Coleman almost said we have to deny reality to live in a more reasonable world. Murray said clearly that denying reality has led us to a less reasonable world.

Accepting the IQ reality is only scary if you judge people as groups

Murray is correct: If you’re going to cite group statistics to try to prove systematic racism exists, it’s perfectly valid, and even necessary, to use group statistics to refute the claim, while still arguing that we all should be treated as individuals with respect to the law. This should not be difficult to grasp.

Charles Murray has been demonized ever since his book the Bell Curve came out. It is courageous and good to speak with him about this issue in a forthright manner.

Whooo boy what a knife edge conversation. And both sides have well articulated points and both entail negative consequences for society. Good luck finding this on mainstream media.

Here are some consequences: IQ of 70-84 is considered intellectually deficient. Much higher rate of poverty, criminality, etc in this range and below. 50% of black Americans score 84 or below. 116 and above is gifted. 131+ is highly gifted like scientist level IQ. There are roughly 40k black Americans with IQ 131+, and 4,800,000 white Americans with IQ 131+ 146+ is profoundly intelligent and able to provide novel thought and ideas, create advancements for society, invent things, push humanity forward. There are about 4K black Americans with 146+ IQ, and about 230k white Americans. This is why this stuff matters

My father didn't want me to marry a black man (I didn't but not for that reason) but it wasn't because he thinks black people are less intelligent, it was because black men aren't known for sticking around. The reputation for fatherless black families made him believe that the odds weren't in favor and that marriage is hard enough. I obviously can't speak for everyone else but that's my experience.

Thanks Coleman for having the courage to do this interview despite cancel culture. I hope the blow back isn't too bad.

Yes, reality should be mainstream.

This point was already made below, but I don't think whites' discomfort with interracial marriage is necessarily due to beliefs about the intelligence of Black Americans. I assume many Blacks are also uncomfortable with marrying interracially, and I know personally that this is true for many Asians and Indians. Anxieties over differing cultures and worldviews is the main issue, IMHO.

I wish USA racial politics didn’t spill out to other countries

On the point of marrying, I can't say that it is indicative of an issue, in my opinion. I'm an immigrant from South America, considered black by larger society. I'm not especially experienced (23 years old), but this is not that surprising in any other group of people. I have met all kinds of people in my short life, black Americans, various Caribbean islanders, South Koreans, Japanese, Indian, Iranian, Egyptian, United Emirates, white Americans, white Canadians, Germans, Italians, Spanish etc. Every single conversation I have had with individuals both young and old, racial homogeny seems to be the rule. A lot of these people expressed their desire for their children or themselves to marry someone of their race and ethnicity (the older folks) and the younger people usually have a preference for people that look like them, though ethnicity is less important since younger people are more integrated into larger western society. With older adults in these various groups having their own prejudices of one group or the other. Of course my account is only anecdotal, but my point is even among minorities the same sentiment is reflected and in the older population I would argue its even higher than the statistic exemplified by the political parties. What would be a good number? And is it reasonable to expect it to be even lower among white Americans? Is it really a problem when many immigrant groups and minorities are arguably just as racially prejudiced to others or sometimes even more so than white America? One thing I was surprised about when I first came to America was how appalled the general populace is at instances of white prejudice, it's almost superstitious. While in the same vein I have witnessed many different non-white groups say derogatory things about blacks, Jews, different hispanic cultures, Koreans, Indians, Philippinos etc. And it's often just as heinous and sometimes even more derogatory. The point being everyone does this, but the majority of people regardless of their racial/ethnic background are generally minimal in their prejudice especially the younger people. I do not think there is any reasonable way around this, I agree with Charles, treating people as individuals is the best and only way.

We may not live in a reasonable world, but one thing that is clear Coleman is that you are doing your best to bring reason to it. And you are doing a damn good job. Thank you for your courage and your hard work.

