o7

welcome to the club of people who should go play COD, BF, PUBG and R6 because squad isnt the game for us even though i have played it for 2k hours

@@yaboydafish6460 I like how you admitted in your post that there are 4 games you could name off the top of your head that suit your taste, but you're still mad that a niche fanbase which supported this game since before its release is getting what they want instead of yet another game that suits your much more mainstream taste

@@CrizzyEyes no there the names of games that my comments on youtube tell me to play. also lets forget about everyone who has played squad for squad and only listen to the people who wanted it to be another PR, sounds like a great idea

@@yaboydafish6460 Have you considered that you might actually like the changes to the game or are you just going to be mad pre-emptively?

I feel like if they keep tweaking the aiming to be a bit less "How do I use a gun again!?", but keep the heavy suppression and maybe increase how being suppressed effects your ability to aim and fire back, they'll hit a nice sweet spot. One of my biggest annoyances in Squad was that it was so easy for people to just behave in ways that no one would in real life. They could be under fire from a tank and MG's and just calmly pop up on a rocket and shoot the MG, then walk away. You kind of have to force the threat of dying on people when you're in a game where it's just an easy respawn. I compare it to my time playing Tarkov, where the risk of losing all of my stuff I'd spend money on and collected across the map made me so much more cautious than I would otherwise have been if I was able to just go "Eh, whatever, I'll just respawn".

I'm overall supportive of the idea of these changes, but it is discouraging when a lot of the discussion is drowned out by people whose arguments don't develop past "old Squad is a Cod clone" and "Squad needs to be just like PR." I'm worried that a breakdown in communication will result in the argument for this update being defined by PR-only people who hate Squad and obviously don't play it, while the voice against the update are the majority of people who actually play Squad silently voicing their frustrations in the feedback survey. And this could kill the update. I want this update to be a good thing for Squad because of I love Squad. But for it to succeed it needs to be defined by actual Squad players, not these PR outsiders who are trying to hijack the conversation.

yeah a lot of people seem to think soldiers never run in combat and that if they do they just end up missing all their shots.

@@HawooAwoo i can all shush to your concerns and get the point, agree or disagree to some points but saying ''pr outsiders''? Bro that outsiders PLAYED with some of the fucking squad devs in PR for years. What munch are you on ffs? Get out.

@@HawooAwoo Anyone who calls people "cod kids" should be fucking publicly shamed, it's such an old and trite argument and I'm baffled that it's still so commonly used and accepted as tangible criticism. It reminds me of 2011 when I was a kid and tried to make arguments online about CoD vs Battlefield 3 back when that was an actual competition. It's incredibly reductive and childish and we would be better off if every single person who used it as an actual argument was completely tuned out.

Flipping between the two would be nice.

A toggle would be best. The map can get so cluttered sometimes.

I don't think the issue is that people don't want it. I think its just hard to implement.

@@AvWoN Oh yeah because Arma 2 was so hard to make for Bohemia.

@@weasle2904 I am sure it was.

Squad is simulating the “Force XXI Battle Command Brigade and Below” map (FBCB2) is a Linux-based communication platform designed for commanders to track friendly and hostile forces on the battlefield.

You know what works great in the field a topographic map you know so u can see hills lol

@@Group_Anonymous i dont see the point in caring about realism for the map considering that at any time you can bring up an overlay on your screen to see it

@@boinqity4621 The F...in' Way She Goes

it literally takes 30 minutes to throw the map into blender and make a shader with stripes

I’ve personally been mostly playing Galactic Contention; the starship troopers and zombies mods cause the base game has been so annoying. Not getting one taped by peekers will be so nice.

I have being playing lately squad and things you're Talking about been annoying me too, took part in the beta test and man, once you play it, you don't want to come back

Not worth the $49.99 asking price, thats a fact.

@@lemoncake9385 agree, Worth about 20$ more

@@lemoncake9385 depends on your concept of value; i play casually and have still dunk over a hundred hours in it over the course of like a year or two; it’s the perfect game if you work long hours to just have a single match every day or so.

its a shame this update has ruined all those qualities lol

@@darthsaint7743 PIP scopes = no more ggs + your gpu fried + ranking system + battle pass :'(

Wait, you don't get new skins after finishing a mission in the Army? WTH, why would anyone want to do it then?

I totaly agree. I think it is a future __must have__.

