It seems impossible today to find a local church assembly which does not teach error in some form or fashion. Calvinism is a particularly heinous heresy, and I personally would not sit under the preaching of anyone who promotes it.

It's interesting, that episode in the garden. For a brief time Jesus, God in human form had a Will opposed to the Father's. But He chose the Father's Will. Profound that

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. Two out of three failed in a sinless state. Lucifer in Ezekiel 28:11-19, and Isaiah 14:13-14. Adam in the garden, and Jesus Christ in a garden.

But Jesus asked God to take that cup away from him but instead chose Gods will not his own human will… how would you explain that?

@@Uialiainival808 Thank you Lord Jesus! He chose the Father’s will and us! Praise God! I can only relate to my own faith experience which has been about trust. “looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.“ Hebrews‬ ‭12‬:‭2‬ Trust, walking by faith and not by sight. We trust and humble ourselves in culture that values power and control because we trust our Father in faith. To me it’s like a mega phone saying “LOOK!! There’s more than what you can see.” His sheep hear His voice. Whoever has eyes to see and ears to hear take up your own cross and follow Jesus. He trusted the Father and we trust Him. It’s costly in the world’s eyes but holds immeasurable treasure and joy for us in the Lord!

@@shredhed572 Opposing God's will would be sin. Jesus didn't oppose God. Jesus submitted to the Father.

I was saved in a charismatic church and am not sure if I completely agree with their theology, but have come to reject Calvinism and cessationism as well, so I’m in the weirdest place theologically right now lol. There is no mainstream position that I fit into. It’s a strange place to be, but I’m ok with it. I expect my position to change as I continue to learn.

@@lancesteinke3732 Lance, have you looked into Molinism? It was the original polemic against Calvinism and neatly ties together free will and God's choice without getting crazy. I suggest checking out William Lane Craig's work on it. Tim Stratton has a lot of work on it as well. It's basically built around the concept that God knows what free creatures would do in any given circumstances and then uses that knowledge.

@@Afterword. I haven’t studied molinism yet. I’ve heard of it though. I was that was probably closest to the conclusion I was drawing about these things. I think I’ll check it out. Thank you.

@@lancesteinke3732 It's surprisingly straightforward. I haven't found a solid Biblical argument against it yet. Even Calvinists attack it with philosophical objections. Definitely something to check out.

@@lancesteinke3732 Also, I was also raised pretty Charismatic for the first dozen years. I hear you on the journey!

David W Hunt interesting food for thought 🧐

David W Hunt Amen!

David, I find the speaker's chessboard analogy useful. Imagine a a person chess game against a super computer. Though it is predestined that the person will lose because of the computer's IQ level - this does not mean that its human rival doesn't have freewill when carrying out chess moves.

@@budekins542 fantastic analogy! I love it. The other one I like is that God is playing 10 dimensional chess (many scientists now think there are 10 dimensions) , Satan is playing checkers, and we haven't got a clue. And they accuse us if diminishing the sovereignty of God!