At minute 3:00 concerning who you would want to marry a relative; 75% of black young men don't stick around to raise their children. Roughly 20% of white, Asian and Hispanic men do stick around to raise their children. This reality wasn't mentioned in the equation, as it never is, about why people feel the way they do. It matters, and to say it doesn't is a lie.

I fell in love with a black girl in high school. My father really liked her.Her father had a fit and made us break up.So ,it doesn't matter what color you are.People are people.

Facts are facts.If you don’t look at facts you can’t solve problems.

Glen loury just had a great conversation with murray as well.

You’re the man Colman! Much love!

Coleman: knowing there are young public intellectuals such as yourself taking these cogent, wise, and fundamentally decent positions gives me hope for the future of our country. Happy 4th

Thank you Colman, for continuing to be a voice of reason and commented sense.

Great perspectives from both guys. Appreciate the willingness to have the conversation at all. I'll subscribe.

I am a Brazilian immigrant and I would be ok with my daughter marrying a black dude in general. But, if the dude were specifically a black American I would honestly be concerned. There’s a rot within the black American community the black Americans just fail to acknowledge. In other words I would be ok with my daughter marrying a black Brazilian, a black Jamaican, a black Dominican or any black man from anywhere in the world but I would be concerned if the dude were a black American. I am speaking in general terms, of course, because it all comes down to the individual level and what family the individual was raised in. This is how black Americans are perceived by most Latinos by the way. Black Americans just don’t leave a good impression to us foreigners. Black Americans come across as very racist too.

What’s funny about my views on Murray is while I disagree on his positions of past historical significance, he is SPOT ON for the present and future America

I'm from the uk. I'm older. I grew up watching happy days and movies like back to the future. I was in awe of how fun and happy certain American communities were. In Europe after the war we had political and economic strife. We had active far left terrorism and the cold war was above our heads All the time. We marvelled at American drive inns, the dazzle of law vegas. The amazing opportunities in new york. The razzle and dazzle of new York. The surfing culture in California. The beauty and escapism of Alaska. We all looked at America and was so jealous at how they have a heaven away from the coal face of the cold war. Europe was broke and had so many problems. Anyway, today it breaks my heart that America is tearing itself apart. Destroying itself. Such a beautiful fun country. Yes there were problems but slowly changed were being made. Please protect what you have built.

Both gentlemen here are making excellent points. Coleman is right that the world is not a rational place, and that many people will handle these sorts of facts about IQ & race poorly. On the other hand, Charles is absolutely right too. Some very misguided people, as well as some quite devious people, have already set the place on fire with the Woke madness. So we need to explain why we actually don't live in a systemically racist society, and that will entail expounding on some difficult truths, unfortunately. The fire needs to be put out - and hopefully the Rubicon hasn't been passed yet.

Props for having the guts to have this discussion. I dont think humans on the whole, have the kind of maturity to react to it in a non knee-jerk reaction, though.

Coleman, why do you interpret a desire to have grand children that look like you to be racist? Racism is the assertion that one race is inherently superior to another. Having a preference that your children look like you and can fit into your culture is not an assertion of superiority, it's a preference.

The reality is that America is not systemically racist, and the lower numbers of achievement and perseverance in career fields are more complex than simply a racial issue. There is a push to get more females into STEM fields. What the studies found is that the lower numbers in STEM fields didn't come from lower opportunities or discriminatory practices it was simply preferences. So that comes back to individual preferences. Affirmative action has been proven to push black kids out of engineering majors by pushing the students into tier 1 colleges like MIT instead of a state college with a good engineering program. The biggest problem we have in America is that our political parties are exacerbating and exaggerating racial issues in America. The democratic party has created a situation that has destroyed black families, neighborhoods, and cities, Now as they are on the eve of blacks realizing this, democrats have begun pushing "systemic racism" as a cover story. This is the cruelest thing ever. To try to convince blacks that they have no chance in America because of their skin color when all indicators say otherwise. I agree with Dr Murry, we are headed for trouble.

