If we could go back in time, I'd prevent BMC from buying Pressed Steel in 1965 which made the bodies for all its competitors, which then led to the awful mergers. As Jeremy Clarkson said perfectly on Clarkson's Car Years 2000: It should really have been called Pandora's Box. Once BMC had Pressed Steel, they had everyone.

The p8 definitely would have been a success. The American muscle car like styling was all the rage at the time. Look at the Jensen Interceptor, Ford Capri and the Aston Martin V8 Vantage. The black prototype looks the way it does with a disguised bonnet scoop to try and throw off any press. The final lineup for the 70's if Rover had been independent would have been: Range Rover, Land Rover Series III, Rover P8 as the large Rover, Rover P10 as the small Rover and the Rover P9 sports car badged as an Alvis as Rover had just brought them before merging with other companies. The P8 was to replace the P5 in about 1971, and the P10 was to replace the P6 in about 1973. When the P8 was canceled, they redesigned and enlarged the smaller P10 to create a single model Rover, the SD1. The styling of the P10 was a bit bland and wedgy, and not as good as the later SD1

I feel the biggest error was that fact rover didn’t remain independent, rover was always an innovative company, that produced high quality cars, the moment they were brought out they lost the chance to do what made them good.

The fact that it deformed so badly in the crash test indicates that they didn’t know what they were doing. Certainly, the science was in its infancy compared to nowadays, but engineers knew what had to be strong and what should be weaker to absorb energy. Very poor structural design.

Great video. I remember seeing the P8 prototype at Studley Castle when Austin Rover used Studley as a training facility. There were several other prototypes stored in various of the old stables and outbuildings, but the poor old P8 was outside and left to the elements. It looked very rough 35 years ago. It'll be good to see it restored so we can see what might have been.

What makes my heart sink is how much money rover,bmc Austin and British Leyland pump into development and then never produced great vid again Tom😊

For once, a Rover car I’m relieved didn’t make production. I’ve looked at loads of pics of the various P8 prototypes - and they’re all ghastly……..as a silver lining, after it got canned, Rover started work on the SD1!

The biggest tragedy was the death of Standard-Triumph

The Rover P8 is really just another example of BL's or BMC mismanagement (like every other project idea they have) and it doesn't help the fact that even if it somehow got released, it would have been hampered by union strikes and quality issues (like my favorite BL product, the SD1). It also doesn't help the fact that BL or BMC practically owns like 90% of the UK car companies which means you couldn't make a good car without it being badge engineered (thus making your brand less special) or being told that it competed with a another brand. (Nevermind the fact that you also have to compete aganist the germans and later japanese!) I would raise the door handles up a little, make the side indicators smaller and add a small chrome or body color bumper in the front but other than that, I like the design and I like it more due to the fact that it is a sports sedan!

If the P76 was the P8 . . You missed out on a great car . . I had one . . One of the best cars ive owned . . V8 . Just cruise along. . The boot is massive . . You can put a 44gal drum in and still have a bit of room ....... Till the next one . . Bye from New Zealand . . 👍🍻🇳🇿

The story of BL. Too many lost opportunities, in house rivalry, angry unions, indifferent management. We had world class cars and blew it. I live in Preston, everbody's Dad, uncle, brother worked at BL truck and bus, it was the whole of Leyland, raw materials at one end, finished vehicles at the other, foundries, forges, huge machine shops and assembly lines. Every bus and truck you saw on the road was a Leyland. The place is nothing but a few units now, everything else is industrial units for small business's or housing estates.

I still can’t believe that this car was never made, but that’s BL all over. Also didn’t help that Jaguar had people high up on the board, trying to kill rover.

All that suspension tech in the SD1 would have been a winner. Great video as usual ;-)

Staring at this for ages trying to think of what the tail lights reminded me of; Porsche 911. Also the only part of it that doesn't look horrible. This being cancelled and the SD1 coming instead was absolutely a good thing.

