It's kinda cheap how whenever the Iliad is made into a movie, they go for the star-crossed Lovers/She not happy with her husband plot, rather than a husband going to war to save his wife after SHE'S BEEN KIDNAPPED. In actuality Helen was at best kidnapped (some depiction of art show her STRUGGLING against Paris) and at worst roofied by Aphrodite into loving Paris, (Wouldn't be the first time the goddess did that). Menelaus isn't even that bad, it's his brother that's the asshole.

A film were Sean Bean actually survives.

I got so annoyed that 1) Patroclus was Achilles' cousin, he most certainly wasn't and 2)That their relationship wasn't built up more. Regardless of what you interprate their relationship as- romantic or other wise, Patroculs' death CRUSHED Achilles to the point where he refused to leave the dead body, he fucking slept next to it, and he didn't eat or bath most of the time. This was important to the story and explained why Achilles was so angry.

“Romance”? That’s like... the LAST thing I think about when I think about the Iliad. ...unless we count Achilles and Patroclus.

I'm happy to say that despite their attempts to turn Paris into a sympathetic character, I always saw him as a villain. I was actually really annoyed that he survived the movie, I wanted Achilles to survive the movie.

They didn't even include the cool Odysseus moment storming the beach - there was a prophecy that whoever stepped foot on the beach first would be the first to die, so, understandably, noone wanted to. Odysseus, the crafty chap he is, throws his shield down onto the beach and jumps onto that, and so he's fine. Another Greek sees this, and assuming that the prophecy was wrong or something, jumps onto the beach. And immediately dies.

Me, a Mythology nerd who took six years of Latin: “Wait. ‘Troy’ is an adaptation of a book?” Me. Five seconds later after remembering ‘The Iliad’: “Oh...Right...”

Brad Pitt as a disney princess. That is the single most hilarious observation I am going to learn all week.

What was really aggravating to me when I saw this movie was how they characterized Helen. In the Iliad, she didn't have any respect for Paris, especially after he fled from Menelaos. In this movie, she had a speech about how she doesn't want a hero for a husband. This woman did not strike me as the sort to survive the bronze age. Or any pre-industrial age.

Paris also took Menelaus' son, and left his daughter Hermione without her mother. And what the hell, no Diomedes? That guy was the PIMP! He beat Ares, fought Apollo, and gave Aphrodite a cut to remind her to stay off the battle field.

Ugh...why do Hollywood writers want to ignore the original lesson/message of the books they make adaptations of? I'm convinced that Hollywood writers need to major in literature, so they understand the source material! I mean, jeez, it's bad enough they get books wrong, they can't even do comic book adaptations right!

If I want an accurate retelling of the Iliad, I’ll stick with Overly Sarcastic Productions.

Achilles refused to sleep or eay for days he slept next to the fead body of his life long partner griefing his death. To say that after Patroclus death he was enraged would be an understatment. Even as his mother told him that hr would die would he go back to the battlefield he didn't care, avenging for his lost partner set as his priority. So big was his rage that the sporadic rate at which was killing was going to end war before the time it was destined to,had not Zeus, the single most powrful God, intruded. Achilleas gried was so powerfull that his rage was going yo change the fate's design. Yet to see this deep and iconic relationship being pushed aside and belittled to fit the heterosexual narrative in the movie is at least dissapointing. Even uf you believe that Patroclus was his lover or not you cant dismiss the depth of their realationship and to see the screenwriters crash it alongside other iconic parts of one of thr most timeless classic piece in history is honestly enraging

3:27 "It's now believed that it was written somewhere around 1250 BC..." Slight correction, here. The Iliad is assumed to have been written during the 8th century BC. It's the events, that it portrays, which may have taken place around 1250 BC.

Another thing to remember regarding Achilles: He never wore armor. He was dipped in the River Styx at birth by his ankle, giving him impenetrable skin except for his ankle, which is used to kill him. Also, a lot of the characters had kill counts as high or higher than he did.

