Fun Fact: John Dvorak is an asshole, typical journalist criticizing things and never built or worked on anything in their life, if he's so smart why didn't he make his own company and computers, typical liberal asshole.

@@SPQR101010 "Liberal"? Have you ever listened to the guy? Lol, he's definitely NOT liberal. He was a Trump guy

@@SPQR101010 Aren't journalists supposed to be a bit incisive? As for liberals, I agree :)

@@SPQR101010 be nice if there journalists that didn't bullshit nowadays

@@chrischurch4551 Yes that goes without saying, just the way this guy presented himself without actually building out any technology himself was annoying, he could just say its not recommended for x,y,z reasons.

Shut up dude. Don't act like you knew the guy because you read something on Wikipedia about how he was a pioneer of computing before you were even born. It's pathetic.

Dvorak's entertainment value is enormous.

Elsewhere, Stewart has said this was one of his favourite episodes because f'wit John C couldn't put it back together.

Stewart anxiously watching John C continuing to mess with the PS/2, completely ignoring that the other guest while is trying to answer a question may be my favourite moment in the history of this show. The fact John C can't stop messing with it even after everyone has dropped heavy hints he's supposed to stop is peak Dvorak.

@@medes5597 he’s literally trying not to bust out laughing lol

Looks like He's about as old as Adam is now in this 😅

new watermelon bublay

LOL, Yup, John always has to be a little sensational.

You can tell that gary was a pro. After what IBM did to him and to keep his cool was a real gentleman move. PS: sorry to reply to an olf post.

@@nelhern2677 IBM did nothing to Kildall except not giving him a contract. He got dozens of other contracts for CP/M from computer manufacturers, including Amstrad, Sinclair Research, Microsoft (yes, Microsoft, with their SoftCard for Apple ii), Microbee, Atari, Osbourne, and numerous others, but still couldn't leverage that into becoming a major software player, due to his own business incompetence.

@@cygil1 Oh yes, sinclair, osbourne and amstrad. 3 of the most important 7 dwarfs. Huge players until this very day.

we also had model 30 in primary school in 1996 (post-soviet state). Good times with LogoWriter. I was 7 years old

@@ironhawk2562 I still own my Model 25 which is related to the Model 30 (it's the all-in-one version of the 30) and it still works. I sometimes use it but often more than anything it's a display piece. But it is ready to be used whenever and has its own little retro desk, with functioning dot matrix printer and a copy of Print Shop Deluxe. Sometimes I'll use it to make retro birthday cards and people love it.

We used these at a large UK bank. Basically they were built like tanks. Saw all sorts of horrors like spilt drinks, smoky environments, switched on for years at a time and they rarely went wrong. What a time!

yeah even back then IBM was loosing consumer confidence and they didn't do enough to solve it cause they were IBM they were above the law

It failed cuz it was late. They were too slow. I wonder if Microsoft went slow on purpose. Sabotage.

Yep, a 386 can run Win 3.1, as long as you upgraded the machine to have at least 2 MB of RAM.

Congratulations for being one of the computer fans who kept his very first computer. 👏👏👏

Our first here was a toss-up between a C64 and an IBM clone.

wish i still had my PS/2 someone stole it jerks. I had it in my garage someone broke in and stole pretty much everything of value. A lot of stuff they must have had a very big truck. Anyway the computer that replaced it back then was a Pentium 100.

@@Sevier7777 My first PC's my family had were C64 as a game machine for me, a Tandy IBM clone my family used for work, word processing, etc.

Him and that crackpot curry are still trying to get trump back in the white house. Losers

@@donegal79 who's curry?

Adam Curry, its called No Agenda podcast (its fantastic, deconstruct media) and they aren't trying to get trump back, that other person is incorrect.

@@BigggerNumber ITM

@@donegal79lots of people will vote to get Trump back in the White House in 2024

Yeah, that's exactly why so many miss it. They rarely had pure marketing BS, and favored the engineering and commentary sides.

