The Alpha Course is emotionally powerful but theologically confused - Tony Payne

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The Pastor's Heart

The Pastor's Heart

4 жыл бұрын

The Alpha Course is 'emotionally powerful but theologically confused'.
The Alpha Course is the fastest growing evangelistic course in the world - almost 20 million people in 170 countries have taken the course. There are clear reasons for its popularity, including emotionally powerful content and welcoming group structures.
Christian Author Tony Payne has watched through the latest Alpha materials, and joins Dominic Steele to work through the strengths and weaknesses of the course.
Tony Payne is the founding editor of Matthias Media, and Writer-in-residence at Campus Bible Study in Sydney. He has written (or co-authored) numerous books and ministry resources, including The Trellis and the Vine, and currently publishes an online blog/podcast called The Payneful Truth (thepaynefultruth.substack.com)
Disclaimer: Tony Payne is one of the authors of Two Ways to Live. Dominic Steele is author of www.introducinggod.org

Пікірлер: 100
@JAam430
@JAam430 2 жыл бұрын
I've done one session and it was all stuff I already know. Liked the discussions afterwards
@dermotosullivan3065
@dermotosullivan3065 2 жыл бұрын
I did Alpha a few years back and it is really just an introduction to Christianity. Whilst a lot of established Christians attend the course it is just designed to bring non-believers into the fold. Alpha does that very well and it's unfair to be judging it too harshly on theological grounds.
@simpleObserver100
@simpleObserver100 Жыл бұрын
Have you watched episode 16??
@dermotosullivan3065
@dermotosullivan3065 Жыл бұрын
@@simpleObserver100 Episode 16 of what??
@Wyldfam
@Wyldfam 2 ай бұрын
​@@dermotosullivan3065of The Alpha course
@briansargent5824
@briansargent5824 Жыл бұрын
I heard that repentance is for Christians, while for people searching, the primary emphasis is learning about Jesus. If the Alpha course is intended for people searching then it seems the course does things right.
@markdoherty754
@markdoherty754 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this information, it confirms some things I've heard about this course. Love the clarity and references to building a proper foundation from 1 Corinthians 3 and 4.
@penstar
@penstar Жыл бұрын
Very good!
@hyweldda56
@hyweldda56 2 жыл бұрын
Alpha is not perfect, but it does work and God appears to be blessing it and there are very few other courses like it. The closest is Christianity Explored. We clearly need more.
@lindarock4526
@lindarock4526 9 ай бұрын
Well said 👏
@Wyldfam
@Wyldfam 2 ай бұрын
I would agree but after doing research on this ( alpha course ) The Pope Endorses it, Joyce Myers Endorses it, and Ric Warren, now that is 3 major red flags and I'll also say this Nic Gumbel says all churches should come together which the Pope also wants, which is telling me, One World Religion. Nic Gumbel has also talked about one world religion at a conference ( which was all faiths coming together ) now that's a HUGE red flag surly
@mikescollard6499
@mikescollard6499 2 ай бұрын
​@@WyldfamOne world religion? Ha! There are at least a hundred christian ones to get on side first.
@Wyldfam
@Wyldfam 2 ай бұрын
@@mikescollard6499 don't you believe in the word of God?
@lindarock4526
@lindarock4526 9 ай бұрын
Ok so it's not perfect but I brings to my mind conversations that I have had with Christians who have shared the Gospel with someone and felt they had really made an absolute mess of it only for the people they had spoken to come to know the Lord. We can only sow rhe seed and water it , God through the conviction of the Holy Spirit does the rest
@krizzie122
@krizzie122 Жыл бұрын
was running it few years back. A participant wanted to know the difference between Catholic and Christian. She did her own research and found some huge differences. She was then very puzzled why Catholicism seems to be promoted and held up as an option for anyone who might be looking for a church. It was more than awkward and placed me in a very difficult spot.