I honestly don’t care that his played by Orlando Bloom, Paris did not deserve to live seeing how this whole war was his fault.

by the end of the movie, I was convinced that it was implying that the Sword of Troy is supposed to be Excalibur

“I can’t tell if Achilles is supposed to look like a creepy yoga instructor or a Disney Princess who yearns for more.” This. This line is priceless. 👏👏👏

Can someone explain why they chose this actor when according to a part of the myth Achilles passes for a woman A VERY beautiful woman 🤦‍♀️

The biggest problem of Troy, is that there are no Greek Gods in the movie, even tough that the gods were an important part of the story! They would have made the movie 100 times as interesting.

Horse drawn carriage? Its called a chariot!

I have to say, the only character I had any sympathy for in this flick was King Priam. Even though he had so little screentime, Peter O'Toole acted like he was in a completely different and better movie--he was the only one that portrayed any genuine emotion and actually seemed like a decent human being. I couldn't bring myself to give a damn about anyone else, their acting was so wooden and hackneyed.

Hector should've punched Paris for one last time.

This review confirms that Troy is such a frustrating film because it does have really good things in it but also a bunch of crap

I'd like to point out that Sean Bean did live through National Treasure, and that had virtually nothing to do with Greek mythology.

I think I know why the movie was such a big hit despite what a poor adaptation of the source material it was: few people had even read the source material. I still remember when me and my dad rented the movie and watched it. halfway into the movie, my mother comes home, sees the movie, and says "That's the Iliad!" and both me and my dad were like "the what?" I myself enjoyed the movie when i watched it the first time. But then I studied Homer's work in high school and realized what a crappy adaptation the movie really was, getting most of its themes wrong and making so many stupid and unnecessary changes. Oh well, you know what they say, fun while it lasted.

Odysseus was portrayed very well though. Especially with the extended cut.

"I'll just have to...review a movie!" Linkara would be proud.

Later events, like the building of the Trojan Horse and the sacking of Troy, are found in a much later poem by Quintus of Smyrna called the Fall of Troy. It fills the gap in the story between the Iliad and the Odyssey. Paris a "Selfish coward" ? Absolutely. In the Iliad - which deserves 50/5 at least BTW - he is that, and treacherous as well. This film takes very stupid liberties. Killing Achilles with a body-shot is entirely wrong - he was invulnerable except for one heel. This is part of his character. If Agamemnon had been killed at Troy, there would have been no motive for his younger daughter Elektra and his son Orestes to kill Clytemnestra and Aegisthus. The film's death of Agamemnon seems to be inspired in part by the rape of Kassandra in the temple of Athena by Aias the Lesser, which led to the gods' sending a storm that scattered the Greek fleet. To have the odious Paris escape is unforgivable - he was killed during the sack of Troy - not one of Priam's sons escaped. (Aeneas, who in some versions of the story does escape, was related to the family of Priam, but rather distantly.) It would not have taken much trouble to have Aeneas play the part he does in the Iliad, and lead the escaping Trojans to safety, as he does in the Aeneid. Paris would then be dead, as he so richly deserved to be, and mythologically was, while the film could still have the Trojans escaping. The film sounds like an utter mess. The Legolasisation of every flick with O. Bloom in it is getting tedious.

Not to to mention the absence of so many other major characters like princess Cassandra and queen Hecuba

ok your cat is my favorite character in the whole overarching plot :P Also I think what Menelaus is wearing is Linothorax a type of armor where they use layers of woven linen over a metal plate. It was a fairly popular armor type among the Spartans and homer does mention it. Sorry just had to go full geek for a minute.

Knowing that David Benioff (one of the writers of Game of Thrones) helped write this movie, it makes Game of Thrones Season 8 look like history repeating itself. A rushed, hackneyed mess that betrayed its characters and lore, rushing to a disaster of an ending.

Wasn't Achilles mistaken for a woman at one point

the kings of Epirus were supposedly descended from Achilles. ..........i could very well be his descendant. i am a Descendant of Brad Pit.

As a Greek, I consider this movie just a blockbuster. No amount of research seems to have been made, apart from Wikipedia segments. It looks good, but that’s all. Also, Peter O Toole has the best line depicting honor amongst enemies.

Everytime somebody mentions this movie, a Classical literature student somewhere dies.

Not to mention that women were more respected in Sparta than anywhere else in ancient Greece.

You know who wrote it? David Benioff the same guy who ruined Game of Thrones

I could go on for hours about all the other important characters they left out and how passive Helen is.