Nah, Windows 2.03 seems better, but we shall have to see although Windows has a GUI , consider that

OS/2 version 1.3 with the Presentation is superior to Windows 2.03

would have should have could have well it's to late now shame they won't bring os3 out they can't get back into the market now as it's to late as windows 10 is practically free to low priced for them to compete

@@raven4k998 You owe us three 'o's. There were too few in your comment...

@@richardfeynman5560 bite me old man lol I owe you nothing at all nothing you owe me 1 million dollars for the pretense that I owe you anything

@@richardfeynman5560 bite me🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Tom hit the nail on the head... John was correct while George was wrong on this one, MCA never caught on because of the closed bus architecture - had IBM been a little looser on that front, it might have been a viable mainstream bus alternative instead of dying out as quickly as it did.

*And 16 (that's sixteen) colors!* _plus as much memory as he can use_ total bliss! ;)

Hey, 640x480 in 1987 was awesome.

I remember the first time I saw an EGA screen. My impression was that the colors were not nearly as good as my Amiga's, BUT, the clarity and refresh rate were AMAZING!

Yes, Dvorak is a character, but wrong so many times. When talking about multi-tasking with Windows 3.1 around 1991 he said "If I want multi-tasking I use a second computer on the floor by my desk!" lol!

He was pretty much spot on about the PS/2. Great for B2B sales because of serviceability, but it will be a legal sinkhole for clone makers. And that’s about exactly how it panned out. Schools and businesses bought them up, the consumer market did not, and clone makers kept incrementing on the AT platform.

@@DataWaveTaGo I love Dvorak, such a funny guy. I seem to recall he made this comment regarding Windows 3.1 because it was such a bad multitasker back in the day--it's easier just to use a second computer. :-)

@@DataWaveTaGo I'm pretty sure that, if this isn't apocryphal (I can't find any reference to it) he only was making that joke b/c of the lack of compelling Windows applications to multitask. Not to mention that Windows 3.1 (which came out in 92) was still only cooperative multitasking. Dvorak liked the Amiga, which has pre-emptive multitasking since it's initial release in 85.

@@mk553 Just saw you comment now. I concur. Also that Win 3.1 likely didn't have much compelling software for him upon release, from his perspective. He probably was a WordPerfect guy.

