All of these ideas have occurred to me at one time or another, And I generally agree.

He's illuminating, in a rational way, thoughts and ideas and conclusions we all had. But we are generally good at pushing them aside or to the back of our minds. "Conspiracy" brings them up front and makes them inarguable.

to have this Death Drive and paradoxically an insatiable urge for life is so frustrating and irreconcilable

"The book is disturbing... I've read it twice". Nice!

That. That the book doesn't tell you something you don't already know. That. I've given this book to other people and they either get it or are offended by it. Great in depth review, thank you.

I think everyone who has read the book will agree that there's no going back. Once you're aware, you can't turn it off anymore and everyday things seem to lose meaning. I think all of us are at some point in time aware of this but we just push it back down because we just don't wanna cope with the idea that we may be totally alienated from nature. Anyway, that's just my take.

Great review, best ive heard. For me Schopenhauer is the ultimate, really final word in pessimism and philosophy, im glad he mentioned him, but sad Schopenhauer is out of fashion these days.

I'm reading this at the moment, it's very scary indeed. Not something to read it you're feeling low. But don't you think it's ironic how fearful we feel of thinking about life as devoid of all mean. The very fear we feel is just another example of how we are imprisoned by our consciousness.

Great review. I also loved the book, and I am about to read it for the second time. It made me feel less insane and alone in the sense that it agreed to a large extent with my stance on life.

I really enjoyed your review here. I found myself greatly comforted by Ligotti's book since I have always been surrounded by Optimists and Stoics who drove me nuts. Like you, I am enamored by the dark honesty presented in the book. I got into personality theory for a while as a hobby, and through that I came to believe that we're creatures of both nature and nurture; we are puppets, but we can tug on our own strings to some extent due to our self-awareness. So I feel Ligotti's view was incomplete, but I suppose that he would have considered nurture to be pointless or merely a product of the puppetry around us. I am content to accept Optimism and Pessimism as possible valid views; one will be more 'true' to an individual than the other - it's a matter of personal experience, knowledge, and belief. I definitely feel a strong catharsis when I see such well-articulated Pessimist views - they make me feel more sane and allows me a more complete perspective on the whole of human experience.

This book is not scary, disturbing or shocking at all. It's 100% truth. Life should not exist!

Thanks, James. I will check this one out.

I personally found the book very funny at times. It took pessimistic ideas and presented them in an entertaining way. There's a lot to chew on, but it's not the only book with philosophical ideas that has stuck with me long after I'd finished reading.

Really enjoyed this in depth analysis whilst having your own views on the whole thing. Too many people blindly follow it word for word or read it to constantly try to debunk everything. I do follow this book but I don't think people should act like some sort of messiah trying to "enlighten" everyone to follow. I recently read a book that Ligotti commented on. It's naturally a very dark topic. "Every Cradle Is A Grave" by Sarah Perry. Very rational and interesting read on antinatalism and suicide.

This was a very refreshing take on the book and the topic; really enjoyed the depth you went into.

Rather than human consciousness being the tragic misstep, rather it is all consciousness. Trillions of suffering beings, struggling to survive and coming to painful deaths.

In the book he says something like that everything must end on optimistic note, otherwise it would be too depressing for people. You do the same thing in this video.

I would say there's a fifth self deception. It states that suffering is always a choice.

Fantastic in-depth analysis. I particularly enjoyed the final section where you summarise your thoughts on this book. Your observations about these ideas being subjective opinion and drawing comparison between the pessimism of Ligotti and the optimism of Dawkins is bang on. “I didn’t ask to be born, and all I can really do is my best” is actually a really healthy mindset to have. I have often have similar thoughts. Your unpretentious, straight talking and honest review style is really refreshing. I thoroughly enjoy it and will be checking out your other reviews. It’s a sin that you don’t have a wider audience. I hope your channel takes off soon. You deserve it.

Really enjoying this read. What a fabulous book. I quite get what Logatti means by “puppets”. I think his view is best expressed by the old woman in Voltaire’s Candide where the false love of life is so deeply and persistently coded in the subconscious mind that one might be able to observe it but paralysed to act upon it: “A hundred times I wished to kill myself, but my love of life persisted. This ridiculous weakness is perhaps one of the most fatal of our faults. For what could be more stupid than to go on carrying a burden that we always long to lay down? To loathe, and yet cling to, existence? In short, to cherish the serpent that devours us, until it has eaten our hearts?” Source: Better never to have been

