^

really we can use cotton and it gives us the same result ?

Thanks so much! That means a lot. Making a textbook might be something I do one day, but I feel like it's probably something to work on after I finish my chemistry degree (which seems like it might be a long way off at this stage...).

Glad it was helpful!

Very nice, I've always found KOH very difficult to find. As for your questions, I'm actually in Australia, and I believe I got the alligator clips from Jaycar electronics, it was a while ago though so I might be wrong.

That's easy, he got the alligator clips from an alligator. There's one species whose jaw is made of stainless steel, just go hunt that one.

It would work, but having such small channels for current to pass through would diminish the reaction rate significantly.

Glad you found it helpful! There's nothing too complicated about neutralising chlorine. In this video, we just lead the chlorine into a sodium hydroxide solution. As it passes through, it reacts with the solution to form bleach, preventing the chlorine from being released as a gas.

@@ScrapScience thank you so much… iv bin trying to understand that for few days lol!! Im going to try this experiment today:) iv learned alot from you.. keep up the good work friend!

Yep. In fact, I talk about just that at 29:04

@@ScrapScience won't the sulph-uric acid react with the clay pot and damage it or probly carry impurities with it?

@Divad Ignawm It turns out that the clay in clay pots won't actually react with sulfuric acid, they hold up very well to most acids and bases.

I'd love to eventually, I'm currently working on a larger scale cell which should produce Cl2/H2/NaOH at a faster rate, and if I ever figure out how to combine H2 and Cl2 safely, I'll definitely give it a go. I think I already have a UVC LED which should be ideal for initiating the reaction.

@@ScrapScience what about you burn the hydrogen, add chlorine to water to get hydrochloric acid and hypochlorous acid, and put it under strong sunlight for hypochlorous acid to break down into hydrochloric acid and oxygen gas H2O (l) + Cl2 (g) -----> HCl (aq) + HClO (aq) 2HCl(aq) ----sunlight----> 2HCl (aq) + O2 (g)

@@ScrapScience the reason why i suggest this method is because mixed hydrogen gas and chlorine gas can explode under sunlight, so i would suggest a safer process. Hope this helps.

That's definitely very cool! I did a quick search for some articles on the topic and as far as I can tell, it looks relatively feasible to do without too much fancy equipment (though the yield might be considerably reduced when using clay pot separators instead of ion exchange membranes). Hopefully I'll get onto trying to make some gas diffusion electrodes soon, then I'll definitely be keen to give this a go. Thanks for the idea!

Yes the gas diffusion electrodes and membranes seem to be somewhat expensive. Do they last a long time ? Take a look at this Patent it´s very interesting US4357217A. You are welcome I am curious to see more videos from you :)

Sorry for the late reply, only just saw your second comment. The patent certainly looks very doable I think, as does the paper linked with it. Hopefully the electrodes should last a while, as cathodes I think they should as they aren't under oxidising conditions and don't seem to contain a catalyst. I've just finished making a simple gas diffusion electrode which should hopefully work for this, so once I get a little more equipment I'll definitely give this a go.

No worries it´s ok. As it seems 9% is made in the paper but it doesn´t say you can´t make 30%. So it would be really cool If it goes that high. You don´t need to buy it anymore just switch on your power and make some :D I also have an idea how to store it forever. Do you know If H2O2 reacts with carbonates ?. You could make barium peroxide from barium carbonate and store it dry until you need H2O2 then you just have to dissolve it in water and filter the barium hydroxyde out again and use it later.

Seawater generally isn't a good idea, as your product wiuill halways contain some impurity as a result. If you want to make a bigger cell, you can watch my other video on the topic: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8B4aMlzlc-xZ4k.html

From the back of the box: Dried Glucose Syrup (From Corn), Gelling Agents: Carrageenan. Locust Bean Gum, Stabilisers: Potassium Chloride, Calcium Acetate. If you don't have access to vegetarian gelatin, you also have the option of using agar or carboxymethyl cellulose which work in a similar fashion. If you're really stuck, you can use any semi-porous membrane like cotton, fibreglass, or even a clay pot, which all last much longer than any gel (but at the cost of slight contamination between the cells).