@marksandsmith6778
@marksandsmith6778 Жыл бұрын
Very funny 😂😂😂
@krizzie122
@krizzie122 Жыл бұрын
@@marksandsmith6778 it was not funny it was awkward. I need to be able to have a course that I can trust that doesn't put me in an awkward place
@earlydawn8183
@earlydawn8183 Жыл бұрын
Nicky Gumbel and Alpha work hand in hand with the Roman Catholic Church.
@marksandsmith6778
@marksandsmith6778 Жыл бұрын
@@earlydawn8183 So collaborators. Like the Vichy French.
@wilsonsclips_
@wilsonsclips_ 3 ай бұрын
A modern day course can teach an apostolic religion, but it would need to be tailored to that religions fundamental core beliefs. In Catholicism this would centre around the 7 sacraments. They are foundational in understanding when you’re new to the faith. So I think it’s unfair anyone would put you in a situation where you need to understand multiple different Christian denominations all with unique historical starting points. Do they want you to know Luther’s history in Protestantism in the 16th century? The anabaptists of Sweden and how it lead to John Smyths baptists? King Henry and the Church of England? Anglicans? As well as the apostolic history of the Catholic Church and all the popes back to St Linus? It’s a ridiculous ask for anyone who doesn’t have a decade or two to dedicate into Christianity and it’s many denominations and so it’s no wonder you felt in an awkward position. It seems to me that the course only works on a shallow level. If someone has deep questions they will be brought back into shallow waters. This is horrifying since especially someone converting must go as deep as they personally can to meet Good in the depths of their soul. They put you in the awkward position of wielding shallow answers for people’s deepest questions and that must have been an awful spot to be in
@shannonjenkins9251
@shannonjenkins9251 3 жыл бұрын
One doesn’t need a course to be filled by the Holy Spirit. Genuinely Repenting of our sins and Genuinely Believing in the finished work on the cross by Jesus Christ and believing he was resurrected on the 3rd day according to scripture, we receive the Holy Spirit. We are born again through redemption of the blood he shed for our sins. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life- John 3:16
@robholman1621
@robholman1621 Жыл бұрын
It would be interesting if we could compare the fruit of the Alpha Course in comparison to the fruit of Christianity Explored. I suspect there really is no comparison in terms of changed and converted lives.
@wbskas
@wbskas Жыл бұрын
ALPHA isn't confused at all. It's one of the most theologically correct that I have ever seen, both as a Minister and Priest myself. It's wonderful.
@williamstaffieri
@williamstaffieri 8 ай бұрын
I have a verse for you to experts in all things supposedly Christian. Job 38:1-3. I heard a pastor once share that he told God that he did not agree with everything at this other pastor said, believed, and did. He said that God replied to him that it was OK because He did not agree with everything he said, believed and did.
@daisybrown3819
@daisybrown3819 3 жыл бұрын
This is absolutely excellent!!!! 😊
@ThePastorsHeart
@ThePastorsHeart 3 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much!
@wjbrokken
@wjbrokken 2 жыл бұрын
I’ve just completed the whole course. I’m still not a believer. It was a good learning experience and helped me understand certain parts of Christianity that I didn’t know about. I do feel it was geared towards people who aren’t Christian at all, which is why I feel they avoid the possibly “touchy” topics like repentance. I feel like if you become a Christian and want to live that lifestyle, repentance and living as a “Disciple of Jesus” as opposed to a “Mainstream Christian” is a move you will make with time. With this also the true understanding of God’s judgment would also be learned over time. Faith is supposed to be a lifelong walk isn’t it? It’s all a tactic, it’s easier to attract people with “love” than with “judgement.” You said it best making the message attractive. The part that got me annoyed was the speaking in tongues episode. Thankfully nobody in my group thought they could or attempted to do that at all throughout the course or I would have immediately left. Still looking into faith. Nothing about the course made me change my mind about faith. I felt nothing when I was supposed to be “filled with the Holy Spirit.” Thanks for this review!
