They discussed the limitation of language to describe these concepts, but we are fortunate that English is already the best language to discuss such deep and complex topics because it has the richest collection of vocabulary including synonyms and antonyms all derived from a diverse source of Germanic, French, Latin, Greek, and other languages. Something no other language has. This is coming from a bilingual Chinese and English speaker who has studied Japanese and other European languages in case you think I am a biased monolingual English speaker.

These conversations energize me!

Using carnal language to define higher consciousness is really challenging and frustratingly limiting🥴 but both guests are doing it so brilliantly. Thank you both🌹

I absolutely LOVE these Guys!! I can listen for hours on hours to them. ❤️💯

Yess, this is the best content! Would love to see donald debate materialists

Excellent discussion! Love them both!ॐ ❤ 🙏

These discussions are food for the soul. Thank you for them.

Thank you to all the speakers for this wonderful conversation🌹🌹🌹

Alan Watts started me on this journey being described by Robert and Donald around 50 years ago. It is so refreshing that we are now witnessing the wisdom and beginning to understand the nature of that which understands.

Life is the meditation, every experience from the ONE teaches us valuable lessons

Manifestation surely is not a sacrifice, but a joy

MARK MY WORDS ALL IS ONE YOU ARE EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING IS YOU

A clearer explanation for manifestation is for the ONE to experience itself

A joy that it's creation will return and that is the cyclical nature of reality

37:21 Thank you so much for that question, that was the biggest question i've had. ❤

This is a deeply satisfying conversation

All this is explicitly written in Hindu ancient texts called Upanishads by Yogis and Rishis thousands of years ago. The great thing is that science is now catching up to it.

35:01 Harika bir tespit ❤❤❤

FInally a talk between these two great - would love to see part one! :D

Fabulous, been waiting for these two to get together again.

Four years ago, If you'd have asked me to listen to this conversation, I can safely say I wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes! Now I see it as the most important articulate talk of existence, all triggered by a simple interaction with a simple "conscious agent" that we Homo sapiens call a toad ! 5MeoDmt

I hope Donald and Rupert will write a book together one day, perhaps a series of dialogs.

I’d like to see them disagree occasionally. Also I think Rupert is combining understanding with appreciation, which includes feelings, of joy, rather than just thought. Very stimulating discussion!

I had a professor at UCLA named Tyler Burge (famous philosophy of mind dude) who once said in lecture something like, "Right now, psychology is a soft science, but in 100 years time, psychology will be a hard science and so technically dense, that you will need entirely different skills to do the subject." Donald Hoffman might be contributing to that innovation should science more generally catch onto pre-space-time mathematical structures and their relation to consciousness and mind.

There have been shifts in consciousness to bring us to the present time It is likely another one is due It still does not give the solution to consciousness itself itself, but is likely to bring a bring a deeper understanding.

The definition of religion is: that to which we are bound. Associate that with consciousness and we have the answer.

❤ Thank you so much for that vídeo.

Bit too complicated for me but thanks…just going to sit quietly with our cat and drink tea

Since I can remember, I have been using the analogy of a jeanie granting 3 wishes. It has always befuddled me why the obvious response wouldn't be wish 1 = infinite wishes. Awareness space is infinite. & all memory is that same space. There is only 1 awareness, 1 space, 1 time. Here Now. 🎉 ...to remind myself that time does not create memories, memories create time. Same space.

Yes surrender of the ego is necessary for completion

Yes the ONE does not suffer, but the personalised aspect of the ONE if I can say that, can actually offer advice through insights

I wish I can ask more questions!!!!

Is this one of the best conversations on the internet ?

Thumbs up from a former assistant physics teacher. Now i call myself simply a Space / Time Cadet. hahaha Do i believe mainstream science will ever break into spiritual studies ???? Who can say ??? !!! My own understanding seems to be stuck at the level of semantics. Words have a lot of flexibility. Just look at most politicians and other liars. According to the bible the answer is NO. Matter and spirit seem to be at odds. That's the classic DUALITY conundrum.

