The first mode isn’t just dual mono. It inverts the phase of the oscillated signal in one channel, so the dry portion of your sound remains in phase while the wet parts between channels are out of phase with each other and one is out of phase with the dry signal. Some people complain about this method of stereo implementation because it means that if the channels are summed to mono the chorus will disappear completely, but that shouldn’t be much of a concern in any situation except recording direct from the pedal and processing both channels exactly the same. I prefer it to the separate wet/dry that Boss has done on their other CE and CH pedals, and it’s certainly better than some pedals that fake stereo by simply inverting the phase of the entire signal in one channel.

that covert _Waterfalls_ reference was *chef's kiss*

Thank you for the clever Waterfalls reference! That's great.

I love the CE-3. Don't believe the hype around the MN3207 vs the MN3007. The reason the MN3007 had superior specs is because it was designed to work at 15V - the MN3207 was designed as a lower voltage version of the 3007. The 3207 is spec'ed at only 5V (but can run at up to 10V). If you lower the operating voltage of the 3007 down to the same voltage as the 3207 then the differences disappear (even the 3007's superior noise spec becomes the same as the 3207). The CE-3 had a higher input impedance than the CE-2, so that was probably responsible for some of the CE-3's reputed "more metallic" tone compared to the CE-2 loading down your guitar and seeming "darker". The frequency filtering (in fact, practically the entire audio path) is identical in both pedals. But, importantly, the CE-3 had a resistor on the first gain/filtering stage that made it quieter than the CE-2. If you remove R18 (snip it) in the CE-3 then it will be a bit louder and, surprise, sound even more like a CE-2. The CE-3 is the only Boss chorus that had that resistor there (and unless you hit the CE-3 really hard you won't have headroom issues).

MN3007 vs 3207. At the time, only a handful of players used a common external power supply to power their pedals, and not many had what we've come to call a "pedalboard". The majority would rely on batteries, and yank the patchcord at the end of the gig to turn the battery off. All BBDs, whether 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation, require a DC bias voltage to pass audio signal. That DC bias is derived from the power supply, by dividing the battery voltage down. As the battery ages, that DC bias can drift, and the audio quality of the delay chip suffers if that drift is big enough. The MN32xx series sought to remedy that by being able to operate off 5VDC, The battery in such pedals was dropped down to a stable 5VDC, using a regulator, and the bias voltage was taken from that *stable* 5VDC, such that the audio quality would not vary as the battery aged (the battery would have to drop down to 7VDC for that 5V to become compromised, but by that point the battery was pretty useless anyway). It is easy enough to assume that the change from a 9V supply to 5V would result in a big drop in headroom, but BBDs have very limited headroom even with a 15V supply. You're looking at maybe +/-500mv before noticeable clipping, in the best of circumstances. Still, the 3207 distorts more readily than a 3007 does. *HOWEVER* , virtually all such pedals are run at approximately unity gain, so unless you are feeding an MN3207 circuit with an ultra-hot signal from an overdrive, you won't be pushing it into clipping. And even if you were, how on earth could you tell what clipping is the chorus and what the overdrive feeding it? For all practical purposes, if you are feeding it with a clean guitar, having maybe a smidgen of boost from an EQ or compresso, you likely will not hear any difference in signal quality. Bottom line: what seems different on spec sheets may sometimes have no practical implication in real-world contexts.

You have a very natural and fun to watch style of presenting. I predict this channel to grow.. a lot.

Love the CE-3. Did some gigs this summer, and put the CE-3 instead of my old CE-2, and I was super happy with my tone. It's a great piece of Boss history.

that was an hypnotic intro jam 👏👏👏😎 , great video , thanks 😃👍👍

I love your videos! This one covers everything! I am so pleased to see these aren't just demos. I admire the depth of detail and tech talk you've included here. So honest, too.

