The Correct Answer on Disc Brakes vs Rim Brakes

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The Correct Answer on Disc Brakes vs Rim Brakes

Рет қаралды 108,097

10 ай бұрын

In which I try for the 1000th time to make a nuanced argument on the internet. Wish me luck.
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Пікірлер: 604

@CommaCam 10 ай бұрын

I have both, but I still prefer the simplicity of rim brakes and their ease of maintenance. And they stop fine for me. The main advantage I see with discs is the ability to run wider tires and not wear down the rim itself during braking. Then again the rear wheel on my commuter bike (rim brakes) is about 20 years old and still going strong.

@AB-fh9zh 10 ай бұрын

Same. Direct mount rim brakes are my favorite for >90% of the riding I do (followed by dual pivot). In mud, gravel and sand, I do really appreciate the disc brakes.

@stevenmeyer9674 9 ай бұрын

The ability to use wider tires is a pretty big thing. Also no more overheating the rim from hard braking. The maintenance can be a bit of a hassle though.

@denverspin 8 ай бұрын

Yeah, I’ve been cycling in different conditions for many miles, and have never burnt through a rim.

@stevenmeyer9674 8 ай бұрын

@@denverspin Burning thru the rim isn't the issue. But it is possible to heat the rim to such level to blow out a tube. But the biggest advantage is the ability to use wider tires that are not only safer, more comfortable, and faster. A triple win.

@dhanso928 8 ай бұрын

Here's one. Rim brakes for me, tubular tires. After 9 years on my favorite climbing wheels, 22m Reynolds that I got on eBay, used, for $300, I finally wore the rear braking track. I normally do about 6000mi a year, and a LOT of mountain passes. I'm not a climber at 6' and between 165-170lbs but it's my thing, big climbs in the western US. Descending Old Man Pass (Wa. St.) only 2000' vert with some steep and 15mph switches I noticed my rear was buzzing under hard braking. It was down to fabric. Ok, went home and put that rim aside, but I really liked it. cut to the chase, I decided to fix it and with my carbon experience I applied WEST epoxy/barrier coat to the brake track. A bit tricky but I've been back on that wheel now for a few months and it's still good as new. Cool stop pads and 8000 Ultegra calipers. My reason to ride tubbies is I really really don't want to have a blowout with clinchers on most of the descents at 40 50mph and rather significant drops off the sides of fast hard corners. Long, sorry. I also almost always go to the climbs with my bike inside a car, front wheel off, derailleur side up if it's a hatch. Not a good thing for disc.

@fedearbelaez4912 10 ай бұрын

The shift to disc brakes mostly revolved around the rim-brake carbon wheel issue. Carbon surfaces aren't ideal for braking, and cyclists can debate rim vs. disc ad nauseam, but carbon wheels are universally craved. Changing to discs eliminated the problem of rim overheating while breaking, which caused mounting liability/warranty issues, and helped relax the manufacturing and material costs with no decrease to the final price. Rim brakes on machined/ceramic track alloy work wonderfully, but it's not what the mainstream market wants.

@simonorr594 4 ай бұрын

Thank you for the comment - and I'd like to add poor wet weather performance for carbon rims. I guess that's why Mavic Cosmic wheels hold their value.

@edmcguirk8603 4 ай бұрын

I agree, I don't have carbon wheels, I don't ride in the rain, rim brakes are far superior for my lifestyle. I have first gen Sram eTap and I hope it never dies because nobody is offering electronic shifting for rim brakes going forward.

@dfxl6587 4 ай бұрын

“Carbon surfaces aren’t ideal for braking” 😮 wow! We had better tell all the F 1 teams to go back to steel or ceramic brakes to improve their lap times, or....... maybe.......

@lunam7249 4 ай бұрын

mainstream bike companies sellers want disk!!! not mainstream bike BUYERS😂😂😂😂😂!! you ever try to balance hydraulic disk brakes??? good luck waste a day doing that!!

@lunam7249 4 ай бұрын

carbon wheels are craved ONLY at the same price point as spokes🤔

@mattstegall 10 ай бұрын

Psssst....(whispers) rim brakes are giant disc brakes.

@JohnDough-yr2zt 4 ай бұрын

They are not. Hence, the different words we use to describe them.