My conclusion was that death is beautiful, and that we have to wait for it while we enjoy life. It also made me an antinatalist, I don't want to have kids but I don't give a shit about other people bringing more people to this world. One of the best things you can do to relieve yourself and others from suffering is letting them live their way, always according to justice. The truth of life, the scientific truth that there is nothing after our lives might be quite depressing for a lot of people but don't worry about it. The truth is insignificant. It changes nothing. The problem of meaning also changes nothing. There's no meaning in life? Who gives a shit? Nobody, no one, not one soul gives a shit about the metaphysical meaning of life. Choose your own meaning, e.g. "I want to learn French and to be able to read french poetry"; "I want to start a family"; "I want to meet the love of my life". Choose what you want, you're going to die, remember it. Do what you want but live according to justice. I'm sorry to be so "authoritarian", I don't like giving orders. I accept all your comments and reading recommendations. I don't speak English very well, I assume you might have seen it by now. Have a great day, don't waste your time in problems that don't matter to us, insignificant creatures.

I loved this review. Very in depth. I even watched it twice. It makes me want to revisit this book again. It covers a lot of different ground. Yes, I’m a little bit unsure what I think about Ligotti’s stance on determinism and free will and all this «puppet» stuff, that is the part I don’t know about, but a lot of this other stuff I feel is hitting close to home, and I realize how much it has influenced my views years back. Especially the parts with Zapffe. Ironically I used to be a big fan of Richard Dawkins too back in the day, so I can see the interesting conflict between someone like him and Ligotti battling it out if consciousness is a good or a bad thing. Perhaps its a two-edge sword. There’s a psychologist Colin Feltham, who has written books on the topic of Depressive Realism which explores even further the idea that depressed people »lose» some of that optimism bias and starts seeing things more «soberly» (aka «real») when at least mildly depressed. A lot of psychological experiments has backed this up. Love his writings. Tali Sharot also has a good book on Optimism Bias which touches upon the same thing. I find the idea that pessimism and pessimists might be one of the most oppressed type of people in society very interesting, and rings true. I didn’t remember that part of the book, but its a quite a novel idea. You asked for people who killed themselves reading Ligotti. Wilhelm Alexander. He still has a channel here on KZfaq, and he used to upload Ligotti related material. He was a huge Ligotti fan. He killed himself. Supposedly threw himself in front of a train 7 years ago. This said it would be just speculation saying he did that just because he read Ligotti, as things like that are usually more complex than just reading a book. However, he had a pretty dark view of life, I’ve heard from people who knew him. I’d be curious what you’d make of Peter Wessel Zapffe’s essay «The Last Messiah», which inspired a lot of Ligotti’s book. Its not that long, but I find it very intriguing. Its only like 7-8 pages long or so. So if you want to continue down on this track - I’d recommend that one for sure. I’d also be curious how you would compare David Benatar’s book with this one.

THE NIGHTMARE BOX sounds very much like a re-tread of an Algernon Blackwood story called (I think) THE MAN WHO FOUND OUT. A good dose of some of the episodes of WAKING COSMOS---the non-interview ones, like A LIVING UNIVERSE might act as an antidote---or at least a counterpoint----to Ligotti-HPL-ism (tho I'm a fan): These are discussions about the evolutionary nature of it all, meaning this "terrible" place we find ourselves in may only be a stage in a long process of perfecting itself. The ideas, based primarily in physics and the study of consciousness, are smart and worth being exposed to, if nothing else. Thanks for the talk! (I guess I won't add, "cheers"!) ;-7

This book is not disturbing at all. What is disturbing is society, capitalism, taxes, consumerism, gurus etc. If you are not depressed at some point in life you are not sane.

“It’s very dark, it’s very dark indeed...” Martin from Game On

Even if u didn't like and understand the book please don't breed. The problem here is that u are still seeing the book in perspective of anthropocentrist, u don't take into account the whole suffering of all sentiment beings, so yes, life IS suffering for those who are empaths and aware of all the suffer out there, in nature, far away from our eyes. Gary Inmendham excellently explains efilism and why the life in not worth living , not my life but life in general.

Great conclusions James. Fascinating book, eating it up right now.

Leo Tolstoy had 13 children despite of his anti-natalist views. Was wondering if his strong views on the subject mainly formed toward the end of his life maybe?

