The Conflicted Combat of Darksiders 2

Рет қаралды 200,767

7 жыл бұрын

A critique of Darksiders 2's occasionally fun, but often unpolished combat, analysing its flaws, the good parts, and the missed potential.
Support Turbo Button on Patreon: / turbobutton
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Turns out no one's really analysed this game's combat as has been done for DMC or Bayonetta, so all of this video was based off things I noted when replaying it. As such, I ended up with a lot of excess notes that had little place in the script.
Extra (mostly positive) Notes:
I like the standing launch move as there's some tactics to using it over the somersault launch - while it doesn't send you up in the air as well it doesn't launch enemies straight up, instead sending them in an arc over your head.
On top of this the gun cancels an enemy's horizontal movement in the air-so you can launch from the ground then cancel their arc right above you for better positioning.
The gun of course slows an enemy's descent but doesn't stall indefinitely like DMC, instead just slowing them down.
The Stalker enemies are particularly badly telegraphed, with powerful moves having little windup (and unclear what their range is) and a series of swiped with little telegraphing that would work fine in Bayonetta but are just tedious in a game with no dodge offset.
At some point you get a damage bonus for landing a super tight dodge which is good, any risk/reward incentives in these kind of action games are nice.
Why is the final boss SO shit?
The wrath system is easily exploited but I'm not sure how I feel about the health system. A potion takes a while to heal you which is good in a sense as it means you can't just spam them while you're taking hits and need to be avoiding damage. However it also contributes to the premise of backpedalling away from danger and chugging potions or using the odd health-giving move so you can tank hits later.
Reaper Form is dumb. Unlike giving an attack and speed boost but with the same moveset like Devil May Cry, or even making all your moves wicked weaves like Bayonetta, you just become this big lumbering Reaper with assloads of defense, encouraging you to just mash the attack button as you tank damage.
Execution moves improved somewhat from 1, whose humanoid enemies can be killed with it in 1 hit, whereas in 2 this only applies to tiny enemies. Also unless you get some bad execution chances on a certain weapon you won't get too many of them, unlike Darksiders 1 which gave them in spades.
Apparently you can turn the numbers off but that only partially fixes the problem. The game is very reliant on gear and stats, the numbers are there to give you immediate feedback on that. Turning them off clears the screen, but then you don't get that feedback, would have been way better to adjust the size.
Where are my rival fights guys come on
Logo designed by / ozzar0th and coloured/animated by / agrimvale
Darksiders 3 reveal trailer: • Darksiders 3 Official ...
Darksiders 3 gameplay trailer: • Darksiders 3 Gameplay ...
Thanks to TheGamingBritShow for lending me those God of War clips: / thegamingbritshow
Thanks to Game Maker's Toolkit for helping me reframe some of the more directionless elements of my script. If only Darksiders 2 had the same kind of advice: / mcbacon1337
Games shown:
Darksiders 2
Darksiders
God of War
Bayonetta
Devil May Cry 3
Devil May Cry
Devil May Cry 4
Music:
I Know What You Want (Instrumental) - Busta Rhymes ft Mariah Carey
Ghostwriter - Rjd2
Feel Good Inc. (Instrumental) - Gorillaz
Play Dis Only At Night - Pete Rock
The Corruption - Darksiders II

Пікірлер: 762

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

So this video required a decent bit of research on my part considering Darksiders 2 hasn't exactly been talked about like this in the way DMC or Bayonetta have. As such, there's a lot of excess notes I took on the fighting system (some quite positive) that didn't fit into the overall video so if you want to read those, they're in the description.

@user-bd3tn8zt5m 7 жыл бұрын

First of all amazing video :D, this combat had another very simple problem in the campaign in its normal difficult mode (which is the one most players pick in their first playthough and so the one is supposed to be designed for the players to enjoy it for their first time), get CHAOS FANGS and pure CRITICAL build automatic EZ mode enabled. Just my own experience, when you mix rpg elements the numbers can get out of control, furthermore you cant always relay in your skills unleash you got enough level (Deposed King boos fight) and unlike other games you mentiones in darksiders 2 you just cant always win if you havent farmed and if you farm too hard with a crits build then it gets too ez =(. And i miss grabbing weak enemies and excute them more often XD.

@ANDELE3025 7 жыл бұрын

1. Not using the targeting system is 100% the way to go (or at least 95% of the way to go, using the tap for quick refocus can be nice vs multiple big mooks), all skills have proper cleave across their animation and hitboxes of mook npcs span out of the model instead of being inside it (nothing against bayo, that works perfectly for score/medal focus) because the camera is trash from age old console design. 2. Just for the video i went through the entire bloody Kingdom of Skelly, attack that you cannot stagger on any of the mooks is the armored skellys glowing arm overhead attack. As for the skating i have no excuse except they carried it over from DS1 (like the shitty camera). 3. Partial point only because you got 2 dodge attack upgrades (the timed counter dodge and the roll spin upgrade) which can be rolled into most combo attacks (or at least not drop the hit count), tho gameplay changing upgrades should by acquired via actual gameplay progression. The real issue is that "pause time" between command sensitive combos are a inherently flawed concept in spectacle fighters (also why mentioned Bayos sword and Punch Kick Punch/Punch Punch Kick LEGS LEGS/the simple weave combos are 90 times better than everything else). 4. 99% of big guys also have either secondary weapon (death grip most of the time) weakness. 5. Elemental effects depend on how much damage they do (fire dot interrupts mooks, frost further slows enemy strong attacks in addition to a small hit slow, lightning stuns big mooks while piercing on hammer murderskullfucks anything with armor with their alt names being upgraded/stronger secondary effect versions of the elements).

@deathpyre42 7 жыл бұрын

Great video. But, maybe the thing about skeleton telegraphing was just due to rushed visual assets? For example, all possessed weapons reuse assets from legendary weapons.

