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I still wish that we would have a MAL equivalent for western animated shows and for other non-japanese eastern shows as well. It's insane how many good shows and movies go unnoticed every year from the wider audience due to lack of exposure and anime/manga elitism.

Thank you for doing a unique take on “is X anime?” by going into the different production philosophies of US, Japan, and Korea. I had heard about them in bits and pieces, but this is one of the most solid technical explanations targeted at layman I’ve seen on animation :).

when it first came out i genuinely thought scott pilgrim was synced to the japanese dub, just so weird to see the anime mouth flap approach to english voice acting. shows how much loose mouth flapping is associated with the anime approach to animating. i ended up watching it with the japanese dub anyway and it felt completely natural to me, absolutely an anime imo

Just to let people know that intersection and co-production happens more often than you think. One example Studio Trigger animating intros for other companies like Disney (Toy Story/Battlesaur) and Turner/Adult swim (Black Dynamite S2). For other shows and movies looking like the way they do, they shouldn't be blamed for taking inspiration from each other. At the end of the day it's all animation.

And lets not forget the irony of some Chinese animation studios or "donghua" outsourcing their animation to Japanese studios because it's cheaper for them. Or game studios like Mihoyo with Genshin Impact effectively capitalizing the "anime" aesthetic in a scale that surpasses any Japanese studio.

To add in on mouth flap thing The whole reasons why Japanese side prefer it is actually the deadline point that you said in 5:22. Since in the west they release their season in batches they actually have the time to put in and work of lips syncing while in the Japanese side the moment you finish episode that thing is going on air straight away so their deadline is SUPER tight to keep up with it, so with lips syncing taking a heck of alot of time and manpower to do it properly that's the first thing they cut out saving time do more importaint part or (sometime and) setting up storyboard and doing the next episode right away. Not only that VC is done in 1 SINGLE DAY with ALL of the cast inside a single recording booth with their audio director and record the entier script of a episode in 1 DAY while in the west recording day are generally space out evenely between cast with 1 or 2 cast member recording per day so that too is a part of why they prefer mouth flap TL;DR: Japanese media deadline is WAY too tight so they do mouth flap to cut down time and budget to get episodes on air as fast as possible

maybe the real anime is the friends we made along the way

Great video! As a lifelong anime fan I've seen the anime landscape and fandom change over the years ever since the mid-90s. There was a time where anime was referred to as Japanimation. It was a very niche, sci-fi (in the US) based and adult targeted thing until the late 90s when it got more widespread attention due to Dragonball Z, Pokemon and the then new Disney distribution of Studio Ghibli films beginning with Kiki's Delivery Service and Princess Mononoke and has grown in popularity ever since. The later 2000s seemed to be when the debate over what was considered anime kinda started to me due to especially Avatar The Last Airbender. I recall the arguments and flame wars about it during that time. It seems to have cooled down at this point to become more like what you talked about in this video.

I can't believe this ancient debate is _still_ going on. I actually can, but still, damn.

I find interesting how these types of partly geolocational distinction are formed. Animation is not the only form of media where it happens, but its definitely one that has the most heated arguments about it. Movie industry has Hollywood movies and Bollywood movies among other things. There are the Nordic Detective Thrillers, British comedy shows and Korean drama. Of course K-pop is a huge thing right now. Japan and US have just been better than average at flexing their massive soft power influence than many other countries.

I think it would be great to get an insight into the history of anime in terms of the production and business side. I live in Europe where many don’t know how many "normal cartoons" from the 60s, 70s and 80s were outsourced to Japan for production. I really enjoyed this peek into what goes on behind the scenes, thanks for sharing!

In my opinion it’s about the feel you get from it. Japan and the West have different cultures, different humours, different norms, etc. I consider anime just Japanese cartoons with the distinctive anime style. So if it feels Japanese, (whether it was made in Japan or by a Japanese studio, or for a Japanese audience or not) then it’s anime, if it feels western, then it’s animation in the anime style. Because of this, imo, Scott Pilgrim is not an anime, because the feel you get from it feels western, despite having an anime style and being quite stylised, it still feels different from anime. Ofc this is a difficult ‘definition’ as it may vary from person to person the feel they get from it and ofc it’s a blurred line.