I am enjoying your more detailed review. I would like to share a couple of things you may find interesting. I think the human collective has a need to distort, adulterate and sugar coat almost everything reality shows us to make it more tolerable. This includes religions and mythologies, the essence of which, as far as I can tell, is often very simple and arguably firmly grounded in reality. For example this quote from Guatama Buddha: "Nanda, I do not extol the production of a new existence even a little bit; nor do I extol the production of a new existence for even a moment. Why? The production of a new existence is suffering. For example, even a little bit of vomit stinks. In the same way, Nanda, the production of a new existence, even a little bit, even for a moment, is suffering. Therefore, Nanda, whatever comprises birth, [namely] the arising of matter, it's subsistence, it's growth, and emergence of feeling, conceptualization, conditioning forces, and consciousness, [all that] is suffering. Subsistence is illness. Growth is old age and death. Therefore, Nanda, what contentment is there for one who is in the mother's womb, waiting for existence?" ('The Sutra on Entry into the Womb'. 2014. [the oldest version of the sutra that survived is a Chinese translation by Dharmaraksa from 281 or 303]) Also the following link that demonstrates similar sentiments through out Christianity... www.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/comments/6h1g5p/christianity_and_antinatalism/

Hi James, recent subscriber. Really enjoy your content - it is unique to say the least. I have yet to read the book but issue I take w/ the author is the notion that consciousness was a mistake - that is all semantics. If you believe in Darwinian evolution, then all progress is the result of mistakes - if it does not make the animal fitter for survival it will go extinct. Indeed, it is our consciousness that has allowed us to reign supreme over the animal planet. Indeed, one can say that consciousness and the human brain is the highest form evolution has attained to date and biology's crown jewel.

Excellent review and break down James 👍🏻

20:00 in he said we don't a say in who we are and what we are , I believe that we do have a say in who we are and what we are .

How about Philip Mainländer?

For a better understanding of determinism, check out Robert Sapolsky’s new book on the subject.

ligotti does say that people avoid or hate the truth about the darkness of life. so people will avoid the truth in every way possible,,,, Amen,,,,,,

So far as I can see, there are two satisfactory answers to the reality of meaninglessness (ie nihilism): one is Camus and Absurdism, which is to acknowledge life is meaningless, to not try and stamp on a false meaning (religion, nation, etc), and to simply enjoy the absurd spectacle of existence for what it is, nothing more, nothing less, for the brief time we have to do so, and to take pleasure in our puppet rebellion against the chaotic forces of life, meaningless though it might be ("One must imagine Sisyphus happy.") The second possible answer comes from Max Stirner, who says that once we acknowledge life is meaningless, there's no reason we shouldn't spend all our days pursuing our keenest pleasure for its own sake, making our art for its own sake, and denying anyone's standards except our own - since life is nothing, we are the creative nothing out of which we ourselves, as creators, create everything.

The most enlightening messages are always "Dark". So the truth is dark and the lie is light. I'm confused. I knew I should of came to earth as a squirrel all I would have to do is chase nuts and avoid moving cars and do the same thing tomorrow. Human beings lives are just to damn complicated.

Very good explanation!

I've read it a couple of times when life has been tough and it provides some sort of solace. However, I can't take Ligotti seriously as a philosopher. He clearly hasn't grappled with much of the corpus of Western philosophy and is content to write a sort of performance piece.

Thank you for all your hard work.

The meaning of life: KEEP YOURSELF OCCUPIED. the way to be unhappy: KEEP DWELLING ON MORTALITY AND THE FACT THAT REALITY IS HARSH. give me free will any day

Even though consciousness became our own enemy it has introduced us a voluntary “Exit Button”, Leo Tolstoy’s third solution. . Something that animals are unaware of. I really would like to know your opinion on that. My theory is nature knew consciousness and self-awareness might becomes so painful to actually push us to the edge hence as part of the whole package we also became aware of self-deliverance. Do you think it’s nature’s mercy?

What about stoicism? Existentialism?

Puppets implies the existence of a puppet master, which seems to contradicts the idea that there is no "creator".

👻Logotti is accomplished and abept author ,i really like his work and you channel too 🙃✌

Omg! Tolstoy was a Christian Anarchist! I love him, since I became one.

the book is truly entertaining as well very thought provoking in many ways and places. However it remains within a general occidental limit - even as it destroys the myths very well. yes it does discuss Buddhism and Pessimism in a comparative sense. Thanks for this discourse! and what's wrong with puppets...

Cannot find your book Conservation in print. Interested to read it.

Did you ever end up reading that book on the evolution of deception, and lies? If so was it good/ worth the time to read

Hi, James. I’m about 1/2 way through and definitely like the depth you are getting to here. Two things to mention, and these are very minor. First, I think the way to pronounce Zapffe is zap-fa. Second is that War and Peace has ... 587,287 words!! omfg... Anyway, I’m looking forward to listening to the rest.

Thanks for your review. You've motivated me to reread it.