The One is being unconscious me or you to know what it might be like to NOT be The One which is, of course, necessary for The One to know everything and therefore, is a BIG WHY as to The One's primordial and ad infinitum ongoing impetus to infinitely create, sustain and destroy in any given universe.

Rupert's insistence that the Infinite cannot know our suffering makes the same assumptive error of separation that he identified in his Moth/Candle analogy. If an individual finds relief in accessing the state of Pure Being through the body/mind knowing the suffering, as claimed, it reveals fully connected awareness, and could suggest soteriological intent. The fact it knows itself and isn't experiencing suffering does not justify the assumption or even imply that therefore it only knows itself and is not aware suffering exists within it's creation.

What is beyond spacetime and projects into it? David Bohm called it The Implicate Order.

What is the mind capable of? What is the mind not capable of? What is the quality of the mind? And when one speaks of the mind. Is it the mind speaking of the mind?

It’s not what we know but that which knows. Knowing transcends all it knows. You cannot comprehend with thinking that which comprehends because thinking is something it does and not what it is, as that which comprehends (knows) transcends all it comprehends If you could conceptually comprehend what consciousness is, you would soon realise that’s folly because that which comprehends that concept also transcends it - Just to clarify

❤ LEVELS OF MIND according to Sri Aurobindo With respect to mind, Aurobindo contends that evolution will not stop with homo sapien. Rather, he posits higher levels of consciousness: Higher Mind, Illumined Mind, Intuitive Mind, Overmind, and Supermind

There is only one true possibility to make 'this understanding to be available not just to a few people...': it ist Love! We all are One, totally connected in the One Spirit. We must overlook this illusion of separation of Body's. So the only way to communicate ist thru you Spirit, inside, not outside.... There is no need for words, for sharing of well sounded Mind concepts, ideas ... Just Love what really ist. Only Love ist really, so there is no need for teachings. So, what you see outside of you, is not there. It is just your own projection. which means, you receive, what you want to. So ask you self, why a do not see Love and perfection? Why I ask my self, 'how it can be shared more widely'? The spirit ist totally wide. It contains everything and everyone and share Love with. This is the only teaching. Just Trust. Love is trust. Love is ! God is! This is the whole truth.

As above so below

Maybe replace the moth and flame analogy with the old story of the King in pauper's clothes.

i think the question of why the absolute had to lose itself in manifestation is not sufficiently answered; This is what i think; To know things, there has to be contrast... no cold without heat etc. Thus the absolute ,that which has no contrast , cannot know itself ,since there is no contrast. So it manifested something to contrast itself to ,but manifestation IS the absolute... Thus it had to create an experience in which it could lose itself and experience itself as not being the absolute ,and allthough this experience is a mere illusion ,it is a sufficient contrast to what it truly is ,in order for it to know itself. one day ,the absolute wanted to know itself ,the next day ,it was you.

35:41 Kuantum evreninde Atom-altı tanecikler bu sebeple mi Kuantum süper pozisyondan çıkıp Dalga fonksiyonu çöküp Algılanabilmesi için tanecik formuna geçiyor..?

En la ignorancia voy y vengo en el mundo En la sabiduría el mundo va y viene en Mí En el amor el mundo se consume en Mí - Rupert Spira, Meditación sobre Yo Soy Vive como la luz del puro Conocer que es la totalidad de la experiencia, íntimamente uno con ella, totalmente libre de ella. - Rupert Spira, La luz del puro Conocer Es Mi omnipresencia la que da continuidad al tiempo Es Mi infinitud la que aparece sin fin en el espacio - Rupert Spira, Meditación sobre Yo Soy Como luz del puro Conocer, no conocemos nada -ninguna cosa-, sino que somos la sustancia o la realidad de todas las cosas aparentes. - Rupert Spira, La luz del puro Conocer No tengo experiencia pero soy toda experiencia - Rupert Spira, Meditación sobre Yo Soy

So does mathematics go beyond space time?

