This tierlist is flawed. How could you create a endtag tierlist that does not take into cosideration map color of the end tag. This is the most important thing in my map painting game.

Forming Lotharingia as Burgundy? Yawn. Forming Lotharingia as Lorraine? REAL SHIT

I love tier lists, if only they could be applied to human society

France was such a strong non-endtag country before the patch

The longest end game tag chain for achievement-eligible games I could find was (Crusader Teutons) -> Ethiopia -> Aksum -> Mongol Empire (requires Holy Horde government from Crusader Teutons) -> Rome -> Holy Rome (requires monarchy) for five total. Managing Imperial Authority in the late game to unite the HRE would be painful.

Forming Persia then forming Eranshahr lets you keep the better Persian ideas. Don’t know if that makes them better or worse but it is probably the best way to min max

Ok but consider for a moment that commonwealth is the only tag in the game that lets you do a sheep genocide WC, who turns all wool provinces into cloth provinces

If you want to debate me on discord about the placements, feel free to do it here: discord.gg/mKYUGQaKk4

The eu4 Canada flag is inspired by the original Canadian flag, which had the three conjoined maple leaves. Also spain gets an obscene amount of PUs, imo it's A

The pope being on the same level as colonial tags is crazy tbh

I am a somewhat experienced player, and I still can't see how the Mughals is the best contender for a WC. I did my first WC as Oirat->Yuan->Mongol empire after a few failed attempts as the Mughals, and it seemed almost trivial in comparison. Great video as always though!

Never thought about doing an Alaska campaign that could be interesting. Go half into Asia, Go half into North America. Then take it from there.

I would put Commonwealth at least in the A tear due to their permanent modifiers you can get when playing as Lithuania or Poland and their missions are really fun. Also suggestion for future tier lists, when talking add nations ideas and maybe even missions if possible, would make it more interesting to listen to.

Korea into japan is funny, love my Croatia/Dalmatia and Khmer/Siam Im cooked for bad starts (but the dev cost 🔥)

I feel like GB should be atleast A, keep in mind it's mission tree is very strong and it's a tag that has HUGE money making potential, both by trade and production. Also it bas8cally gets +5discipline via missions, the discipline only affects marines, you also get rid of the +10shock, but in my last GB campaign my main armies were only marines so I'd say that counts.

I have actually played a Rozwi Empire game, wasnt really anything special, and that is why i only did it once, it really doesn't deserve being an end game tag. But at least there is an achievment.

Babe wake up, new Lemon Cake just dropped

You can get the royal fires as normal Zoro Persia btw, so imo Eranshahr is B-tear (weaker ideas), and Persia is S-tier, since you can get all of the Eranshahr buffs anyway

51:55 Ottomans can westernize too, but by the you can do it a good player would already wc, and a bad one wouldn't go through the disasters anyway...

18:32 As a Pole I am always confused when I hear word "sejm" pronounced the way you did, because you pronounce it noway near how it is pronounced. And I know that so many people do the same mistake, but it is so far off that I cannot register it as common misspelling and each time I spend too long to admit just to realize what somebody is talking about. For future reference Polish word "sejm" is pronounced almost identical to English word "same". As for the PLC being an end-tag I always though that PLC should have some kind of mini-Mughal mechanics. Because while everybody know about Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth not many are aware that Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian Commonwealth almost happened and Polish-Lithuanian-Muscovite Commonwealth was also briefly proposed. Also I always though that it would be cool if Sarmatia was a formable tag, thing "the final form of PLC", when you can form it only if you have low absolutism, high nobility loyalty, you are Catholic and you have blob enough.

The Ethiopian mission tree lets to flip to western tech group western units

Concerning the Mongol Empire: this might be a known thing, I just don’t know why this happens to me… in my Oirat > Yuan > Mongol Empire runs, once I get to form Yuan and I can raise banners in my Sino-Altaic provinces, I start culture converting other provinces to be able to raise more banners, as one does. While I am Yuan, I do not have to convert the religion of a province to tengri before being able to convert its culture. However, as soon as I become the Mongol Empire, I must convert the religion of a province before I convert its culture. Has anyone else noticed this?