Great video as always! Lots of work and knowledge. I did hear more clarity and high-end content after the bias setting

1) Audible differences between chorus pedals of different brands often stem from small differences in their delay range. A chorus that modulates delay from 3msec to 8msec will sound different than one modulating from 4 to 10.5msec., even though it is the same sweep ratio and it's a nominally teensy difference in delay time. People will often generalize from a single copy of this pedal against a single copy of that one, neglecting the fact that the components setting the delay time can have a 10% tolerance. 2) Chorus pedals that use electronic switching, rather than true bypass, often simply cancel the audible *effect* by blocking the wet/delay signal with an FET, rather than sidestepping the entire circuit. While a person *could* extract vibrato from a CE-2 by simply lifting one end of the resistor that mixes in dry signal with wet, the problem is that when you hit bypass, not only is that dry signal missing, but so is the wet, meaning that the pedal produces no output at all. The CE-3 appears to be designed to circumvent that problem by means of the stereo mode, where the one output alternates between dry-only (in bypass) and wet-only (in effect mode). 3) Is the CE-3 a CE-1 in disguise? No. The CE-1's chief distinction is that it wisely uses a sine-wave for modulating vibrato, and a triangle wave for modulating chorus. Sinusoidal modulation has a more "musical" feel to it for vibrato. The CE-3 uses the same triangle wave, whether you are in mode 1 or mode 2. 4) Yes, caps do dry out with time. But you have to consider the particular *generation* of electrolytic cap. My first impulse, with a non-working late-'60s fuzz in 2003 would also likely be to replace the electro caps. But caps in a pedal produced in the early '80s are likely to be just fine, forty years on. It's worth noting that voltage ratings corresponded to both size and price in the '70s and earlier. If you wanted a higher voltage rating, the cap was going to cost you more and maybe be awkwardly larger. It's not uncommon to find electros rated 16V and lower in vintage pedals. Once you get into the 1980s, though, caps with substantially higher working voltage-ratings (e.g., 35V) are nice and compact AND cheap, so designers/manufacturers use caps that offer more protection against electrical abuse. 5) Bias trimmers CAN be twiddled without damage to anything other than the sonic quality. You can usually bias correctly by ear, although a scope is likely to be a little more accurate. Under and over-bias gets you no sound. Approaching proper bias from below or above gets you distorted sound. The closer you get to proper bias, the cleaner the pedal sounds. If biasing by ear, it is probably best to temporarily lift one end of the resistor that mixes in dry signal, such that you only hear the BBD sound. Of course, that isn't necessary with a CE-3, if you set it to the appropriate stereo mode. 6) On my own, I added a 3-position toggle to make the range of delay shorter (closer to flanging) or longer (a "thicker" sounding chorus) by varying the value of clock capacitor C25.

Hi - new to the channel and subscriber. Couldn’t believe it took so long to find your channel, but I’m glad I did. Great information presented in an easy-going style, with fantastic non-cliched playing. Well done!

That was a fun clip and breakdown. New subscriber here!

As always, great video! Chorus is my favorite modulation effect. My number one pedal is a CE-2 clone I built, so I guess I’m a Great Value Lemon Lime kinda guy.

Dude this is the kind of esoteric content from you that I love. I mean, talking about chip model numbers and diving into the service manual, who else on KZfaq is doing that? And I love how you pointed out that the CE-2s made in Taiwan use the exact same chip. More of this arbitrary "this one good, that one bad" stuff in audio needs to be debunked. Like how it's already been proven so many times that digital recordings are indistinguishable from analog, minus the additional noise and distortion that can potentially come with vinyl. Audio University just did a great video on that a couple weeks ago. And on that topic, can't wait to see how else your oscilloscope gets used on future videos.

Great video! I love using my CE-3 as a vibrato just taking the wet output, it sounds amazing to me. I wish I was as able as you of changing electrolytes and calibrating the bias, I'd be so curious to hear for myself how much it changes! I have a lot of 80s pedals that might need to be re-biased. I'm waiting for the phaser video, I really like your clear way of explaining things. Ciao!

Once again great video. I’ve owned several ce2s over the years but realized I could get the ce5 to sound nearly identical. I’d still like to try a ce3.

I have a CE-3 that I bought new. People who didn't like them at the time were just using the stereo incorrectly.

The diligence here is inspiring.

suddendly this channel becomes my favorite about pedals

Someone get JHS to shout this guy out! He's doing the Lord's work.

I was always a sierra mist guy. Love my ce-3.