@marcotibayanmalone7158 7 жыл бұрын

Turbo Button I agree with many of your points, but there are a few flaws in your argument. If you stack your elemental damage type you could shock, burn, or freeze your target unless they're massive in size. Yes the camera focus is kinda let down when you get into large fights but I believe it was primarily meant for boss fights or fights where you focus on targeting a really large enemy (Example the Deposed King). As for the combo chaining, yes it can be a bit of a hassle but it is really feasible. You have to switch between using your scythes and your secondary weapon to get the most out of it. The parts of the combo you want to rotate between weapons is after you launch a spin move with your scythes, the heavy move, or towards the end of the combo with the weapon you have equipped. Health recovery is sorta slow so when you're in the thick of it disengage and backpedal/evade. To help with the issue stack your weapon with life steal which steals enemy health on hit with no delay for regaining hp. The increased telegraphing may help you notice enemy movements and improve your dogding but probably not by much as there's a mob of enemies. The primary means of inflicting damage is string combos with your weapon, do aoe moves to knockback/clear enemies, disengage to reacquire targets, repeat.

@marcotibayanmalone7158 7 жыл бұрын

Turbo Button Also, I can't seem to find your DS3 video that you spoke of in the video.

@thedeadlystevos 7 жыл бұрын

ill have you know there are at least 15 of us that are fans of darksiders

@MariusUrucu 7 жыл бұрын

Darksiders 2 may be the jack of all trades when it comes to its design, but it's also more than its sum of its parts. I love the world and story in Darksiders, I like the combat, flawed as it is (and the fact that you can play it like DMC, or more like an RPG for those who aren't good at high execution) and I love the dungeon design and Prince of Persia platforming. One thing to remember is that Darksiders isn't exactly an action game franchise, but a Zelda inspired franchise with a competent combat system.

@miceatah9359 7 жыл бұрын

thats the point ppl keep forgetting instead they compare every game thats not cod difficulty to shitty darksouls lol

@FatalFist 7 жыл бұрын

Being a Jack of All Trades (influenced by Zelda, God of War, etc) definitely worked in their favor here and I am all the more looking forward to seeing where Darksiders 3 takes us and what elements we may see return, added, or changed.

@Clavitz1 6 жыл бұрын

I'm hoping DS3 is more combat related as the platforming and puzzles were interesting in DS2, there were too many of them and several areas made looked as if they should have had combat in them. I'm bummed there will be no gear as the main issue with DS2 in that regard was how life steal scaled, crit damage's value and how easy it was to get more critical strike. Life steal is fine in games but it needs to be properly balanced. I think a cap on health returned would have been a step but that doesn't solve the damage bloat which dwarfed too many enemies.

@antonioenrico 6 жыл бұрын

i love the darksiders series. so glad part 3 is coming,

@logiclunacy606 5 жыл бұрын

Clavitz Rain I always found the puzzle element a huge part of the fun of Darlsiders, I personally wouldn't want to decrease the amount of puzzles. The Earth segments in 2 were the more boring parts of the game and had no puzzles which kinda shows this franchise wouldn't exactly be amazing without all of it's core elements.

@Kenshito 7 жыл бұрын

I absolutely adore Darksiders 2 and I also love how you pinpointed exactly the pain points with the combat, something I would just describe with "it feels off", now I understand what wasn't working out and it feels great having that information, thanks for this great analysis

@stevevince9715 7 жыл бұрын

While I enjoy the games, I'm not going to stick my head in the ground, and IGNORE all of it's problems. Great info and analysis. Will be checking out your other work. ;)

@FatalFist 7 жыл бұрын

Most sensible people acknowledge that the game in question isn't perfect. But you gotta be careful as to not focus on the bad and rule a game out entirely because of it. Transformers War for Cybertron was a guilty pleasure of mine despite how clunky and what not it was. Darksiders had similar cons but I think once you've grown accustomed to them, well... if DSP can beat it then it can't truly be that hard of a series of games. :P

@PKDeviluke25 7 жыл бұрын

You can disable the combat damage numbers.

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

wwhhhhhaaaaaatt

@LN.2233 7 жыл бұрын

PKDeviluke25 I knew that too

@theanonymous118 7 жыл бұрын

also, Harvest (Harbringer side ability) will stagger ANY none-boss enemies, with some exceptions like the giant of bones and one or two exceptionnal enemies, but all minion and about 80 to 85% of heavy enemies will not be spared

@johnanth 7 жыл бұрын

When is the damage control coming Jonny boy? How are you going to get out of this one?

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

If they're right they're right. As I said this aint really talked about on that DMC/Bayo level so this was all shit I'd noted down so there are one or two things I've missed. Still, considering some optional skill tree move is the only consistent stagger and I didn't notice the numbers thing having played through the game 2-and-a-bit times now I'll stand by my stance that it was poorly communicated at the least.

@OldyAlbert 7 жыл бұрын

Fist one actually was also jack of all trades - it's zelda it's god of war it's a little DMC it's even a over-the-shoulder shooter. 2nd one just a jack of even more trades, but i think it's kinda the point of the series. They are less focused, yes, but also pretty varied.

@CaptJackAubreyOfTheRoyalNavy 7 жыл бұрын

In that way, Darksiders 1 may have been the last great B-game.

@OldyAlbert 7 жыл бұрын

Nah, not the last. Last one good B-game i played was The Surge

@kevboard 7 жыл бұрын

Ole Gerko the second one was too much tho ya. the loot and rpg elemts were too much... the first one was a Zelda clone with DMC esque fighting, all the other elements were really just small sections that don't really reflect the overall gameplay.

@jarg8 7 жыл бұрын

Ole Gerko Really good point. I think it all stems from the fact that Joe Mad, an incredible comic book artist, contributed largely to these games as he himself, has been a gamer all his life (He was notorious for missing deadlines on comic projects because he played so much video games but, lucky for him, he's an incredible artist). That's why you see these games fusing elements of Panzer Dragoon, God of War, Zelda, Prince of Persia, and loot based games. Joe's passion for videogames made these games heavily inspired experiences but, by taking from the best, the game becomes an entirely unique experience. I found the creativity, variety, and pacing of these games to be pretty excellent as a result. Though I guess it all comes down to preference and perspective.

@swamdono 6 жыл бұрын

Which is weird, I think. Because Dark Chronicle was revered, yet it has a bunch of different mechanics, too. A good few of them are even unrelated to the story.