IT IS NOT believed to have been written in 1250 b.c, that's when the actual Trojan war is supposed to have happened (Greek/Minoan bronze age), but the writing was supposedly done around 750 b..

The intro ignores the implicit message yes, but it perfectly sums Achilles' motivation in the illiad. He had a prophecy of being rembered for eternity but at the cost of having a short life vs having a long life of no note and achilles chose the path of kudos. Glory and death

Me and my classmates died when Aquiles screamed Hector over and over .

"Wives are for breeding." says the Spartan. I will admit to not being a history buff, but from what I've heard the Spartans had A LOT more respect for women. It might not be close to today's standards, but it was much better than the rest of Greece. Hell, Spartan women could VOTE!

This movie was terrible. The way they downplayed Achilles and Patroclus relationship significance was shitty too.

Hold on! I saw llamas at 30:26 there was no llamas in Europe in that era! but with all of the things they got wrong its not really a big surprise

I can't contribute anything that hasn't been said in the comments, except for: Hearing Blind Guardian in this makes my heart dance.

Does anyone remember a trilogy that retells the story of Illiad. It's by some British author and it focuses on side charachters. I remembered a guy with a really famous ship and two greek soldiers who end up on Troy's side.

Oh what I would give to see a decent adaptation of an ancient work...

A couple of notes... 1) in the movie, Menelaus waged war because his pride was damaged. 2) The movie was written by David Benioff, co-creator of tv's Game of Thrones. 3) I still prefer the theatrical cut of the movie rather than the directors cut, which you reference. It seems they were trying to go for a 'realistic' spin on the Trojan War. Benioff also said that in many cases, they changed events in order to make a better movie rather than a faithful adaptation.

I love your reviews. You're so freaking awesome and hilarious. Again, you're an awesome critic. I have a favor to ask. Can you review the movie "the green berets" directed by john wayne which was based on the book "the green berets" written by Robin Moore. They both take place in the vietnam war. They're both historic fiction. I would love it if you can review the green berets, if it's okay with you. It you don't want to, no worries. You're still one of my favorite movie critics. You go KrimsonRogue!!!

As a claissics student, I can say that this movie's only reputation in the field is as an excuse to get drunk through drinking games

When the Blind Guardian kicked in it was all I could do not to throw up the horns at my work desk. Well played that man.

Remember that famous quote when he reviewed Twilight in which he said: *”Popular does not mean good”* Well now take that quote and put that with Troy. People who say since it’s popular and won tons of rewards on Troy so it can’t be criticized can also be said on Twilight and both arguments for both movies would’ve failed miserably. And I agree with Krimson and besides someone had to say it.

Now I want to see a beauty and the beast remake with belle being a worrior bored with war and wanting something more meaningful, then he falls in love with beast.

20:50 Press "X" to hector! *spams X*

My sister rented the DVD when I was a kid, and what I remember most about this movie is Josh Groban's "Remember Me" song. That and the line "Take it, it's yours!"

This film is the perfect example of a bad adaptation. They removed any semblance of Greek culture that made it unique just so it would be easier for modern audiences to digest. There’s no involvement of the Gods, exactly one reference to the role fate plays in the war, and absolutely zero ambiguity as to which side is good and which is bad. Look at Menelaus and Helen for instance. In the book, they loved each other; Paris only got with her because Aphrodite was granting Paris his wish for choosing her in the golden apple contest. So, when back in Troy, Helen regains control of herself and despises both Paris and herself for what has happened. Can’t have that in our hollywood action movie though, so let’s make Menelaus an angry old mysoginist so that Paris and Helen can fall in love of their own accord. Oh, then let’s kill Menelaus less than halfway into the movie. It’s not like Menelaus was the sole reason the Greeks had for being in Troy or anything But I don’t think it gets anywhere near as bad as the death scenes of Patroclus and Hector. In the book, Patroclus’ rally manages to drive the Trojans all the way back to the Walls of Troy, at which point Apollo strips and cripples him, and Hector finishes him off. The fighting that day ends when the Trojans chase the Greeks back to their ships, but are made to retreat by the sound of Achilles’ war cry. In the movie, meanwhile, Hector kills Patroclus and is like “fuck it, we’re going home now”. Hector’s death on the otherhand, is literally the complete opposite to how the film portrays it. Firstly, Achilles doesn’t show up at the walls alone and start yelling, because he’d have been shot dead like an idiot. Instead, he chases after Hector as he flees from battle, and takes care to head Hector off before he gets close enough to the walls of Troy that the archers could shoot at Achilles. Hector in the book contemplates standing and fighting Achilles, but ultimately flees, and only stops to fight after being tricked by Athena. All the while, his family are also begging him to come back to them instead of trying to fight. Compare that to the movie where Hector just goes “fuck it, I suppose I’ll fight this guy by myself despite having a literal army in this city with me”, while the rest of his family ineffectually just stands there and watches him go. And they didn’t even kill off Sean Bean. Fuck this noise