I added a mix control to my CE-2 recently and now it's perfect!! Mono yes, but the sound 😀

This is my favourite chorus for cleans. I owned the CE-2 & 3 together & I preferred the CE-3 so sold the 2 on with a decent profit.

Very interesting video.. The CE-1 is just fantastic

Great video! Thanks for this. I had to run back and re-watch your Boss CE-5 Chorus Ensemble Digital vs Analog video again (because I have an analog CE-5 and I needed to feel better about not having a CE-3!) and was wondering if Boss ever made a version of the CE-3 in a digital format. Also, I have a JC-40 Roland with the built in chorus and there is no pedal that matches that sound. Well.....my CE-5 doesn't, that's for sure!

Thank you for this in-depth comparison, I noticed a definite increase in the brightness of the tone as the new capacitors were installed and then biased. At the end of the day, as you said, to the average listener in a normal mix the pedals are virtually identical. I do find the CE-3 overall to be a bit darker and more "processed"-sounding than the CE-2 but honestly probably a worthwhile tradeoff for stereo functionality.

Still have my original CE-3 from 1986. Thank you to Andy Summers and Alex Lifeson for inspiring my love of chorus. It was one of the first effects I ever bought (along with a DOD flanger).

Sounds really good dude

Absolutely adore this pedal, had one since 2014 and I always end up going back to it no matter which chorus I try (small clone, mxr, ce2, ch1, ce5) Not too great at doing exaggerated small clone sounds but has a super smooth character to it. Great as for post-punk/ dreampop/ shoegaze stuff

honestly? my ears couldn't hear the difference. i went back and re-listened, and it's absolutely clear that the one internet forum guy has way better hearing and can discern subtlety far better than i can. what i *could* hear was delish production and careful attention to detail with regard to leveling and package editing and assembly. i love learning, and ergo, love your channel, good sir. welcome to oscilloscope land! secret hidden track: i was waiting for you to bonk us by pulling that badass CE-20 off of the shelf and reveal that all chorus effects in today's episode were, in fact, generated by said badass box. should this indeed be the case, your secret is totally safe with me.

sold me on this pedal

"Bass boat sparkle finish" priceless!

Still have my ce3 from the early 80's. The pedal sounds huge going stereo mode into two overdriven amps . I loved Brad Gillis tone on speak of the devil and the ce3 gets you pretty close.

I think you improved the CE-3. I think the CE-2 sounded better here though. I have a Boss CH-1 myself. You make good videos.

I just bought a boss harmonist and Arion stereo chorus, the detune feature of the boss before the chorus makes it sound so rich

Used a BOSS chorus and a BOSS flanger back in the 80's. They were pretty much essential pedals back then :-)

I kinda liked the unbiased sound, I dig the imperfections in the waveform, the properly biased sound was a little too smooth for my tastes.

Hey, it would be cool if you or someone else made a video about the boss DM-3. A lot of people dunk on it because it’s not a DM-2 but I think it’s wonderful.

Bought the CE-3 new in 1985 It was great in Stereo Mode.

I need this guy as a neighbor and a friend.

Gilmour used one for a while. That's one hell of an endorsement!

In output mode II and output B only there’s a great vibrato.

The CE-3 seems to have a sparklier top end. For some players/situations, that might be preferable over the CE-2’s thick midrange.

Interesting comparison. I have an original CE-2, but don't know if it has the magic chip. Regarding tone comparisons, I suggest playing a Loop through the different Pedals for consistency, then use a Null Test to compare the results. This should remove the maximum number of subjective elements from the comparison. 😎

My first chorus pedal and still the best. Mine disappeared after Hurricane Maria. Wish I have it again.

Another great video! I just put out a video featuring the CE-3 😂 While playing all of the CE pedals back to back I really developed an appreciation for the CE-3. It's different from any of the others, cleaner and more hi-fi. However, I didn't know about the change in chip 🤔

It is a great pedal🤩🎸⭐️

I built my board based on my experience with certain pedals, checking with certain rating circles and price. Buying mostly already modded used pedals I think I built a pretty versatile 12 pedal board. My chorus is a CH-2 modded by Indyguitarist (B Wampler) for $80. Now this is 3-4 yrs ago I built my board and haven't changed a pedal besides switching out Dunlap wah with Dunlap volume for worship gigs. Same bottom plate.