Not quite. It would be very similar, but in that case, the cathode should actually be the mercury itself (ie. instead of having the cathode on the right hand side sitting above the mercury, it should directly contact the mercury to supply current straight to the liquid metal). For a mercury cell like this, it is only in the left chamber that electrolysis should occur, where chlorine is liberated on the carbon anode, and sodium metal is dissolved in the mercury cathode. Once dissolved in the mercury, the sodium should migrate over (this would probably require stirring the mercury somehow) and redissolve into the water of the right hand chamber, forming sodium hydroxide. It's definitely a process I'd avoid to stay clear of any mercury contamination.

@@ScrapScience I hear ya lol. Thankyou for reply. However I ask to explore the science behind it. But I doubt I will. You should check out my channel. It's a chemistry channel also I'm still very small yet. Got some good videos tho. Stay safe mate.

I'm afraid stainless steel isn't really an option for the chloralkali process. While stainless steel does well under anodic potential in extremely basic solutions, a chloride solution is a whole different story. When used as an anode in a chloride solution (regardless of current density), the corrosion rate is so fast that virtually no chlorine is generated, and instead the solution fills with soluble iron and chromium which contaminate your hydroxide product considerably. There are many things that stainless steel works well for, but chloride electrolysis is such a harsh environment that it doesn't quite cut it.

@@ScrapScience ah, didn't know that. thanks for the tip!

@@ScrapScience The commercial chor-alkali plant I operated used titanium anodes with a proprietary coating (contained platinum and rhodium and maybe some other exotic metals). We still had to be careful, as even these would break down if operated at too high a voltage. It used mild steel cathodes, though the cathodes were problematic, as any leakage of chlorine to the cathode side would cause corrosion, and contaminate the product with rust.

Only a small amount, as the hypochlorite ions are oxidised to chlorate quickly after they are generated. The electrolysis never really generates a useful quantity of bleach, nor is it ever pure enough for use as bleach.

@@ScrapScience Do the hypochlorite and chlorate (and hydrogen) ions not go through the gelatin membrane? Because Cl2 dissolves in HCl and HClO

@@ScrapScience The chor-alakli plant I operated was used to make sodium hypochlorite. But it used membrane cells, and the chlorine and NaOH were reacted in a seperate vessel. For one thing the cells operated at too high a temperature (150-170 degrees F) for hypochorite production, the NaOH solution was cooled and then the chlorine from the anode side was bubbled into it. Another consideration is that, in order to be stable, sodium hypochlorite requires excess NaOH. The system I operated had a pH probe and additional NaOH was added for stability. In order to make stabe hypochlorite with a chlor-alkali system, you have to either use additional NaOH or divert some of the chlorine to another use. Higher temperatures and lower pH favor chlorate over hypochlorite. Sodium hypochlorite under the best conditions (low temperature, low concentration, high pH, no metal contaminants) is not very stable. It tends to break down either to sodium chlorate, or to salt and oxygen.

As a matter of fact, I have an entire video on optimising this reaction in terms of the concentration, voltage, current, and reaction times. You can find it here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hdh1hM5ztN7RqJs.html On top of that, you can also find a video where I build a functioning cell for producing reasonable quantities of hydroxide here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8B4aMlzlc-xZ4k.html

What you've made really depends on a few factors. What were your electrodes made of? Which one was the cathode/anode? Which chamber did you expect to get product in? What was the container made from in which you ran the cell? And, how much current did you run through the cell and for how long? I'm afraid I can't really help without more info.

Chlorine smell and yellowish color is consistent with sodium hypochlorite. Color could also be iron or other metal contamination from anode or cathode.

it was sucsexful.

Kind of, but the efficiency is terrible. I have a video on that here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aMeCmZOluNuanZc.htmlsi=U7B-zK0Wmdge1Nb1

One of these days I'll be brave enough

It certainly can, and it'll work very well. Unglazed terracotta is essentially the same stuff as the clay pot I talked about at 29:04.

no its carbon

no it's teat-anium. or tight-anium.

A shorter (or a larger cross sectional area) membrane will drastically decrease the resistance of the cell at a given voltage. This allows for the cell to be run at a lower voltage for any given production rate, increasing the efficiency (based on energy usage). Basically, a shorter membrane makes the process quicker, and more efficient.

@@ScrapScience Does a shorter membrane not hinder the effectivity, making OH travel to the anode even easier?

Well, technically yes. However, the dissolution of chlorine in water will be very slow (hydrogen peroxide won't help anything here), and taper off over time, so the concentration of acid at the end of the reaction will be very low. Also, the dissolution of chlorine also produces hypochlorous acid in equal amounts as it generates hydrochloric acid, which is a considerable and highly undesirable impurity in most cases.