Well, in short, the open architecture of the PC; meaning users could upgrade whatever they wanted or needed; allowing for significant upgrades without buying an entirely new computer. This meant that hardware manufacturers could compete, and the competition drove down prices. But driving down prices isn't enough to make the difference, people had to buy the hardware. Over on the microcomputer market, the whole computer market, you could say, a very distinct culture held sway. Game developers developed for the lowest hardware. Comoddore 128 had a 64 built in, and instead of making use of the 128s capabilities, most developers kept developing for the C64 knowing they get both markets. Atari STs, although more powerful versions were around, games were made first with the lowest specs in mind, and perhaps they may add some bells and whistles for the more powerful STs. Commodore Amiga with their Ideas of 2000s and up being business machines for graphics houses and special effects houses for tv shows, and the 500 for the gamer produced an even more segmented user base; and the same developing games culture prevailed; develop for the 500 first and foremost, and basically forget about the others. The result was of course, and there was no real incentive for the gamers on those machines to upgrade that machine. Which meant that neither Commodore/Atari had intensive to push the hardware to its limits and since their hardware was proprietary there were no other hardware manufacturers who would. Now there were several game developers who started in that microcomputer world who were fed up with this, they were the most innovative and creative development houses on the block and they jumped ship to the PC. These were legendary creators like Origan from Ultima and Wing Commander fame, Westwood studios who would create the RTS genre with Dune 2 and then Command & Conguer; Looking Glass from Ultima Underworld and System Shock, LucasArts from the Secret of Monkey Island and the Star Wars space fighter simulators, Sierra On-Line, Bullfrog, Maxis, etc. etc., not to mention a little known software company called Id Software. They didn't go in to create a game for the lowest spec computers, no, no, even though that may cost them some sales, they trusted their creative instincts and deliberately started making games to push all consumer grade hardware even high end stuff to their ultimate limits; and they were right, for the games on the PC, they willing to pay for the machines needed to play these games. Compare the games for the Amiga during the late eighties to 1993, and compare the same time for DOS. In 88 / 89 Amiga and ST utterly kicks DOS's ass, brilliant sprites, fantastic scrolling, great music and sound; and by 1993 that's what most games still are. They've barely changed, gotten only slightly better graphics, and would still be playing similar type of games. Now let's look over at DOS; in early 1990 the first Commander Keen trilogy and Duke Nukem sidescroller is the best the PC had to offer when it came to platformers, and they were shit compared all the systems out there, later that year would see the 256 color release of Prince of Persia that would introduce players to smooth rotoscoped animated characters superior to its release on any other system, The Secret of Monkey Island and King's Quest five would bring 256 color brilliant graphics as a must, while revolutionizing the adventure genre into point and click, Wing Commander would revolutionize Space Fighter simulations with superior graphics and superior story telling, Red Baron would revolutionize flight simulators, only to be revolutionized again less than a year later by Falcon 3.0, where the developer happily said, "Oh, you have a very powerful expensive 80386, did you install a mathematical co-processor for even more money? Ooh... sorry, our game will not run for you, if you're gonna upgrade, you might wanna go with 80486 who have those things built in right away, oh and still expect your 80486 to smoke." In the same year, Commander Keen Dreams would introduce some of the smoothest scrolling any computer has ever seen, not to mention a protagonist sprite more detailed, bigger, and with more animation frames than the platformers on any rival systems. By 1992, Ultima Underworld would be the first real time First Person game that was not limited to wire-frames, it was not a 2D game mimicking 3D, it had multiple levels, lighting, textured ceilings and floors, was not limited to straights corners, in fact it wasn't even limited to straight walls it had actual round walls; and that's just the graphics revolution it brought, gameplay, holy crap, of course, it had to keep the screen with the action to only about half the size or it would have literally fried pcs at the time; two months later fullscreen FPS action would arrive in Wolfenstein 3D; the same year Ultima 7 The Black Gate would bring 80386s down to its needs and revolutionize top-down RPGs, and units verbally acknowledging your orders in the first RTS Dune 2, would bring an explosion to Sound Blaster 2 sound card sales and boost a massive revolution in the next years of ever improving and selling sound cards, and then, then came 1993. That is the year, doom would come to the Micro computer market, it's the year C64 finally would be replaced, and the Atari ST and Amiga end any pretensions they still stood a chance, this came of course, appropriately and ironically enough, at hands of DOOM. The three key differences: open architecture and competition in hardware that came with it, developers willing to push that hardware to the limit, and gamers willing to buy the hardware to play them. You know, I wish retro channels would do a video or a series on the rise of the PC as a gaming machine; until now anything I've ever seen is always a bit on the hardware, or a bit a specific iconic MS-DOS software house of the 80s, or it always starts at the 90s; never has there been a neat retrospective of the earliest PC games and compared them with the microcomputers, and then go in depth into these three revolutionary years, and the reasons why both the company culture and the use culture meant the death of those machines once inevitably the open architecture and the culture that came with it would make these revolutionary years inevitable.

@@3dmaster205 is this comment going to be published in hard copy? I would like to read it but my micro doesn't have enough storage to store it all and my dot matrix printer only has half an ink ribbon left.