@@billysparks5860 Billy, I learned something interesting last evening. I learned that when the word for sin was translated into the Latin Vulgate the word was translated with a term used in a legal context for an offense that requires legal punishment. However the Greek translation means to fall short of and miss the mark, which is what the word meant in the original language. I think we need to learn to recognize our presuppositions. No one has ever shown me a verse that says babies and young children go to hell as they deserve because of Adam's sin. Yet I used to believe that, but no longer. The Bible says God does not punish children for the sins of their fathers. Jesus told the disciples to let the little children come to Him for of such are the kingdom of heaven. Do NOT misquote me here. I am not a universalist and am not saying everyone is going to heaven. I am saying that the only unforgiveable sin is the one against the Holy Spirit. If you reject the conviction and drawing of the Holy Spirit at the end of your life, that sin will not be forgiven. I had a difference of opinion with someone else who used the passage that we were all enemies when Christ died for us as a proof text to his assertion that we are born hating God. These are not the same things. My questions were never answered. Did Adam and Eve "hate" God when they sinned in the garden of Eden? Did Peter "hate" Jesus when he sinned against him by denying him? Did Paul hate God when he persecuted Christians? My point is that if we approach the Bible with specific suppositions we will interpret it in a way that is in line with those presuppositions. Many of us grew up with the supposition that we deserve hell because of Adam's sin. I believe a better understanding is that we are all broken because of Adam's sin and now inherit that sinful nature that WILL NO DOUBT SIN and therefore we will all miss the mark and be disqualified from being God's children but for the redemption of Jesus Christ by his crucifixion. (We deserve hell if we trample on the sacrifice Christ made on the cross by rejecting him. We are doomed to be cast out of heaven unless regenerated because of our brokeness and sinful natures. Jesus said often he came to seek and save the lost ) One viewpoint sees God as angry and punishing people for something they could not help. The other sees God as creating man to bear His image in the world, and giving man the ability to choose so they could be His image bearers. He knew we would mess it up, but He has not given up His plan. Instead He intervened to crush the head of the "serpent" in the Garden of Eden, and restore those who would choose Him to His original plan (of being His image bearers) or... we can make the same choice Adam and Eve made and disobey God and try to find our own way to be like God and end up sharing a dwelling place with Satan.) By the way, Romans 9 says Esau served Jacob. When did that happen? Please read Micah chapt in full for the context of the Jacob I loved, Esau I hated statement. When you read Micah 1 you see it clearly refers to their descendants rather than them as individuals. Read the entire Chapter of Romans 9. Further down it clearly shows Paul is speaking of groups rather than individuals. If God decrees everything that happens what in the world is the point of the book of Job? Please note that Job's friends meant well. Much of what they said was actually true, but they misapplied things to Job because they were not privy to what had gone on in heaven. Neither are we. God was angry at Job's friends for misreoresenting Him. We all see through a glass darkly now. Let's remember that and not be like Job's friends.

Yay! That must be such a relief because now you can rely on yourself instead of God. Smh.

@@m.d.d4250 Is that what you got out of this comment? Seriously? Oh wait! Calvinism. When it's absolutely necessary to tweak everything you read for the purpose of propping up your false doctrine.

I knew the doctrine of Calvinism was wrong the moment I began reading the Bible as a new believer, not because of any innate intelligence or foresight I possessed, but because I was thirsty to know the truth, and so I humbly asked the Lord to reveal it to me and He answered my questions without fail.

what has He revealed to you? Calvinism has been killing me, i want Him to talk to me too

@@ScottRachelson777 if you prayed and asked the lord to tell you what the canon is, what will he say?

yessssss

I was about to quote this before having a quick look at the comments, lest I repeat somebody else's observation.

truth.

amen that alone tells you calvanism is false.

Don't forget to study the 7 letters from Christ in revelation to know what more He expects from his church

Fred Miller yes let's pray for brother Flowers that his video reaches others that are still stuck in the muck of the sins of ingratitude and presumption. if love is not our identifying attribute in Christ then I would suggest we are missing the mark and need to, as Christ states in his letter to ephesus, repent and return to our first love.

Fred Miller "...dividing the Word of God." You're wrong on that point for sure. You made ink on paper, a phonic sound out of the mouth of the Lord a proper noun of the Lord Jesus, as does so many in error. Revelation 19:13 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and *his name is called The Word of God.* Luke 11:28 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that *hear the word of God, and keep it.* Word of God = The Lord Jesus. word of God = written or spoken words.

@Fred Miller that sounds good, rightly dividing the Word. But when it is said, many are called but only a few chosen; Means many or everyone is being called to the gospel of Jesus Christ, to hear, understand and follow. Those that follow in truth are of God's chosen elect. That means it is for everyone to seek that spiritual revelation through Christ.

@Vaticanus Fidelis Pretty sure she is not talking about the universal church of Satan or corpus hermeticum...

Hero

Thanks!

Gentlemen and a scholar

We are disciples of Jesus Christ! We are believers. We are NOT non Calvinists!

Have you read his book:" What Love is This? Calvinisms Misrepresentation of God"?

@@Steve-og4ii No but my brother and dad have and it's been in my "To read" que for a while.