Great list!!

loved this video and many of your other ones idk if they patched this but samurai regiments cost double the manpower to replenish so while they're super strong they drain your manpower a lot

Something fun you can do with andalusia is form Andalusia as... Castile! Yes, there is no checksum that prevents the Reconquister from Re-reconquisting himself! You can get the sweet bonuses from Castile's insane OP mission tree, PU half of Europe, then flip to Sunni and form Andalusia for that sweet 15% CCR (though, if you were trying to be a sweaty minmaxer it is far superior to form something else or just continue to Spain)

Take a shot every time he says, "With that being said" 😂 Great video, dude, keep it up ✌️

Not that this is a complaint. But. If you play as milian to form Italy then you can obtain basically everything that the other major candidate's to form Italy can have (note that I'm excluding nations like Aragon that require a culture shift to become Italy at all, in addition to nations like Venice and genoa that don't have a way to be formed). To start with. Milan has the unique republic option of the Ambrosian republic. With a culture shift Milan can become Sardinia-piedmont for its goods produced and admin efficiently (surprisingly you don't need to be a monarchy to form Sardinia-piedmont, at least according to the wiki) and it's among the quickest options milan has. Sardinia-piedmont can form Tuscany via culture shift for its free diplomat and or ideas (it's the second fastest to culture shift as milian, however if you prioritize Tuscany it is slightly quicker to do it's missions). Lastly you can become 2 sicilies for its tolerance of the true Faith (it's probably the one that will take longest to culture shift to because of Aragon. And if not Aragon then castle because of the Iberian wedding, and if not then because of Naples getting unrealistic allys). the choice of national ideas is up to the player however the Ambrosian republic is exclusive to milian and milian isn't a formable (and even then you still have to choose to be that republic in a disaster that either happens early in the game or mostlikely never. and you usually at least get close to bankruptcy at least once because of the disaster if you don't plan things well enough, also you will tend to be out of manpower most of the very early game unless you play tall/very patently) assuming you make it to that point, you could easily be at least a significant early to mid-game threat to Spain and the ottomans while being an early challenge for France

Ethiopia/Aksum is actually underrated. Specifically the Cawa units. They have -50% land attrition, combine that with either quantity or defensive ideas, plus some well placed forts, and you can bleed even powerful ottomans dry by just sieging and counter sieging, walking through low supply territory, etc.

I haven't watched the vid but Eranshahr is kinda insane for one faith and generally just a fun nation, tho ideas are super mid