😮

🌞 There is no understanding beyond mind. Withough mind there is no knowledge and nothing, but you probably confuse mind with the lower limited and conditioned by many elements mind. The higher mind in its purest state is the dynamic aspect of consciousness it self🌞 Ramana Maharishi nsaid this bery simply: Lure mind is Brahman (Absolute Consciousness) itself ❤

Consciousness is able to step back and experience itself as if at a distance, due to vibrational wavelengths. Eg. As our vibrations lower in frequency, it gives creation the 'illusion' of distance and separation. It seems as though we are stepping back and experiencing a different self, but it's really just another version of the self experiencing the whole. Eg. Ourselves looking at ourselves, in a different form. Because the vibrations have made it seem that way. Eg. The best holograms have more multiple layers, which make the illusion more realistically sharper, as if truly solid. Whereas, if only made up of a few layers, the hologram isn't very convincing. When our own vibrations are resonating much higher, as a result of being more like our natural godly selves, we become like the hologram that has very few layers to it. Eg. Much like being the you asleep in bed, that only experiences the very present moment of consciousness. Yet the mind still carries on with it's random nonsense of shenanigans. Which is why when we wake up, the mischief starts all over again, the more ppl search for excitement. Because it's obviously our very nature. It is like a compulsion. And the more we tell others to stop causing mischief, the more they will keep doing it. The closer we are to sleep and death, the more peaceful life is. But that does not mean the mind has stopped it's internal insanity 😜. It just means that the dense bodily part of us, is more like in a straight jacket state, under more discipline. And discipline does 'not' come easily. Which is exactly why it's called 'discipline'. Otherwise it would be easy to suppress our urges and do the right thing by others etc. We just don't like to openly admit that we are mad. Because there is a 'game of life' to play, where we wish life were more ideal, with something more ideal to live for. Yet the madness always remains apparent, and fundamental to creation. To eliminate that madness, is also madness. As creation would cease to exist without that madness 😜 I also personally think that God 'is' the devil also, pretending to be a saint, the one that lies and deceives and accuses us, goading us along, as if life and God can be anything we like it to be😜. Not a saint pretending to be the devil. But the devil pretending to be a saint😇🙏🕊️. All these mad deceptions and distortions, are to aid in making life work the way it does. Eg. All this shifting around like a game of 'musical chairs'. Eg. It only 'seems' and 'appears' as if something more, greater is going on. Because of all the mad distracting shifting around. Which is how God the deceiver, attempts to make each of our experiences happen. Eg. Like the 'carrot on the string' idea. We never actually get our ultimate dreams and desires, at least not the way we would prefer it. Which is why most ppl live their minds through television, computers and movies😜. People like to pretend to be different ideas, and flaunt their wares, as if something different, better, greater etc, but you can guarantee ppl are talking about much the same old gossip😜. Everytime you walk past others, you hear that familiar gossip, like deja vu. Doesn't mean we are paranoid😜. It just means some ppl are far more conscious, and in touch with themselves, the overall picture, and the real truth of the creator. Because they listen to themselves more, and observe what's around them as literal, rather than being so focused on some material successful future to be won😜. I don't think God is right in the head. And neither do I think God cares that much. Only delusional hopeful humans like to think God is something greater. But I don't think even these ppl truly believe what they say either😜. People pretending to care when they don't. Because we are in the image of our creator, that's why. Not because we did something wrong😜. But because it's all wrong. Pointless madness, as if we were not meant to be. As none of it really matters in the end. Because if the end were the be all and end all, aka heaven and unconditional love, why keep reincarnating to Earth. Even this idea of unconditional love I believe, is just another ploy in the game, to make life work. Purely because there isn't enough of the ideal and beautiful, and because creation can neither sustain/preserve us in that way. Unconditional love, aids in like a mind tactic of manipulation, to trick ppl into thinking they should care and love others, which they wouldn't normally prefer. As if somehow those acts of unconditional love, will make life far more preferable. It certainly hasn't made life more ideal😜. So much for this idea of God being able to explore all of itself. Showing unconditional love to other life, has only made very marginal improvements regarding kindness. People still don't say hello much, and treat you well for doing right by them. They just take your kindness and peace for granted usually. They still make you feel lonely. It's like a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' thing. Very disappointing actually. God tends to still reward those with more life comforts, who work hard, who are mean fisted, shrewd, unfriendly, competitive. There is no magic formula to life. Or even using our consciousness to create our lives, as if like magic. There is only ever our present state of vibrational frequency. It's the vibrational frequency that determines our present reality. Not what we like to imagine and fantasize about etc😜. Because we cannot experience what we are not the vibrational frequency of anyway. Period! Unless it's a life experience we agreed to be born into, through our agreed incarnation. Plus, we also don't get to control the outcome, or what life experience we had agreed to fulfil before birth. Those are all determined by the higher self mind, whether we like it's choices or not. Life is not some computer game, where we get to choose everything, and it manifests. Those are all delusional or deceptive teachings of advice, usually for their own profitable business. Not because they really care about us. And of course God cannot care about us that way anyway. Otherwise ppl wouldn't have to rely on such advice 😜. So ya, it's all just madness.