Paul Zollinger Man paul you have a good point. This guys is more in the spirit than by far most of the debaters out there

Well if people's heart is seeking truth, i don't think they'll reject it on count of the deliverer :-). I've spent most of my time one-on-one or small groups where I don't monologue but discuss. And we see why the narrow way is. Most want an excuse. Antagonize the delivery boy and excuse their rejection on basis of them calling it out? uhuh. God won't buy it. He sees the heart.

sounddoctorin I don’t believe most are seeking truth. They are seeking to be right and find evidence to back their positions. I’ve followed debates online for a few years now. Primarily I see people’s theology follows their belief system (not the other way around). People recreate God in their own image and then spend years even decades developing a carefully designed theology to back it up. If any part of this theology is wrong, God forbid! It will be extremely hard to break them out of it (because their theology is actually and expression of their identity). Because there such intense spiritual warfare surrounding these issues the more grace and diplomacy possible the better (and better chance at breaking someone put of error). And its darn hard to do especially if you think you are right about something. God have mercy

@@bill_y4762 exactly. There's a mental disease I call ITS (Internet 'teacher' syndrome). Even if you agree they have to posture over you teaching you something and if you dare dispute (see my David Sasina vid) ohhh now you're attacking the 'lord's anointed'... I wonder if he's still alive. You can't believe how many have croaked shortly after i get done with them in the last 33 yr or so of doing my thing on the net. My usual 'thing' is to confront errant teaching by asking questions and doing scripture exegesis. I get ignored, misunderstood deliberately often and personally attacked. All these years keeping my personal info where people can contact if they want. The number of times I was booted for employing matt 18:15-xx w/ people claiming to be in Christ...yikes. And right after like Nabeel get cancer or Hendry hits a semi w/ his wife and they lose their heads or Manley goes hunting next day and a guy murders him....head of a oneness group...heart attack doa... WHAT DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT "Many are sick among you because they fail to discern the body of Christ'? Love reasons. These people have not the love of God...only puffed up heads

Tigerex966 very well said. Really that is the heart of the issue. Calvinism is utter blasphemy. It attributes all evil to God. Basically the most satanic teaching ever vomited out of the mouth of the Devil. The truth which is God in his great love and wisdom Chose to give His creatures a measure of free will. It was so important to Him He was willing to die for it (their failure to use it rightly) and give men the choice to follow Him even in their most broken state and receive His forgiveness and the power to serve Him through the Holy Spirit. A good and gracious God, satan (calvins god) is the actual author of evil.

Repentance of sins isn’t a requirement of obtaining eternal life. Repentance of sins is a discipleship issue after believing for eternal life. The book of John proves this to us. It’s the only book in the Bible written to unbelievers. It follows that all the information we need is in John’s gospel. The word repentance is in the book zero times. Over and over we’re told that believing in Christ for the promise of everlasting life is the only condition to receive everlasting life.

@@garyleemusic that’s right. You can repent or f sins after salvation, but it has nothing to do with salvation The only condition is belief / faith

@G G The offer of eternal life wasn't offered to demons. What they believe doe does nothing to diminish that eternal is through simply believing that Jesus is the Christ, the one who guarantees eternal life to all who believe in Him for it. God bless!

@@garyleemusicMark 1:14-15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” I don’t know if your comment is accurate or not.

It's more of an existential crisis that he was trying to avoid.

Well said, Kenray!👍

Interesting! Good point

There is predeterminism, as in Revelations tells us. Satan WILL be defeated. As far as humans having no free will to come to God for mercy of our sin, I can't believe that. Bible says, God chose us, but I believe, WE HAVE to hear His Word first and chose to accept God's Word and His mercy. That's where Calvinists believe that God has already CHOSEN those that will be accepted by Him, and all created other humans will be damned to hell forever. Why would God create a person, knowing that predetermined that that person would go to hell, with eternal punishment?

R.C. has been misled, and if anyone follows him, they too will be misled. He bought a "man's" theilogy, hook, line and sinker. I think it always starts with pride.

Yes! The Bible references the dangers of being “puffed up.” I’m coming out of Seventh Day Adventism and was told McArthur/Sproul were solid pastors. However after studying them intensely over past several weeks I still feared for my salvation. Hearing yesterday for first time what Calvinism is (didn’t even know that’s what they are… God bless a commenter speaking up) Im finally experiencing some long sought after peace. And wouldn’t you know it - googled Ellen White’s opinion, and she was a huge supporter of Calvinism (so ta-dah, I was going round the same pointless, torturous circle)

Sproul even doubted his own salvation whe he saw himself through the Calvinist lens . John Calvin was a murderer,and a liar ,historical facts. He turned Geneva into an inquisition . sentencing people to death bannishing people from the city . persecuting other Christians for disagreeing with him . In England they imprisoned Christians for refusing Calvins doctrine ,took their belongings ,stole their property . all because they said only the scriptures . sola scriptura!