I would argue that PWSCR is one of the big 3 modifiers for a blobbing SP campaign (and arguably the single best one), and that alone puts Aksum into B-tier for we. You could go for some whacky peace deals with Aksum + Malta Forts + Diplo Ideas + Revolutionary CBs + Imperial Principle. No CCR or Administrative Efficiency stings, but as long as you're Coptic you get 10% CCR from your religion at least. For Andalusia, if you start as Morocco first you can pick up a permanent 2.5% Discipline bonus from their missions first before forming Andalusia. As for the Angevins ... their name puts it in the F tier. No government types in the country name. Arabia is neat if you can form it before tech 20, but if not ... just form Rum or Persia or Mughals. Byzantium ... hear me out: Muscovy (for the 15% CCR event) into Byzantium (for 25% CCR) taking Admin Ideas (another 25% CCR) and lategame becoming a revolutionary republic with Three Social Classes (-10% CCR). The easiest way to get sub-10 month cores and revolutionary CBs at the same time. Personally, I like the LPC better than the PLC. You still get Poland for semi-free (just have to eat the AE for the PU), but also can do the Lithuanian missions before the Polish ones. Meaning you get a Commonwealth that also has a PU over Muscovy/Russia. You also bypass all the Sejm nonsense. That's a consolidation of eastern Europe the PLC just can't quite replicate. In my opinion the PLC also goes a bit too far into the military, the LPC is a bit more balanced which I prefer. For Germany, I feel the ability for the Teutons to form Germany at Tech 10 should be mentioned. That's just absolutely bonkers OP. The MP GB grindset: Give up European land, pick Naval and/or Maritime, make all the money in the world while financing the idiots fighting each other on the mainland with all that excess money you are making so that you can take the stuff you want in peace as nobody can touch your mainland. Wait, that's just historical Britain. The problem with Hindustan is that at least in SP Indian Muslims except the Mughals (and even then...) are borderline unviable. All those great Hindu monuments are too juicy to just give up on. And for SP Hindustani ideas are just not that great, that Indian trade node setup does not lend itself to playing tall. Bahmanis -> Deccan -> Hindustan can be decent, but that's waiting on a tech 20 formable when any Indian major can unify the subcontinent a century earlier. And good lord are Bahmani ideas a stinker. The HRE is F-tier. The vassal swarm is infinitely better. There's some fringe cases where uniting the HRE is worthwhile, but those are just that: fringe cases. Italy, one of the saddest victims of the powercreep of recent expansions. But I don't mind, I hate Italys idea set. For reference, a few years ago Italys ideas made it an S-tier tag. Lotharingia is probably the biggest victim of the recent powercreep. Sure, it might be fine to do so as Lorraine, but as Burgundy your first decades are basically spent replacing France, and forming France is just so much better than forming Lotharingia. Back in Emperor Lotharingia was actually great because it was one of the few ways to get early CCR in Christian Europe while starting from a powerful position. But with Domination France got -10% CCR itself and has just a lot more going for it. And the thing is, that idea set could be easily retooled into something more unique. Give Lotharingia some IA and other ways to make becoming the emperor a good choice, and have forming France as Burgundy auto-choose the kill the HRE path. The Rozwi can't be the Prussia of Africa ... because the Zulu are. Rum actually has more CCR than the Ottomans. It also gets an unique government reform with 10% CCR and -5% warscore cost. But otherwise, yeah, it's just the Ottomans in blue. And why form a tag that is essentially the Ottomans when you could just start as the Ottomans? I disagree with Siberian Frontiers being completely broken. Siberia is not worth the government cap to hold it, making Siberian Frontiers a literal nothing idea. Also trying to maintain Russia's forcelimit with holding the worst land in Eurasia and no economic bonuses to be found is a pain. (Admittedly I don't own Domination, so most of the recent brokenness doesn't apply to me.) That's not how the cavalry fire from Scandinavian mission works. it increases the Fire Damage of cavalry by 0.5. For reference, the maximum fire damage cavalry reaches is 1.0 starting at mil tech 22. So Scandinavias 0.5 cavalry fire essentially reads as +50% cavalry fire damage. That's why Siams cavalry is so absolutely busted as well. What I really like about Spain is that it fixes a problem that many formable tags have. A Germany game plays mostly the same no matter if it's formed from Austria or Dithmarschen. A Russia game plays the same no matter if it was formed by Muscovy or Novgorod of Odoyev. Castile-formed Spain and Aragon-formed Spain play very differently though, which is why Iberian campaigns are some of my favourites. And +1 artillery fire is a simply cracked bonus.

lemon missing that aksum with combining the mission tree has 50% max manpower.

i did do a Rozwi Empire campaign, specifically for the achievement and because i enjoy playing in Africa you can turn yourself into Zimbabwe and expand along the entire African cost for that Long Zimbabwe larp, 10/10

Man I dunno about ethiopia and aksum. Ethiopia is one of the rare cases that can actually flip you to western tech group, and combined with later getting aksum's really solid manpower modifiers I think there's at least something to be said for them.

It really not making any sense that Australia is an end game tag. I always had this idea of a Mamluks camping where I go colonial and just lose everything in egypt to Ottomans and then exile myself to Australia and form australia and then bulid my nation to retake the motherland form turks. Something like third odyssey but for the Mamluks. Well, that's not gonna happen.

France can get Military Hegemon absurdly early if it makes client states in Germany---(Influence/Mercenary policy)---which means an early dismantle which mean super-high dev. very early. It can get so powerful so quickly that you'll run out of rivals unless you deliberately keep them alive, and as France you do not want Britain or Spain alive except maybe as your subject.

You can form Engalnd, don't take the decision to form Angevian Empire, do the 5% admin efficiency mission and form something else, so it's not 100% fair to count them having that as unique

I will be making vegan lemon chiffon cake in your honor.