@TopSunbro 7 жыл бұрын

Darksiders 2 is one of my favorite games ever, and everything you've said it's true, yet I always go back to it once a year, already played it like 5 times

@vishishify 6 жыл бұрын

yep, same, ive had 3 different computers since that game came out, and it has found its way onto all of them

@Dr.GundeathPunchface-enstein 6 жыл бұрын

Y'know what's funny? If anything, this video has made me love Darksiders 2 even more. I firmly believe that it's okay to enjoy something with flaws, and it's okay to admit those flaws. Is Darksiders 2 a perfect game? Absolutely not, furthest thing from it. But it's a game that I will adore until the day I die.

@Mojavekight17 7 ай бұрын

Same

@dstarr3 7 жыл бұрын

Can we also talk about how the middle of the game is an unending slog? You have to go on three fetch quests for this dude, and each of those three fetch quests requires a further three fetch quests, and one of those sub-fetch-quests requires YET ANOTHER three fetch quests. Holy padding, Batman. Just awful.

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

And then the whole point of that section was to just meet a guy you met at the start of the game.

@dstarr3 7 жыл бұрын

Oh my god, I forgot about that detail. God, this game could have been four hours shorter and been so much better for it.

@Whitelight 7 жыл бұрын

The jailer dickhead is the worst dungeon in the game. I

@xin0 7 жыл бұрын

you can say that again Batman. seriously, that was one of the thing i hated about this game! you are playing a Death, who supposed to be dead badass, but rather you are a dog running errands!

@Jabodie 7 жыл бұрын

Dave Starr Honestly I never really put much thought into the story. Everything was basically just there to send you to the next dungeon. So I'm not even sure which quests refer to which here and I just beat the game.

@overlord6815 7 жыл бұрын

All of your points are valid, but I must admit I never saw them as issues. Especially the part about having to cut your combos short and run away. Once I leveled up and got stronger, I rarely got hit in the middle of a combo. Especially whem 3 different combos end with Death doing a heavy attack. Just use a Mace or Spear that does long range damage to every enemy around you. As for the focus part, I never focus on one enemy unless it's one or two.

@pecadorr93 7 жыл бұрын

Yeah, you just are too encouraged to spam dodge-heavy attack combo or dodge-schythe throw, since its the most effective way. But yeah the combat is not all that bad.

@Persegan 7 жыл бұрын

As as game design student and someone who enjoyed Darksiders 2 quite a bit while not really having played that many action games, your video was super interesting, thank you very much for your work!

@scrustle 7 жыл бұрын

I get where you're coming from with some of these criticisms, but I never found them much of a problem myself. Not locking on during fights with multiple enemies isn't so bad. You have lots of crowd control options, including special moves that can push away enemies around you so you can get them off your back to focus on just one. It does kind of suck that it limits your moveset without targeting, but I guess that's a trade-off of sorts. Having dodge offset in the game would be an interesting inclusion, but I don't think it's really necessary for the game. It's not so reliant on those combo-enders. Although again, your special skills can be used to pull out moves like that without having to go through a whole combo chain. Also when you talk about the elemental effects, they do actually do something. The game is pretty bad at explaining them, in that it doesn't explain them at all, but there are actually two different versions of each elemental damage, and each do something different. I haven't experimented with all of them, but I have noticed the difference between frost and ice. Frost just slows, while ice completely freezes enemies in place for a few seconds. I always try to build a decent ice build in the game. Also freezing enemies gets around the problem of not having a long enough opening to get combo-enders off, even if that's kind of a clumsy fix. I agree that the UI can get pretty chaotic though. I actually like that. Usually when things are going super crazy, it's because you're putting out so much damage that you basically don't need to worry about incoming attacks anyway. Personally I always turn off the damage numbers too. They're not necessary and just get in the way. Also taking a look at your notes, and somewhat related to the backpedalling criticism, there is also a better way to build for health regen. If you build towards a health on crit + crit chance build, you get quite a lot of health back from hitting enemies. Encourages you to be aggressive, and less reliant on potions. My builds always combine that with the ice attacks, and it makes for a really good build. Again, not really an elegant solution, but the problem can be worked around.

@FatalFist 7 жыл бұрын

While jarring at first, once you get the fundamentals down you kind of stop caring once you get some play time established too.

@StarboyXL9 4 жыл бұрын

I used that strategy you used for health, except I used for Reaper Energy on Crit. I was popping Reaper Form left and right in every boss battle, and mini-boss battle...hell I could even afford to use it against pleb mobs sometimes!

@gamerprince-tl5hg 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah none of this really bothered me too much either. its still a top-tier game and its good they copied from the best

@Sioolol 6 жыл бұрын

Game has it's flaws, but it's still one of the best games i ever played. Especialy second one. Damn, this game feels like no other. For me it is because of the visual style. I still cant forget when i saw Eternal Throne for the first time with this giant undead wyrms... E P I C. And this tombs in the underworld, they are so well designed and damn butifuly grotesque.

@StarboyXL9 4 жыл бұрын

The entire first 20 minutes of gameplay in the Dead Kingdom is epic atmosphere incarnate imo.

@RokushoTheRavager 7 жыл бұрын

Holy crap dude this is an excellent video and I saw you pulling off some really sick combos. It's been a long time since I last played the game but I did get to the last world and I swear I don't remember to doing any insane combos like I saw you perform. That honestly kinda makes me want to jump back into it.

@mdk064hernandez9 2 жыл бұрын

This has been my favorite game since it came out and this video addressed almost every notable bit where gameplay can get in your way. Nice work!

@crocfire6782 7 жыл бұрын

I'm one of the people that love this series and I'm happy to see someone take a critical look at it. I actually like the final boss however I wish they had make you fight a shadow version of yourself(Death) like they did with War in the first. Loved watching this video and keep up the great work!! Good luck with ur exams.

@ijustworkhere1008 5 жыл бұрын

For me, the game which nailed this kind of combat was Asura's wrath. You had manual targetting which didn't zoom in or keep you from being able to focus on other enemies, a very satisfying heavy attack with a well-balanced cooldown, and boss fights that rewarded skillful timing rather than just charging at an enemy. Also, some people say they find the combat too simplistic, but I think that worked in its favour

@touchingisjustthefirststep 3 жыл бұрын

You mean the game that has barely any combat and is just QTES and cutscenes? LUL

@cruisemissile77 7 жыл бұрын

What I learned from playing this game is never dodge straight forward or back. Always try to dodge to the side or diagonally forward to get behind enemies.