Watch Jared Taylor about race and IQ. If people are different based on genetics and certain demographics are prone to diseases at a higher rate than others, then why is it ludacris to believe that genetics, race, and IQ are not linked? For example, Asians appear advanced in Mathematics and technology, hence Asia markets dominate the global technology market. Why is Africa a mess?

"What else could it be?" Why can't it be culture? Black immigrants to the US do well academically.

There have been numerous studies on race & IQ, there is a difference Globally. How many black Geniuses can you name / who Invents Advanced Technologies / who flies $1M fighter planes / who is usually NFL quarterback ?

Our inability as a culture to accept these simple, hard truths has resulted in a large push for CRT.

That thumbnail is hilarious

Imagine a conversation between Coleman Hughes and Lex Fridman. Imagine staying awake through the whole thing.

Coleman, c'mon, you're not fooling anyone with that thumbnail. We all know you'll maintain your meditative demeanor throughout the entire interview.

I am French, I don't know what is happening in USA but I feel that the republic value is going to be destroyed if we don't do anything.. We did a WWII because comunism and fascism... Don't do the same mistake

Something has to be done and unless people see all colors and creeds coming together to oppose this, they will continue to frame it how they want. Make it so we cannot be ignored and gaslit any longer.

As there is a "black" culture (which, BTW, comes from parts of 17th century England and has nothing to do with the African origin of black Americans) which punishes intelligent black kids for "acting white", this explains quite a lot of the discrepancy, if not all of it. It were funny if it weren't so sad that so-called anti-racists promote this culture as "authentic", keeping young black people down in the process. From a white supremacy perspective, this is genius. Instead of making segregation laws black people will resist, promote a culture which makes the segregation automatically.

Far more interesting than IQ differences among groups is average personality differences (and the heritability of said differences). Hopefully more research comes out on impulsivity, sociopathy, excitability, etc.

Thank you for having on Charles Murphy. I am deeply grieved over the agenda that I see being calculated with the _INTENTIONAL_ consequence to divide a diverse and culturally beautiful nation; whose flag represents ethnic groups from all around the globe; including the indigenous. First - PERSPECTIVE using only facts! Since the Civil Rights movement ended the ban on interracial marriage in 1967 we can see on the 2010 census that: Interracial marriages DOUBLED by 1980 and DOUBLED AGAIN in 2008! Per population numbers, BLACKS marrying WHITES = _TRIPLED!_ WHITES TO BLACK = _DOUBLED!_ 2010 Census Shows Multiple-Race Population (INTERRACIAL CHILDREN) Grew Faster Than ANY Single-Race Population: Four groups were the largest multiple-race combinations, each _exceeding 1 million people in size,_ *white and black (1.8 million), *white and “hispanic” (1.7 million), *white and Asian (1.6 million) and *white and American Indian and Alaska Native (1.4 million). I am in an interracial marriage now for 42 wonderful years. My 3 children, 8 grandchildren have dated and married whoever treated them with respect. Our family now represents AMERICANS: BLACK, WHITE, EAST INDIAN, PACIFIC ISLANDER, & SPANISH. Dividing the statistics by Democrat v Republican is, well, divisive! But as AMERICANS: The narrative coming at us, 24-7 is that "White mankind hates Black/Melanin mankind and white mankind devised a system for everyone else to fail. When we voted for Obama, a whopping 65% of whites voted for him. 1/3 of Congress is also not white! And proportionate to their population. Our country is filled with very successful Black persons who looked at their current plight of poverty or, just wanting more, and through their sheer will and self-determination became a success - at whatever they enjoyed (money does NOT determine success). Others took advantage of Black School Grants, Black College Scholarships, Black only Business programs, Black community outreach, and Affirmative Action. Maybe the difference is CULTURE? FAMILY? White culture to kids: _"No one owes you a thing, life isn't fair so be prepared to be kicked to the curb. But Character is built when the world is against you and you learn from your mistakes and never repeat them! Take pride in all you do even if that is cleaning toilets!"_ Black to black marriages in 1967 was 61%. Today: 32% ! That's a lot of young men and women who no longer view the family unit as a priority. Many of the smartest and most successful men will tell you they never finished high school or went to college. They were self read and taught. They made friends with smarter people. The problems we face to day is an AGENDA that portrays Melanin AS STUPID, VICTIMS, and NEED TO BE CARED FOR! That's insulting! The answer is to unite!