I appreciate your chill KZfaq personality, so many other KZfaqrs try to come off as so damn quirky it just comes off annoying and disingenuous. You also have a sense of humor I haven't heard very much and it was very refreshing

It is funny when we talk TMS, who created some genuine Japanese-American co-productions like the Mighty Orbots and Little Nemo (although TMS was the only company behind Little Nemo's production). Transformers G1 was made in a similar way with Americans and Japanese behind the pre production storyboards, directing and character design, and even had some episodes aired in Japan first but it can't be on MAL because if Americans and Japanese share creative roles then it's presumed that the Japanese staff are subordinate.

20:27 I genuinely think adding a co-production category is a good solution to some shows not being included where much of their animation is produced in Japan. Still kind of miffed about Cyberpunk Edgerunners being included in MAL's database, but not Scott Pilgrim, since they're in the same boat. As for what I propose anime should refer to: Anime is animation *primarily* handled by a Japanese studio, as in, the main studio must be based in Japan. Sure, Scott Pilgrim's director is Spanish--but he's worked at Science Saru since its early days! Which is why I don't think the ethnicity of an individual staff member should matter too much, just as long as that studio they're working at is... you guessed it, based in Japan.

Very well said. I'm writing from Japan now and people say komikku more than manga and "Amerika no anime" is just common everyday phrasing for American cartoons. The idea that "anime" is particularly "Japanese," as you rightly point out, is less about some distinct cultural essence that rubs off on the screen and more about nationalism in Japan and Orientalism in the purported West. As you explain brilliantly, it's also simply not the case from the point of view of labour, distribution, or audience. And, with something like Batman: The Animated Series, it's not just that a lot of the animation was done in Japan, but just in common parlance, it's "バットマンのアニメ" because it's a cartoon.

your videos go above and beyond on the analysis. thanks

One of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to what is "anime" when it comes to "Western" (God, I hate this term) works is that any show with stylized realistic character designs or anything with any sort of visual flare or a focus on storytelling is AUTOMATICALLY considered anime or anime inspired when it isn't. Doesn't help that so many platforms or sites call these shows anime or anime inspired for some reason. For example 2003 TMNT is a show that focused heavily on storytelling and seasonal arcs but all of those arcs come from the original Mirage Comics, and the art style reflects that. So I'm left pondering what's "anime" about it. I feel like some people label these shows "anime" because a lot of anime fans have an aversion and animosity towards anything American or "Western." Movies, TV shows, video games, but animation and comics seem to get the most hatred. So when they find a animated show that they like, Arcane, Invincible, Blue Eye Samurai, etc they find roundabout ways of calling them anime to cope with watching a non Japanese cartoon. I don't like calling these shows anime because it implies that something needs to be deemed "anime" in order for it have any sort of artistic value or merit. For me those shows are cartoons but when people hear cartoons, they think childish, goofy, immature, but when they hear anime, it means profound, deep, mature.

Its all so weird because this feels like a very american anime fans debate. Here in europe, the vast majority of people would identify that show as anime. There's a ton of anime highly inspired or based on western media in one way or another. If porco rosso and lupin are anime why not Scott pilgrim? This criteria of "it must be marketed towards a jp audience" doesnt fit many shows on MAL, and is so arbitrary in the first place. It just all feels like some weeaboo admins gatekeeping culture.

Honestly, this is going to sound flippant, but the way that MAL's administration and userbase tends to handle these sorts of nontroversies is part of why I don't use that site, and I think it's symptomatic of a bigger problem with certain segments of the Anglophone anime fandom where what is or is not "anime" becomes a proxy for weird internecine culture war posturing and pretentious medium gatekeeping. I think it is more than reasonable to state that the approach to animation which comes out of the Japanese anime production pipeline is particular and distinctive and has a unique appeal, but the argument here has nothing to do with whether or not Scott Pilgrim Takes Off comes out of that pipeline or speaks to that unique appeal, which it does on both counts, but as a nonsense shibboleth for whether or not certain people, or really certain kinds of people, are "real" anime fans or not, and that's just bullshit.

All the best to you and your family, what a great channel you have created here. I hope you can get some rest over the holidays.

Animation has very much become an multinational business over the decades, that goes for both american, japanese and european animation.