Great video Krim. After taking a class, it seems that this movie takes the roman to recent reception of the myth where they see themselves as Trojans. Most receptions since see the Trojans as heroes. God a more accurate version would be way better. Edit: I'm surprised they got rid of the fact that it was Achilles that sent out Patroklos to fight in his stead, which is why he got his armour

The first time i saw this movie i really loved it, then i read the illiad ,also the Odyssey, i can't watch this movie without getting irritated. They even cut out my fav character in the poem, Diomedes, who threw a spear through Aphrodite's wrist. And where is Achilles and Patroclus' TOTALLY PLATONIC relationship? That's my fav part of the story.

To be fair, glory and a desire to be remembered was a motivation for many of the Greek soldiers and why they fought. Honour was also very important to them, hence why proud Achilles was so mad when Agamemnon took away his war prize bride away from him. He felt it was a personal insult to him and like Agamemnon was dismissing and insulting the deeds he'd done in battle and for which he'd won his prizes. You are right that The Iliad is a cautionary tale but one of the things it's cautioning against is that very obsession with glory and the desire to be remembered in history and so to act like those things aren't part of the story is I think to miss something inherent to The Iliad

I actually liked this movie until the ending. What a cop out to a real tragedy. I would have loved to see Hector's son thrown out of the wall.

Not that this is a good movie or adaptation, but king Priams welcome of Helen might be the film's attempt to convey the greek concept of the laws of hospitality. She is a guest regardless of the circumstances and the host is obliged by the Gods to protect, feed and clothe her and do her no harm for as long as she is a guest.

"And Then There Was Silence"! Perfect choice!

I personally LOVED LOVED the book so when I watched the movie and found it was crap I was PISSED and still is so I'm excited to see him trash it!

Damn Crimson Rogue, you're very very handsome

This is a good video indeed. Very informative and funny as well. Also, you cat is so darn cute!. ..... Wait, did I just used the word "cute"?

Two years later and I still love rewatching this episode, that and others of course! :D I do have a request/recommendation, if you haven't seen the 2003 movie Helen of Troy, I highly recommend it. It's much closer to the original text, it even has Clytemnestra in it and she's awesome! And as it was originally a miniseries it had much more time to explore some of the characters. Whether you just watch it or review it is your decision but I think you'd find it enjoyable!

Hector, breaker of horses Aquiles, breaker of Hectors...

It always amuse me how armor is always useless in movies. I mean, people always get killed by arrows even though they were wearing armor in first place. Do they have armor-piercing arrows?

Subscribed. I've grown to like this channel not only as a critic but as a fellow book lover