Nice! I actually have a Japanese made one on my board. A level control would make it better, but I still slightly prefer it over my Chorus Ensemble.

It's funny how you mentioned being incosistent guitarist when describing differences between modded/unmodded versions, because I can totally believe it could be a two way street - if I play 2 different pedals and one of them is e.g. a little bit more touch sensitive or bassy or noisy or whatever than the other one, I'll almost surely alter the way I play, both consciously and subconciously. And that's cool because we aint machines (unless someone wants to play the most technically perfect djent riff to be ever djented, idk)

Keep doing the good drugs.

Got mine from Reverb just $100, it's cheap for a MIJ Boss pedal, it looks beautiful, I like the metallic blue finish. I wanted to use chorus very subtle so people can't tell it is used, but it eats up a lot of mid/low, that means my tone is too thin when using it.

I actually like the darker sound from the older components.

You're forgiven.

When I tested my CE-2w the LFO showed some odd behavior, but other than that it seemed like a standard BB chip chorus with a 6KHz frequency response and a delay from 2-8mS.

I adore the CE-3! I was able to get one from like '83 and it's mellow, not dark or seasick. This is a lovely choice for those seeking an older Chorus but do not want the heavy Multi-Voice tones. It gives clean tones such an understated sparkle, like its cute paint job.

I thought the newly capped pedal sounded a little sparklier but who knows. Regardless, there’s nothing wrong with the CE-3, it’s a fine chorus from the people who literally invented chorus. Also, is that a worker and parasite simpsons shirt? The Soviet cartoon krusty played when he didn’t have itchy and scratchy anymore? Nice!

Damn, I was just ogling my CE-3 just today. Its a tad broken, so I have to get it fixed. It, in fact, rules.

can one record a riff then play that riff through the original old pedal, then through the modified renovated pedal? i guess not - i guess one loses sound quality on a digital recording of the riff. i'm guessing one also loses a heap of sound quality listening to the playback on a phone or laptop? that sounded very zepplin-esque, circa 1976 btw - excellent vid dude

That’s my favourite chorus. First one I ever heard, and I have owned a CE-2… which was nice. I like the 3 better… Edit: The sparkle... It sounds so good at gig volume.

The CE-2 is more lush, the CE-3 is more metallic. There's a reason they reissued the CE-2 for the Waza line-up and I don't think it's about nostalgia.

Fun fact: at some point of my life I had five CE-2 (1980, 1982, 1984 - MiJ and 1987, 1988 MiT) and they all sounded slightly different.

Lmfao at the TLC waterfalls reference

Andy Summers started plugging a CE-3 into his Cornish board around the Synchronicity era of The Police.

It would have been a perfect CE-3 review if only you gave Mode 1 a little bit more attention since that's what really sets this chorus pedal apart from all the other BOSS chorus pedals. For all those who are interested, Mode 1 is not just a simple mono mode that routes the same exact dry/wet signal mix to both outputs. The discreet inscriptions next to the Mode knob hint what the pedal actually does in Mode 1. It says "A D+E" which means that if you are in Mode 1 and use Output A, the pedal mixes the dry signal and the wet signal that have the same polarity. On the other hand, "B D-E" means that the pedal in Output B mixes the dry signal and the wet signal but the wet component has its polarity reversed. Therefore, the character of the chorused sound coming out of Output B should be different, at least theoretically. On top of it all, the pedal lets you use both outputs simultaneously and combine the dry signal, the wet signal and the wet signal with its polarity reversed.

Remember back before the internet when absolutely NO ONE cared what chip was in a stomp box?

i liked the old caps

What oscilloscope do you have? Love the video! I just got a CE-3 and looking to do the Fromel and ACA-to-PSA mod. I like how the biasing smoothed out the changes in the LFO shape. I'd be interested in doing that.

These days I bought a CE1 clone pedal and the manufacturer said he used the less expensive MN3207. It didn't sound good, but I guess it has almost nothing to do with the MN3207. The circuit should be tweaked and biased accordingly to this IC. I've compared it with a Boss CE2W (Boss CE1 mode) and the hand-made one had a gate effect while the guitar signal decays and other undesirable side effects.