I’ve never seen Coleman so animated

Would not need a military... confusing perfect and reasonable.

Your thumbnail is priceless. It really complements those two veins on either side of your head I'd never seen before. Happy to become a financial supporter of your work.

The "would I allow my son/daughter to marry someone of another race" question has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with attitude and exposure.

I disagree about any correlation between race and IQ. A) African immigrants perform as good as any race and B) post slavery blacks were incredibly smart and some could argue that despite all slavery had done, that Jim Crow was worse. If you read about black ambition and achievement right after emancipation it was very impressive. *also i believe a hidden cause of a lot of black suffering was and is Mexican immigration taking over industries that blacks relied upon to build wealth. That and exporting manufacturing to China in the late 80s. Absolutely devastated the paths to financial success for millions of Americans, and a majority of blacks. Even now you see border counties voted for Trump cause Mexican immigration is actually hurting American Mexicans deepest. Even they see open borders for the crisis it is, but this has been going on for decades eroding many means of black success.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to preserve your ethnic identity. Nothing at all.

I take exception to Mr. Murray's comment that it's mainly blacks that have decided it's time for identity politics - I believe it's mainly liberal elites of all races that have decided to push identity politics. If you want to subdivide that group by race, then I would argue that the largest race-based subgroup is white liberal elites that push identity politics. This is the core problem with most discussions of this nature, we allow them to be framed in terms of race - which is a social construct - instead of ignoring race and describing the actual group that is pushing the agenda. Once you engage in defining people by race in any discussion, then you lose the point you were trying to make.

Thank you for this conversation Coleman

We don't live in a reasonable world, but discussion about this topic is imperative due to several reasons. I would agree that there were no mass immigration into America, no policy of racial preferences and if the left wasn't so anti-White, talking about this topic would be at best redundant and at worst destructive for society. But that is not the situation we are in. The left themselves create the need for the discussion of this uncomfortable topic due to the policies they push.

Possibly could've mentioned the percentage of blacks who disapprove of relatives marrying whites... Or any race marrying outside of their race/culture for that matter. What percentage of Chinese or Japanese wed out of race/culture? Indians? Arabs? You can go on and on with the examples so why the focus on white people?

Great thumbnail Coleman!

One thing that annoys me about the racial IQ averages subject ... it's a measure of groups, not of an individual. If you're smart, you're smart. If you're charming, you're charming. You are who you are, and your abilities are what they are. But people take these things personally, as if some average of a million strangers changes the facts about who they are and what they can do. It often affects the initial assumptions of people who you meet, but those assumptions which should be immediately dispelled and/or suspended with any meaningful interaction. We need to dispel ignorance, but it seems the policy dujour is to shoehorn in more ignorance instead. FFS, find something you like doing, practice, and get paid doing it.

Brave of you to cover such a controversial topic- especially these days -bravo

What needs to be looked at is how welfare is structured to encourage fatherless homes.

Knowing what we know, all those who argue that IQ as an accurate measure of “intelligence” is obviously very “intelligent”

Holy shit can't wait to watch this!

The general problem is; multi-cultural societies are dysfunctional. In other words, cultural diversity is decided not a strength. Cultural diversity pits one culture against another in a never-ending and impossible battle to attain financial equality.