@GameBrainOfficial 7 жыл бұрын

Absolutely phenomenal video! Hoping I can reach similar levels of quality in the future. Really admire the flow and fluency of the vid, looking forward to more in the future!

@PetarR560 7 жыл бұрын

Instantly liked when I heard that Busta beat kick in, I was never expecting to hear that song in a gaming video. And besides that, awesome video and topic of discussion, you got yourself a new subscriber.

@lugbzurg8987 5 жыл бұрын

So, THIS is it. This really helped out. I've been trying to work out designing a similar game that involves DMC-like combat, shooting, platforming, and dungeons/puzzles, and there were a few things... "off" here in Darksiders II. I mostly chalked it up to the game feeling bloated with too much inconsequential gear and needlessly large and empty spaces, along with features missing from the first game, such as dashing while climbing, those "weapon mods", and that aerial spin attack War would do where he pretty much becomes a living buzzsaw. I love that move!

@brightsuperstition 7 жыл бұрын

5:25. That's one thing I hate about God of War. If you want to get out some of your most powerful hits, you have to stand a couple of steps away from the enemy and start your combo from 10 feet away.

@ThePreciseClimber 7 жыл бұрын

God of War has one of the least fun combat systems I have ever played (at least from my experience). I had more fun with combat systems that are technically objectively worse (like in PoP The Sands of Time or even Soul Reaver).

@brightsuperstition 7 жыл бұрын

Another problem with God of War is that because all enemies (especially the bigger ones) have so much goddamn health, each of your hits from your standard dual blades feel so goddamn weak. The bigger enemies barely ever flinch. The only attacks in God of War that feel consistently powerful are the throws and grabs you can do. Otherwise, enemies take way too many hits to die.

@MrKhaosKid 7 жыл бұрын

At first I almost got defensive like "you better not talk crap about my game!" but As you started talking about the combat system I remembered how frustrating the camera was in those situations and then was in the video. The game is great visually. The art style of Joe mad, and the motion of the attacks and what not. But the gameplay overall is hard to deal with in some places. I definitely agree with you on many of your points here. I never got into God of War just because it looked too gritty and felt like it was about the gore more so than the cool characters. Very stoked to see what they do in Darksiders 3 and beyond.

@ClarenceDass 7 жыл бұрын

I get you bro. Darksiders on paper has everything I want in games, but that's just it; it has everything in one game and it gets bogged down and, not really overwhelming, but no one part has me hooked. It's a game I want to like but just can't get into.

@MonstersArcade 3 жыл бұрын

Darksiders 1 was not a God of War clone. It was a Zalda clone.

@LN.2233 2 жыл бұрын

with god of war combat hence it was called a god of war clone.

@FrankieTroll511 7 жыл бұрын

I really love Darksiders series, despite its flows. I think in Darksiders 2 they focused more on combat, and that's a little bit sad. I mean, DS2 has a far better combat system than DS1, but i miss all those different gadgets War could use both in combat and while solving puzzles. All those gadgets packed the game with big variety, while il DS2 it comes to "does this hammer inflict more damage than then my spear? Yes? Swap!". DS1 was more focused on "get a bunch of weapons and use them as you like the most." I hope DS3 will get the best from both prequels, meaning great combat, great gadgets and great levels :D

@Crowliflower88 6 жыл бұрын

Aw dude, I freakin love all the music you use in your videos.

@MrSage0011 7 жыл бұрын

your videos are really good keep up the good work

@Handbuilt1 5 жыл бұрын

I loved everything about booth games, can not fault them, I think that the guys involved in making the games did a splendid job. I hope that N3 is just as good

@mr.x6313 5 жыл бұрын

I am inclined to agree with your points, though I ultimately enjoy the combat. I think the point of Death is that you have to play smart: you can’t tank enemy damage. You have to sting and skirt away to plan your next move. It makes you think tactically about each combat scenario.

@Tyler-nr6kl 6 жыл бұрын

Great video! been a huge fan of this game for a while and was suprised people were talking about it. I agreed with your points alot and it was very well put together

@Trayanification 7 жыл бұрын

I finished replaying Darksiders 2 yesterday and although I love the game, I totally agree with you. Another point - the overpowered Health Steal stat that appears after lvl20 or so, about the time you reach the zombies on Earth and their shitloads of unavoidable damage. I think they realized they messed up at that point and added it ingame, since around that time enemy number really ramps up, with a lot of super armor enemies (the ones in the last chapter especially) Edit: And stupid stalkers, that can chain their swipes at random, seemingly indefinitely, while you got only 3 dodges in a row...

@StarboyXL9 4 жыл бұрын

You're supposed to pick up a gun and blast them all dude. Plus you CAN actually do that entire quest line on any difficulty level without using a gun. It's hell (ironically, considering your on Earth) but it just takes skill and a solid build based on either damage or tanking (defensive stats + health steal)

@bobbaseball5182 2 жыл бұрын

there are no stalkers on earth....

@annietmood 7 жыл бұрын

Playing on KB+M for the entirety of the Darksiders series has proved beneficial for me when it comes to dealing with anything camera related (aside from the segments where the camera is locked and during horse riding); locking on to any enemy became completely obsolete and I get to aim my attack more freely with the speedy camera despite the WASD aiming.

@fredxu99 6 жыл бұрын

Great points. I felt the same way about this game when playing with a controller, and this is actually one of the few hack n' slash games that I recommend everyone play with a mouse and keyboard if on PC. It's much easier to sweep the camera mid-combo using a mouse in order to keep track of enemies around you.

@TyroneD 5 жыл бұрын

Dude, you are the man!! Exactly everything I am thinking about the combat system, you said. Thank you for this. Let's hope Darksiders 3 is way upgraded. I still want to know what the TWO extra abilities are for. We've got: Dust - Despair - Blackroot thingy.

@ScorpyX 7 жыл бұрын

Good video - thank you for analyze of combat system

@civilwarfare101 7 жыл бұрын

I remember really loving this game when I first played it but my memory of it is really starting to fade. I'll probably try to replay both games at some point before the third one.

@Etherwinter 7 жыл бұрын

Will you do a video on the combat of FFXV? I feel like it needs one breaking it down, I suppose.

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

Ooh maybe. Would be nice to take on something a bit different. Considering wrapping all these action game vids up in one mega-video eventually.