A fascinating and very well researched video which was all new history to me! You really have begun to crack the format and adopted a cool, relaxed but professional style which make it so enjoyable. A Ed's Twin Cam series seems to have died a death, you are becoming my go-to site for classic car history! May you look at the early 1950 Wolsely 680 (Morris!) engine? Rob

The P76 was car of the year here in Australasia. The big killer was the v8 engine during the oil crisis at time of launch. P76 also had an awesome coupe version (Force 8) but Leyland Australia got axed. Shame they were very good cars pointing indeed, as you speculated, to them being possibly derived from the leftovers of the Rover P8. Spent much time in a P6S as a passenger and apart from its orange interrior, was a spectacular machine!

The P7 with the 5 cylinder engine would have been cool if Rover had the fuel injection system available.

Great video Tom, and what an incredible story it is too… potentially another missed opportunity. I’m not sure that the P8 was a looker in the way the SD1 was but we’ll never know what could have been. Many concepts get to a very late tooling stage only to get cancelled due to a change in market conditions or customer demand..

Rover had a good name in the 60s and early 70s, in continental Europe too. The P5 and P6 are still loved by car enthusiasts here. Also the SD1 started its career quite fortunate. By the early 80s the famous Rover brand image had fallen, as Jaguar was doing too. After the cooperation with Honda future looked good. It's sad that Rover finally stopped in 2005. Great to learn more about the P8 in this video, I hope the only one will survive in a museum.

I've been a big car fan all my life and have never heard of the P8. Good work Sir!

Another very interesting vid, you’re putting up some very well researched and fascinating info so well done. I wonder what the story of the crashed White P6 was ?

I’ve had a p6BS for some years now it’s truly amazing to drive I think of selling it sometimes it’s extremely original but every time I drive it ,which isn’t a lot ,I know why I dont . They are truly unique Well done to Mr king and Mr Bache respectively.

I worked at Solihull at the time, initially in production control for the P6 production line. I remember clearly that if I was at home for lunch then one of the P8s in dark grey - and was properly badged as 'Mantalay' (spelling may not be correct) as a diversion - was often parked outside the local chippie as the engineers popped in to collect their lunches. Spoke volumes for the carelessness of BL, who were already on the path of inept management and ruinous trade union interference. Yes the dash panel was an early precursor to the one fitted to the SD1, which we later went on to make at a new factory on the Solihull site. I left in 1979, convinced that BL and the British car industry had but few years left to survive.

WOW! Great story, Tom, It prompts me to read more on this car. I am shocked that it was in development for so long, and yet when it came to crash testing, it was inadequate prompting cancellation. My inkling that under BL, it would not have been a success due to the various issues plaguing the company that affected other cars. The complexities of so many new systems (especially that hydraullic suspension) lead me to speculate that issues would have been involved in that, especially with BL cost cutting. But honestly, its shocking that a car would be so far along in development to be axed. That is not what I'd like to say because of course, I'd love for this to have reached the marketplace and let the consumer and drivers decide. The styling is unique with the typical "hips" trend of the 1970s, but not overly avant garde. I see a bit of Morris Marina in the rear. Very VERY interesting. This all leads me to a question: how well would the British Motor industry done had there not been a merger between BMC and BMH? Competition is a healthy thing, but the 1970s were unstable for a number of reasons (inflation, fuel costs, labor unrest, various regulations in the US car market.) Our market was still welcoming British cars throughout the 1970s (Triumphs, MGs, and Jaguars), and had there been the car that met the needs of the marketplace closer to the answers that Japanese companies were providing (economy, quality, etc.), the established British imports might have had a stronger chance at competing.

I tried to research more on the p6 as my dad had 1 when i was a kid and was always fascinated by it. In doing so i also came across the test mule videos youve shown and i was blown away by the p6 with the citroen suspension goin up and down, i couldnt find any more info on it apart from aronline but this car deserves a video of its own

A strange story! The P8 almost looks Japanese to my eye - almost a few hints of a Datsun Cherry in there (radiator grill, side window shapes), only far bigger. Must admit that for some reason I really hate all the cars styled by David Baich (probably spelt that wrong) - this one isn't great but better than some of his later efforts.