Like a bunch of old blind people or african militants shooting at each other. They'll have to give all MG kits double the amount of ammo now because half of it is going to miss.

​@@izakgriebenouw7195literally all you have to do is manage stamina and properly brace the weapon and it's accurate. It's not even an accuracy Nerf, you just have to not run and gun lone wolf. It just rewards proper tactics and squad gameplay.

@@izakgriebenouw7195 Good. Most firefights last entire days, with thousands of rounds used, and minimal casualties. Vietnam it was was like 10,000 rounds per one casualty.

@@izakgriebenouw7195just a little racist but ima let it slide this time

Thats the issue, spectacles arent replayable. Once the novelty wears off it will be normal old Squad, except it will be aids to play. Mark my words

What? Soldiers who don't know how to hold their guns and control recoil?

@@livingcoffee_edits yeah that's totally the only take away from this update is "rECOiL BaD" get over it

@@zenzibar28 Get over something that is unrealistic and completely changes the game?

@@livingcoffee_edits I spam heli so personally I couldn't care less lmao

@@livingcoffee_edits Whatever it takes to punish the current run,gun,die,respawn loop that most casual players are doing. If this helps with improving teamwork, then i am all for it.

I never liked those roles before, but now they're crucial. To be fair, I've only gotten a handful of "kills" in-game, mostly it's spraying in their general direction without ever knowing if anything hit. Might as well take that all the way and be useful to the team

hopefully it doesnt break any mod

​@@ashtonblake2001I imagine most weapons will need editing, at least for scopes

@@christophernoneya4635 yeah

Just thinking about the Starshiptrooper mod. Wound be fun getting suppressed by plasma bombardment.

​@@Valkyrie_Yukikazeoh god thats already chaotic this will just amplify it even more :b

It will probably come out in the next two months at the latest. There are also a couple more playtests in the pipeline to test changes.

these changes make 556 look like 308

Squad was never "run and gun" to begin with, unless you consider games like arma 3 and dayz run and gun because that is how squad has always played to me.

​@@rell0223it has recently aided the playstyle you say it doesn't have, if everyone else knows it but you, you aren't seeing the forest for the trees

@@Chowder322 it goes to far and becomes not only unrealistic, but from a game designers POV, incredibly poor game design. It has solved a problem by creating an even greater amount of problems. If people want to keep circlejerking over these changes that is fine, I will continue to be the lone voice of reason.

@@rell0223 I Agree with you bro. Keep it up 👍

Priorities... punish gamers for playing video games like a game rather than checking off their long list of promised features like commander point system (which would do far more to encourage teamwork than this drivel) or fast ropes

Yeah or they fired them once and got scared so they treat shooting 5.56 is like shooting an artillery cannon in front of your face. You get used to the boom pretty quick

@@vgamedude12 Yeah I never understood that with shooter games. It's the same in Tarkov, the recoil is just so ridiculously high with 5.56 guns.

I could care less about new maps or factions at this point. I just want better performance. I hate playing shooters at less than 120 fps

And I would like to have them added to squad as well.

check your angles mannn...

Thats real life though, average modern engagement is 300-400 yards.

I liked that. it's more realistic. Guns go far you cant run in the open far away and expect to not get fired on.

@@vgamedude12 well not anymore, engagement distances have been drastically reduced.

@@rell0223 I don't like that

Thats the issue, you cant punish people for playing a video game. Video games will never truly be realistic because people know its a game. Just enjoy the unrealistic emergent gameplay that comes from a realistic platform.

not as shakey as it was on the first test lol. this test seems more realistic. also you can only sprint for like 150m in squad. the rest is just jogging.

