2024 my year fr For more video essays on anime, click here! kzfaq.info/sun/PLshwllJZkgbrU21AkPkj_mxGdiDaPPrpZ&si=imPKnZM9hZ4j8FHl Also check out the Tommylmao Persona Collection: kzfaq.info/sun/PLshwllJZkgbqaJUT5cES6X5XakqIz-BzO&si=EAVk9PNZo5LhfmPi
@corn24542 ай бұрын
Gonna be honest the stuff you talked about in the last bit is why P5 frustrated me so badly I put it down and kinds struggle to get back to it. Just to note I am a fan of Persona, P4 specifically got Mr through High School, though I have my reservations with that games politics, it's better than most of its Era IMO. It feels like the game gets really close to a good message but drops the ball so hard. I just don't like the implications the game has that we need to just, remove corrupt individuals, because it never felt like it acknowledged the system that allowed this kind of corruption in the first place. Not to mention some scenes with Ann, and specific social links I find VERY uncomfortable. Still definitely going to be going back to the game after I finish replaying P3 FES since I never got the chance to finish that, as my friend owned the copy I used.
@anibalhyrulesantihero70217 ай бұрын
A lot of the things that happen in Persona 5 remind me a lot of real life. I'd like to imagine what Persona 5 would be if it took place in the U.S. American social commentary anime-style.
@iliyas65317 ай бұрын
To be fair all of the palaces were based off of real life people.
@anibalhyrulesantihero70217 ай бұрын
@@iliyas6531 Exactly. And that's why it hits home even though it focuses on societal problems that happen in Japan.
@JayAreAitch7 ай бұрын
You listed how Persona 5 kinda presents these topics aesthetically, but I really don't think you gave enough to be able to conclude that it has "many powerful arguments" on them. I don't think that's your fault; I don't think they're present. When making this game, any serious sociopolitical stance was not gonna be prioritised over the aesthetics of rebellion and individualism. As that garbo Cvit video said, Persona 5 is mostly "style over substance".
@fumky47687 ай бұрын
As much as this can be argued, using cvid as a basis for the argument just obliterates any validity. That video has as many holes as persona itself does
@JayAreAitch7 ай бұрын
@fumky4768 Yeah that's why I didn't. I called the video garbo. I just think the title is accurate. Even if I agreed with him, I'm certainly not using his video as a "basis".
@cupckaer93747 ай бұрын
I honestly think you should drive deepen into the tropics in the video, so we could get your point better. At least for me Makoto being a cop is because she what to fix the sistem by inside at least the game hit me with this notion, we even defeat the god of collectivism using a persona unlocked by collectivism so for me persona 5 is more on the neutral side trying to fix the sistem by using both sides.
@FirstPlace975 ай бұрын
So, what you're not quite grasping is the same thing that goes over the heads of a lot of other players as well, which is that P5 is not didactically political as much as it is rooted in the philosophy of Sartre and Camus, specifically existentialism and the literature of L'Homme révolté, The Rebel. For example, you make a big mistake at the start of your video, where you flash the emancipation promotional photo in front of us, dismissing it as "tone-deaf." This is completely and utterly misunderstanding the symbolism of the velvet room's stylizing in P5. In Sartre's philosophy, the TL;DR is that humans are all "condemned to be free" by the virtue of the boundless free will we possess. This is why Joker is the inmate in the velvet room, as opposed to the warm reception the other protags get in their games. Since Joker is forced down a path of rebellion and rehabilitation, we are shackled as the guest, because we have no choice but to be free. Yes, there is an intersection between mild political commentary and philosophy/psychology, but the main allegory is for sure rooted more in established philosophy than any wishy-washy interpretation of changing political dynamics. The message of P5 is true for all of us at all times. We have to put discourse out that moves away from the nonsense take about this game that it's all about "corrupt adults." I'm not saying you're pushing this narrative as well, but it would be good to have a deeper look at what the writers were really saying. They had as much subtext buried in P5 as any game out there!