First, kudos for addressing this at all. That takes guts. Second, if I could suggest one area for students to be given a better understanding of, it would be statistics. That said, I'd be open about what the research shows. Even though we haven't eliminated confounding factors. Even knowing some people are going to be stupid about it. Even though there are other answers for different outcomes that I think Murray missed (culture and childhood nutrition come to mind). Don't present it as settled science regarding intelligence, but it deserves to be taught as evidence that individuals should consider regarding IQ, because regardless of how much IQ actually corresponds to intelligence, IQ definitely correlates with success in America. Why? Because that opens the door to explaining to people what that means. It's like sex ed; kids are going to hear it, and we want to influence how it's heard. We don't want The Daily Stormer (or The Root) to be the first place people hear about this. Do some kids end up pregnant as a result of sex ed telling them about inserting tab A into slot B? I'd imagine so. But I think it helps a lot more than it hurts. Logic needs data like a lever needs a fulcrum. This research provides White supremacists with ammunition, but they're duds. We already know how to answer those talking points. Whites don't top those IQ charts, and any White supremacist using this as ammunition can be challenged as to whether they're Asian supremacists too. Anybody suggesting they should hire White people just to get a smarter person on average can be challenged on whether or not they should hire tall people, because there's a firm correlation between height and IQ. And thanks to the Flynn effect, the Greatest Generation would, IIRC, score in the 80s on today's tests. This is a valuable tool to push treating people as individuals. And, finally, news organizations have frequently stopped giving descriptions or pictures of suspects, and this has lead a lot of people to assume that the suspects are Black. Often, wrongly. Prejudice, from what I've seen, will too often fill any space where people are afraid to shine a light.

good video brother. This was needed!

*First and foremost, you should treat people based on their conduct and actions. I worry about the narrative that's currently in the media. And I do worry about racism from all sides, which is almost never talked about. A lot of people want to take the natural and genetic part of our true selves, out of the scientifical genetic equation; and rely on idealism for reality. If you believe that we are animals and that we came from evolution over thousands to millions of years. Then, you learn to realize that it's less about free will and idealism. There is a fine line that you have to be careful about. What I applaud about wanting to frame life in Idealism, is that, the belief in bettering yourself and in return, making the world better around you makes life better for Humanity. I love that aspect of Idealism. But it's being perverted and weaponized to manipulate certain portions of this population. It's slowing and sometimes preventing free speech when it comes to science and the truth (which are, at times, manipulated by humans) when in my opinion is the best way to come to educated conclusions on topics. *What worries me about the conversations on this episode is that it talks about us not recognizing patterns as human beings. Like we're not predisposed genetically to see patterns.... thats upsetting to me. It's like you're trying to talk me out of my Humanity. Tell me I'm unreasonable when something comes As Natural as breathing. And completely eliminates any Prospect of using the scientific method to recognize patterns in genetics and Humanity. Several comments state that there's no way to properly obtain credible studies and science data behind the subject of social genetics habits, so it should be completely eliminated (in so many words) all together. ** Anybody feeling me? Love is Everything!

Muhammed Ali also thought it was a bad idea for white people to marry black people, and probably the other way round I assume. He said his reason was esthetic but I suppose he also was thinking about cultural differences and compatibility. The point is, just because a person holds this view, no matter if black, white, or other, it does not mean they are racist in my book, It certainly doesn't mean they necessarily think the other colour person is of less or more IQ. These things are preferences, they need not even be logical or correct (although they might) , they just are.

Real conversation about the meat and potatoes!! YEEESSS!!! Thank you for your bravery Coleman for entertaining these tough subjects..👏👏👏👏👏

Coleman is absolutely right about regular folks that aren't authors and intellectuals DO make these connections between a book like the Bell Curve and the idea of Black unintelligence. Normal people do t have time for the nuance. Now Charles is logical but it leads him to dangerous territory unfortunately.