I don't play squad but to me it seems everybody is a basic infantryman in the game, so they are wearing a full combat load, flak jacket with sapi plates, kevlar helmet, and whatever else maybe a pack with a radio...that shit is not light. And it's not sexy AT ALL...and tbh the high speed low drag operators a lot of times have it the same it's not like some of these movies depending on what they are doing, maybe slight differences...maybe a little lighter but not really, if they get ambushed or in a long firefight, they are going through the exact some sht a basic infantryman goes through . So looking at this gameplay above, I think they've about nailed it...because that's how it really is to do that. You don't always get the best cheek weld, or quick sight picture, you are incombered by your own gear and it does get very cumbersome after a while, you feel like a turtle with all that sht on. Sprinting definitely does fvck your aim up with all that sht on. You sweat more with the helmet on and it gets into your eyes, if you are dirty and wipe the sweat now you have sweaty dirt in your face....your helmet can get pushed forward in the prone which can fvck with your ability to get a clean sight picture quickly etc...I could go on, I HATED the flak jackets we had to wear in Iraq. Some of these guys, I get where they are coming from as they are training with guns on a range...as a civilian, with their high speed low drag plate carriers...light weight specialized helmets..couple magazines etc, maybe doing a little hunting etc...that sht doesn't compare to Infantry training or real combat, it's the truth, but that is their experience. I did a bounding range in Yuma AZ, maybe 2 football fields long and slightly uphill, full combat load, movement to contact drills with bounding. The first couple times running that range we were fast and sharp. By like the 3rd time of having to do that sht...most of us were gassed, and legit just doing what we could to shoot at the targets and be safe...so there was a drop off after a couple times running it. Based on the gameplay I'm seeing above, it looked pretty damn accurate to me as far as basic infantry firefights.

​@@Siegefyanice informative comment👌

@@logangoulet7522 It looks great to me so far, I think I'll actually get the game.

Then maybe Squad just ain’t for you.

@vhscopyofseinfeld hence why I haven't played in ages. Unfortunately it dulls the FPS experience because squad is superior than just about every other FPS out there. It's just not easy for a more casual player that can only login once or twice per week.

Playtest 1 had significant changes that made MG roles feel like proper MGs. Playtest 2 nerfed some of those changes but still a big improvement from existing vanilla Squad.

too much realism is not fun to play at all.

@@JackBoii Well, I very much enjoy the like of Arma with ACE medical and a bunch of other "realistic" mod. So I enjoy realism along with many others. I do get though that it is not everyones 'cuppa tea.

lmao are you saying grenadiers shouldnt be able to punish poor spacing??

Nope. Read again.

When u look at @operatordrewski clip at 2:17 you can see his stamina is also half drained.. so yes it will take longer. Its showing these types of examples that tells me he doesn't understand the mechanics enough or is just being disingenuous about it.

I see Squad right now as being in an awkard position gameplay wise where it takes a while for squads to get to objectives and they get smoked in 5 seconds by dudes with ACOGs on full alto from nowhere. This update does more to increase survivability and firefight lengths, which makes the game more fun in general if you take your time and play more slowly.

I agree that its in an awkward position combat wise. It was even when i stopped playing. Change is indeed needed, but stuff like my screen getting super blurry when a shot comes over my head or when im running and i see a guy in front of my, it takes a loong while to be even able to shoot at the guy (like in the clip where he's entering the house)... im not sure if thats the right path. I know its a shitty thing to just say a change is not great without even saying any other solution, but the opinion is at least in good faith. Not to stay on the negatives only, the pip scopes are a much welcome change imo. From what I've see, it needs some slight tweeks but im super looking forward to how its gonna turn out.

This update isnt there to increase realism, its to make the game more tactical.

Thats the funny thing, is that sacrificing balance and replayability for "realism" isnt even all that realistic. Any true gun owner will see that the sway is extreme, and point fire is way too unstable, like you have a milk jug tied to the end of your barrel. Maybe the suppression is realistic, idk never been in combat, I dont serve, but from a game designers standpoint having an aneurysm whenever a bullet remotely passes by the character is not fun and a poor choice. This whole update centers around punishing people for playing a video game like a video game rather than rewarding them for working together, which is MORONIC game design, unless you want to drive off players in the long term.

​@@schmid1.079if tactics consists sitting in one place then sure. But it has certainly come at the expense of pushing and maneuvering around the enemy as it rewards sitting in one place by severely punishes attacking. Honsetly though, real life tactics dont translate 100% to a game because its a game. Its 100% cognitive and your life is not on the line. Increasing efficiency at completing a task is tactics. If you want a larper operator simulator where youre going through the motions of real life tactics, Arma RP is for you, not squad or any other competitive shooter.

Games are in a weird spot. IRL controlling these rounds is quite easy, but also, even a cursory look at how many rounds are fired vs how many hit show that even with these mechanics tuned all the way up it’s still easier to hit things than IRL. The issues IRL are not weapon control, it’s stress, confusion, ability to see where people are and a host of other things that games can’t control. So they have to dial up what they can control.

people fighting irl don’t have the time or guts to “ads” like people do in games or on a range. Lots of combat footage, and hell, even airsoft and paintball games see people point shooting, not properly shouldering, firing from the hip, firing while shifting balance, etc. These factors can’t really be emulated in games, not to mention the weight and bulk of full combat loads.