@derekwhite5090
@derekwhite5090 2 жыл бұрын
Sounds to me like you’re searching for Truth. Matthew 7:7 ASK,and it will be given to you, SEEK and you will find, KNOCK and it will be opened to you……
@tonymaghakian1587
@tonymaghakian1587 Жыл бұрын
I think certain courses are wonderful but I encourage you to get alone and meet Jesus one on and and ask Him to show you the truth and He will if you are sincerely seeking truth. God bles you!
@DiscoverJesus
@DiscoverJesus 2 жыл бұрын
I still use this course but I'm considering using more Scriptures to supplement the course. I feel it's too light and as you say emotional. The Western Church needs to rediscover the power of holiness like Wesley and Booth. It's not popular but it's powerful
@Jaaammmbbbooo
@Jaaammmbbbooo Жыл бұрын
Who are Wesley and booth??
@DiscoverJesus
@DiscoverJesus Жыл бұрын
@@Jaaammmbbbooo John Wesley and William Booth amazing Godly men !
@rolandstrandberg
@rolandstrandberg Жыл бұрын
Alpha is a very good introduction to the christian faith. Simple, true and relevant. Theologically it follows the Bible.
@darwinfridgeseals741
@darwinfridgeseals741 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for your video, do you have another discipleship course that's speaks on repentance,
@jkk45
@jkk45 3 жыл бұрын
Christianity Explored is great on this, as is Discipleship Explored (the follow up course)
@ali-eve4279
@ali-eve4279 3 жыл бұрын
@@jkk45 with respect can i ask why you would need a man made course when there is such rich teaching in the bible.
@ThePastorsHeart
@ThePastorsHeart 3 жыл бұрын
We would also recommend www.introducinggod.org
@wesleyrocks1738
@wesleyrocks1738 2 жыл бұрын
Christianity Explored is a great follow up to Alpha....and then Discipleship Explored.
@colinwhite7266
@colinwhite7266 3 жыл бұрын
Great stuff guys! I'm looking at evangelistic courses in the UK with my church here. Can you recommend a few please? I've done Christianity Explored already and looking for other suggestions. Thanks :)
@ThePastorsHeart
@ThePastorsHeart 3 жыл бұрын
Colin - Do check out www.introducinggod.org that Dominic Steele wrote a few years ago.
@chrisrohde4789
@chrisrohde4789 Жыл бұрын
I haven’t done alpha so I can’t compare but I have done Cursillo and found it a good balance of emotional and scriptural. It’s not perfect and it’s not evangelistic.
@kithsirirubesinghe9202
@kithsirirubesinghe9202 3 жыл бұрын
I'd like to know what you think about he "Encounter" program????
@ThePastorsHeart
@ThePastorsHeart 3 жыл бұрын
We are unfamiliar with it. Do you have a web link?
@andrewlblaylock
@andrewlblaylock 2 жыл бұрын
An attack on one course to promote your own. Very nice.
@stephensmith6734
@stephensmith6734 Жыл бұрын
What you win them with you win them to!
@timgage8972
@timgage8972 Жыл бұрын
It's just a tool to be used wisely by churches. None of the courses are perfect.
@raymondnolan6722
@raymondnolan6722 Жыл бұрын
A couple of pilot lights having a discussion 😊
@kithsirirubesinghe9202
@kithsirirubesinghe9202 3 жыл бұрын
I was invited to a Alpha course get together to introduce me to the course. The one inviting me was also "emotional" I'd say. I never had a "good Gut feeling " about it. Was curious and also found various people recommending or "patronizingly " talking about it or trying to integrate their couse eith alpha. This helps to unravel the "mystery " for me.
@ThePastorsHeart
@ThePastorsHeart 3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the feedback. Do check out www.introducinggod.org
@johannes8644
@johannes8644 3 жыл бұрын
@@ThePastorsHeart Spoken like true cessationists, denying the Word of God based on falsely held theological presumptions that are no where taught in the Word of God. Not only false theology, but sinful theology. You need to repent of your false non Biblical cessationist teaching. 1 Corinthians 14:39 “Therefore, my brothers and sisters, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.” Acts 19 “Now it happened that while Apollos was in Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “On the contrary, we have not even heard if there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.”