The thing that always got me is how nobody seems the question the idea, that if you have a society of let's say 90% B-People and 10% A-People, then somehow that society must have a population of doctors made out of 10% A-People and 90% B-People and if not, then that discrepency "proves" that the "system" is racist. This to me is not based on the real world and real human behaviour when it comes to why we go after speciffic professions and why not. There also ist a different problem arising from looking at discrepencies with such conclusions. One conclusion is that "This also proves that the system was created by B-People to only help B-People, which is why B-People are not doing anything to change this system", this conclusion is based on the idea of "over representation" and "under representation", with the first being taken as "proof" that "the system" is being held up like that on purpose. This conspiracy theory is very dangerous when one takes into account that some individuals from some minority groups are "over-represented" in speciffic jobs and positions. In the Documentary "Things We Won't Say About Race That Are True" with Trevor Phillips, Trevor Phillips points out that the Jewish population in GB is very small, yet Jewish people are on average better off than the average non-jewish Brit. Now if one would believe the "Discrepency Theory", then one would end up involved in Antisemitic Conspiracy Theories claiming that Jewish people are better off than anybody else, because they "control the System", etc. etc., which is of course nonsense. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ishinKma0LXbiYk.html (www.imdb.com/title/tt4508300/ "Things We Won't Say About Race That Are True (2015)") So for me the whole problem starts with this idea, that if a population is made of different types of people groups, such as A, B, C, D, where every group makes 25% of the population, then all professions must be practiced by 25% of people, coming out of every group, otherwise "the system" is racist. But this idea, completelly ignores the question, why people go after the job the go after or the profession. We know about anecdotes. I knew for example people, whos fathers were lawyers and it was the parents who decided for the child and not "the system", at least in some cases, but claiming that "the system" decideds is just deterministic constructivism and it simply is simplified to strong and it will always end up in Anti-Semitic and racist conspiracy theories, one only have to think about Migrants from India in the US, who are on average also doing better than the "average white man", which is not something bad, but ends up in a catastrophe, if one takes the marxist worldview.

Isn't Coleman just describing in-group preference?

In his book “democracy in America“, Alexis de Tocqueville states that his biggest fear in the longevity of the United States was the Black people on its soil… He understood that these two people groups were so different that assimilation was nearly impossible. This was in 1839, when he wrote this book.

Fascinating conversation. I am not optimistic about the future of race relations in America. Despite all the progress and change, it seems that there’s those who want to capitalize on Generation Alpha by forcing them to have resentment or guilt or hidden animosity based on the color of their skin.

I love this man's honesty. He has good intentions, which is made clear in this video.

God damn I have mad respect for MrHughes ! He has such sincere intellectual integrity.

Good discussion; both speakers are courageous; end of story.

Just got Charles new book , heard of him from Glenn loury, saw him interviewed on tucker -

Many people don’t want their children to marry outside their own group. I don’t say it’s right just that it’s not unique. What is unique to the English speaking world is that we are willing to say it’s wrong. Italians, Indians, Pakistani, Arabs just take it as natural.

I sometimes chuckle how complex of thought processes are needed to explain common sense conclusions

If he had not published this book, someone would have done it anyways, and without such a gracious preface. Might as well be this author.

Nice discussion -- tough topic -- hit it head on -- nice.

color blindness > prejudiced lenses.... Woke is highly prejudiced.

White people are by social convention disallowed to advocate for themselves while the rest of the demographics are encouraged to do the same thing. I would not want to contribute further to the disadvantage of white people in America by producing a biracial child that will almost certainly identify as that other race and advocate against white people. I'm not totally against dating and marrying a black girl, but that is my reason for leaning away from such a thing in my own life. I don't waste time objecting too much to my family's choices. They will do what they want and that's fine.

Highly recommend reading "Human Accomplishment" to anyone with the ability to think about things in an objective manner.

Most honest video I’ve ever seen!

My argument with Mr. Murray, and the thing that makes me view him with suspicion, is his disingenuous notion (05:09) that it is, "partly Latinos; but it is mainly Blacks", that have decided that identity politics' time has come. It is White Leftists that created the "isms" that plague our society. Marxism, socialism, communism, feminism, etc. It is American academia, particularly the Northeastern and Ivy League Universities, none of which are Black institutions; that are responsible for corrupting the educational process and indoctrinating the youth. Corporations, big tech, the sports and entertainment industries, labor unions and government bureaucracies, are all dominated by White Leftists. The Latinos and Blacks that Murray speaks of, are the puppets of identity politics; not the puppet masters. Mr. Murray is smart enough to know this; so at a minimum, it's intellectually dishonest for him to place responsibility on the messengers, instead of those that pay them to deliver the messages.

