In addition to getting their walls back for their minor settlements, another good lore appropriate change would be to give Peasant Bowmen deployable stakes. English longbowmen had them in Medieval 2, and Peasant Bowmen on tabletop had stakes they could deploy in front of them. Both changes would help Brettonia when they have to defend territory with mostly peasant units. Also, if they are going to encourage you to use Knights to buff your peasants' leadership and nerf their leadership when they don't have any Knights around, then even a tier 1 minor settlement should have at least a unit of Knights Errant in the garrison, and not be exclusively peasant units.

Regardless of how people feel about the singular tier 3 cav units of their favorite race of choice, yes, a race designed entirely around a cavalry focus should have at minimum the best cav unit in the game.

Also worth remembering the armor buffs are very significant on grails because vigor loss lowers armor but perfect vigor means that + 30 armor will never be reduced

The lance formation attack with the grail knights passing through multiple units is like something out of Return of the King with the Rohirrim charge sweeping through the tides of orcs.

grail knights are basically like when in lotr helms deep battle they break out of the fort while kicking tons of orcs off the bridge with their horses

You savage; sneaking in that beautiful, Gregorian, Medieval 2 menu music.

Just because units fill similar roles does not mean they all have to be equal. The way to play is a rock paper scissors and that has always been the formula, some units play certain roles better in 1 v 1 situations or are meant to be countered by something else. A strong cav unit vs another strong cav unit will ALWAYS come down to small stats and become wasteful for the unit, which is why the player is meant to pick decent fights for the said units so they take less damage and deal more.

Oh my god that cav unit just waltzing through chosen was a little frightening ngl, iffy on that

I like the grail units changes, makes them truly feel like legends among mortals now instead of just a minor upgrade over normal knights.

It's ridiculous that the troughs bug made it in, I think this and similar lack of testing bugs point to there being a much smaller dev crew working on the game than is really needed. Not sure if that's the goal or a result of people leaving.

Grail knights are broken, but they should be. They should be the best cavalry in the game, considering their faction focus. I'd rather them get a cost increased than their stats nerfed. chaos, and blood knights should be buffed to the grail knights level. CA has to be careful buffing chaos knights, because their marks of chaos. The tzeench knights could easily be unstoppable.

“Oh, wow, look at those Grail Knights trampling through that infantry… Poor little maraudOH MY GOD THEYRE CHOSEN”

Oh yeah, I just faced Bretonnia in MP and felt the wrath. 1 grail knight and 1 grail guardian wreaked havoc through my eternal guard, even with 2 zoats for some mass. I could have braced more, but still, I had mostly good engagements- they just freakin steamroll right now lol- they got almost 3k value each. And I killed their healer first thing, so with heals that would have been even more oppressive. Edit: This was still a close game at around 12 minutes long and the Bret player was good, so it's not like they didn't earn the victory. But the cav mass was a bit crazy. I am saving the replay to watch after the next patch and see how it goes then haha.

Happy to know that they consulted Venris for this one

The background music and the expatiation for units was amazing this video.

This is the battle update I've always dreamt for Bretonnia. Imo all races should have a battle mechanic specific for them: Undead, daemonic, realm of souls, bestial fury, martial mastery, harmony, more powder, contempt, marks of chaos, WAAAARGH, etc And the ones that lack it feel incomplete. I could argue the empire should be the only ones to not have it but the dawi for sure should have something like a dawi shield wall that doubles their mass if they're braced or something.

Remember lads, a Grail Knight is the equivalent of a Power Armored Astartes.

Love that you have the medieval 2 soundtrack playing in the background. Brings me back to a simpler time

Started a Brettonia campaign last night. I am enjoying the battle changes but I’ve noticed an issue. The damsels new vows aren’t progressing.

Prophetesses always had Troths, but it's new for Damsels. Idk if it's only broken for Damsels or if it's both of them.

It's not a rework; it is a BLESSING.

Thanks for the video bud!

Me: [Shows two pictures. One of a Grail Knight and one of a steamroller.] CA: They're both the same.