@theroyalwraith7915 ай бұрын
While P5 does critique modern Japanese society, and thus does criticize aspects of capitalism to some extent, to say the game is overtly anti capitalist seems kinda silly to me. For one, if you do Yusuke’s confidant, the whole thing basically amounts to Yusuke realizing that it’s okay for him to profit off of his artwork, so long as it remains secondary to his actual desire to create. Madarame not only was an artist solely out of self interest, but he actively victimized others in doing so. Generally, the game doesn’t penalize the player for making money, both in the Metaverse as well as the real world. In fact, I feel the jobs you can work are pretty fair. Not only can you come in whenever you feel like, but the managers at the places you can work are generally courteous towards Joker. The only real complaint to be had is the lower pay, but not only is it understandable due to Joker being a minor, the pay goes up rather quickly the more shifts you work, if I remember correctly. Overall, I don’t believe P5 was meant to be political beyond a general anti-authoritarian message. The game critiques law enforcement, the judicial system, politicians, CEOs & big business, the list goes on. I feel people miss the point of the game, and it’s a common reasoning error many people, especially left leaning people make. The problems of capitalism are not a result of inherent flaws with capitalism, but are due to the inherent flaws of human nature. If there is power to be had, whether in a privatized capitalist system, or a heavy handed socialist government, people with corrupt desires will seek it. Shido’s rise to political power wouldn’t have been nearly as worrisome if Japanese government, as well as its society as a whole, weren’t so top heavy and collectivist. The fact that the anti collectivist message of the game would conflict with any socialist, anti capitalist message should itself tell you that no, the game is not anti capitalist. Does it have its issues with modern capitalist society? Yes, but to say it’s overtly against it would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.
@theroyalwraith7915 ай бұрын
All due respect, but this video reeks of confirmation bias. The inconsistencies section asserts that the anti collectivist message contradicts the supposed anti capitalist message, and that Makoto becoming a cop contradicts the supposed anti cop message, and rather than reconsider if these are the intended messages, it is just assumed that these are flaws in the games narrative. The ending of the video also implies that change must come at a collective level, but the game itself shows that collective action is harmful to the individual. I feel that the ending of the game, ironically, is meant to say that the only collective action that will really change things is a collective exaltation of, and reverence for, individualism. The people come together to say that they don’t want to live under the thumb of societal pressure. To be anticapitalist is to believe that people should not be able to act in their own self interest. You cannot truly believe in individualism, and be against capitalism, as individual autonomy must imply private ownership and voluntary transaction (capitalism).
@soraniostaur38397 ай бұрын
6:11 amazing video, but this timecode made me actually roll my eyes fam x.x
@KatMorningstar33 ай бұрын
Never got that Kawakami video :'v
@Tommylmao3 ай бұрын
It’s cooking
@Error-4O47 ай бұрын
This is a really cool essay! From one essayist to another, I love how you pointed out the very obvious politics that some people are blind too. Persona 5 is very anti capitalist. I’m more biased against Maruki’s reality personally- I study philosophy, music, and English in school so I’m coming at it from a philosophical view. Personally, I would rather not live in a world where my free will is taken away in any sort of sense. I think that’s a very anti-human thing, but, as someone with a lot of physical disabilities, the prospect of having them all healed is very tempting. Great work!
@Tommylmao7 ай бұрын
Thank you for the kind words! I participated in a few videos related to Maruki that I think might interest you within this playlist, would love to hear your thoughts on them as well kzfaq.info/sun/PLshwllJZkgbqaJUT5cES6X5XakqIz-BzO&si=WdT9MOZza5iUttz_ Cheers!
@anibalhyrulesantihero70217 ай бұрын
I can honestly understand the perspective of the two endings
@Aerie14057 ай бұрын
Persona 5 has legitimately radicalised me into being a leftist
@JayAreAitch7 ай бұрын
I very much doubt that was their intention, although actual leftists would benefit from trying to make their own anti-establishment action look as cool as P5's "anti-establishment" action does.
@s_oba7 ай бұрын
💀
@oriongear24997 ай бұрын
I just view it as Non-Woke entertainment. Edit: I don't think P5 is "Anti-Establishment", but rather a commentary on various societal aspects of Japan some might find...unsettling. I mean, come on, they literally had the PTs recruit the daughter of a CEO-turned-politician to have her Dad's heart, and then an Assassin caused a mental shutdown which killed him so Atlus, and by extension, the player, would critique the PTs on a ideological and moral playing field. PS. A lot of people (on Twitter of all places) suspected the corrupt politician, Masayoshi Shido, to be based on the Japanese politician guy, Shinzo Abe (RIP), which I don't agree with. What I think he's based on, however, is how Japanese people see their politicians in a apathetic and untrusting lens.