I believe the 5 points>> R.U.D.I.P. (Radical Corruption, Unconditional election, Definite Atonement, Irresistable Grace, and Perseverence of the Saints (Preservation of the Savior)). Arminians can be saved. logic is not required for salvation!. God has given us our teachable minds and His Spirit to understand the deep things of Scripture and we have the mind of Christ (by His Spirit). Leighton Flowers is in my opinion wrong. Reformed soteriology is difficult. It is almost impossible for JW's, Mormons, and many others to understand these deep truths, unless they become Christians (By God's grace!). But the requirement for salvation is not Biblical logic. The requirement is that Jesus died for your sins and enabled you to trust Him alone for eternal life. RUDIP are my 5 points that refute un-Biblical Arminianism. - J.B.

Michael Ibach You wanted to believe. Amen.

It's been five months, so happy for you brother, welcome home

@@evanu6579 A thing he couldnt have done without God making the first move. We are powerless dust.

Valor Above All But dead men are capable of wanting to be right with God. That’s what he said and that’s what the bible said. Calvinists claim that the only thing that can change that wicked depraved heart is irresistible grace. Are you claiming something different? He wanted to before regeneration. That’s a big problem for your stance.

@@valoraboveall5793 You mean like we can only come if the Father draws us? (John 6:44). Do you believe that Jesus is God? Because He said when He is lifted up He will draw ALL men to Himself. (John 12:32). (Insert calvinist definition of "ALL" here)

And of course no Calvinist would say men don't have a will, the question is; what does the bible say about man's will and their ability to please God? (hint hint: They can't please God nor do they want to. Their will is enslaved, not free) So this Calvinist (if that's what he told you) was just telling you what the bible says about it and your beef isn't with him, it's with the bible.

rpavich you’re ridiculous. Have you ever read 1 Cor 5:1-5? Is that guy elect or not? Paul says he is. Calvinism can’t stand. We’re people in the Old Testament regenerated? When did they get regenerated? according to this damaging doctrine you don’t even know if you have trampled underfoot the blood. Have you sinned willfully after coming to knowledge of the truth? You don’t even realize how sharp that sword is. Our faith in Jesus is in no way connected to our works. That’s Paul. You have more beef with the Bible than you even know.

Watch most Calvinists preachers and it’s pretty much like getting a stern chewing out. Not very loving, you can preach without compromise without being “hateful” for lack of a better word.

@@rpavich Out of context much?

Calvinists say you are stealing Gods glory because they define faith as a work (which is contrary to the entire book of Romans). In their system if faith is a work which merits salvation then you are the author of your own salvation because you believed (or chose God). The system actually makes complete logical sense but not scriptural sense because Paul literally and repeatedly defines faith as the opposite of a work, and the salvation that comes through faith is a Gift from God (which is to say faith does not warrant salvation, God in His mercy chooses to inpute righteousness to those who believe, they didn't earn it). Faith is the non work. This is a major point of the book of Romans and is somewhat mystically missed by Calvinists.

"nor can we also be forced (irresistible grace)" Were you born into the world by the choice of your "free will"?

"nor can we also be forced (irresistible grace)" Were you born into the world by the choice of your "free will"?

Free Will means that we have the will to choose what we desire and the natural man doesnt desire God.

Agree with u in part but not about the angels having free will. If ur interested we can share a dialogue

John calvin’s point was not about anything that happened in heaven or before the fall into sin,but rather about after the fall into sin. In Mark 7:21 Jesus makes the point abundantly clear; continued: “What comes out of a man, that is what defiles him. 21For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery,22greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. 23All these evils come from within, and these are what defile a man.” TheThen also check out Jeremiah 17:9The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. So John Calvin’spoint simply is that man cannot come to God of his own. God needs to be involved. How ? That I don’t pretend to know. But John6:37 may give us a clue; 37Everyone the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but to do the will of Him who sent Me.