There is something that bugs me about this movie. Why does Hector face Achilles? It's war, people die, you are under no obligation to justify if you killed someone who was trying just as hard to kill you. The book, and other movies portray it better in that there was a battle, and Hector stayed out to buy his troops time to escape, But here it makes no sense. Let your archer's shoot Achilles when he gets so close to the wall, or just let him sit out in the roasting sun screaming. Or, heck, do go out and face him with 5 of your best troops, after waiting for like 3 hours. The only explanation is that Achilles challenged Hector to a duel, and Hector would have to accept or risk dishonor and appearing like a coward, but that I still question because again, 1. this is war, 2. Refusing to duel was not a huge dishonor, heck it would paint Achilles as more dishonorable for sitting out in the last battle, and being opportunistic, which would be far more dishonorable. 3 a question that was ALWAYS asked was "Why should I accept." This prevented low level subjects from challenging Kings, (Though Achilles was a king, so he would be in position to challenge Hector) but if your only reason was "He killed my best friend/cousin/ whatever." would not be a sufficient reason, especially remembering THIS IS WAR and PEOPLE DIE! 4. Standing outside of a city, and screaming at someone is not a formal challenge. Though it makes me wonder how many Hector's lived in Troy. I just picture like some blacksmith just doing his job and then wondering why some idiot is yelling at him. 5 it goes against how duels were actually fought. They wouldn't fight the day the challenge was issued. They would wait until the next day so both warriors would have had time to rest, eat, etc and were fit for combat. They wouldn't just do it right then because then we have a scenario where I am going to let you fight all day, while I sleep in, and then after you are exhausted and about to collapse, then I challenge you and have a HUGE advantage from being well rested. and 6 Duels like this would always have higher stakes than petty revenge. You would need to offer something. IE, winner, wins war, or winner, wins the loser's wife/daughter, (sorry ladies, but that is how women were treated back then) So challenging someone to a duel where the only reward was "If you win, you get to kill me," would be laughed out of the room. Also, in regards to the Historical Adviser thing, more often than not, they never actually do anything. Lindybeige told a great story of a historical advisor, and over the course of making a movie he was only ever asked 1 question! And that question was "Where would this standard be in this infantry line, would it be in the front of the line, the back, where?" Where he answered, "That is actually a cavalry standard, it wouldn't be held by infantry." And mind you, that question was asked half way through production! So any movie saying they have a historical advisor, is more or less saying, "We are paying a guy to sit there, and have coffee and donuts but never actually doing any work."

Fun Fact: Eric Bana and Brad Pitt made a gentlemen’s agreement for their fight. 100 for the lighter hits, and 250 for harder hits. By the end of filming the fight Bana owed Pitt nothing, while Pitt owed Bana 750 bucks.

I have to admit, there is one element I like about this movie: Hector. He seems like a true hero to me, willing to give all despite acknowledging what he has to lose. He does what his brother Paris couldn't and shows true courage whereas Paris shows bravado and an attempt at bravery that falters rather quickly. Hector's love for his people and his family are why he fights, not for glory or the gods. He is kind and just even to his enemies and behaves with an actual sense of honor. I could take or leave the rest of the movie, but Hector was great, whether you compare him to the source material or not. Side-Note: "And Then There Was Silence," was the first Blind Guardian song I ever heard and that was quite some time ago, and now they are pretty much my number one favorite metal band that has ever graced my ears.

SAY IT WITH ME NOW PATROCLUS AND ACHILLES HAD A RELATIONSHIP THAT WAS STRONGER THAN THE CRAP THIS MOVIE MADE IT TO BE If you want a GOOD adaptation of the Iliad, read The Song of Achilles. I bawled like a freakin baby.

Am I the only one who really liked Troy😂

I'm upset that the movie didn't open with "Sing, goddess, the anger of Peleus's son Achilles and its devastation." how does one not open an adaptation of the most famous poem in human history without the first line of said poem?!

Didn't the text in the intro explained Achilles' attitude towards Agamemnon?

Achilles: Hector! *repeat a dozen or so times* Servant: Sir, I think he wants to talk to you. Hector: Gee! What made you think that!' Servant: Maybe because he keeps shouting your name over and over. Achilles: Hector! Hector: *sigh* Just get my freaking armor.

Adapting the story of the _whole Trojan War_ in a single film was a big mistake. The _Iliad_ wasn't the only story about the Trojan War; there were eight separate epic poems in the Epic Cycle, of which the _Iliad_ is just one episode. Sadly, many of these poems have been lost, but we do have a abridgement in the _Posthomerica_ of Quintus; it tells the tale of the stuff that happened after the Iliad, including the Sack of Troy. There's a bunch of cool, less-known stuff, too: Memnon, King of Ethiopia Penthesalea, Queen of the Amazons; Neoptolemus, son of Achilles; and Deiphobus, another Trojan prince. There should be a Trojan War TV series.

Paris: ...um, she's just visiting. 😅 Menelaus: BULLSHIT!