@@3dmaster205 Duke Nukem actually came out in 1991 and the first Commander Keen appeared in December 1990. King's Quest V using full VGA was already out in November 1990. The Commander Keen series and Duke Nukem continued using EGA in late 1990/into 1991 because the trick known as Adaptive Tile Refresh could only be done in EGA to allow for similar side-scrolling action like you can get on the NES. Surprising there are games using VGA prior to 1990, the earliest being Rockford the Arcade Game displaying 32 colors from December 1987, but most early use of VGA only used the same 16 colors as EGA for PS/2 users that only had MCGA. 688 Attack Sub from 1989 was the first game to display nearly 256 colors. Secret of Monkey island first appeared in EGA, but the VGA version did come out a little later, but Monkey Island 2 was VGA right from the very beginning.

​@@3dmaster205I cannot believe you attempted to tell the history of PCs through gaming. The fact it wasn't a gaming machine is the only reason the PC survived long enough to become what it is.

he's the son of the designer who made the keyboard layout

He's stated that he isn't related to either the keyboard layout creator (August Dvorak) or the famous Czech composer (Antonín Dvořák).

Imagine if it had become a KZfaq meme. As it was, in 1987, only a couple of million computer enthusiasts watching public-access cable or PBS or whatever channel it was on saw it at the time.

@@anonUK PBS. I used to watch the show. I loved it. But, you're right, in this day and age, that clip would have been all over.

I've watched most all of these, whether broadcast at the time or on YT. Eng here as well.

He's still to this day trying to put that back together.

Jason Brooks ...Dvorak?

She reminds me of a female Andre the Giant.

12:00 Right on.

13:06 Right on, again.

Not really, the architecture was around for some 7-8 years. The last Micro Channel machines were released in 1995.

Arch Stanton Bit rude, unnecessary comment, I bet you’re great fun at parties.

It could be said that one of IBM's 'greatest mistakes' is that they rushed the original PC, using off the shelf parts. At one point, IBM OWNED the business computer space, simply because their name legitimized it. Had their hardware been more proprietary, it is possible that they could have kept that ownership - at least until an inevitable anti-trust breakup. But no, their GREATEST mistake was in letting Microsoft OWN them, instead of the other way around. They should have bought MS or Digital Research right out instead of trying to license the software. Software was ever IBM's blind spot. They didn't understand the importance of software - particularly 3rd party software. They couldn't possibly see the clones coming, nor how Microsoft would inevitably control the direction of the market. By the time the clones were running Windows, it was too late to purchase Microsoft. IBM's only answer was to try and reclaim their proprietary status with PS/2 and OS/2, and both had only moderate success.

@@Chordonblue Not just software, but specifically the OS. I doubt Gary Killdall (cohost in this show) would have sold DRI. And Bill Gates definitely wouldn't have sold MS. They should have thrown enough money at MS to either lock them into a contract to not allow them to relicense the OS or bought the OS outright and developed it inhouse. OS/2's biggest impediment was that IBM partnered with MS to develop it, and MS has a vested interest in OS/2 not succeeding, since it would have superceded Windows. OS/2 2.0 was a full 32-bit OS, with an OO desktop. A few years prior to Win 95, which still ran on top of 16-bit MS-DOS and didn't have an OO desktop.

Not if you were Gates, Ballmer or Jobs. Rude guys they were.

What's wrong with the past? Not enough wokeness?

@@karlimo4034 the non wokeness was the best part about the past. I’m just saying, I love where technology is at now

Especially if you bought one lol

Ummm... VGA display chips and monitors? 3.5" HD FDDs?

Lucky you. I was in damned middle school and still seeing Apple IIe systems.

I was the asst to the head of the computer dept at my public HS. We had 6000 students at our peak (2nd largest east of the Mississippi). Our school had an IBM mainframe and went PS/2 during 88/89 school year. I helped set up our first PS/2 LAN (I remember having fun chatting with my friends I had recruited--to "test" the LAN--so novel at the time). I taught staff how to use them and went around to systems with a tape drive to back them up. And I desktop published the literary magazine on a PS/2 model 30 with PageMaker in Windows 2.

@@jesuszamora6949 The Apple IIe is a cooler machine and had better a edu software selection.