Are you still a Calvinist?

Weren’t that your family and your choices, not John Calvin’s?

I don't understand your view of Calvinism, or why you doubt God's love for you, once you have become a follower of Christ you are instantly part of the elect and your salvation is secure and cannot be taken away otherwise it was never genuine in the first place. that is my understanding of it and seems to be backed up by scripture.

I don't think u understand calvinism

@Sam Brown Well said. God indeed loves you.

Yeah Calvinism is dangerous. I’ll be divisive about it to a degree. The issue i have is that with this line of thinking the evidence of true faith is works for the Calvinist. Many preachers are teaching that if you remain in unrepentant sin you are not truly regenerated. It’s easily refuted by 2 different passages by Paul to the corinthians. Firstly 1 Cor 5:5 where the man in a particularly gross sin is told to be kicked out of the church so his flesh will die and his spirit will be saved in the day of Christ. Second when Paul says there are some who haven’t repented in the church! If calvinists took their own fruit inspections to John Calvin himself, would he pass? The truth must must MUST be rightly divided! Proper dispensational theology makes sense of James, Hebrews, Matthew, Revelation, 1 John and Acts. Paul only taught faith without works. Check out David peacock on the kingdom of heaven vs the kingdom of God If you want to explore it further. I know the burden I was under thinking I made shipwreck of the faith. God bless brother.

Whenever I doubt my salvation, I like reading the meditations of the puritans. 'Tis a point I long to know, Oft it causes anxious thought; Do I love the Lord or no? Am I his, or am I not? His free grace alone, from the first to the last, Hath won my affection, and held my soul fast. Nothing in my hand I bring Simply to the cross I cling. Venture on him, venture wholly, Let no other trust intrude; None but Jesus kind and loving, Can do helpless sinners good. Here's pardon for transgressions past, It matters not how black their cast, And O my soul, with wonder view, For sins to come, here's pardon too. Fully discharged by Christ I am, From Christ's tremendous curse and blame. His tried Almighty arm Is raised for your defence; Where is the power can reach you there? Or what can pluck you thence? His honor is engaged to save The meanest of his sheep; All that his Heavenly Father gave His hand securely keeps. What may be be my future lot, High or low concerns me not; This doth set my heart at rest: What my God appoints is best.

But knowing right doctrine matters a lot. Knowing right doctrine is related with your faith and believe in Christ. So it matters a lot.

We all believe salvation comes in the same way, it's just a difference in opinion on how people get there. You're right, it's not a salvation issue & shouldn't divide us like it does. Proud sinners on both sides yelling at each other doesn't help us reach the lost.

@@sandeepsinghrajput4308 Only 1 doctrine is related with my faith & that is that Jesus Christ is God, He was crucified for my sins & He rose from the dead to defeat death so I can live forever.

True faith will always include obedience to God's commands out of love.

It is a salvation issue. If calvinism is true its not possible to repent. Its not possible to turn to god. According to them its not even possible to turn to God even if He draws you! (He has to do both, the drawing and the response in your heart). Man has no part or response in any of it. This is what they call monergistic salvation, that it is all God alone, there is not some kind of submission or response by man. Literally man cannot even beat his breast and say “god have mercy on me the sinner”. None of the was of that man, he’s completely and 100% dead. God literally had to “Regenerate” his will just to get the man to even pray that prayer. The man no more could have resisted it than dead Frankenstein’s monster could have resisted being assembled together as a corpse and have electricity shot through his body until he came to life!! That’s literally what they teach you can verify everything I am saying by studying 5 points calvinism (TULIP). I’m not sure i would recommend it though, its like eating a box of nails (with no salt), some of the points of tulip are some of the most Anti-scriptural assertions ever made (especially “L” limited atonement). Its stunning and beyond comprehension anyone could believe limited atonement you just have to throw out verse after verse after verse after verse after verse.

Ditto and ditto.

@Johan Strydom Dave, Jaap, and I left Calvinism because we found it not to be true to according to the Scriptures. That's the only reason people abandon it.