Im gonna say that i love grail knights being the strongest, and would also like to see cavalry being able to plow through formations more often for other races, but i think the best counter to this, is the halberd contact effect from SFO, it lowers acceleration and charge bonus upon contact, which would mean certain units like halberds would drag down cavalry and prevent them from curb stomping their way through

“Allo! Dappy Chaos K-Niggets and monsieur Archaon who has the brain of a duck, you know! So, we Bretonnia fellows outwit you a second time!”

Thanks for the analysis

great video man thanks

Love the old total war music

Bretonniabros... nous sommes BACK.

I wonder to which extent it is better or worse to balance on a unit by unit basis as opposed to broadly balance factions. It's not that I think that Grail Knights and Guardians should remain as powerful as they are now but Ogres, Chaos, the Empire all focus less on cavalry than Bretonnia does.

The music really makes me with the Empire had some horned helmet Teutonic Knight sorta units

Important distinction here is that the push through is almost entirely the acceleration:deceleration ratio. Vanilla wh3 always has deceleration>acceleration, but lance moves it so that they have 8 acceleration and 7 deceleration, which let's them hold their speed and not alow down as they plough through. Mass is occasionally relevant to this with against high mass enemies, but is a minor part of what's going on there

As soon as Legend sees it just immediately trivializes the entire knight buffs and leadership for peasants thing they added lol but apparently it does make a difference? Looks like ima have to finnaly try a Frenchman campaign

Finally, after all these years, it’s time to play my first Bretonnia campaign. I believe they should be able to plow through a single, and maybe even 2 braced units. Just allow them to take more damage. You’ll charge through, but you’re going to have models start getting cut down once you are in that second unit.

Closest thing we're gonna get to a medieval 3 for a while..

Always happy to see my favorite faction get an update :) Grail knight super charges are fun to see but need a bit of tuning I'd like grail vows to see some changes Currently the quest for the grail is basically finding the least worthy quest and doing the bare minimum. While this is a very bretonnian thing to do I'd like to have quests be more epic. Give me a small narative maybe 1 or 2 stops and an appropriately challenging quest battle i can auto resolve. Or occupy 5 settlements to complete you vow. At the very least make the legendary lord quests much less restrictive. Ideally I'd like small narative quests with quest battles (like sea exploration battles) nothing that'd get annoying but still feel like a quest. And give the lord some bonuses for completing his quest. Pledge to mannan could give Aquatic to the lord's army and income from ports. Pledge to campaign could be Paladin hero capacity and even more campaign movement or maybe movement at sea. And for the love of god Lords with the vow of the grail should have a fire sword! That has always annoyed me!

The most glorious human faction imo, because no gunpowder. Now viable once again. And the Medieval 2 soundtrack, legend.

Medieval 2 music…so much beautiful nostalgia

SFO has a Halberd ability called cavalry bane that probably fixes the infinite pull through problem. CA should simply implement that.

What we from a Bretonnia DLC is units that have not been added yet, Truffle Hounds and Foot Knights for example.

My only thought as to why the grail knight mass could be intended to be higher than monstrous cav is to make the wedge formation feel more valuable as a unique thing. I don't know if it makes sense, but that's my best guess.

That pull through be making it look like a proper Rohirram charge on Pelenor fields lol.

Ah M2 music... CA used it in their official patch notes video too. I love it.

Someone at CA has been listening to my moaning lol... this is exactly what i wanted for my bretonnians... most chivalrous CA

1:50 "Ok, cool that they can charge against halberd enemies" 2:01 "HOLY SHIT"

I’ve been looking for the art you used as thumbnail here for years! Where’d you get it?

I adore the art in the thumbnail and I want it. Ze Lady Wills It

So fuckin happy with this man. _Finally_ , loreful grail knights. I'd love to see Blood Knights and Chaos Knights brought up a little closer to Grail Knights. Grail Knights should definitely be dumping on demigryphs with halberds, though. They've either struggled or outright lost against them for too long in the games history.

The extra mass with charges will make it so easy and funny to watch them launch enemies of hillsides and instantly kill Them.

Glory at last!

That Medieval 2 soundtrack btw

Grail knights should be this strong since theyre demigods in lore and the top tier units of the only cavalry focused faction

It feels like they took some hints from SFO Grimhammer with the grail knight changes.