Imo losing the HRE vassal swarm did atleast bare a mention as a downside for HRE

Having actually played a mutapa game, zimbabwe as a tag just confuses me. You don't get access to any new missions compared to rozwi or mutapa, and for the price of becoming an endgame tag, you're gaining worse ideas than either of the tags who would form it. Gaining mildly better economy modifiers than mutapa, but trading 10% dev cost for 15% construction cost, or getting significantly worse military ideas than rozwi, for a somewhat better economy, but losing your yearly inflation reduction from both, which is important because your economy in that region is specifically built around all the gold you're going to have. It's unfortunate, because I actually find that mission tree kinda fun, restoring your former glory as mutapa or getting freedom and expanding as butua into rozwi, both getting development from all buildings built with an early mission. imo they should have just given butua the rozwi missions outright, made rozwi have upgraded butua ideas, and make that the zimbabwe equivalent for their missions, which should also have ideas that are at least just a strict upgrade to mutapa.

51:48 Aksum or Ethiopia also has this, being the first tag in eu4 since the olden days of westernisation to westernise your tech

I think nations like USA need more missions, although its late-game tag

Spain's unlockable unique Tier-1 reform is very good. Accepting this via the mission also overrides otherwise locked reforms. The big advantage of the Papal State is twofold: Good chance of being the curia controller though not guaranteed, and permaclaims on two of three end nodes. It has only a handful of permanent mission buffs. If you go Religious-Influence, you will never have trouble with vassal loyalty. You will spend your prestige placating vassals. Not disagreeing, though. Spain is a victim of power creep, as is the Papal State. It needs a much more robust RP mission tree. I hope it's included in the Italian region update this next DLC.

Yo you do know yuan gets sino altaic banners that function the exact same right?

25:22 ? Iirc France was not an end tag before they become an end tag But i guess i haven't played back when all of europe were end game tags

I mean you can play as Portugal and "form" Brasil through annexing your Brazilian colony which has the benefits of not having to fight an independence war or abandoning your European provinces Edit: although this does require a foreign country to occupy mainland Portugal to be able to click the decision Edit2: basically you keep Portuguese missions if I am correct so you not losing much although you do not get perm claims on Brasil colonial region when you form Brasil this way

I think Eranshahr should be knocked down a tier, persias ideas are just better as whole, and you can keep the persian ideas anyway so its more of a cosmetic formable Nothing changes if you choose to stay as persia, even if your zoroastrian

It's such a shame that countries such as Aksum, if not formed by Ethiopia, doesn't get unique missions. Hell, even Australia and Canada could at least have a few missions like U.S.One thing that Zimbabwe also has going for it, is the development gain from buildings, which is a really strong buff and unique by itself, perhaps bumping it a tier

Fun fact Al-Andalusia gets an event where they get a 1 permament colonist for free I think it can fire for Granath to

Mr Lemon, you should do a world conquest with sole intention of having the highest gold per turn possible at the end of the game

20:32 I would agree with you on this had they not cuck literally 3/4 of the mission tree if you dont form Poland I was so pissed when doing an Austria into many tag switch into High American HRE run because I thought i could milk Poland's branching mission tree

You Forgot the Strongest Formble, Zimbabwe!

Another thing that brings Australia down is that their Ideas are worse than many (if not all) native ideas. So as a native it's just no reason to form it since it would be better to form one of the SEA nations. If it wasn't an endtag it would be fine, just keep your old ideas and get claims on all of Australia, but since it's an endtag it is... just... REALLY bad.

I have played roswi. Was pretty fun, colonised Brazil.

I can tell haven't played Popeman much. It's actually great fun.

Can we get a tier list of breakfast foods?

Germany has two problems. One is that its unlocked way too late. And the only way around that is the teuton start. So Teutons are almost a must pick for a germany campaign while all other medium german tags have to discover that they own all of Germany far too late. And second is the mission tree (while strong) is very outdated. Its the old fashioned "get perma claims, conquer them, get more perma claims etc". Many other big endgame tags got amazing new flavourful missions but Germany seems to be stuck with the old stuff forever with EU5 on the horizon. Also the prussian government types are a pain for playing even somewhat wide.

As Canadian i got to ask, why is Canada an end game tag?

I think the minimum autonomy in territories is really funny for the us who has the White House monument reducing state governing cost.

Canada is an OP nation, they have a special modifier: Geneva to-do list

No province tier list? Shame Also which branch of France tree do you like

For all the updates to Nations and Mission Trees Paradox has done, it surprises me they have never bothered updating the Formable Colonial Nations, they are all pretty shit. And the crazy thing is that non-end tag nations like Texas are much better. They seriously need to update them. Either give them really strong ideas (since they only pop up after the mid 1600's) or interesting Mission Trees that incentivizes the player to Sunset Invasion Europe. Which can be quite fun and challenging.