@KA1N3R 7 жыл бұрын

I think Witcher 3 vs FInal Fantasy XV would be a nice comparison.

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

I'd like to but considering my very fleeting relationship with the genre I'm not sure I'm the most qualified to talk about them.

@DJSlayer0791 7 жыл бұрын

If you're considering FFXV, you should definitely look into Kingdom Hearts 2. The Final Mix version on the highest difficulty is a fantastic action game, and you even have the option to disable gaining experience so you're forced to rely entirely on your own skill to get through.

@mariotaz 6 жыл бұрын

DJSlayer0791 can honestly say that the level of depth that FFXV have is much more than Kingdom Hearts

@choppitzchjopchjop9289 5 жыл бұрын

the target cam was clearly meant for boss battles and 1 on 1 combat, not for regular enemies. You are meant to fight normal enemies without the target cam and it feels much better. This was apparent from the tutorial with the target cam being introduced with the first big 1 on 1 encounter not the first group of regular enemies.

@hanz2652 6 жыл бұрын

I honestly felt that it was fine. As a hack and slash pro you just gotta know the best time to use features like lock on and stuff. You'll also notice other things and small tidbits that don't really affect high level players. I guess it's something that just takes a bit of getting used to honestly. I just wished the combat was more deeper

@mattbell888 7 жыл бұрын

Subbed. I'm a big unconditional fan of the series, but to be a fan you gotta be open to criticism of the thing. The skellies without the armor glows can be staggered on anything, I usually just need a flip kick or something. Starting a combo from far away seems like an odd strategy that I never found efficient; I'd just swipe for 1 or 2 hits and itd end up doing more than just one combo ender launcher. And if you want a launcher you have flip kick. Lockon should be farther away but I kinda like it because there are lots of audio cues and even without MegaBigDickSurroundSound equipment I can still tell where an attack is coming from and when it will hit me. Trading off being able to see everything vs not losing track of this one guy you really just want dead I think is fine. The game supports both backpedaling and taking your time vs never stopping to breathe until everythings dead, which I think is nice. Getting far more wrath from melee than pistol attacks is one example, and that health pots/crow healing arent instant bursts of hp while teleport slash and health on crit are are also good examples. I got used to the wheel pretty quick, but I see how it could be obnoxious for a lot of people. Switching between gun and grapple and using the occasional necro skill was a lot easier with a bit of getting used to. Having the wheel be more cooperative or doing what horizon zero dawn does would be a lot better, though. I think having a big dumb idiot button in Reaper Form is fine because it can get you through parts you're getting stuck on without demanding much other than using it to its best extent for the duration. I liked the shooter bit and the final boss ;_; But yes more rival battles pls

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

Yeah I should have made the point about glowy attacks more clear, they've got super armour except if you use the launch, which is the same property for the skeletons, my point was just they don't indicate it in that world (but also do with variations of old enemies? It's super weird) But really, great, informative comment.

@1993JoshG 7 жыл бұрын

great video, saw a link on Joseph Anderson's Twitter and am glad I clicked it!

@freshboy3968 4 жыл бұрын

Fantastic review! I also have a love-hate relationship with this game/game series. (Dunno about the third entry yet. Hope it delivers some as sweet moments as the second one!) Btw, was that your own gameplay of the game? If so, what platform did you record it on?

@luisoncpp 7 жыл бұрын

8:58 I differ with you in that point, the stats of the weapons and the upgradeable skills really altered my strategy, that's how (I imagine that it can be a lot of outcomes): 1. With the teleported strike I can regain health and if I keep hitting after being teleported then I can get wrath a lot faster because of the upgrade of that skill. 2. I equipped fast weapons that gave me health or wrath for each critical hit. That 2 things in conjunction gave me enough motivation to do risky moves in order to get health back.

@KevinCow 7 жыл бұрын

I think these are mostly reasonable points, but I do want to point out that Darksiders 2's combat fares a lot better when instead of comparing it directly to games designed almost entirely around their combat systems, you compare it to other games where combat is only one of several major pillars. Zelda's the obvious one to mention, but I'd also bring up the likes of Assassin's Creed, The Witcher, and others where elements like exploration, puzzles, platforming, stealth, and dialogue play as big a role in the game as the combat. It's like, as a random example, Captain America: Civil War probably has a crappy story compared to story-driven dramas like The Godfather, but its character-driven story looks a lot better when you compare it to other action-driven Hollywood blockbusters, especially in the superhero genre where the plot isn't usually much more complex than, "Likable hero saves the world from a forgettable villain who's going to somehow destroy everything with a giant laser shooting into the sky." That's not to say we should praise mediocrity just because it's better than garbage, but we should keep in mind the context and what's trying to be accomplished. I don't think Darksiders 2 was trying to have a combat system as deep as Bayonetta or something, just something that's fun and exciting and satisfying and works with the RPG and loot systems to make you feel stronger and stronger until you eventually feel like a massively overpowered badass, and I think they succeeded at that.

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

That's a fair point, but I feel it's worth considering that Darksiders 2 focuses on combat a lot. Dungeons are generally less complex than Zelda, the parkour is mostly filler, and a lot of the challenges come from locking you in a room with a bunch of enemies. Considering how big a role it plays compared to the other aspects, and the obvious inspirations from other franchises (Vigil have admitted to being DMC/Bayo fans and the Gilded Arena is a Bloody Palace-style enemy wave challenge) I feel like the combat should be looked at to this extent.

@marcotibayanmalone7158 7 жыл бұрын

Turbo Button Agreed with further looking into the combat to polish the flaws, but mastering the combat isn't difficult. As for the dungeons not having the same level complexity as Zelda it's because again they were trying to balance combat with puzzles. The puzzles aren't an idiot can do it if you give them a controller but they also don't give you the hoozah after working it for several hours. For most gamers each dungeon would take maybe 20 minutes to get the works of the new mechanic introduced and then the dungeon becomes a breeze.

@PrinceSilvermane 6 жыл бұрын

You know what if weapons weren't just stat sticks but did more? Like you could get a sword that had the same moves, but with a different finisher or extra effect. Or another one that has slower animations but deal more damage. Or maybe one that forces you to commit to a combo but gives super armor. These wouldn't be full replacements for unique weapon sets like DMC, but would introduce some neat customization depending on what you want to play like.