Fantastic video. So glad you mentioned the Korean connection with anime. It really muddies the definition of "anime".

If the production/creation & funding is centered around a Japanese Company/Group then it's *"ANIME"* If it isn't, then is just *"ANIME INSPIRED"* Simple as that, no need to think hard. Doesn't matter if the *"Anime Inspired"* got some outsourced production from Japan & Korea, it's still Inspired since the people pushing for the creation & funding it aren't from Japan. The term has evolved and been used by every Overseas Otaku community for more than 4 decades now. Especially here in South East Asia. If it's originally from actual Japanese from Japan, then it's Anime, anything else is either Western Cartoons or whatever the Koreans and Chinese made. There's also the *"SOURCE MATERIAL"* route, the *"ANIME"* we see from Japan aren't just Original Animations. Those titles have Manga, Novel, & Visual Novel source materials.

I really appreciate you doing a light grazing into the deeper socio-political / socio-economical structures that make the anime industry possible and how these underlying structures of production exist in stark contrast to how 'anime' as a global cultural force is understood by the general populace / zeitgeist. Hoping that there will be more talk about the hidden international labor that goes into maintaining the general historical narrative of 'anime' in the coming days. thank you so much for weighing in and bringing a spotlight to this lesser discussed aspect of the industry.

Hey Stevem, very insightful video as always. Are there any plans to make a video on Hayao Miyazaki's Future Boy Conan series? Would love to hear your take and thoughts as well as a discussion on the motifs and influences this had on Miyazaki's later works. Take care!

Same reason this isnt an anime is the same reason Avatar isn't one. Yeah they stylistically are inspired by anime, but the idea originates from someone outside of japan and japanese culture so its not an authentic anime in my opinion.

Corey in the House is my favorite Anime

Anime is about a muddied a definition as JRPG at this point

You can avoid the ship of theseus problem easily. National origin of any given Creator doesn't matter, it's just the end product and its qualities that matters for the classification. Anime is a movement with a collection of attributes. You don't need them all, the cut off is arbitrary just like if we were talking about whether a work fits a certain genre (a movement isn't a genre, I am only drawing a comparison). And like a genre these attributes that determine whether it's included (in the movement) would change over time.

To be honest Scott Pilgrim looks like an american cartoon to me. Also, Anime is not just defined by the character desing, is also the way they tell stories. Most American cartoons are comedies or at least the comedy is a big factor of the show, while Anime covers a wider range of genres. And there is also the different demographies, cartoons tend to be made for kids or for adults while, for example, shonen Anime can be enjoyed by adults.

Nailing down the definition of anime has been so hard because there are actually two words called "anime" - the Japanese version (a noun) and the Western derivation of it (an adjective). The derivation refers to the so-called "anime aesthetic", something anime academics have vehemently said does not exist. If a work embodies elements of many Japanese animated works from a certain period - very roughly mid 90s to late 00s, when anime was establishing its international presence - it can be "Anime" (adjective). Even a literary work can be "Anime" because of how characters interact, or how action scenes are choreographed and described.

I know DreamWorks’ more recent films and all of Illumination’s films are coproduced (not just outsourced, but actually coproduced) by Japanese company Toho (the Godzilla people, who also made Your Name.). Toho coproduces most of Universal and Paramount’s films since 2009, but there have been earlier collabs like Children of Men, Zack Snyder’s Dawn of the Dead, AKIRA, and King Kong vs. Godzilla. Cats 2019 was also an animated film (done with motion capture like Advent Children), and Toho also coproduced it, so it’s also an anime. Studio Ghibli also collabed on a French movie called The Red Turtle, so it can also be considered an anime.

5:01 one more thing: I think the differentiation between anime and the rest of the world on the basis of "limitations" is kinda useless. Especially when later the walk cycles, camera pans and other recycled sequences are mentioned. "Anime, unlike Disney, uses limited animation" even back then was a bit of a stretch, since by the '60s EVERYONE was using limited animation: Hanna-Barbera, McLaren, Zagreb, Poland, even Disney decided to take some notes from the UPA. Same goes for the "realism vs impressionism" angle: the shorts presented on the international film festivals debunk that claim and place it along the "cartoons are episodic, anime is serialised" shtick.