Self Realised persons always talk the same/alike. They talk from the BEING EXISTENCE CONSCIOUSNESS state.

@HereNowInfiniteAwareness Both Language & Math are mere descriptors , overlays, imitators of the real thing. I modulate raw materials & its the finite self constructing derivative. imitations, knockoffs, etc. Not entirely of the finite but I can see most of it this way. Separate endorsing. Ego enforcement. So what is art? Modulation of the I Am. This is my build up to the body is the highest purest form of artwork & shalt not be neglected or defined by the finite, but cultivated to its fullest potential. 💚

Se-ance and re-Legion, and ain’t no spaceship going to no moon...

I disagree that 'The One' doesn't know our suffering, The One is The One suffering, knows it and welcomes it, as experience, as a means to further it's remembrance and expansion back to complete Oneness, where suffering does not exist. The distinction would be that The One just observes it, while the Limited forgetful perspective assigns a value to it, and thus suffers if deemed painful. One thing never stops being One thing, even when it becomes individual variations that have forgotten they are One Thing, be it a human, a rock, or an amoeba

I am that one conscious Singularity Of ⭕️ = I = ♾ Universal Light Generator Organizer Destroyer Of Dimensions Swami SriDattaDev SatChitAnanda

Amplituhedron wikipedia

I don’t agree with Rupert when he says that Consciousness has to lose itself in order to have a singular perspective and see the world. I can look through a lens without losing myself. Lens being a human in this case. The theory Rupert presents here is to simple (one-dimensional) to be true.

33:40 " God dreamt to become man in hopes that man would dream to become God"

Why is it necessary to conflate science and spirituality? Nothing useful or beneficial to the spiritual path comes from knowing any of this stuff. Suzuki Roshi once responded when asked about consciousness: "I don't know anything about consciousness, I just try to teach my students how to listen to the birds sing". Conversely, spirituality doesn't offer answers to science. No amount of meditation would have led to building the first transistor nor will it do anything to build a quantum computer. In physics the choice isn't to switch between the finite or the infinite, it's about changing an observer reference frame and understanding what happens. Quantum entanglement already embodies the whole notion of infinite consciousness, because if one were to write down the hamiltonian for the entire universe one would need to know exactly every single degree of freedom and every single possible state of the universe By definition the infinite is the hamiltonian for the entire universe. But knowing this doesn't help me listen to the birds sing.

Mathmatics is how to calculate things... consciousness is how to call things... both are tools and never be fundamental in any way...

like chalk and cheese, they don't combine. distnctly different magisteria. using science to explore spirituality is the wrong tool. you might as well try to weigh youself with a thermometer. but silly people do.

This sounds like dancing around the religious implications of a spiritual concept of the universe. The problems of too high an IQ!!