@lunam7249 4 ай бұрын

😳😳😳correct!!! more braking torque!!!❤❤❤...

@beeble2003 3 ай бұрын

@@JohnDough-yr2zt They are if you have a disc wheel!

@cebruthius Ай бұрын

Psssst, rims have tubes on them that aren't going to survive 200 degrees C.

@lunam7249 Ай бұрын

@@cebruthius nothing is getting 200C!!!😂😀😅, barely 100C at the hottest point,the entire wheel will barely +10C over climate , its a bicycle not an F1, or a 747!! 😺😺😹

@67daltonknox 10 ай бұрын

My rim brakes will send me over the bars on a steep descent, so I'm not sure that more braking power is going to do much for me. They are also lighter, require less maintenance and don't squeal much.

@vyas555 10 ай бұрын

Same experience here. If I'm hard on my front rim, the back wheel lifts up so easy in a 5% descent. Don't known what the fuss is about. No to bleed brakes, so easy to maintain.

@jaybobd 10 ай бұрын

that's the point. Disc brakes allow more slowing of the wheel before complete lock up. Rim brakes apply pressure to a certain point and then just grab.

@MM-kt5dv 10 ай бұрын

No, they don't@@jaybobd

@jaybobd 10 ай бұрын

@@MM-kt5dv It's well established that they do. Disc brakes outperform rim brakes in virtually every stopping situation. "Disc brakes provide a greater mechanical advantage than rim brakes. They use leverage to multiply the force that you put into the lever. In other words, they’re more efficient. This allows the calipers to apply more force to the braking surface which helps to slow the bike down faster. Disc brakes also have a larger surface area for the brake pad to grip on to. This increases friction, allowing you to slow you down faster. Disc brakes are more precise and are easier to modulate-You can feather the brakes and just shed a bit of speed or you can brake hard and slow down fast. This allows you to stop faster without worrying about accidentally locking up your wheels."

@MM-kt5dv 10 ай бұрын

I was replying to "Rim brakes apply pressure to a certain point and then just grab". They don't "just grab", sorry. That's never happened to me on any rim brake bike. Ever. Nobody's arguing that disc brakes have more power than rim. brakes, it's a matter of application. Rim brakes have more than enough stopping power on a road bike in dry conditions. Disc brakes are better on commuter bikes, etc.@@jaybobd

@sdmike1141 10 ай бұрын

Man…no one’s mentioning the unicorn in the room…the jabs at corporate plunder and pillaging at the close. GANGSTA!!! Thanks Phil.

@christianjensen5523 Ай бұрын

Besides the superior performance, the two huge advantages for disks (especially hydraulic) that sold me are 1) As a gravel rider often riding through mud, there are no pads to catch the muck and gum up, and 2) If your wheel goes out of true it’s not a big deal at all, unlike with rim brakes.

@user-dd8cu7hd5m 10 ай бұрын

There should always be a question of needs, not just mindless following of trends. I answered mine - rim on road bike, disc on gravel. Road bike for dry weather, gravel for wet conditions. That's what works for me.

@hugejackedman1951 8 ай бұрын

i love my cantis for commuting/touring. easy to maintain, cheap, allow me to run comfy tires, stop reliably rain or shine. love 'em.

@byrondixon4648 10 ай бұрын

Rim brakes:- lighter, cheaper, easier to work on and travel with and stop not quite as fast as disc. Sticking to rim if I can 😊

@FPL_Drago 10 ай бұрын

Agree with this...but I'm moving more and more to disc. When I travel and hire a bike (with discs), I always come away wanting disc brakes on my own bike.

@daniboi4067 10 ай бұрын

Yup Rim for road Disc for Dirt

@hmcps89 10 ай бұрын

Disc is best for steep descents in tropical areas

@br5380 10 ай бұрын

Still on drum brakes in your car, or do you appreciate the better & more reliable stopping power of discs?

@euqet01di 10 ай бұрын

@@br5380apples to oranges

@BrianRPaterson 10 ай бұрын

Well put. I made up my own mind years ago. I don't race. I ride down steep hills. And I ride in the rain. So discs are the best solution for me.