Consciousness and the development of the analog mind ushered in our role as human RNA in the new technological expression of life. We (RNA) build tools from information inside tech cells. It had great survival value but if we are equipped mentally to do technology then we are also equipped to see our own deaths.Those chimps that can do technology and deny death have an advantage. But alas we can also recognize that we have become a Megacancer within the ecosystem and use the same mental death denial system to cover it up.

Hi James, what about doing a review of The Human Predicament?

I notice in your otherwise excellent review of Ligotti’s book, you quickly pass over Ligotti’s “critique” of transhumanism. But what would be more in keeping with Ligotti’s programme than using technology to cure all the ails which befall the human condition?

You should do a better never to have been follow up :)

Planning to buy it. Should i have a thorough knowledge about philosophy to understand this book?

Will you be making a book review on Livingstone's "Why we Lie?"

Maybe he’s right maybe not there is always a question that I have with many philosophies and if philosophers had therapy or if science and the brain studied more deeply in like the 1700s how would philosophies change I personally do not wanna read the book even though my OCD tries to tempt me but I just don’t want to commit suicide it happened to a loved one and I seen the effects of what I did to the family

Great work mate. Ta.

Peter Zaffe is a Norwegian

I disagree. Consciousness is not a mistake; its source cannot even be discovered, whereas all other biological components have been located ....My hypothesis is that consciousness is a field that we cannot see with human eyes, and our brain filters it, depending on the level of maturity of the brain. Take for example radio waves or xrays...... You can't see the motion, yet the field is there, and an instrument filters it for information. I'm with Eienstien in that there is a lot more going on that we cannot see; we are limited to our five senses. I am not in denial here; I totally get what the author is saying, and I've been greatly depressed about life. However, I am also science motivated (have a science degree in nursing), and an open mind that explores other possibilities for how we are evolving and tapping into sources that separates us from the rest of the animals.

Did you ever read about gnosticism and archons?

Consciousness is not a mistake if you believe in quantum mechanics. The wave function needs to be observed to collapse.

Really loved his thoughts on this book. I have much the same view as the author and James and like to hear people who know the truth speak. So many people say Jesus is the truth but I have found that to be untruthful. I also liked when he said not killing yourself because of what you know is okay. I still can't quite figure out some things about evolution and consciousnesses such as why when we know it produces so much suffering do our stupid bodies still require meat. Some people say plant proteins are enough, but they simply are not for how hard or hearts have to work. So why can't our bodies really evolve past killing animals as our consciences have? That is the million dollar question for me. I also liked the authors view of the earth going as well. I have always thought humans should go and the earth and animals and everything else should stay but that was a comforting viewpoint for the earth to take some responsibility as well. Kind of going down with the ship. I'm for sure going to get the book! Also going to try to find more things of James' to read.

you should read the corporeal fantasy to, by martin butler

Peter Zapffe was a Nowegian.

None of the ideas in this book are that original. Schopenhauer effectively said everything in this book over 200 years ago.

“You will live to see man made horrors beyond your comprehension”

I think I prefer absurdist to anti-natalist philosophy.

Great video. Really, really well done. Thank you. Great insight & breakdown. Here’s my two cents on our current predicament. Keen to hear any thoughts or rebuttal to it please. Cheers. I’m fairly confident that Prime Source Sentience is infinitely & eternally lonely, loveless, confused & bored. Hence this whole Maya/matrix & endless games of delusion, distraction & dreaming. Source would rather experience conflict, drama, tragedy & loss then experience never ending “All Oneness” or aloneness. Could this be possible? Most people have an installed system that deceptively says “show me & tell me anything but the harsh & hopeless Truth” haha. Perhaps this a protection mechanism from the tragic & lonely nature of base reality. Do you think that the origin point of awareness could be a hellish experience of infinite & eternal lovelessness, loneliness, boredom, terror & despair? I do. If this hypothesis is true then all of creation & “reality” is just a temporary & futile means of conscious awareness self~hypnotising, deluding & distracting itself from its unending nightmare of lonely lovelessness. Just my thoughts for the morning ;) Finally…word on the grapevine is that Prime Awareness is truly immortal & eternal & unable to delete itself & end it’s torment. Thus creating & engaging in Maya & its endless illusions, distractions, addictions & violence. The suffering of impermanence & loss is, at least according to good ol’ lonely Prime Awareness, the lesser of two evils 😈 Could this be true? If so I have great empathy for the lonesome Alpha & Omega. Maybe this why the few people who reach enlightenment are said to not talk about it. Perhaps they have nothing (good) to say…. “If you have nothing good to say, then don’t say anything at all” It is what it is ;) “As above, so below, as within, so without, as the universe, so the soul…” Hermes Trismegistus

It's not life that is a horror show😅 it's capitalism thank you❤

Yes Zapffe had a long a fulfilling life but consciously chose not to have children.