Honestly, I am perfectly fine with Bretonnia having the grail knights be a bit overtuned. Cavalry is all they have. It is their signature thing. It is what they are known for. Hence it is nice to see that Grail Knights can finally defeat Blood Knights, as they should always have. The Empire, High Elves, Vampires Counts, etc. etc., should not have access to stronger cavalry than Bretonnia in my opinion. Just like Bretonnia should not have access to stronger archers than the Wood Elves. The Empire is known for their "jack of all trades, master of none"/combined arms approach. Hence why they should not have access to the strongest anything-unit (infantry, cavalry, artillery, etc.). As it defeats the purpose, if you are a jack of all trades, master of some.

Just watched, were knights of the realm featured here? If not, did they get any buffs as well? Maybe just increase to mass or something?

What recognisable music is playing in the background?

M2 still has the best OST in the series.

Not sure I completely understand the deceleration stat. Does the Deceleration from 6 to 7 mean they slow down more quickly, or does that number have something to do with some kind of a minimum?

Love the kingdom of heaven soundtrack you used here.

As someone who figured out what caused this, I'm 100% sure that the cause is Entity Size, not acceleration. Because when I change Knight of the Realms/Questing Knights' size to Large like GG/GK & Mournfang, they'll do the exact same thing when in Lance formation. Anywho, I think CA will figure out the actual problem soon and they should have a good solution for it.

The Royal Bretonnian Airforce flies again!

14:04 that felt good

This is exactly how I wished crushers performed and stone horns but my damn stone horn always leaps and bounds to a stop in front of the enemies

it WOULD BE awesome if they made the grail relique have quest on them in battle and the quest is map-wide like kill 100 units gives a buff to units around it but the kills are map-wide, that gives units like 5% stregth or defense if completed. kill a hero/ monster size unit like giant gain 5% damage reduction only in a certain radius around the relique.

I like the changes, they might be a bit over tuned but that can be fixed with some cost increases if needed. I am not sure about buffing other cav because those factions all have other things going for them bratonia doesn’t have a lot of things that other factions can bring to the table. The infinite pull through is definitely a bit of a problem.

Grail Knights are buffed, im excited now

Would adding a condition to charging units having to be out of combat bring more issues than it would solve? It would seem like a solution to plowing through several infantry units at least.

The real question is, who wins between them and a two v one of the busted pump wagons though? Imma assume pump wagons since they can two v one sky striders.

fvcking finally time bretonnian cav gets serious on the battlefield

Pretty sure when they changed the distribution of mass, they added entity mass to unit mass instead of changing from unit mass to entity so they have tons of mass now.

Maybe they can change cav the way it impacts on certain unit types. For example it should have problems with plowing though halberds bracing and heavily armoured units with high mass. Or at least go back as it was and making it easier to pull out of infantry after charging in.

Son's of Bretonnia!!

That is a believeable charging with horse. I have done it in a country that is feudal, when I was a diplomatic travels, Ran down 90 people without slowing.. so seems believable to me.

As a casual player whom has played more Bretonnia than literally any other races, the recent patch is enough to make a grown man cry. Now if only someone would actually play test the patch before launching it… (rip damsels)

Whats the song in the background

I feel like cav should take damage in collision but then they should be more effective than infantry in combat, so a lot of charge damage they deal and take a little. So you can’t infinitely cycle charge

Oh hey they remembered there are factions that aren't chaos. Baby steps on a treadmill but at least it's something.

I just love the idea of heavy cav smashing tru units and this makes me hard

CA will give grail knights higher mass than OK Crushers rather than releasing an actual DLC. fml

Give muh boi Louen perfect vigour damnit!

84 speed for heavily armored cav is a bit jarring to me considering light cavalry are just 92 speed. The most extreme example I can think of would be grail knight (120 armor, 84 speed) vs Wild riders (40 armor, 85 speed) All heavy cav needs to be rolled back to 75 speed imo, although an exception could be made for Bret's medium cav to 78 or 80 speed since cav is their core units

So, I have been beating the Grail Knight drum for years now, and I wont lie, this all makes me very happy, however at the same time this is also my time of reckoning. Basically, they should now also do this for Blood and Chaos Knights.

FOR THE LADY!

Is that some TW medieval 2 music my ears hear? Very appropriate when talking about the French boys of Warhammer.