@MCI-ReactGaming 7 жыл бұрын

great video. u brought up a lot of good points that are... hard to out in words lol. the devs should watch this to improve the combat in their 3rd installment. good job

@FatalFist 7 жыл бұрын

Darksiders as a whole is a Jack of All Trades. The entire IP is influenced by mainstream action titles and Darksiders 3 will be no different. Despite the negative connotations there, I still love the IP and once you get over the drawbacks (I've seen cons in gams that make the games unplayable, this doesn't happen with Darksiders 2) you can appreciate what such a beautiful universe they crafted here. So I'm hugely looking forward to Fury in Darksiders 3.

@gamerprince-tl5hg 3 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's kind of the identity of the franchise at this point lmao. Darksiders 1 was DMCxZelda and Darksiders 2 was DMCxBayoxZeldaxDiablo

@TheTanmoy1990 6 жыл бұрын

Late, and redundant comment is heavily redundant. ~~~~ 22 Apocalyptic runs, 7 Nightmare runs, and a single Deathinitive run later, I still have to agree with almost everything you've said about the combat. I've min-maxed everything, literally every sort of skill combination, used every sort of weapon class and tried every DPS type build imaginable, even a 92% Execution Chance Arcane Avenger build with the Abyssal set and 2 Possessed weapons. The combat is all over the place, even though they nailed the ARPG aspect right on the head. The only place where we seem to disagree is with the need for the Execution system, which is an actual stat in the second game. And while it isn't an optimal stat to build around, it's insanely hilarious when after you've pulled off a max range Teleport Slash into Harvester Spin, you immediately open up the entire tile-set to execution prompts :3

@noblealfred5010 7 жыл бұрын

Although the game has a *lot* of problems, darksiders 2 is still fun to play and I think the only western game where the attacks and movement feels more otp(as you mentioned), most western games go for the fleshy crunch and grounded feel. I still think some of the systems work, while the dodge breaks after 3 times might feel like a useless feature it encourages aggressive play and it therefore makes the fights more fun. Yes, the player can opt to use the alternate boring options like shooting; but that's true for many games. As for the lock on, while I agree it's rubbish it's not too hard to play the game without it, and you can always lock on temporarily when you want to use those directional input based moves. I agree with most of what you say, but whatever they put in doesn't completely become redundant, somethings actually managed to work w.. .. .ell.... .somewhat together. This is kind of like making excuses but even though it's such a messy game, I still find it much more fun than the Ninja Theory DmC. I am not entirely sure why. Might be because it has a lot of systems I am already familiar with and therefore am able to use the systems in weird ways. It's an inconsistent game, but it's a fun inconsistent game. And I think the RPG systems help make the game more varied, the elemental effects and such do -do somethings. I think where as an action game it fails, it does well as an arpg; and where as an arpg it fails, it does well as an action game. Anyway, as for DS3 I think the lead designer and combat designer is no longer in the newly formed Gunfire. And based on what I saw of DS3 .. .well.. . .I feel like the certain death quote from DMC4 fits my feeling.

@jman2856 7 жыл бұрын

Pre-alpha gameplay, just to let you know.

@CallForGrandPappy 2 жыл бұрын

Ninja theory dmc is better than the mainline games.

@noblealfred5010 2 жыл бұрын

@@CallForGrandPappy lol

@amit212543 5 жыл бұрын

Great Video!

@raycocker639 6 жыл бұрын

Just got both games on sale. This vid hyped me. Can't wait to play it, looks "hella" good

@VictorKaiser 7 жыл бұрын

Interesting angle. I admit I didn't have as many gripes, but I can see what you're talking about. I absolutely loved the fighting system overall. I will though agree that the camera can be a little too tight in group fights, even when not locked on. And the lunging enemies did take time to get used to.

@PsychoRavager 3 жыл бұрын

Good video!

@rodrigodelgado4454 7 жыл бұрын

This is one of the best reviews I have ever seen. Congratulations

@apeeatape 7 жыл бұрын

Great in-depth analysis, and a funny one to boot ) Did you have a chance to try The Surge yet? The guys from Deck 13 seems to be also a team who cherish their inspirations a lot, but not too much, so they eager to bring some new takes on familiars. I'm really interested in your thought on the matter. Thanks. And keep up a good work )

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

I haven't but I am interested in it due to the whole directional dodging mechanic. I think it's cool, reminds me somewhat of the different dodges in God Hand and how the duck is high risk for high reward. In general I think games could do with more versatile evasive maneuvers. I'll keep my eye on it, but given Lords of the Fallen will probably just grab it when it goes a bit cheaper. Also, thanks!

@apeeatape 7 жыл бұрын

Well, this whole directional thing didn't do me much good so far. The way they implemented it control wise makes it more risk and less reward. It's safer just keep some distance between me and opponent and chip away health during cooldowns. But may be with bigger enemies it makes more sense. Other wise I like the game so far. Even despite it somewhat dynamic difficulty (it's not alway apparent which blows cancel enemies attacks in the heat of the battle for example). It definitely has more focused feel than Darksiders and more thoughtful attention to detail in my opinion. But yeah, considering the amount of games releasing lately it can wait )

@bennybeck 7 жыл бұрын

Jack of all trades , master of none is exactly how I feel about this game. I still think it's cool though.

@adomasnarbutas9008 5 жыл бұрын

I really liked the RPG elements in D2 - the skill tree and gear was particularly awesome and unique. It is really sad this is not the case in D3, as far as I see.

@johntighe1338 6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the video, I'm in the Kingdom of the Dead right now and I'm super-caught up on the encounters with the multiple floaty undead women (I think called wraiths). Realizing I'm actually taking damage from those teleport slashes will help, and it's also great to feel validated about all the problems with the game's system.

@PencilManners 7 жыл бұрын

I'm probably the only one of those ten fans that actually liked the Earth section, but probably because of the games atrocious pacing more than anything else, it was nice to have a quick half an hour rush with simple controls after the several hundred redundant dungeons that were always split into three pieces in some way. Great video, I really hope 3 will try to build off of the previous two games rather than what the pre-alpha footage suggests. I do recall someone mentioning that there were one or two devs in Vigil who really wanted to push the combat further but I'm not sure how true that is, or whether those devs are now part of gunfire games.