​@thepeopleslibrary9345 yeah but lots of games have confusion. The game should make the player feel that, not artificially through bad, forced, mechanics that are cheesy as shit. It's a huge shortcut

yeah

yeah

it's much more in line with real life behavior now

@@and2972 It may be and I'll have to try it out but being in line with real life behavior doesn't = good gameplay necessarily. It needs to feel immersive and add to the enjoyment of the game rather than be realistic for realism sake.

@@mckinleyfisher-lynd3896 It's not for realism though. It's so that people are forced to work together more, and lone-wolves get punished aswell as the casual run&gun play style.

Problem is you walk back the gunplay changes, you walk back at least half gameplay improvement, they aren't seperate. They can't simulate your head moving without it being terrible (ex: how shaky VR footage is) so applying motion like that to the gun might be the abstract compromise to go with.

@@Gerwulf97 For sure I agree that mechanical skill is to some extent opposed to tactical gameplay. But I think it's an exponential thing, you need to nerf the ability to put accurate rounds out just enough to support the gameplay goals.

That’s the whole thing, there are sooo many games that already do what you’re looking for. Majority of the squad fan base want a realistic game so if you want something more casual play something else?

@@elijahbill9148 You're putting words in my mouth. I don't want a twitch shooter and haven't played them for a long time. I play 90% simulations, racing, flight, ARMA, etc. However the gun play, at least in the first playtest (haven't played the others) is OTT and there's not much about Squad that's realistic. Which is good, realism isn't fun. Squad is probably the most "casual" game I play, though it's probably not the right word. The medical system, the stamina system, weapon balancing, etc are all pretty gamified. I'm fully in favor of these changes, however after playing I just think they all need to be pulled back a tad. I'm not saying this should be Counterstrike, I don't know how you got there.

​@@Anonnymouse53well worded, squad is a slow paced casual game. Frustrating that all these people who dont play squad regularly want to turn it into arma rp or something and then more than likely just leave after the novelty wears off and they realize what a mediocre shooter theyre left with.

COD is woke,,,not getting my cash

If toned way down it could work, but it doesnt seem they are open to doing anything significant to change their overhaul. Theyve had 2 opportunities to adjust it since PT1 and each time they hardly changed anything.

Yup, would be cool to have your arms high up and shooting over a hill etc without showing ur whole body. Or crouch and adapt to a height of a wall etc. Like insurgency sandstorm. Instead you have to stand up for a 1m wall or concrete fence etc..

@@dacke13 blind fire could be nice addition and the gradual crouch like tarkov could be another cool feature

@@radament. Agreed!

gotta agree, even Arma Reforger buildings felt more lively

@@OperatorMax1993 Yeah bro

lol ok bro, you probably think combat is all sitting in bushes and shooting back and forth with no maneuvering, because any movement should make you completely unable to shoot straight at all, right?

@@specialist4566 I think there are a whole lot of valor thieves on the Internet.

@@NZobservatory What's that supposed to mean?

@@specialist4566 It means I believe there are a whole lot of valor thieves on the Internet. What did you think it meant?

@@NZobservatory well why are you telling me that?

Yeah, let's make it even more slow paced!

It's a game. A FUCKING-VIDEO-GAME.

@@KIIJJY6969I agree, slow it down like the first playtest

It's only frustrating if you play it like Call of Duty. If you play in a squad where everyone is willing to coordinate, it's actually better than normal Squad.

Finally a good take on this. The first playtest was too much. The second one has been really nice as you still feel like you can fight back a little. I'm sure they will meet somewhere in the middle of the two, but I would just like to be able to semi effectively fight back in a gunfight instead of just shooting bushes all game. When it comes to games, hyperrealism is not fun to play. There is no way for owi to code adrenaline and stress, along with fear so gameplay will suffer if those things are attempted too heavily

It depends on the type of game really, a squad being pinned down by an armored vehicle just gives another squad or vehicle crew the opportunity to have their hero moment. They get to take out the armored vehicle, and let their teammates move freely which could win them the match. However for something more like Battlefield, that would be pretty silly to have a quarter of the team pinned down because there is nothing they can use to take out the armor.

maybe get better AT idk