Them: Its not the same ship as it's not the same as before. Douglas Adams, upon seeing the Gold Pavilion Temple: Theseus is a bitch.

"It's created by professional staff in Japan for the Japanese market" Now a days Mal is full of Chinese animation and even some South Koreans. I wonder why did they decided to accept the chinese cartoons as anime but no from other countries?? is china paying them?

The Rick and Morty Anime is coming in 2024. A few anime shorts for R&M already exist of course so the "discussion" will go on. Wikipedia editors settled on SC 2023 being an anime. I participated in that Talk page. Suck in MAL and it is the 196th highest-rated anime on ANN as of today. Edit: Is MAL a bigger database than ANN? It has MUCH more active forums but no way do they have as much info/database entries and industry reach.

I guess you can say that this is a "No true SCOTTSman" scenario

Friendly reminder that *Pingu in the City* is an anime

I honestly don't like MAL for reasons like this, still stuck in the American Oldtaku cultural mindset, when even back in the day as you've said it's been an international animation style for decades at this point.

Cool video! Thanks for the shout out!

If Scott Pilgrim isn't anime, what's Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt? The word is so culturally and categorically vague that even Batman the animated series clears for me. I love me semantics but this is that kind of semantic debate that if you manage to gather the council of GOATS and get a final verdict on what or what isn't, what does it do to the content that was made? Nothing really. Animation = Anime = Using drawings real smart-like, all of it and the blur it has become is awesome and that's all that matters. That being said, AI animation is not anime and I think we can all culturally agree on that. Good meeting.

If it's not from Japan, its not anime.

The only reason why Anime has an "Identity" is to culturally ingrain the expectation of Cheap Production -> Big Profits. The "Identity" doesn't even hold its traditional tropes sacred, japanese authors that largely use western influences are often celebrated for it.

I thought this type of question died somewhere around 2010 ish.

Man I do love category debates! The problem with tying in the word with a particular method of creating animated productions, especially one essentially based around cost-cutting measures, is that there is a good chance that in a few decades most animated productions made in Japan will no longer be "anime". (Imagine taking human-made /8s and filling in the gaps with AI generated images to produce 60fps animation; that might become popular.) That's fine as it goes but I doubt people will stop using the word anime just because what they are watching isn't technically that at all any more. For example, Taiwanese puppets get treated the same as real anime by a lot of the people who are watching it. Anime the word is going to eventually become orders of magnitude bigger than anime the method or style. It's just quicker to say than "animation" too.

I hope the West comes at least close to the quality level of Anime sometime in history, Spiderverse showed a little study of true animation that they learned from the land of animation that is Japan, but only a little, Puss in boots, Invincible, Arcane, etc etc, even with some anime animators, still have to learn a lot, especially storytelling, script, soundtrack and animation of course.

Specificall talking about MAL. It is kinda wierd why MAL still haven't included Scott Pilgrimon their list though. When we have multiple projects of the same nature already listed on MAL dayone of their announcement. Like Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Star wars Visions, Altered Carbon ankme, Blade Runner anime etc. Etc. It feels like somebody in Mal is specifically ignoring Scott Pilgrim

this video's title should be "MAL's Anime Problem"

For me, if the animation is subcontracted by an American, it is cartoon and that's it. Anime is written, directed and animated by Japanese people, from their perspective. Lucasfilms and Warnern asked Japanese animators to make animations about Starwars and The Matrix, that is anime as long as foreigners do not intervene in the direction, especially in the scriptwriting and development of characters. More than the definition of anime or cartoon, people with experience in watching anime, they can differentiate something that is anime from something that is not, the kiss at the beginning, so vulgar and unfunny, you would never see it in anime, for a Japanese a kiss has a greater meaning or is irrelevant, its exceptions is that it is part of a central mechanic in the story, a type of genre that uses it abundantly such as Shojo or it is part of adult content. People have defined anime as Japanese idiosyncrasy and that cannot be imitated. Scott Pilgrim is not anime, what genre is it? If it were Shonen then the kiss is out of place. It's not even based on the title character, it's another woke deconstruction that is destined for the packs of Twitter and other hate forums. This video is like that idea of the radical Transsexual and Non-binary groups of trying to appropriate the term woman, preventing it from being defined as a person with XX chromosomes.🙃