@socksumi
@socksumi 3 жыл бұрын
Two kinds of objectors. Christians who have a different interpretation of Christian beliefs and doctrines and atheists and those who reject Christian claims as false or delusional.
@DiscoverJesus
@DiscoverJesus 2 жыл бұрын
Atheistic claims are delusions
@socksumi
@socksumi 2 жыл бұрын
@@DiscoverJesus You must be a fundie.
@DiscoverJesus
@DiscoverJesus 2 жыл бұрын
@@socksumi no they are, atheism is absolutely a ridiculous faith claim.
@pup1008
@pup1008 7 ай бұрын
You could also spend your time truthfully & objectively looking into the pup you've been sold!
@drjohnn.sutherland3455
@drjohnn.sutherland3455 Жыл бұрын
As a former Evangelical/Calvinist now a Catholic/Charismatic I found this conversation fascinating. Here in Scotland evangelicalism has almost disappeared, which is a great loss.
@stubdo16
@stubdo16 Жыл бұрын
Hi. Would you go back to being evangelical again, based on the Scottish situation you mentioned?
@01laleo
@01laleo Жыл бұрын
So why has the ''Alpha but...." position not been able to start a conversation with 20 million people. "No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval." 1 Cor 11:19.
@markdoherty754
@markdoherty754 Жыл бұрын
Can someone give me a few good alternative courses that present the gospel including God's wrath in a more biblical way? I heard Christianity Explored mentioned.
@herbiewalkermusic
@herbiewalkermusic Жыл бұрын
The quadrant of authority at 17:44 makes very little sense to me.
@earlydawn8183
@earlydawn8183 Жыл бұрын
Light on repentance.
@pup1008
@pup1008 7 ай бұрын
As an atheist I would love to go but wouldn't want to be disrespectful to the lecturer. If I told him up front he was in for a very hard ride & he can refuse my admission if he likes, that would be fair?
@whhammon
@whhammon 5 ай бұрын
You would be welcome at our table. Let's talk about it.
@pup1008
@pup1008 5 ай бұрын
@@whhammon You & I?
@brendapeter446
@brendapeter446 Ай бұрын
You should join if you can as you would be very welcome, learning some interesting things & meet some super folks!
@pup1008
@pup1008 Ай бұрын
@@brendapeter446 Thank you Brenda. It's just a very fine line between disagreeing & appearing disruptive & I think, with respect, the guy would have to have help from his god in countering my arguments as this is a field I know a lot about & we'd probably be stopping every couple of minutes on points of contention. Thank you for the invite though! 👍
@brendapeter446
@brendapeter446 Ай бұрын
@@pup1008 Alpha is designed for folks like you.
@keithjefferson2452
@keithjefferson2452 Жыл бұрын
My son in law....a bright guy ....got to session 6 and in answer to the following qn...."What do you think so far?".....replied......" I think I get ..but....Why did Jesus have to die?"
@ThePastorsHeart
@ThePastorsHeart Жыл бұрын
That’s the problem isn’t it. It’s very sad.
@colinjava8447
@colinjava8447 4 ай бұрын
He would have died anyway, from old age or disease or from falling down the stairs, so why not do that instead of a bloodthirsty sacrifice. But people die all the time, so why not just use one of those deaths instead? And why did he have to die at all, if god can do anything, then this is pointless. At the end of the day its all a load of bollox, I can't believe we are still discussing it in the 21st century.
@michaelbourke8421
@michaelbourke8421 Жыл бұрын
Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. Jesus said unless you repent you will all likewise perish. True biblical Repentance is a change of mind,turning toward God and fleeing from the wrath to come because it's not only God's Love but also His Holy and Just nature to punish sin. As king David penned in Psalm 51:3-4 For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me.Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. The gospel is straight forward, man's heart perverts the truth. If the Alpha course can't present a true gospel message, are people really being saved? If they are not really saved what are they receiving on the weekend away? On the day of pentecost peter preached, people were pricked in their heart and they all asked, what must I do to be saved? Acts 2:38 Repent, be baptised and receive the Holy Ghost Unity with church fellowships can only come by doctrineJjohn 17:17-21 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
@vaivapleckaitiene6209
@vaivapleckaitiene6209 Жыл бұрын
Lm
@vaivapleckaitiene6209
@vaivapleckaitiene6209 Жыл бұрын
Plovo Plovo
@marksandsmith6778
@marksandsmith6778 Жыл бұрын
Did he just say Slash the pastor's heart Yuk Even I'm not that bad?