Great video! You have done a lot o research. For me the formation of British Leyland was a mistake. Puting together so many brands who competed in the same segmet wasnt a good idea.

Amazing video, thanks! Not sure if the P8, in the form we see here, would’ve been a success but maybe if the design had been further finessed before production it might’ve been. Additionally it might’ve evolved into another, better vehicle.

It's a new one on me but think it looks wonderful - masterly. It's not brutal and it isn't too much. I am reminded of the first time I saw a VW Phaeton in my rear view mirror with my thoughts sliding swiftly from "I am not worthy" to "I want one" 😁

I personally think the P8 was a really good looking car! shame it didn't go into production.

The surviving P8 prototype, TXC160J is actually on DVLA! Tax status shown as 'Not taxed for on-road use' and a new V5 was last issued in July 2005!

There are so many "what ifs" about Rover. An independent manufacturer known for engineering and attention to detail albeit some engineering was "well proven" and a little long in the tooth. The P8 was quite ugly really but maybe that would have been softened for production. Rover merged with Leyland to avoid the BMC group so the shotgun formation of BL really did Rover and Triumph no favours at all. Thank you for all the effort put into this video.

Australia very nearly got everything you didn’t. The Leyland P76 - great handling and all Australian development of the 3.5 to 4.4 litre (an engine that is still sought after and was planned for the Range Rover). We nearly had a coupe version the Force 7V with several survivors and a single Estate (wagon). As a bonus the P76 blitzed all crash testing and Belgium Pave test setting new standards. The P8 was never part of the P76 project totally different design and test teams. P76 was an entirely Australian effort.

I like the look of the P8, design wise it would've been a natural evolution between the P6 and the SD1. Surprised it performed so badly in crash testing, given how advanced Rover was at the time.

Really fascinating. So they were very technical and should have heralded Rover as premium but the looks? They don’t seem to reflect the sophistication underneath. Such a shame. Brilliant job yet again sir 👍

Also maybe the car was just all "too much" too advanced, too different. I like the aspects of the SD1 simple suspension, known mechanics, beautiful looking, and in fact if at the start of production they were built well and they could have produced them in quantity (no strikes), im sure they would have had a world beater. Merging everything into BL was a totally bad idea, if this wouldn't have happened, i think they would now be a part of JLR. But you never know they might be the British BMW.

Nice video mate. Would it have been as succses if Rover would have stayed they own master is a very good question. I think it deepends on two things. 1 could have been if there would have been no strikes and 2nd if they would have signifikantly changed the crash test results. It could problibly made it if the plaform of the car would have been used through the entier range of Rover so that this dna could live and breath

Cool video report on your own personal style 🤗👍

Sweeet great content. The styling language of the prototypes chime with the Range Rover and later SD1 and would have been very perfect for the 80s. Sadly Leyland merger ment that was never meant to be. I think the P76 is an interesting look into.

The P8 looks to have a few design cues in common with the Australian Leyland Force 7

Love it mate

The P8 looks like a Mazda / Nissan on Steroids with a backend of a Ford Zodiac ..Great vid.

Great video! I think the P8 would have struggled to replace the P6 as well as the P5, it's too large and bulky. I've seen sketches of a Rover version of the Austin 3-Litre on Aronline, it would be interesting to find out where they fit in with the P8 plans.

P8 looks Great,,good advertising slogan, the front looks very Capri V6 12.38,and the profile from the A pillar rearward is very Holden HQ from Aus.yes the 4.4 litre V8 was used in the P76,and later leftovers were utilised by people doing upgrades of Stags and similar

It did not so much kill Rover as Triumph with its failure, because its cancellation saw Solihull bet the farm on the SD1 which was very much a replacement for the Trimuph 2000/2500 as well as the P6. Not only that but the SD1 so soaked up cash as its development and bringing it to production ran massively over budget starving the TR7 and SD2 development of cash and resources which impacted badly on the formers quality and delayed the latter which meant it eventually died in the Ryder Plan car crash. Another thing that killed the P8, was that the XJ6 / 12 was just so exceptionally good that the P8 would had it come to production, been needed to sell at a substantially lower price point than the Jaguar to justify its existence.