As someone who loves Colonial games, seeing my beloved Andalusia and Spain both ending up in B hurts lol

Nah Ming is absolutely S tier, you can conquer most of the world as a pacifist!

East Africa in general got nerfed into the ground because certain people threw fits that non-European (and especially African) nations had strong ideas and monuments.

Wait, isn't Angevian pronounced with a J, like in Anjou? I would use the hard "g" in Magisterium and a "j" in Angevian, you must have it backwards! (non-native speaker btw)

how about north sea empire?

I am currently doing a Oman-Yemen-Arabia game and man Arabia is godam amazing endtag with the missionaryis I dont even need religus ideas to spread the Ibadi faith

I only disagree with one: Spain Spain has the second or third best government reform in the game, the system of council.

Didnt finish the video yet, but if you put byz below S, then it means you clearly havent done a orthodox-byz -> catholic-byz hre emperor with revoke privilegia -> back to orthodox-byz plus abusing the pronoiar system due to increased force limit -> roman empire -> hre campaign. KoK Byz might as well have been designed to abuse the HRE mechanics. It just meshes too well with the centralized path.

Don't agree but respect your point of view

Somebody has not moved capital to Japan & culture swapped as the pope and taken integrate the Sohei reform I see, batteru popu is indeed S tier!

It would have been better if you showed the ideas as well but nice video 😊

Aren't Ilkhanate and Golden Horde end tags as well ?

Mewgals :3

Yuan does gets manchu banners and its ideas are far better than qing thing it lacks is a good mission tree. Also if you form yuan after destroying mandate you keep your horde government

Yuan S tier for those bonkers ideas honestly, 25% core cost, 5% adm efficiency, and gov cap is wild. Scandinavia has one of the most overpowered idea sets in the game and IMO is also s tier, good missions, good military, good blobbing, good tall ideas, and even good navally. Also Russia technically has higher CCR than Mughals. 30% CCR from modifier and idea set, but they also get an extra 10% from maxed out govt reform. Mughals CCR caps out at 35% but Russia slightly edges it out at 40% at the cost of perma claims. Aforementioned govt reform at max power (Russian Empire) gives 10% dev cost on top of orthodox 10% dev cost which means playing tall is an alternative. Debatably you could place Russia above Mughals since Russia excels in both MP and SP

russia also gets 10% infantry combat ability + 10 ccr and 10% dev cost from government interaction, just to make them even more busted They also have streltsy, pretty much just better infantry (like tercios ig) I think the only problem russia has early on is the economy, but that might be a skill issue on my part, and the hordes can be annoying if they ally each other

Where’s castanoth? Black demense? Incomplete list tbb

I remember back when Yuan was considered the best tag in the game 💀

question from a noob isnt greece and italy an endtag ?

tldr: Bird flag gud

You forgot to mention that Mughals also give you access to the Indian Sultanate / Sharifate T1 reforms (if you didn't take broken ass Egypt Gov T1 before forming Mughals) and as such you get you a ton of Manpower & +5% CCR as well at the press of a button. So by default, they almost immediatelly reach 70% CCR!

if you know anything about Canadian history, us not having “heretic and heathen provinces give no penalties”… makes sense

Yuan B-tier? have you seen their national ideas? O_o

Poland also has 10% Inf combat ability. PLC has 15%.

you should have put their national ideas aside to see what they are

Formable tag tier list?

SPQR

The update that added the concept of an end tag was cringe, let people free form nations!

I find the HRE being S Tier poorly placed. Often, forming it is a downgrade from just revoking the privilegia

Whilst it may have been in the context of end tags, I have to disagree with the statement that the US is better than other colonial nations. Texas has arguably better ideas as well as not taking penalties for heretic/heathen provinces.

Ming→Shun(release and play)→Manchu→Qing

Where's ruthenia????

Bongo

Latin empire isn't end-game-tag? Huh, surprised

Commonblob being in B tier and Arabia & Bharat in A tier is a crime

No ireland???? #society

Germany can get the prussian monarchy

Downvoted for not making the US at least C-tier.

America is number 1 in terms of having incarcerated people per capita