Me too, little by little, scared to death though. It's why I'm creeping around in secret from friends and church family :/ I keep doubting my salvation and most Calvinist will say it's because I wasn't of the fold anyways :(

@@bookemchristy4706 I have experienced similar. I had several very good friends in my church who were in positions of leadership. They were grooming me to become a leader, but as soon as I started questioning Calvinist doctrine, they cut me out. Then I started getting the passive-aggressive, "You know, often times people who aren't saved don't even know it" comments. Paul says, "If we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead, we will be saved." Jesus IS Lord, and He is risen! But . . . it appears as if you have to define these words "correctly": "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is completely Sovereign and chooses whom He will save, and you believe that God raised Him from the dead, then you are most likely chosen, but probably won't find out until you've died." It sounds a lot like the Watchtower Society to me. . . . .

@@charlesmartinjr3971 Calvinism is a CULT

Please, I grew up arminian and there are prideful people on both sides. God chooses people according to the counsel of His own will and not because of anything in and of the person themselves. That alone should make people very humble, and thankful knowing that their salvation is all of the grace of God. If you ask me, arminians are prideful thinking they were wiser and more spiritual than all the other sinners out there who didn't "choose God" for themselves and can then pat themselves on the back for doing so.

GOD is so Good. I can not agree more with what you said. God values God's own integrity. God sets his own parameters. Gob Bless. God wants self Government under his King and Lordship. The Holy Ghost is what God gives us freely when we are born again and is the Govenor in us.Jesus is our King and has returned to the Father. God's purpose for saving us was not so we can be trophies.we are now Citizens of a Spiritual Kingdom here right now on earth. God's plan was to give man authority Dominion.Jesus died to restore us to his original purpose and proper relationship. Jesus is the way to his Kingdom he is the King.time to start right now.we can be with Christ forever and we are saved from the despair of being separated from Christ.

I agree. I see a shocking level of pride within Calvinists, who are otherwise excellent Christians. They tend to use ‘Strawmen’ fallacies calling everybody else ‘Arminians’, when the Truth of scripture is neither Calvinist nor Arminian. The Truth of the Bible is simple & straightforward before people are indoctrinated into Calvinism. I think people like Calvinism because it emphasizes God’s sovereignty, but Calvinism twists the definitions of words, so it undermines its own strengths with a bizarre & unbiblical ‘frozen-chosen’ theology.

I've found that hyper Arminianism is more often given to pride and hyper Calvinism to false humility - where said proponents of either set of doctrines identify specifically as one or the other. I once said that I'm neither and that position was perceived to be impossible by those I was speaking with in an online forum. Satan is the master of false dichotomies and has many spellbound by them.

Was St. Augustine The First To Introduce " Calvinism " To The Church? Dr. Ken Wilson, Soteriology 101

This is where I have come too on my walk as well. Why does it have to be either or

The Quran says that Allah is the "best of deceivers." This is true of God according to Calvinism because God speaks to people throughout Scripture as if they have the ability to do otherwise in their decisions but they actually don't.

I have observed the same spirit behind some (not all) Calvinists and some (not all) Muslims. They disguise fatalism as Sovereignty.

Arminian* Armenians come from Armenia. Arminianism is named after Arminius.

I had the same experience! It almost made me suicidal, but there is no relief in the Calvinist system and suicide would only deepen my despair if they were right. I cried out to God to show me the truth and if Calvinism was true could God please somehow take me out of existance because everything was just too horrible to bear. Jesus said his yoke was easy and he would give us rest for our souls and He does. Calvinists don't get it and their burden is unbearable. John Calvin had people executed for disagreeing with him. Why would you want to identify with him? I study scripture so my belief is not based on emotion but Dr. Flowers explains that better than I could. Thank God for Dr. Flowers and C.S. Lewis, D.L. Moody, Dr. Chuck Missler, John Wesley and other non-Calvinists He has given us to help restore us to peace in Him!

Serious question: Why is it so important to Calvinists that everybody else endorse Calvinism?

@@robanddawnramcharan6408 because they are a cult mentality. Anytime you have US vs THEM, man's carnal nature and emotions do the same things. Judging others lost who don't agree. They also become like the God they believe in. Hating most of the world EXCEPT his little chosen flock. They are in a cult. Corruption in one of it's many forms. Indoctrination is a hell of a drug!