@garethifan1034
@garethifan1034 11 ай бұрын
Christianity Explored is much better and more theologically balanced in my view. CE has Christ as pre-eminent, whereas the Alpha course has the Holy Spirit in Christ's role. One has to remember that the Spirit's role is to point to Christ, not to himself. I would not recommend Alpha for this reason. Also the 'second experience' (of the Holy Spirit) is very troubling and is just not what Acts 2 teaches. Another reason for not recommending.
@Cotswoldblonde
@Cotswoldblonde 4 ай бұрын
ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON. Mark and Avoid the Alpha course it is a Christless gospel.
@OldRomanTV
@OldRomanTV Жыл бұрын
Explains why I met a gay man who’d been through Alpha but who thought he didn’t need to change his lifestyle and thought he could get married…!
@coilnchamberlain6506
@coilnchamberlain6506 Жыл бұрын
Salvation as the Bible tells us is only through a person repenting of there sin and having faith by believing and trusting in the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; Romans 3:25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
@Cotswoldblonde
@Cotswoldblonde 4 ай бұрын
That is mixing works with His free gift of grace. Repent biblically is metanoia, not works repentance. Believe on the Lord - Jesus died on the cross as a propitation for our sins,was buried and was bodily raised/resurrected on the third day according to the scriptures. Its so simple.
@seantuaima
@seantuaima Ай бұрын
I don't really like the fact that no one contacts you ever, once you finish the course! you pretty much forgotten about once your complete the course and remain a non Christian.
@buyungadil1
@buyungadil1 3 жыл бұрын
That's the standard reaction from a non-charismatic, reformed perspective. But that's ok, we're all in Christ.
@chrisburton8079
@chrisburton8079 3 жыл бұрын
The Alpha course equals ecumenicalism to be avoided
@ThePastorsHeart
@ThePastorsHeart 3 жыл бұрын
Sadly. I think you are right.
@riverdonoghue9992
@riverdonoghue9992 2 жыл бұрын
Can you explain that please. Genuine question. Is it a theology course or something else.
@chrisburton8079
@chrisburton8079 2 жыл бұрын
@@riverdonoghue9992 it’s a introduction in to Christianity a Six week course I think I did it years ago it’s. Nicky Gumbell caused deeply floored
@Johlibaptist
@Johlibaptist 3 ай бұрын
The Alpha Course does not explain repentance fully or that Jesus's death saves sinners from a lost eternity. It plays down the judgement of God who will say to some, Depart from Me you cursed... Over the years it has been far more concessive to the Roman Catholic Church.
@williamstaffieri
@williamstaffieri 8 ай бұрын
Find a better use of your time such as going out and helping the poor and needy,or you might find yourselves with the goats! Sorry that is all the time I can waste.
@edkovaleski_actor
@edkovaleski_actor 5 ай бұрын
The Alpha Course is ecumenical and teaches hyper grace! If evangelical churches can be ONE and have communion with Catholic theology, they can also have communion with Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism! The theological problems are exactly the same!
@jennyclairewaite42
@jennyclairewaite42 Жыл бұрын
Just came off alpha week 2 No more for me ! No thanks I’m a fierce Christian 8 months born again It has an agenda & heading people to one world religion & order He’s in cahoots with pope Catholic Church and it’s taking people prr we pile d sad i out en slippery slope away from the truth of Christ It’s like warm and creates an emotional feeling and too worldly …‘Lord k it’s wot version Bible is used as I’m KJV only .. and it made me want to run from it !! I think we are at end days and it’s insipid message is too weak sorry I feel so strongly but I literally had a visceral reaction to it !
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