Even when one criticizes it as an adaptation of the Iliad or as a historical piece/truth behind the myth type story (the comic series age of bronze does this far better) as a film on its own independent of those variables its a generic mediocre blockbuster with some decent acting.

This video just popped into my recommendations and after watching it, I can't help but think how awesome it would be if HBO did a proper miniseries about it.

The part where I realized how terrible the rest of the movie was going to be was at the beginning when the Greeks are invading a temple of Apollo, and Achilles casually defiles a statue of Apollo and lets us the audience know how he is a "too-cool for the gods atheist". As someone who studies not only ancient Greek myth but ancient Greek customs... NO, NO, NO For Zeus's literally FUCKING sake, NO! Even if you did have atheists back then, they would be far, far in the closet about it - There are at-least 50 different customs involving killing non-believers for publicly putting down a god lest they give you a bad harvest. Caligula - Emperor CRAZY, wasn't even stupid enough to defile a temple.

I think it’s ridiculous that Achilles lives through the first arrow to the heel. He was dipped in the River Styx, which means he was invulnerable everywhere BUT his heel, which would make any wound lethal.

How come the continuity of all your reviews is allover the place?

Interesting theory, but no. Sean Bean also lived in Silent Hill and Jupiter Ascending, neither of which are even remotely greek inspired. His character can live as long as it's a waste of his talent.

We had a test in our college English class about this movie...

A point about Menelaus' armor: it wouldn't be as ineffective as you might think. Padded cloth has actually been the most common form of armor used on the battlefield throughout history (mail rose up eventually to rival it but) but it's certainly been more common than metal plate armor or leather.

Also Achilles and Patroclus weren't cousins they were LOVERS. And Achilles sent Patroclus into battle in his place. Briseis was nothing more than something for Achilles and Agamemnon to fight over. The movie also forgot Cassandra, Ajax the lesser, Aeneas, Hecuba, Chryses, the Amazons, and Diomedes.

I don't mine a movie that tires to paint Troy as the heroes, what I have a problem with is EVERY ADAPTATION OF THE ILIAD SIDES WITH THEM.

Why are all their ages so messed up? Helena was 19 not 30 Menelaus was 21 not 55 Agamennon was 30 not 55 Achilles was 15 not 40 Petroclus was 40 not 20 Odysseus was 30 not 45 The list goes on. And Helena was 15 when she married Menelaus, not 16. Why change that?

First of all, I want to say that I love your reviews! You're hilarious! And I'm thankful to God that someone pointed out how messed up "Troy" really is. I hate this movie! Now what I just want to clarify is that Glory and Rememberance was really important for the ancient Greeks. It was one of their strongest beliefs to have their names known for the next generations. Can't wait for your next review!

Happy anniversary! Thank you for one year of your hilarious and informative content.

Great job but one comment: coins weren't even paced beneath the tongue at that moment. The first ancient greek coins were made in 7 BC while the Illiad describes a war from 1200 BC

I know it's a very old video but 20:23 you didn't mention one of the biggest deviation from the source material? Patroclus wasn't Achilles "cousin", he was Achilles' lover. Even said to be his soul mate. That's why he went into a murderous rage at Patroclus' death

In the Iliad, Paris was offered Helen by Aphrodite who was trying to get a golden apple of Eris during a challenge against Athena and Hera.

In which Brad Pitt's hair looks freakishly golden...Happy 1 Year!

Do you guys think we will see a return to good story telling where the networks learn there are no short cuts long term?

I wouldn't be surprised if Achilles and Patroclus were both cousins and lovers. The Hellas were... interesting lol. But in reality, the sexual nature of their relationship was not in the Homeric tradition. If they were to be in a romantic relationship, Patroclus would HAVE to be the dominant, and Achilles would have to be the subordinate as Patroclus was explicitly stated as the elder of the two.

As an archer, can I just say I fucking hate Orlando bloom’s shooting. NEWS FLASH: When you fling your bow forward as you let go of the arrow, it’s not going to land anywhere near where you want it. Like, Jennifer lawerence wasn’t perfect in the hunger games but it was all minor technical stuff only someone who shoots would notice, bloom just thrusts his whole upper body forward like he thinks he has to propel the arrow with brute force.