The difference boils down to the difference between American comics and Japanese manga. Different genres, different tropes, different history and different traditions. The style of anime actually originated in America as Ozamu Tezuka famously stated that the big eyes came from Western cartoons and similarly the lighting and shading came from old Superman and other similar classic western cartoons. Anime and manga are basically a fusion of western and eastern traditions which produces something unique, just as Fist of the North Star stands on its own as a unique story even though it is heavily influenced by Mad Max. Or how cyberpunk originated in the West but became a dominant part of anime and manga stories which again are a unique blend of traditions. And of course one only need to look at how different My Hero Academia is from western superhero comics.

I have actually had this discussion not so long ago about whether or not shows like Castelvania and Avatar The Last Airbender should be considered anime. I will admit the lines have become blurred as time has gone on. I would definitely consider something like BIG-O season two to be anime even though it was produced specifically for the Cartoon Network. I can think of several co-productions that seem to straddle the line between western animation and Jpanese anime that make it harder and harder to nail down what the definition of anime truly is.

It's nice to be able to click on a Director and see what else they have worked on, but MAL Denies you that privilege with their strict definitions on the medium. Even Wikipedia has a bit of an issue with "obscure stuff" that editors don't think belong on Wikipedia.

I figured if moomins counted as anime(which is on MAL) then theres really no reason scott pilgrim shouldnt be on there. though I suppose you could argue your 3rd point in that situation that moomins was mostly catered for a japanese audience where scott pilgrim I would say not quite as much.

So nice that Steven's mom is supporting his Patreon

For me it's pretty simple, story, dialogue and characters are very easily recognizable as western or anime. Scott Pilgrim's story and humour is very distinctly western, even if the production involves japanese workers or the artstyle is inspired in anime. An opposite example would be Cyberpunk Edgerunners, created to promote a game made by a polish developer based on an american tabletop game, it was produced by Studio Trigger which is heavily influenced and inspired by western animation yet the final product is a story and characters that feel very much like your usual japanese anime. It works for me and I bet it unconsciously works well for many others, if being able to tell when something is "anime" or not is difficult then the answer is watch more shows so you can decide yourself. Ultimately liking a show for what it does is the only true merit you can measure, wasting time discussing on online forums where the opinion of people who only watched studio Ghibli films and the dude who binges 8 shit shows every season is taken as equally valid is pointless, and trying to bring a strict ruleset of perfectly logical tests to a vastly creative medium as animation wont bear any result.

When I think of Anime, first thing that comes to my mind are the OVAs, shows, that were released in the 80s - 90s and perhaps late 2000s

Is it anime? Is it even an issue... the real reason this is even being argued in modern times is cause people just want call what ever they want "anime" to make it _cooler_ in their eyes, like they tried to do with Avatar Last Air Bender and Steven Universe.

MAL has such a toxic mindset from its user base and mod team. I've tried to engage with that community over the years but came up with just terrible interaction after terrible interaction. I moved over to one of the MAL competitors AniList and never looked back.

I would say Oban star racers was also an early example of a blurred line of anime. but that said despite a lot of the staff being from Europe as well as the property the show was produced in japan. the European team having moved to japan to sell the idea to a Japanese animation studio and work on the show with the studio. Have you ever done an episode about Oban Star racers its a pretty fascinating story how it got made.

NO THIS ISNT ANIME!

personally, to know the line between "anime" and "cartoons" is... well.. culture... is kappa mikey an anime because "it takes place in japan"? is cowboy bebop a cartoon because it "is based on the wild west"? well no, they are the perspecive of one culture through the lens of another. it is also the tropes that each culture created seperately. this is why you can call "cyberpunk edgerunner" an anime , but "scott pilgrim" a cartoon, even they were made by the same studio (i mean not the animations that i mentioned but let's say in a hypothetical scenario) it's the vision that differenciates the two art forms. this is why you correctly called chinese "anime" 'donghua', beacause (for all intents and purposes) IS a different culture. still closer culturally with japan, but still different.

I just know you saw the utter mess that My Anime List did and the stupid excuses the mods made to not include Scott Pilgrim on their site.