Looks like a Datsun 180B sss, to me. Big and masculine. I like it.

I can't remember if you were going to do an update of the SD for the 2020's. If so, that would be so interesting especially with the American market in mind. Cheers

P8 is an interesting one....always easy to imagine the positive version of the potential outcome which is possible but in reality optomistic. It was a complicated car with styling which was very much of the moment which would have dated extremely quickly. It was powered by a revised larger version of the V8 which was unproven & would have landed when people didn't really want gas guzzlers...chances of it doing well were fairly slim. When you consider that the Ford Consul/Granada was basically on the same timeline & sold more units than Rover could ever hope for it tells a very clear story. I think the real shame is how far the project continued before being canned. It really was extremely close to production & I've spoken with people who were working at Solihull plant during the period. The fact that it got so far when everything was in such turmoil shows what a state the company was in.

As a aussie the p76 was classed ahead of its time with wipers below the bonnet a huge boot that could take 44 gallon drums and tye light weight 3.5 v8 but they say it could have been more refined if bmc allowed another 6 months devolopment and even the force 7 2 door was killed off by bmc and only 6 made it out the factory

Looks like a cross between a Datsun and a Chrysler 2L. In fact it looks absolutely of it's time, and styling wise, it's really quite ordinary IMHO. Hillman Hunter, Hillman Avenger, Morris Marina, they were all "3 Box Saloons" as the saying was at the time. The SD1 was far more futuristic (but ugly in my view). If the P8 failed it's crash test, and it was going to be (as you say) cannibalising sales from Jaguar which was then in the same group, I think it was a no-brainer. It had to be cancelled. When you consider all the costly re-prototyping work that would have been needed to pass the crash test, it was just a cold, plain business decision. Sad, but at least the Rover V8 came of it!

The Rover P8 looks like a cross between a Rover P6 and the Triumph 2000 so in a way we got the P8 but as two separate models. If had been produced would have sold? Probably fewer models than the P6 and 2000 combined.

Spen King shoulda just been 'The Gaffer''. Sorted!

The safety issues of the P8 come as something of a revelation, especially as the P6, according to Wikipedia, garnered several safety awards. It beggars belief that despite all the technical innovations no one thought to ensure that the structure was safe in a collision! (A premonition of the Rover Metro/100 years later). The glimpse of the interior is interesting as it is obviously a precursor to the SD1. As for its external styling, when seeing "scoop" pictures in the motoring press I remember thinking that it somehow didn't look right and would have dated quickly. If David Bache was responsible then he must have had an off day as he certainly regained his mojo with the SD1. Shame that was wrecked by poor quality and management as BL went down the pan.

I think it’s a great looking car. Quite different. Love it 👌

If you look at the Leyland P76 and Austin Tasman/Kimberley, the design ekements are somewhat familiar 🤔

I’m such a massive Rover fan (I’m lucky to have a Series One P6 3500), but I’m glad that this car didn’t make it to production. I know it was very in-sync with the times in terms of styling, but what made the P4, P5 and P6 so great (I’ll throw the SD1 in as well) was that they looked like absolutely nothing else on the road when they were launched. They all seemed like the car of the future at the time. The P8 had the tech, but the styling is a melting pot of every mid-1970s British car. The P8 is trying to be too many things; the P6 and P5 catered for completely different markets, so it made no sense to combine them into one. In many ways, BL were more successful at engineering the spec of the SD1 to allow it to be attainable to different markets. I love the engineering behind the P8, but I don’t think it would have been so well received at the time.

This was not the demise of Rover. The P10 (SD1) was a fantastic success. It was what came after that caused the issues. The Rover 800 was also a great car.