I was listening to Lex Friedman's podcast. He had Richard Haier, a neuroscience researcher on as his his guest and his hypothesis is largely the same as Charles Murray's. It is sobering, somewhat disheartening and very honest. IQ is a fact and there are differences among groups of people. The only real debate taking place, and even that isn't as much a mystery as it used to be anymore, is to what extent nature influences general IQ over nurture. Nature is very important and nurture, the environment in which we develop seems to not have as much influence as people think. It's a hard pill to swallow for me but the silver lining is that our society is at least in theory based on the proposition of equality under the law which is an expression of our social ideal. We no longer live in societies organized in castes. That is enough for me and so long as our society judges people as individuals and not as groups, with neither fear nor favor then our society will endure and thrive. If we go down the path of resentment and envy then injustice is inevitable.

I think Murray is right when he says that this signals the end of the American experiment. Not because races are unequal, but rather because the experiment is built on the wishful and unscientific idea that they are. America's inability to deal with the reality of human differences is the main driving force behind the country's continuing descent into chaos, despite having enacted some of the most sweeping and successful advances in human rights that the earth has ever seen. This paradox takes some time to absorb, but it is undeniably, empirically the case. The more the U.S. advances in its goals, and the more sincerely it tries to make things right, the faster it will descend into hell.

To have same morals... is good basis for good Mariage. Is not about lower IQ of someone, but someone background/ race ( culture) does.

Smart conversation!

I’m half black half white and I’m 100% disagree without race mixing. Most people that do it have mental issues/Getting back at mommy and daddy.

In a world where beliefs in race superiority lead to things like slavery, the KKK, and Nazi Germany. Is there any reason to bring up such science that will undoubtedly influence more of such events? Like studying how jewish people suffer from more genetic diseases during 1936, are we seeking to unintentionally add fuel to fire of racism for the sake of fact and science? Why not study how pedophilia affects people born with autism people much higher. Or how sexual diseases are spread more with gay sex.

I can't wait to listen to the whole interview. P.S. I subscribed

We live in a complex world where all of the narratives about the world are simplistic if correct at all. That's why these conversations are so important.

Coleman, respectfully, your remarks are a bit lazy. Those numbers you cite must be contextualized - both over time and across other groups - otherwise they don’t drive much insight. For instance, is that 26% figure up or down from 10, 20, 50, etc. years ago? What is the figure among other groups in the US, and outside of it? Also, Democrats and Republicans alone (and even combined) don’t represent a random sample of the American public. Furthermore, you cannot just presume a relationship between the IQ figures and marriage-attitudes figures without more data demonstrating one. This is intellectual misconduct.

An important discussion. Thanks for this, Coleman.

Treating people as individuals (as a rule) truly is the antidote to tribalism. Generalizations and stereotypes only work at a group level. If you pick an individual at random from that group, many of your assumptions will prove to be incorrect. Tribalism is a deeply rooted survival mechanism to be sure, but not because it is truly predictive at the individual level. It's an all-or-nothing strategy that minimizes risk to the group, but is also insular, it restricts the exchange of knowledge, and it can lead to conflict. In a multicultural society, tribalism is antithetical to social cohesion. We must remain vigilant, and try to be conscious of our own tribal thoughts and instincts as they occur. Choosing to treat people as individuals is THE way to counter it.

As a consultant for over 20 years, I worked on many projects. Each time a new project started, management would invariably have a luncheon or dinner off-site so all members of the team could get to know each other. In the course of each such get-together, Black team members invariably made the point that they, the Black team members, had never asked for, nor accepted any sort of affirmative-action preferences, but had "made it" on their own merits.