I love the idea of a co production category bc for yrs i would catch glimpses of DR Movie in practically EVERY anime on adult swim and many other places and I'd always assumed they were japanese (and before I figured they were animators I assumed they were some other part of production: sound, timing, etc) and now I revere them knowing they do a TON of the animation work but they're based in Korea

2:40 I think this is where you can say it isnt. Its definitely made for an american audience. I think its less of where the money is being made, and just more the intent. Sure, anime makes money internationally more than domestically, but the target audience is usually the japanese audience, just an international audience happens to also enjoy it. 8:02 well that was a long time ago, things change. I would say that western animation in general has taken a lot of inspiration from japanese animation, but that doesnt make it anime. 10:24 ok youre talking about this like its still cell animated. Everything is digital these days. I get that its like a style thing but idk its not like these people are limited in that way, they are consciously making this decision. Does it make it anime or does it make it more anime-styled? 11:30 I dont know you can definitively say that just from that clip. Its not exactly a scientific definition but it just gives off too many western vibes to really be anime, like its a western show that mimics anime, not an anime itself.

I'm just glad Necry Talkie got on an Anamanaguchi soundtrack. 💛

Man, your videos keep getting better and better. You know what pissed me off about MAL. The only time they put a western anime and manga on their site is if it’s a French manga that got an anime adaptation in Japan and the manga is also sold in Japan. My Anime List is elitism and bias for series that isn’t Japanese or even French. I guess if your foreign series isn’t a hit in Japan it doesn’t count as Japanese oof

My favotite video essay on the topic is Ken Lauderdale's What Even Is Anime? It is nothing but an excuse to show the insane variety of japanese animatiion and their influences in all animation. Its a fun rug pull, but he literally talks about the same 'ticks the boxes...but does it?' tyoe features, and even talks about productions that were woefully mismanaged so as not to have animation, but slide shows accompanying video of the rad motorcycle the director bought with the film funds. Etc. Fun stuff.

If it was made in Japan, and/or primarily by Japanese people, it's anime. If it's neither of those things, it's not anime. Just because something LOOKS like what anime looks like doesn't make it anime. Nobody has a monopoly on stylistic choices.

I saw this post once, that I believe was probably intended to be a joke, but I completely agree with it It said that because Italian westerns are called "spaghetti westwens" Anime that is written and directed and voice acted in the states should be called "Cheeseburger anime" Shows like the boondocks, avatar, and Scott Pilgrim I think that's a nice compromise because you can have it both ways. Sure, maybe It's anime, but with a big astrisk I think this conversation also reveals what someone prioritizes in filmmaking, which isn't a bad thing but I think that's where some of the disagreements are coming from. People who primarily care about the animation and not the storytelling will say that a show like Scott Pilgrim or Avatar should be anime because it looks and feels like anime, whereas people who are more interested in the writing side of a particular peice of art will look at the fact that some of these shows are written directed voice acted and storyboarded in America and not see it as such

The thing I took away from the soft power point is that Aardman should be shipping plasticine to the commonwealth. My brain is broken

I haven't seen other people discuss this, but another dictinction i find when comparing japanese and western cartoons is eye contact. A lot of anime have designs that use the super big moé bug eye style for characters, which is both a way to increase cuteness and neoteny but also a clever way to save on animation budget. Erises that huge don't look in any particular direction and can seem like theyre looking everywhere at once, so a lot of japanese animators struggle to draw characters outside of the bug eyed style. I notice this especially when watching anime with a simpler art style, particularly astro boy 80s and 2003. Simple cartoon eyes are more focused and rely on eye contact to look believeable, but since the animators likely aren't used to drawing eyes like that, they often look dead-eyed and seem like theyre staring into space. This goes back to how japanese animators struggle to adapt to a style. Of course some studios dont suffer from this problem, like for example trigger who embrace the simplicity of their drawings and animation, but its always been a pet peeve for me whenever i watch some anime

I remember The Real Ghostbusters and first season of Transformers being very anime-like in visuals and production. As opposed to quite so many shows which were animated in Japan but tried not to look like it.

praying the plushie campaign turns out successful it goes so hard

The line is hard to draw here for anime. Avatar might not be called anime, nor are the stop motion holiday specials of Rankin-Bass.