Yeah now we're talking. Could never get into Bretonnia before, they felt weak (and I accept I kinda suck with cavalry still) but this looks way better, once they've fixed the crazy pull through stuff.

wtf???? swimming through units like that without even taking any damage, thats absolutely ridiculous

This is exactly what heavy cavalry should be doing to infantry, unless they are using a wall of pikes. If you have ever watched a line of horses charging in real life, its an awsome sight and you can actually feel the ground shake as they near you. Imagine standing in front of thirty or forty or more horses charging at you, they literally brush men aside and a kick from one will send you flying. Maybe someone took the devs out of their offices and showed them a real horse and this is the results you get.

ive been tweaking like crazy with mass and its a terrible stat to tweak for push through effect, instead there is a stats called "kf/kd/kb collision treshold" in battle_entities_tables and tweaking that gives crazy good results for pushthrough and currect unit behaviour. find it funny that they are tweaking on mass, which just doesn't work: but i've done it for too many hours too hehe, dont feel so dumb now. mass also give weird weight to units that shouldnt have, like 2 tons for greenknight and his horse. how?... yer so tweak those if anyone see's this or can inform them ^^

"Hark, brave knights. Hark, my lord Gilles. We commend your deeds. The Lady has delivered ye through ordeal to the place ye stand. Put the greenskins to the sword and confine the horde atop the mounts. Let a new epoch begin. An epoch of glory and honor." - The Fey Enchantress shamelessly ripping off Marika's speech.

lol the infinite drag through on infantry means they're a straightup ban in tournaments until thats fixed

Great assessment. I think grail knights should be powerful, but they should not be able to abuse infantry that much.

Grail knights 100% should be the best cav. It's literally like dozens of Captain Americas working in perfect unit.

Broken but people get mad at me for wanting slayers to have frenzy 🤷‍♂️

what I really dislike about that speedboost is they can now charge into skirmish cav. HEAVY CAV CAN CHARGE INTO LIGHT SKIRMISH CAV and chase them down. 80 speed would be fine. 84 is way overboard. Both faction already had units that can chase down skirmish cav, be it flying cav of brets or ligth cav of elves, now its ridiculous.

IDK Cavalry should always crush through infantry ranks even if it seems "OP" that's what they designed for of course not against giants but for the normal infantry dude with no spear it should be fine. This Cavalry topic has been in since Game one and CA hasn't found till yet a good way to make CAV useful now that Bret got a nice update since 2 years it looks for me normal. Take for example shogun 2 Cav they also crushed through ranks even against Yari from behind. Or make it so that their initial impact dmg is high enough to kill the full first row and dmg the second if they shouldn't pass through them. I often see them engaging getting stuck and swarmed to death even with pulling out and dealing small DMG numbers

they need to make the AI attack after you hurt them in melee, they do if you use spells or ranged attacks but not melee. It is kinda stupid that they just stand there and let you cycle charge them to death.

Hurrah for my beloved Bretonnians. Grail Knights are supposed to be living saints. But I agree that pull through is a bit much.

Grails knights and guardians are absolutely broken now, not sure what is there to be happy about. They are one of the most op units ever, that counters their counters 3 times over.

You didn't mention the splash attacks both guardians and knights have now.

How hard is it to implement a new system? Something like a charge resistance that will counter cavalry mass for spears, but it wont apply, or apply less to small units or non anti-large (and I dont mean the whole bracing system because it's really faulty and easily flanked out, or requires insane macro on single unit) I feel everyone wants their cavalry to feel satisfying but at the same time dont want spear or bulky armored units thrown around like they are made of paper. Maybe a system like charge fatigue, which would slow down a charge the more units cavalry passes through, that would build up during charges and would slowly fade over a course of 10-20 seconds, and different units like gobbos vs halberds would build up this fatigue differently... Im sure there's smart people who can come up with better answers. But as it is I dont think just changing stats would cut it. We either have cavalry and chariots that are unstoppable, or they get stuck on 2 small units and are useless, they either melt stuff they charge or take more damage themselves after charging a unit. As I said, I believe stat or mass changes may not be enough. Until new system is introduced it will probably just be a wave of buffing and nerfing stuff and a lot of unsatisfied players. Maybe CA needs another poll, this time with ideas how to balance out the mass/charge problems.