@JayAreAitch7 ай бұрын
@@oriongear2499 GO OUTSIDE. TOUCH GRASS. SPEAK TO A LADY.
@anibalhyrulesantihero70217 ай бұрын
I agree
@jokubasdavidavicius64047 ай бұрын
Good Video, but I heavily disagree with your last point on individualism and anti-capitalism being incompatible or in a certain way individualist society and ideas being susceptible to capitalism. This shows your lack of knowledge on the subject of individualist socialism and anarchism and misinterpretation of the game. 1. nowhere in the game is there an appraisal of individual power over collective. I don't know if you saw this, but the Phantom Thieves are a Collective and what frees Joker in the end of the game is not his own individual action, but the collective strive for it by his friends and confidants. 2. as I said you should read up more on anarchist and socialist theory. There are many a way one can be an individualist anti-capitalist. If you're interested I recommend "The Right To Be Greedy" and "The Soul of Man Under Socialism"
@JayAreAitch7 ай бұрын
I think his interpretation of the climax being individualistic comes from A) The fact that it's about breaking away from society at large, and B) The fact that a small group of INDIVIDUALS are spotlighted in contrast to the faceless NPCs
@nvire6 ай бұрын
i think what gets me with the argument in the video is that he's referring to the collective apathy that developed in mementos as "collectivist" which draws a completely different meaning than the game portrays-- i think toward the end of vanilla p5/p5r pre-3rd sem, society collectively resigns to the holy grail due to the country's state of affairs (capitalism affecting several facets of society, which i think would have been a great point re-emphasizing how the game is political in nature), and not because they all had any particular goal in mind. it is capitalism that drives people to fend for themselves and do what they must to survive, which is how okumura got away with using his workers like that to expand the company for so long
@bobchicken90567 ай бұрын
atlus needs a change of heart better yet their publisher sega
@dangerousgrace74786 ай бұрын
You must be lucky to be with a girl who is just like you
@utensick13087 ай бұрын
I'd doubt all art is political most could be but a lot really doesn't scream Something is wrong or right
@basedtortellini7 ай бұрын
2024 we so back
@Yuni_VO7 ай бұрын
First!
@clemenswischman69346 ай бұрын
✋ 'promosm'
@oriongear24997 ай бұрын
I don’t think Persona 5 (both Vanilla and Royal) is political (then again, I’m a Persona and JRPG fan who’s apathetic towards politics), but it does allude to some controversial aspects of Japanese culture and society. Edit: When Mishima set up the voting poll feature on the PAWS, I knew instantly that he was setting the PTs up to be brought down, even if he didn’t know that was going to happen. Edit 2: If I were to be one of the Palace Rulers, I’d likely be similar to Kunikazu Okumura, as my view towards women in the workforce and corporate hierarchy has soured thanks to woke, modern feminism. Edit 3: If you had to ask me whether or not I’d accept Maruki’s offer for a better reality, I’d accept it without hesitation, simply because there were so many things I wanted to be growing up, from an artist (both drawing and digital art) to a borderline 5-star cook, but couldn’t due to a range of factors, from the US education system not motivating me to learn anything to my parents being busy with work and leaving me in a daycare with kids I never knew all that well.
@thiagobasso35217 ай бұрын
"I'm someone who's apathetic towards politics" *Uses the word woke Bruh
@Aerie14057 ай бұрын
Alluding to controversial aspects of Japanese culture and society is political inherently
@JayAreAitch7 ай бұрын
@@thiagobasso3521 Yeah anyone who uses the word "woke" is showing their whole hand, and in this case it's that... he doesn't want WOMEN IN THE WORKFORCE? I know that this is the Persona fanbase and this is therefore a moot point, but damn this guy needs to get laid
@anibalhyrulesantihero70217 ай бұрын
Define woke
@mysticalakatsuki48187 ай бұрын
Kind of crazy that because you don't like modern feminism that's affected your view of women in the workplace. It's giving sheep mentality for me. You can disagree with something and not jump to something else that's extreme. Just a heads up. Though given how you'd accept Maruki's reality I imagine you're someone who prefers the easy way out...