New STEVEM? It's like Christmas came early this year !

A wise man once asked "What even is... anime" and proceeded to identify some anime

There is a part of your video that caught my attention that implies that Japanese will not copy other styles because they draw and animate like Japanese do. Like the Korean guy saying that while Koreans can adapt to other styles, Japanese will stick to their style. It's fascinating how Japanese stick to their style not because they are incapable of doing other styles, but because they can. I mean, they don't need to draw in a different way nor they have to. So, the Koreans take that other part of the market share that pertains to adapt to other styles. It's like a merit that Japanese have inherited, and also its a limitation. People want them to draw anime, so they deliver anime.

Also french anime, french did create their own brand of anime , that is clearly anime style but unique. I would cite watfu thats, based on a french game kinda, and even has, its very anime. (french dub)

Merry Christmas, everyone.

Stevem I am so 100% serious when I say that I want that plush so badly.. No disposable income right now but if you ever relaunch this campaign in the near future I will FOR SURE be there, money in hand. Never stop doing what you're doing, I've been following your channel for years and I will continue to support it as much as I possibly can :D

well thanks for addressing one of those major things said in that other guy's video arguing we need to do away with classifications terms entirely , that's just fucking stupid no classification terms is how we communicate as biological beings with intelligence.....

I just finished watching the series last night so this video is perfect timing actually. And Scott Pilgrim takes off is so clearly an anime I'm so flabbergasted that mal thinks it's not. I love this video for being a much more technical deep dive. One thing I've noticed through this is the divide between normal lay-persons and internet gatekeeping goblins. Most normal people I talk to just look at something and say "hey that's anime" while people, that I don't think have the right to, push up their glasses, utter "well actually" under their breath and continue to divide Western fan bases. Once again I thank you for making the latter look dumber and dumber with each new example.

see, I think part of the problem with "who was the show made For" debate is like. there's animation made for The West, and then there's animation made Specifically To Appeal To Western Anime Fans. it's true that scott pilgrim is based on a western media franchise, but it feels Arbitrary to ignore the fact that it's clearly trying to appeal to Fans Of Anime. to ignore the scott pilgrim has had an anime influence from its inception. scott pilgrim takes off was created because the comic creator wanted to make an anime, which is inherently different from someone wanting to make a show and outsourcing the production to japan. but people don't really seem interested in engaging with that distinction.

Anime this, anime that. I'd rather just call it Japanese animation or Japanese animation inspired 😆

8:06 what anime is that with the red suited girl on the speeder?

He's kind of brimming with this, animal-like sensuality, maybe because he looks like a werewolf(?). I have this _"subconsciously-want-to-pull-his-hair"_ kind of feeling, looking and listening to him.

Hi steve, great video i just have one question: do you think china or donghua is going to eclipse anime as whole? Like some legends in the anime industry believe. Happy 2024🎉

One time I said on r/anime Avatar is an anime because the art style and story beat is so typical to classic Japanese cartoons, I got berated endlessly

Can anyone tell me what this animation is from at 1:45? When I was a kid, I remember seeing some old animations that really stuck in my head. One of these was the ending scenes of Nausicaa, which I eventually found when they re-released the movie on dvd. But there is one animation from my memory that I could never find. From what I can remember, it was about a boy with a sword and his growing company of allies. At one point, he visits an ice castle and meets a witch or queen. She give him a crystal orb, and then later, he fights a fire demon. He is unable to harm the demon, but when all seems lost he remembers the orb he was given. Touching his sword to the orb, his blade is enchanted with ice and he is able to vanquish the fire demon. This has been a memory stuck in my head for decades, and the animation here reminds me of this scene. I'm dying to know what it is called.

When you buy an iPhone you don’t say you have a Chinese phone do you? Like you said in art there is overlap, so how you categorize certain borderline works will always be subjective. Some things are obvious and genre defining, but sometimes the lines are just too blurred. Hell the cyberpunk anime is a great example too.

Yeah... Mothers Basement is not a really good source of info on anime. He's good at OPs but that's about it.

11:00 that Spriggan movie is kind of nuts, I have a DVD of it. The intro section was like a disney movie for adults and the action was slick. I must say it was a bit long, but I do appreciate how bonkers it is lol.