Human beings have a higher level of consciousness. 🤔

the 2nd time you red it it was less shocking, again, the dark nature of desensitization

1000 words in War and Peace? Try half a million lol

There are also some things I also disagree for example the but the hole Pessimism is somehow maginelized. Using you're example there are many forms of nihilistic film's and TV shows that have a persimistic tone and are quite well regarded. Come and see, death of a salesman and all is quiet in the wester front

This book makes TOO MUCH sense !

I can't listen anymore, JUST BECAUSE YOU DON'T FIND AY MEANING IN LIFE , DOESN'T JUSTIFY SAYING LIFE HAS NO MEANING , DEFINE MEANING.MAYBE SOME PEOPLE DON'T NO WHERE TO LOOK FOR " MEANING " .

Relativism is a self refuting.

I got to stop looking at depressing stuff it’s not great for my mental health

Do u follow Inmendham?

The holiday analogy is nonsense. Mr. Death is very diligent, and does not sleep !

I often say we live in a Kafkaesque existentialist Absurd world where we are going to die and nothing we have done or worked for means anything...it can be quite liberating in a way because all the things we stress and worry about don't matter anyway so we should just stop bothering so much...or maybe take Monty Python's approach to the absurd meaninglessness just find the humour and laugh at it all.

12 is better than zero.

Regarding your last points in your verdict, I think you may find inmendham's ideas on consciousness compelling, maybe. Strictly Philosophy kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sJqJpM-D3sqRdI0.html The not so hard problem of consciousness kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qdh6rKeSsd_Df58.html

Also, I'm struggling with this view. If life is not meaningful as ligotti and other philosophers claim. If it truly has no meaning, why do we always search for meaningfullness? When we believe we've done something meaningful, is that just the illusion of meaningfulness? It just seems like Ligotti is over projecting a little bit when he claims out existence has not meaning.

I recommend this glorious sound journey as a soundtrack to the book: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Ztyep7p4nNXLeac.html

😂 obviously without God life has no meaning but if you turn off the noise and the propaganda of corporate capitalism in psychologist nakademia and you search your intuition and your dreams you will see that life is far from meaningless❤❤❤ search inside of you for the truth😮 sit in the Sun for an hour and Earth your bare feet do a 24-hour fast good luck on your journey fellow human❤ blessings to all from Toronto

Oh you are anti-religion, yet you claim to disagree with Ligotti on what you yourself claim to irrefutable and undeniable, that's inconsistent mate, you adhering to procreation or even naive optimism binds you in as much mythology as religious people, for more light into this, read the existentialists.

😂😂 watch the dogs playing in the dog park then explain to me again how life is suffering❤

Very pedestrian review. No mention of A. Schopenhauer, who said it all in early 19th century. ( ‘An author called Leo Tolstoy ? That is like saying a boxer named Muhammad Ali !)

Isn’t your conclusion that it’s “just an opinion” one of zapphes 4 methods to escape the truth? Lol

25:25 five inches thick yet only a thousand words long? what is this, the Schrödinger's cat of books?

The wisdom of Buddhist thought is that if one manages to cease desiring, ipso facto, no more desires. Ergo, no more suffering. Schopenhauer echoes this.

Wow, I have juts witnessed how horrific the devil truly is. This is the greatest piece of horror ever created. I believe that determinism and free will are true at the same time. And I believe in the God of the bible. This is monstrous...

Wow. Your outlook on existence is bleak. I also, am against religion, however am not against following Christ and knowing The Most High God. I challenge you (and anyone else) to reserve the judgment that you know everything, suppress pride, ego and preconceptions and come to the truth. Humans aren't evolved from primates, we are created using intelligent design. Please consider the preponderance of evidence all around us that's contradictory to your worldview. This is intended as a friendly rebuke, done out of love. Please dont think otherwise

This probably the worst book on philosophy. I want to read it but was turned off by this review. LIFE is a gift from our creator. You wanna live your life on pessimism? By all means go ahead, but don't kill or hurt others. The universe was CREATED and you are lucky enough to live a small life. Love your self, love your family. This is book is nothing but ridiculous. Mocking life? Come on!

Spiritual Existence before the fall. The curse came and becoming mortal within the dimension of time ruled and regulated by the law of the finite.

I honestly find the book funny at times, in an Anton LaVey or George Carlin sort of fashion. People who know Ligotti personally say that he's a funny guy.