@@robanddawnramcharan6408 is it? Seems equally important to people to point out that Calvinists are wrong. Seems like either one is beneficial if it makes the person love and follow God better.

@@crabring Maybe so. But beware the unacceptable face of Matthew 7:23.

@@robanddawnramcharan6408yeah, seems equally true to anyone...??

Thank you. He talks too much of unnecessary matters to the subject.

Thank you! I am happy to find like-minded people free to interpret the Bible in a straightforward way. Sadly, Calvinists twist definitions of words into a circular-reasoning Chinese-finger trap. I am thrilled to find people who simply believe what the Bible says (without twisted definitions ).

The reason for "slapping on" name tags is purely for ease of identifying your soteriological doctrine. My soteriology aligns with calvinism, so instead of saying my doctrine is of a monergistic salvation and my ordo salutis goes through this list. I simply say Im a calvinist. The same could be said for arminians with their understanding of these things. Among mature believers within both camps it is well assumed that we all believe in "sola fide" faith alone, and within that unity we may discuss a difference in perspective on salvation :)

You're not related to Dale Dominy are you?

I am not.

That’s why most public figures like RC Sproul and John MacArthur use the term “reformed”

One is saved or unsaved. Matthew 7 tells us that “many” people that identify as a Christian will be rejected by Jesus and not enter into heaven. What matters first and foremost is believing the right gospel. Everything else is secondary.

missthunderstormable, There are numerous intelligent people who are wrong in their belief about God... There are many brilliant atheist that do not believe in God....God usually choose the simple but kind hearted and lowly people... True, Calvinism is NOT a True Biblical doctrine because Calvinism is a mixture of Biblical Truth and man-made Lies......

@@52RGD 100% I like to listen to Ben Shapiro now and again debate on different topics as he is very sharp and intelligent, at the same time he doesn't believe the gospel.

@@52RGD well said..

If people are leaving the faith because of theological debates, they most likely never truly loved Jesus. I think you are overstating your case, people are just debating online about the proper interpretation of the Bible and Christian theology. Both of these question are incredibly important. Furthermore you comment does exactly the same you claim to oppose, just pridefully tone-policing. If you would like people to take you seriously you shouldnt try to minimize issues people find important, all the while presenting yourself as some moral authority.

@Christian McNeal You are right to describe this “contempt” as destructive. May God have mercy on us all.

Sadly millennial forms of evangelicalisms are so concerned with superficial aspects of the faith, and their own emotional responses that they ignore scripture and despise godly authority. All the while, affecting a holier than thou attitude. It's a bizarre "love" pharisaicism that bludgeons everyone over the head demanding people to worship them and their misguided opinions "or else." Its manipulative, disengenuous, and fundamentally contrary to the Gospel.

"I pray God will open the hearts and minds of all who hear it" But what about their "free will"?

​@@MansterBear "Opening a person's heart" simply implies that a person will need some assistance to overcome their prejudices and presumptions. Whether or not they receive it and respond to it is their choice. ;-)

That's true only GOD can save them from it

K.J. McQueary the fact that you believe Calvin’s exploration of the scripture had an influx into the Church shows you have no idea of what he wrote. Or Church history. Armenian beliefs has crept into the Church, especially in America. Dr Flowers is an Arminian, a disciple of Arminius. He was a man who despised the reformation and sought a return to Catholicism and sacraments to be saved. At the heart of it is does God save by grace (Calvin) or by works (Arminius). If we have any rule in our salvation and Arminianism is correct IT IS a work and can rightly brag we chose God. If it is not by works, and if salvation is by grace then Arminius CAN NOT be correct in their theology. Dr Flowers sadly believes he was wise enough to choose God.

so good!

You are very good at apologetic. The academic approach is not an apologetic. Our faith is our apologetic. You have a great God and you trust him, keep on doing that.

That's weird, because I've never heard a Calvinist say that TULIP (i.e. reformed theology) is an one of the "essentials" - a belief that one must accept for salvation. So I'm not sure why you would be so concerned whether or not your child believes it. He would be saved either way.