It was interesting vid after slightly boring Ghibli marathon. Looking forward for other vids in the same vein

The outcome of the Second Sino-Japanese War determined whether Genshin Impact can be called an "anime game" or not. Because if Japan had won, Shanghai would be part of the Japanese Empire, so of course, Genshin would be an anime game. But because of political developments, it's not allowed to be called such. This is the stupid, illogical argument of those who say we can only use it for things from Japan. Anime is primarily a certain tradition, and (closely following) secondarily an artstyle. Things like Genshin are both in the tradition of anime, and also in the same artstyle (this also explains how there can be medium crossing "anime" titles, like anime gacha, anime music videos, etc., instead of just cartoons). Things like High Guardians Spice (the Crunchyroll original cartoon) are neither: neither was it made in the tradition, nor in the artstyle. Now, I could define "tradition", but this is already too long for a YT comment. But in brief, for things like High Guardian Spice, it has TOO MUCH other influence (generic CalArts American cartoons), whereas for things like Genshin or other Korean and especially Chinese offerings, the influence is almost purely Japanese anime/manga. Thus, they are in the tradition to a much higher degree; and importantly, they are in the tradition ENOUGH that you can say they match the label. Of course, the same logic applies to the artstyle. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, etc. You can quite visualize it like a tree, with the Chinese/Korean/a few other examples, all primarily branching off the main anime tree, whereas the same is not true for vaguely anime-esque titles like Avatar: The Last Airbender. They don't branch off as a direct child. At best they are somewhat inspired by it.

I always say to my non anime watching friend that its about the feel if you watch any american cartoon and Japanese anime , anime feel some what emotional some times the line becomes blur eg adventure time arcane avatar etc etc but mostly yeah

This entire MAL fiasco reminds me of so many arguments about 'is X manga?' I've had in the past. Art is transcendent of nationality, french Jazz is just as much Jazz as american, as well as Vallendusk is just as legitamentally black metal as any Norwegian group even if they're from indonesia. However, you cannot ignore the reasoning behind how the two developed and why they are so uniquely different. The america of the 30 and 40s, there were two distinct mediums of sequential art: comic strips and comic books. In that time comic strips were rhe highly vaulted position that most comic book artists hoped to acheive while comic books, origianlly just collections of comic strips for easy digestion, were looked at as a lesser medium. Because of this distinction, the comic book tended to have what we'd call the 'pulp' style, realistic depictions with vary little stylization. Comic strips, however, were where full expression was allowed. You'd have strips like prince valient and the spirit which looked no different than any comic book while you'd also have popeye and the peanuts which were innately cartoony while there were surrealist work like fritz the cat and little nemo. Jack Kirby was one of the first real stylists in comic books when he entered the scene but stylism only took root during the 80s and 90s. Its why whenever you listen to one of the old comic artists like Kirby or Ditko they'd never call themselves comic book artists but cartoonists. Cartoonist back then had weight. Manga, however, never had this clear distinction. Being influenced by disney and scrooge mcduck, that pulp art and cartoonist art melded together into a style uniquely itself. Its why manga backgrounds are so hyper detailed while their character models have such simple yet distinct designs. Goku uses more techniques used by Charles Schultz than John Romita did. Don't get me wrong, one isnt innately better than the other and it pisses me off to no end that manga and anime are placed on this pedastol of Quality. The Maxx is just as rich in psychological trauma as Evangelion but because one was made by someone with an english name its seen as less sophisticated. But if you dont understand why each came to be and you try to emulate one, you'll end up making something thats neither. Fred Durst wanted to blend both Heavy Metal and Hip Hop into one genre but because he didn't fully understand the reasoning and tradition of either, we ended up with Nu-metal. Dont make Nu-metal. Outside of, like, three bands, it mostly sucks.

Thanks for also mentioning the Filipino animators. There are a lot of them working in anime productions as well as Western cartoons.

I dont know if this making sense, but my way on how to differentiate anime and cartoon, it always start on the creative line, creator, director, producer and for me the most important the animatic director. If the these position is filled by western influence its a cartoon, but if it filled by japanese influence its a anime. I dont particular like anime style of storyboarding, like how they decide the body language for the character. So when i saw Scott Pilgrim, i really doesnt go well with me.