Here is a link I found. Needs to be revised, involves electrolysis of salt water I don't know how that would work. Hope it helps you get closer to what you need. sciencing.com/make-sodium-chlorite-5188671.html

Great questions! 1) Putting brine in both chambers would work perfectly fine, the sodium ions would migrate to the cathode and chloride ions would migrate to the anode as you'd expect. The problem, however, is that this migration of ions never actually reaches completion, so there will always be some residual chloride contamination in the NaOH product when performing the reaction this way. Just putting the salt into the anode chamber avoids this, as the only reactant entering the cathode chamber becomes the sodium ions, allowing for pure NaOH to be generated. 2) Copper doesn't actually react with NaOH solutions under normal conditions, so corrosion/dissolution doesn't occur. Even if copper did react with NaOH, being used as a cathode makes it 'cathodically protected', making it much more resistant to oxidation.

@@ScrapScience thanks alot!Yesterday i made some NaOH in quite small quanities buit it worked!Thanks for great video and thanks for great explanation.

​@@ScrapScience I was wandering about this as well. Most of the sources I've found describing the diaphragm method state that brine is introduced into the anode chamber and allowed to flow into the cathode chamber. There's no suggestion of anything initially being in the latter. And, since historically the diaphragm of choice was asbestos, wouldn't the brine find it's way to the cathode sooner or later in any case? As I've understood it, the contamination of NaOH is simply dealt with afterwards when using this method. I did try your method successfully, but I used gelatinized potato starch in place of vegetable gelatin, and it took a long time to get going properly. Will be using in the future though should I want to make clean NaOH, for now I'm more interested in the chlorine and hydrogen :)

A few decades ago. I operated a small membrane cell commercial chlor-alkali plant for the production of sodium hypochorite (the cholrine and sodium hydroxide were combined in a seperate reactor). On startup, we would put sodium hydroxide in the cathode side. This would keep the conductivity up until it started producing its own sodium hydroxide.

@@michaelgates991 The biggest disadvantage to the old asbestos diaphragm cells was that the NaOH produced had quite a bit of salt contamination. Most of the salt would precipitate out when the NaOH was concentrated, but there would still be a significant amount of salt in a 50% NaOH solution.

I have other videos on scaling up this process here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hdh1hM5ztN7RqJs.html kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8B4aMlzlc-xZ4k.html

Yep, the hypochlorite sure does. At concentrations like this, it's usually slow enough such that you can still get a pH reading if you're quick though.

Yep. In fact, I talk about doing that at 29:04 I've also made another video where we give it a go: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/n8B4aMlzlc-xZ4k.html

@@ScrapScience Thanks

You can use a sheep cecum, a lambskin condom if can tolerate PRICE think have to wash surface, used with palladuim diluted acids. Was looking for a longer term solution, test tube shaped porous ion exchange proton well hydrogenation. H2. Probably cost him 12-20 🇺🇸 $ or conversion as of now where live fiat numbers. Could heat and drop tube pipe borosilicate 3.3. Only have 8 inch 20mm 8mm left gas tube. Hope can make palladium electrode needs high surface area. Can't find but in grams, and expensive for hobby. Neverctsught green electrochemistry or microwave ultrasonic. Just organic, lab had all guy drove into ground to steal ipo money and make golden parachute. Told me to sabotage steal precious metals spend, neverxdid made neural growth factor as undergrad with MD PhD. We could all use or know one could. Love folks sharing knowledge, when world is so poor outside west.

Ideally, no, it shouldn’t have a hole. Those types are pretty tricky to find though, so it’s often necessary to simply plug the hole with a stopper or some silicone.

I'm afraid it's not feasible. Even if it were legal and I actually wanted to do it, a self-sustaining nuclear reaction from the americium in smoke detectors would require at least ten billion smoke detectors, and that's being very generous with the numbers.

Yeah, cloth or sponge is also a great idea, thanks! Also good luck if you end up making those lead dioxide electrodes

He already made a potassium chlorate cell, the procedure should be identical for sodium chlorate

experimental then eh

why dont you just update the potentials, no freaking overpot

try ionized electromagnetic separation methods

u-tube, insulated, high voltage static electric charged, y-tube, to feed in, u-tube outputs are electrons and ions

solid state electrolyte

If you choose to watch any of the more recent videos I've made (anything within the past 20 months or so), I'm sure you'll be a lot more satisfied with the stability of the footage.

Translation: I was too stupid to understand