“Among blacks, 76% of self-described conservatives, 71% of moderates, and 76% of liberals favor affirmative action programs for minorities.” (Gallup) African Americans do not subscribe to individualism, they are very tribal and collectivist, but they’re happy if other groups, mainly White, are individualists. Their support for the discrimination of Whites and Asians via affirmative action hovers around 72% (Gallup, 2019) over the last 20 years. “…support for affirmative action based on their demographic and political characteristics shows that race is by far the strongest predictor. Ideology is the next strongest, but its effect is only half as large as that found for race.” (Gallup)

Re the marrying black people, the issue is not that they would actually object. It's a limitation of the question. If you propose the idea of marrying a non specific black guy, the mind defaults to the media driven stereotype. Most black people wouldn't let their kids marry that guy. Show them an honourable man and let them shake their hand, I doubt the response would be the same. Not that it matters, but I am black

Important conversation

I clicked this video to listen to the author of the Bell Curve book, and was met by a monologue of some guy who liked the sound of his own voice a little too much…strange.

Proverbs defines stupid as rejecting correction. To me that seems to have nothing to do with eye kyu (the Al Gore rhythm is quick to delete a post that uses the s word and abbreviation together)

Inter-marriage preferences is not racist.

According to a 2015 study by the London School of Economics, attractive people may be up to 14% smarter than less attractive people. This is a fact. Since we are being scientific fundamentalists here, we can promote this fact anytime someone less attractive than us has something to say. We can always say: "On beautiful people are smarter than ugly people". I'm sure this will make life so much easier for beautiful people and I'm sure the ugly people won't become jealous, hateful, etc. See what I did there? We can cite lots of useless facts to promote an agenda. We can consider race and IQ as useless of a fact as beauty and IQ, yet it doesn't and won't stop people with an agenda from citing it. And I don't think it benefits beautiful people to talk negatively about ugly people. If you're more fortunate than some other person, is it helpful for you to also layer it on, by saying you also have a higher IQ because some study said so? If you're tall, if you're white, if you're blonde, if you're good looking, if you're male, you can cite several studies showing that your demographic (on average) has a higher IQ. Tall, white, male, attractive, is also curiously enough on average smarter. So what about the millions or billions of people who are shorter than you? What about the billions of women? What about the vast majority who will be less attractive and also non-white? To promote these sorts of facts can be interpreted in one of two ways. If it's race and IQ people will perceive of you as racist if you insist on discussing the racial differences in IQ as a white person. It's who is delivering this message which taints the message. It's also the case that if a super model looking person is going around telling everyone (using facts) that on average people who look like him are smarter than people who look like you, it's going to likely be perceived as snobby. Who benefits from being perceived as a snob? Who benefits from being perceived as a racist? If you are white, so what? If you are black, so what? I'm not in favor of affirmative action, but I'm also not in favor of race being on the census. Remove race from the US census, adopt color blind policies, but also there is nothing beneficial in grouping people by race of all criteria, and acting like races are different species of humans. Race isn't culture. Race isn't species. Race isn't even deeply genetic. If we wanted to find the genes associated with intelligence we would do a genetic test prior to having people take the IQ test and group by the actual genetics. People who are pushing race and IQ narrative don't care about the genetics. If they did they would know black Americans are mixed, and have in some cases 25% European DNA. They'd also look at the data and see some African immigrants scoring very high on the IQ test and succeeding in areas like medicine while having less European DNA than the average black American. But they aren't interested in looking at genes and success, they are looking at "race" and success.

I think I understand his point. If we just ignore the association of variables like IQ and race for the sake of politeness then we run the risk of eliminating *the* metric that could measure the statistical progress of the black communities in relation to other communities. Education is long seen as the best equalizer available to lift up the lower classes. Robbing it of all measures of progress leaves space only to aimless policies, and indeed what we are seeing now, grievance based policies. As for the inquiry about "would you let your white daughter marry a black man"... especially using those two genders, knowing fair well the natural protectionism of the female gender. I think its one of those disingenuous questions because it is put without the corresponding control group, i.e. how does that percentage compare the same question put with races inverted: "would you let your black daughter marry a white guy".