@Nicholas_Steel 7 жыл бұрын

The Earth section is pretty alright, I hate the technical limitations that require you to go through it all again if you miss something in a previous section though (invisible barrier blocks your way to a previous section because that area is unloaded until you loop around again). For example: After the first section iirc you end up back where you started in Earth but you can't take the left route and repeat the first section due to an invisible barrier/the game insists you take the newly unlocked route. Once you finish the 2nd and 3rd sections you can finally enter the first section again! If you enter the 3rd section you can't backtrack to the 2nd section due to a big insurmountable drop-off/cliff.

@victoryarn4381 6 жыл бұрын

The only thing I hated about Earth section was constant attacks of the Swarm,they were just fucking annoying until I got that demonic grenade launcher(angelic gun sucks tbh) and when I had to fight without guns that god damn one attack spamming 5 hits kill mother fucker Suffering.Clearly devs made him just to fight him with guns,because in classical combat he's harder than Absalom....

@ciswhitescum6469 6 жыл бұрын

Victor Yarn have u heard of health Steal?

@owenlikesmovies 7 жыл бұрын

Great video! You disparage the B button execution move in this. Yet it was my absolute favorite thing from Ninja Gaiden II. I felt it was earned because you had to have damaged the enemy enough (ie remove a limb) to unlock the execution move and the timing window was narrow enough that you had to anticipate it somewhat. I haven't seen it been done in a game since (I guess MG:R slicing comes the closest?) and would love to see it done again. Thoughts?

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

Oh yeah I love the Ninja Gaiden executions because there's an element of skill and tactics to pulling them off. In all fairness Darksiders 2 improved them a bit, there's (I think?) less enemies that you can just kill automatically with the execute, whereas Darksiders 1 early on often just gave you a bunch of 1hit KO enemies, and because you couldn't alter the execute chances on a weapon you'd manage to land them way too consistently.

@MJonMBoviM 6 жыл бұрын

Would live to see you analyze the dishwasher series. The combat in those games was so intense

@martinmucha4858 7 жыл бұрын

nice work

@SomeAustrianGuy_ Жыл бұрын

From a lore standpoint, Death not beeing able to mow through enemies like War did, actually makes kinda sense. Like they say, Death's often times swift and random, which is perfectly portrayed in the gameplay. Let's be real, War's a goddamn beef cake on two legs. He may not be as quick as Death, but goddamn his brute strengh and power sure as shit makes up for it. Perfect example is the first Boss in DS2, which also is a shadow version of War. Sure, not nearly as powerful as the real deal, but good enough. While Death's quick and relies heavily on dodges, War's just brute forcing his way through, blocking instead of dodging most of the time. All in all, I have a huge soft spot for the Darksiders games, especially the first 2. While I prefer 1, I sure as shit won't argue that DS2 was a jack of all trades, which I actually really enjoyed.

@anuradasenaratne5252 2 жыл бұрын

bro the focus system i agree with you , but no way this is bad as you make it seem, fast combat is really enjoyable. with great characters , soundtracks, maps, plot this is a really good game for me.. best darksiders game of the series too

@NathanMajor 7 жыл бұрын

Never seen this channel before but am finally playing Darksiders 2 (after abandoning it on its initial release for not being like Darksiders 1). I was discussing with my wife my problems with the combat and you articulated it really well. The lack of arial combat focus is really weird in a spectacle fighter, but you get used to it I suppose. I do feel all the special "wraith" moves feel tacked on, as does the game's reliance on gear to deal damage (seems at odds with games like DMC where it's all skill based). I'd be interested to see a comparison between this and Nier: Automata, which is also a weird spectacle fighter meets RPG hybrid, but Automata's combat feels more fluid but a hell of a lot easier (though Automata also had a greater focus on telling a really great story, which is did pretty much flawlessly). Subbed!

@marcotibayanmalone7158 7 жыл бұрын

Overall, your critique was excellent. You targeted the largest flaws of the combat system, but also provided a counterargument to the flaws based on your experience. While there were some flaws in your argument, overall you addressed the topic well. Sidenotes: Your music selection was dope especially with Feel Good Inc by the Gorillaz. New subscriber and also looking forward to your DS3 combat review.

@slvrcobra1337 7 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt like this. I was super enjoying this game for like the first two hours, the general combat and jumping/traversal are fun, but I don't think the beautiful yet empty open world RPG thing was necessary. I think the game would've benefitted from being more linear and focused on its badass balls-to-the-wall combat with small open sections in-between.

@killer11843 7 жыл бұрын

Great video

@henplay7399 7 жыл бұрын

I have no idea who you are but good video you gained a new sub keep it up man

@LuNicz 6 жыл бұрын

love your channel

@7anti 6 жыл бұрын

to be honest that what like about the series the jack of all trades the master of none, but the notes about the combat are spot on, although i did not notice them at first, am a bit biased regarding this series, i like the theme so much, that i can unconsciously forgive a lot of things

@flamesbaldwin108 7 жыл бұрын

Nice analysis. Even better choice in music.

@justcallmeKad 2 жыл бұрын

This explains how I feel about the combat too

@juannee 7 жыл бұрын

The thought of a new Turbo Button video is the thought I have while wetting my sheets.

@saurabhpathakYT 7 жыл бұрын

Been lookin for someone to notice this ...& here i am ..u really nailed the flaws of this game. things could be different if they just changed in deathinitive edition.I totally agree with you ! Just to mention one thing ...i think the e3 extended trailer combat at the end of the video(without glow effect and wave effect) was much much better than what mess we play now!!!!

@negx3933 6 жыл бұрын

Eh idk, I actually played the shit out of DS2 and loved it.

@ArbazKhan-xr9xt 6 жыл бұрын

Aurodeep Kamal same but don't call it ds2 cuz most people will think of dark souls 2

@omg241 7 жыл бұрын

Actually there is specific gear that can change the way you can play, for example there is a full set that increase the mana pool and mana steal, so you can play like a mage, summoning crows that heals you, zombies that explodes, and the dps shield. In my first playthrough i use the left skill tree and was ok, but the right skill tree is better.

@Paur 4 жыл бұрын

How nice that the tracking issue you mentioned carried over into the new installment of the game in which you can die from 2 or 3 hits.