I thhink the CE3 sounds just as good if not better.

I like the bass chorus better it has a high pass filter so you can add chorus to the high frequencies without effecting the lows it sounds great with distortion

Osceriouscope!

I just fixed my friends ibanez cs9 chorus pedal i kinda wish i had an oscillascope so i could make sure the wave was right but its not all dirty sounding now but also seems a little more subtle than it used to.might need some new caps also maybe?

CE-3 sounds closer to the dimension choruses.

In Mode I, both outputs are not identical. One output has the effect inverted, hence the stereo...

What pickups do you have in your G&L? sounds great!

How can you say you're getting serious when you're turning on an o-silly-scope? Just kidding; cool video - thank you for reminding everyone that manuals exist, electronics work a certain way for a reason, and things can sound good without forum hype. Binging a lot of your videos on modulation pedals right now with no real goal besides enjoying some weird wobbles, so looking forward to the PH-1r.

Never understood the modern hype around the CE2. On a typical board it heavily bandpasses the tone, so distortion sounds terrible when it goes through the CE2. Wasn’t bad when it was £30, wouldn’t touch one for £200, regardless of where it was made and generally, MIJ Boss pedals are more likely to have that issue than MIT ones. Never tried the CE3, so no idea if they fixed the dry signal tone to a full bandwidth. They did fix it with the Waza and never noticed it as an issue with the CH1.

Boss Ce3 is more like a noisy BF-2. The MN3207 requires more power and the MN3007 runs at at negative power under 9v. At the end of the day both the CE-2 & the CE-3 have 1024 stage bbd chips. The best chorus is the CE-1 which uses a mn3002 which is a 512 BBD chip. I loved the CE-3 the stereo feature/vibrato switch but the CE-3 didn’t react to my playing the way the CE-2 did. The boss ce-3 sounds like a BF-2 with the bf2 Res knob set to 0

There is totally a difference between ce-2 and ce-3. Two diffs actually. The ce-3 is slightly more metallic sounding because of the filtering in the pedal. The ce-3 has a slight volume drop as well - done on purpose by boss because the ce-2 has a volume bump up and they wanted to tame that for the ce-3. I’d say that if you want to use chorus with a dirtier amp, the ce-3 would be a little better. If you want to play cleaner and get a warm chorus sound, the ce-2 might be better. Best solution overall is to own both pedals.

you had to make the comparative testing with a recorded loop. even though, the nuances seems to be really small.

I dig my CE-3, but it cuts the highs quite a bit.

What you could do is record a DI of a guitar part and replay it through the pedal each time and compare the waveforms?

My status light is broken anyhow.

Hey i keep hearing about it having a bad buffer. How true would you say that is?

Every chorus should be or have a stereo chorus option, don’t believe me, try your chorus through two amps and then go back to one, and it makes me wonder why chorus by definition isn’t automatically a stereo effect? I still want the option to use a chorus in mono , but that doesn’t mean it should be.

But maybe we were right … about chorus

Did anyone else get the funny Destiny’s Child reference in the video?

Aside from sticking to the labeled knobs and switches you’re used to also stick to the rivers and lakes. Please don’t go chasin’ waterfalls.

TF you talking about? The CE-3 is the best analog chorus Boss ever made.

How do we really know anything is ever truly Correctric, man?

I've owned both...my Japan era CE2 sounds way fatter and more lush

I just got a ce3 its better than the 2 imo. only the ce1 is better

I can’t stand the 3007 chip. I avoid anything with them and I love chorus/vibrato.

CE-3 isn't any good because it's not rare and was made for over 10 years. How can it be any good if it sold so many units? Ultimately its what you heard on most recordings in the 80s and 90s.

the ce-3 would sound OKAY SMOTHERED in verb and a pitch of some sort the ce-2 is magical and if you dont hear it .... then i guess you just DONT

Still, I think you’re movin’ too fast.

All Boss are the best. Still waiting on the Metalizer lol

The Japan version is 100% analogue, the Taiwanese is digital.