Arminianism is heresy

God’s Holy character is maligned - if we believe the doctrine of a mere man - John Calvin. If we were to personally experience some of the horrors committed by some people, I don’t think we’d be so quick to resign ourselves to the erroneous thought, that it’s for “God’s good pleasure.” Focus on Jesus Christ❤️ Holy, pure, righteous, merciful, spotless Saviour for all those who FREELY BELIEVE in HIM. Thank you Mr Leighton. Your videos are very helpful.

When God takes you from the mire and puts your feet on the Rock, you know Who is responsible. Unfortunately, it isn't His Sovereignty or election that maligns His Character, but Limited Atonement & Eternal Torment. The Total Victory of Christ KZfaq Channel has it ♡

protruth1... and you are right because after having spoken with "Calvin's disciples" I am persuaded that this doctrine comes straight from hell. Either they reject you if you disagree with them or they call you an Armenian. This movement belongs to the end times: false doctrines. The picture and the view they have from God is actually horrible. Calvinism is a CULT. I immediately identified it as a false doctrine when I heard from it! Especially when I noticed the "false humility" of people who pretend to be "elect" because they say that they receive a conviction in their heart and they will pray for me so that I receive the revelation as well!!!

Amen me too

Read the BIBLE. Before that ask the Holy Spirit to guide you

Matt Lewis its a tulip that has fallen apart on the ground

I noticed that too.

😂😂😂

Humbly? Haha he had to first announce how great of a debater he is..:-D

Your story has really hit me. I grew up in a reformed church, but I was lucky to have a pastor that focused on the study of scripture before the study of Calvinism. I grew up hearing the words of the Bible as they were meant to be read, and really did not hear anything at all about Calvinism nor Arminianism nor any church arguments about whatever. My pastor taught me correctly and did not care to argue about this kind of thing. I did not understand anything about Calvinism until i was in 10th grade. I had heard the name a few times before but I didn’t know what it was all about. When I first understood the doctrines of 5-point high Calvinism I was repulsed by it. It was disgusting to me. I was on a journey of coming back to faith in god in that time and worrying about it being true caused me much anxiety. I eventually had deep depression because I believed I was reprobate and didn’t have the free will ability to come to faith. This was because I was naturally so repulsed by Calvinism and had recently been taught that Calvinism is the truth of the Bible so I thought myself incapable of being a Christian. Calvinist made me repulsed by the Bible because they put it in my head that high Calvinism is the whole truth of the Bible and that if you don’t believe it you aren’t being an honest Christian. My natural repulsion for high 5-point Calvinism had become a repulsion for the word because calvinists made me believe it was one in the same. I wasn’t able to be Christian until I pushed all thoughts of the useless arguments of doctrine out of my head and read the word once again. This story brings me strength in my faith in the word and the word alone which saved me from my depression and feeling of exclusion from God. Thank you this is very needed as I am in the middle of a theology class in my school that I must sit through that only tries to hammer 5-point Calvinism into our heads. It affects my relationship with god greatly and is bringing back some of the anxieties of my previous belief in the doctrine. All I have to say for anyone reading, if you are teaching a new believer about god, focus on the showing them the word not your specific doctrine. Allow the word to explain the word and allow God to do his work. As long as your student seeks the truth, that is god, honestly he will be ok. Give him help when he needs but don’t push things onto him, and pray earnestly and make sure that your help is what is best for him, not spreading your very specific system of theology. For anyone that is trying to argue with me remember that I am mainly arguing against catching believers in the cross fire of useless doctrinal arguments, not just arguing about Calvinism. Calvinism had just been my experience.

Christian Dehlinger believe Jesus not tyrant murderer Calvin

We need grace even if we are predestined because it is only by God's grace that he chose us. The question should not be "why did God save some people and not others?" The question ought to be "why did God save anyone?" As for faith God not only gives us the ability to have faith but gives us that same faith

God has ordained the means by which He will save His elect. The primary means by which He saves His people is the preaching of the Gospel. Therefore, we should preach. No one, this side of Heaven, knows the identity of the elect. Therefore, we should preach/share the gospel indiscriminately in obedience to God's command.

@@tylerpedersen9836 then answer this question.. If God pre destined and pre ordained everything.. Then how come we fell short from God?. Did He pre destined or pre ordained that Adam and Eve will eat the fruit of the knowledge of Good and evil? You cant answer that.. because R.C sprould also admitted he cant answer that question.