@Chiefahleaf 6 жыл бұрын

Man it's been a long time since I played the series, I gotta give it another go

@darktitan3025 7 жыл бұрын

Didn't the Darksiders Warmastered Edition have an option to zoom the camera out? Or was it an option to tweak the FOV. For some reason I remember beating that game then going into Darksiders 2 and feeling awkward

@faheemsaiyed8094 5 жыл бұрын

I agree with everything you said and yet I still love it more than the first one.

@alkalostrytoart1024 7 жыл бұрын

gotta say it...nice video man. Some points that i'm sure some of us missed while playing the game are pointed out clearly, like the inconsistency of glowing unblockable attack thingy. I love the game, i got attached to the story, the character, the designs, it's all beautiful, and as you said the animation in darksiders 2 is really damn good and satisfying, the sound of breaking bones, swirling scythes, metal slammed, it's all good. I never really find a problem with the combat of darksiders 2,, but my main concern is on darksiders 3. Yes it's an early build video that they show to us, so the combos and the attacks still feels so mediocre, and limited (for a centuries years old battle hardened warrior that uses whip). But again i understand they still developing it, best prayer to the developer to maximize the potential of darksiders 3, because if the 3rd is failing, then the hope of having 4th sequel will be doomed forever. Also excited about the so called magic system that fury will bring to the world of darksiders, hope this system will define the game even more.

@IndianTelephone 7 жыл бұрын

I get that lock on doesnt work when there are hordes of enemies, but I never locked on when there are hordes or just creeps. I only locked on to minibosses, or when I instantly wanted Death to face towards the enemy. The no lock on freedom of movement is amazingly satisfyinG!

@avyntide 6 жыл бұрын

What’s your opinion of invincible finisher moves on weakened enemies (Ninja Gaiden, Nioh)

@yunpeiyang4904 6 жыл бұрын

Totally agree with your opinion on camera. Really should zoom out in combat so you have a good view on the battlefield instead of only the enemy you've locked on. Nier Automata has the same issue, had to tweak the setting a lot.

@Mortlessness 6 жыл бұрын

After completing the game I had a feeling that a counter-attack (a well-timed dodge) is a core mechanic that you just have to use to be effective to at least some degree. It gives invul frames, it deals a lot of aoe damage, and the best part is - it stuns. Yeah, even bosses or "mini-bosses" are stunned with it. If you start using this well-timed dodge, you won't have to run away half of the fight any more.

@cruelcumber5317 7 жыл бұрын

I also felt the game's combat was horrendously balanced. I found charged hammer to just be insanely powerful for a large portion of the game. The first weapon I picked up in the game was a hammer and I didn't replace it until after the second dungeon because that one move made it competitive.

@Hynotama 5 жыл бұрын

I completed the game several times on all difficulties and I didn’t find anything wrong with the combat. It’s fast, frantic and savage. I don’t like games that kick you in the balls to prove a point (ahem! Dork Souls) but you’ll find none of that here. Here you take control of the Reaper himself and the game does an exceptional job portraying this both by allowing you to be the executioner and by letting you get hit without dying which you cause to others, not the other way around.

@mersunarytigre 7 жыл бұрын

Geez! This was some impressive analysis! What's up with all the dislikes though? New to your channel btw. Any chance we'll get to see you analyze the few Castlevania hack 'n slash titles? Would love to see that.

@TurboButton 7 жыл бұрын

Just got a load of traffic last night from (I think) a new Darksiders 3 dev video, so perhaps it's that. Also thank you! Funny you mention Castlevania, because I was actually considering a small video on an NES one, never played the LOS games.

@trogalitious8987 6 жыл бұрын

I couldn’t agree more, I can’t tell you how many times I lost all my health because an enemy attacked off screen.

@radpunk5144 7 жыл бұрын

Great vid as always. Also you sound even more like Charlie Cade, don't know if you could consider that a good or a bad thing ;) And Gorillaz is always a win!

@droberts4791 7 жыл бұрын

The unskippable cut-scenes after failing a boss fight were nothing, I found it far more infuriating that you had to walk back to the boss (sometimes for up to a minute) before you could fight again. For example, the last boss: when you die it sets you back to before you enter the tree of life's arena, so you have to walk all the way up to the tree of life, watch a loading screen, then walk about 20/30 seconds through the small room before the arena and only then can you begin the fight again. I've always said that when you die in a game, it's meant to encourage you to try again and be better. But that fight just exhausted me, especially because I thought the last boss was the 1 boss in the game where technique didn't mean shit. He just keeps throwing power moves at you until you die. In the end I just equipped my highest damage weapon and went head first and beat him 1st time, there was no joy in this victory because I didn't learn/achieve anything, just hit him with the hardest weapon. I thought the best boss fight in the game was the evil Angel.

@jeremiahjava849 8 ай бұрын

You can disable that floating number in setting, don't you know it?

@Myth_or_Mystery76 3 ай бұрын

I hate to say it, because I like the series, but Darksiders is: “Always the imitated, never the innovated.”

@IfYouInsist 6 жыл бұрын

Holy shit Pete Rock. Dynamite taste my man.

@KrunemGrimcleaver 7 жыл бұрын

I noticed around half way through when I used my abilities more often in combat it actually felt really well to play, even with the tight camera, but if you never really use them you're not gonna have a good time

@vicentereveco3275 6 жыл бұрын

These were all really well fleshed out points, but I can't help but feel that you can work your way around most of them. Maybe it is because I never questioned design aspect in what you've mentioned. The camera lock down to me felt like part of the difficulty of the game, you have to sort of know what is going on in your surroundings even though you can't really see it all the time, kind of like what happens when you drive a car. I also noticed how enemies wouldn't glow when using super armor attacks but then, what if that was intended as an "increasing difficulty" element? And the mobility your enemies have never really becomes a problem as long as you know the spacing and have a good timing with dodges. About the combo system I can't argue against. It is true that you don't have a lot of space for flexibility when executing them, which is sad because it forces you to repeat some movements over others. The talent system never really bothered me. To me it always depended on the build you wanted to go for, there's so many things that can vary depending on your gear and talent build. Customizing possessed weapons and the fact that you could actually give them a name was awesome. I'm glad I found this video, I really love this game and have always felt it has never been given the spotlight it deserves.