So sad that the best feature of post-War Rovers was the American engine! Lousy management and outdated union structures were apparent from the latter days of the Leonard Lord era at B.M.C., and Lord's fatal mistake was the promotion of of the pleasant but dim George Harriman simply because Harriman's dad had been an old mate. These events from twenty-odd years earlier than the P8 had already cast the die into which the death-rattlers Stokes and Edwardes were shaped. I always wonder why no real efforts were made to make much more use of the Turner/Daimler V8 engines........

Well done. M.

The P8 Rover , looks a lot like the Datsun 180B could've been a success if British Leyland did go SNAFU

Think Maserati nicked the design later? Was impressed by the Montego. Handsome car!

If British Leyland management had overseen the brands better at the time let the marques flourish. Instead of cancelling a fair quantities Rover would possibly be still trading today, and what also did not help matters was the media coverage of British Leyland as well as government involvement selling off all the companies at the time such as British Telecom etc as well as the strikes of the 70’s was one of the first nails in the coffin sadly.

What test track do we see at 10:53?

Rover had lots of options. That Buick 213 CID engine could put out over 600hp in race trim. Their biggest problem was the quality issues after British Leyland took over. Rover wasted a lot of money on gas turbine development but the P6 saved the company. They could have worked on a twin cam 4 or 6 cylinder engine too but British Leyland never did that. The Rovers were always basically upper middle class saloons and the competition was fierce when the SDI came out.

In the 90s, Rover had the chance to become more or less Honda's luxury brand (as Lexus is for Toyota). I still own a beautiful 827 coupe with the 2.7L V6 from Honda. End of the day, they got sold to BMW and left to die. Such a shame...

What's the story with the white P6 crashed by the side of the road ? It has a wonderful dash, a whole line of dials at 11:00.

I have to say...the P8 was really ugly. When i first saw the car on photos i thought it was the test mule, but...no, that was how it was supposed to look like! Even if it had made it into production i doubt that it would have been a huge success.

I'm afraid the Rover could never compete with a Jaguar XJ, I had, and still have both.

Shame the proper investment was not put into BL, like the French did with Renault and look at them now.

It doesn’t matter if it would have worked or not, it would have be poorly made and would have lost out to foreign competition, my late father in law bought a brand new SD1 V8 in 1981 from Bristol street motors and they forgot to fit the rear shock absorbers! Then its drivers door card fell off along with other non starting wows, it was gone after 6 months and he bought German, the rest is history

Apart from the front having a slight Jensen Interceptor look I think the P8 looks chunky and horrible. After you showed the poor crash test results its as well it wasnt made. On reflection of a previous Video on the Rover P6 BS it would have been flimsy in a crash as well, as the roof supports would have given way in a roll over crash.

It’s got hints of a early Datsun Laurel & Toyota Crown

British business has not changed much at all still in the same state, Post office is one example

If you ask me this rover P8 looks an awful lot like a Bristol. Take a look at a Bristol Beaufighter car and you can see what i mean.

There were engineering errors . The car cabin should be a safety cage. The A pillar is too weak. And in a crash the cabin should slide over the engine. Basic structural issues with simple solutions. The crash tests of the American cars from 1959 to 1961 with their panorama windscreens and weak A pillars should have been a lesson that structural engineer should have learned. And the roof collapsed. The A pillar should be connected to the rear pillar like a roll cage that prevents the cabin from collapsing. So the monocoque body needs some development. It's not as if new mass production tooling is needed in a hurry. Pity. It could have been a great car that would be worth a lot on today's classic car market. I suppose that the Triumph Dolomite filled that niche. Had to have a car that could compete with a BMW..

Ugly car. Plus it would have gone head to head with the incredible MB' W123 series. Wouldn't have stood a chance.

I remember that Rover developed an Audi style in line 5 cylinder based on the 2 litre four.

Was the styling copied from the Jensen Interceptor? Same as they did later with the SD1 / Ferrari Daytona

There was too much in fighting within the different groups pretending to be under one umbrella.

I think the P8 are a design of its time. Compared to other cars at the time is it a muscle car for the driver that have a family. It remines on later American cars. I hope the P8 soon are restored. I think it wouldn't compeat so hard with Jaguar bout rather with americaan and german cars. It was a lost chanse as well as the P9. Actually ut is rumerd that the P10 (SD1) has more or less the P8 base structure and the its a lot of a low cost P8 in s mor mordan shape. I think the P8, P9 and P10 in a slitly mordinised design could be out in the market today. They was so ahed of its time. Sorry for my poor spelling.

It looked the part from the rear, a little Mercedes like but the overall body shape says ‘Morris Marina’ and coupled with that, it looks like it has got twenty bags of cement in the boot. You just never know how sales would have done, if the Allegro could sell any number with that hideous styling, it’s anyone’s guess. I thought the Buick V8 had been brought over much earlier, as it was in the P5B?

If there had already been a 3.5 litre P6, how can a straight-six have been a problem in the P7?

No it's utterly ghastly

Otherwise known as the Jensen Interceptor Saloon !!

The rear end was definitely used on the Morris Marina.

I think the p8 looked awkward somehow, I like the front, the back is ok, the middle is horrible

So many great Marks were swallowed up by British Leyland. Rover was a fantastic company that made some really good cars. Unfortunately now their reputation is tarnished because it was the Brand that BL chose to use in their death throws. I think Rover should be judged on the cars they made as an independent manufacturer and not as the failure of the entire British Industry renamed as them.

Rear c pillar looks horrible…not a fan of this one..( SD1 owner in the US)

Where are the blue prints, bring back the P6 v8 👍👍👍

Having a 4.0l V8, it would most likely have been a victim of the oil crisis which came shortly after its development.

Sd1 100 percent yhe right car at the right time . Unfortunately the state of the art paint shop arrived 2,3years later, which ment painting it in the kind of industrial paint shop that led to frequent ill health and short life spans. No wonder staff were not of a mind to pay much attention. Dodgy build quality killed a proper contender.

For the record, I don't believe that P8 would have emerged in that shape.

I don't like the styling of the P8. Not sure if it would have succeeded. It's a bit of a styling mishmash, needing further work.

The demise of the Rover group was predominantly due to strike action. Not a week went by when some sort of "dispute" stopped production. The P8 was just ugly, badly designed and built. The final cars, the "75" series, could have saved Rover, they were superb cars, but with awful engines. The car should have been made with a V8 topping the range, and 3 litre V6 power plants for the rest. No diesels, no 4 cylinder rubbish, just a refined luxury cruiser. The "75" could have ruled the industry. Witness the demand for the 289cu-in V8 powered cars that were built - but what did Rover do? They dropped the car! Just stupid.

Would've been better if they'd cancelled this sooner and still had the money to make the SD1 more advanced.

Sir William lyons pushed to have this car canceled

with factories all over the country, the individual parts of bmc infighting over who made what, cars in direct competition with each other, crash test typical the went on to make the dreaded maxi,and marina, absolutely garbage! the 2000 was stunning and 10 years ahead of its time!

If the cast iron engines were too heavy, couldn't they have tried using aluminium castings for the block and head?

I don't think that this car would have been nearly as successful as the SD1. It has sort of ok looks in a nondescript Australian sort of way, and given that BL badly needed cash, would have had to have been sold in the BMW E3/Merc S-Class W116 sector, which was a big ask. There was no economy version which would have hit it hard in 1973, requiring Rover to produce a P6 2,2 litre engined version on the hoof, preferably with fuel injection. The suspension was very clever but expensive to produce, severely limiting the pricing envelope even in the executive market. What worries me most is Rover's very limited penetration of the continental market despite the true design excellence of the P6. This would have further hampered the success of the P8, an "unknown quantity". In France and Italy its engine would have been hammered by taxation, in Germany it would have been up against the above two plus the new Audi 100, Spain was still under Franco. Nope, I really don't see the P8 retrospectively as in any way a missed opportunity. The SD1 was far better and designed by the same team. I notice that they reused the P8 concept instrument panel in the SD1.

Does look a bit American on some angles Tom like at the back