@BennyOcean 10 ай бұрын

I'll add one: if you're a heavy rider they are beneficial. I'm over 200 lbs and for someone my size I feel like the disc brakes make a difference. Hills, rain or heavy rider: go disc. If it's flat, dry and the rider is lightweight, rim brakes might be the better solution.

@roadcyclist1 10 ай бұрын

@@BennyOceanrim brakes are never the better solution. They are inferior in every way.

@utube7930 10 ай бұрын

I ride up steep hills in the rain, so rim brakes are the best solution for me 🤠

@BrianRPaterson 10 ай бұрын

@@utube7930 Me too. I just don't need the brakes much on the way up. Going down is a different story. Then I'll take all the stopping power I can get!

@stevenmeyer9674 9 ай бұрын

@@utube7930 If you need brakes riding up hill, you must be one fast MFer

@tbp0701 10 ай бұрын

I've had two recent instances of e-bike riders pulling in front of me, and I was glad I had discs. With the last one, an elderly lady realized what she'd done, lost balance, and went over in some bushes. She apologized after I helped her up.

@mathewrose2951 10 ай бұрын

I got a frame from the last run of rim brake Bianchi Oltre XR4's a couple of years ago. This was a budget/environmental impact choice because I got a good deal on the frame and I would be able to reuse all of my Dura-Ace 9150 groupset, carbon rims included, and did not require buying all of that again in order to get the bike that I wanted at a lower price point. Also, as I was living where it never rained and they'd just opened the world's longest continuous closed cycle track, the benefits of disc could wait for another year. While I could get a new disc bike if I wanted one, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to pick up this year's Factor O2 in another five or six years for a good bit less as a second hand bike.

@draugmithrin 9 ай бұрын

I've stuck with rim brakes, alloy wheels and frame. Affordable, durable and easy to maintain. Discs make sense with wider tyres off-road but I still like 25mm tyres on my road bike. Being able to get the wheels off and on quickly and easily for cleaning or transport is a big plus.

@DanielaAngulo Ай бұрын

What alloy wheels do you recommend? Thanks

@draugmithrin Ай бұрын

@@DanielaAngulo I got several pairs of Fulcrum Racing 900 's on clearance sale. Strong, stay true, easy to change bearings on and easy to regrease freehub pawls.

@post_historic 10 ай бұрын

Got rid of brakes altogether over a decade ago... and the derailleurs... shifters... brake levers... and freewheel...

@paulschmidtke425 4 ай бұрын

Yeah but some riders like to ride fast

@post_historic 4 ай бұрын

@@paulschmidtke425 Trying to figure out if this is an insult, and why.

@paulschmidtke425 4 ай бұрын

@@post_historic probably is a bit , don't know why really, sorry,

@littlegoobie 13 күн бұрын

@@paulschmidtke425 he' could be riding as fast as a track/crit rider. I believe he's referring to making the switch to a fixie over a decade ago... brakes with the crank and his legs.

@ryanw8987 10 ай бұрын

Pretty much the same. For my racier, aero, dry-weather bike the rim brakes work just fine (also have direct-mount brakes so that helps as well over traditional calipers). But for my gravel/commute/adventure bike, discs make way more sense. I used to have to be meticulous in cleaning off the brake tracks nearly every day on previous commuter bikes during the winter because the road gunk would cause the brakes to grind them down so quickly. Since they're higher up from the road, disc rotors take a lot longer to get as dirty and are way cheaper/easier to replace than rims when needed.

@radzia1010 4 ай бұрын

For commuter only roller brake the best.

@CRBenham20 10 ай бұрын

as an amateur cat 3 level racer who mainly does criterium and cylcross, I have a mixed feeling. i got a relatively cheap specialized allez 6 or 7 years ago that had 9 speed shimano with rim brakes. ive upgraded that to 11 speed 105 now but im still able to race just fine on my rim brake setup in criteriums and cant justify going out and spending thousands on a new bike at the moment. for cyclocross on the other hand, i race on a specialized crux with canty brakes... and this is where i wish i had spent a little more money and found a second hand bike with discs brakes instead. any time it gets wet (which is typical CX conditions) i basically dont have brakes anymore... and could definitely see them as an advantage to be had in this discipline. bottom line is it 100% depends on the terrain and conditions that you ride in, and most bikes (rim or disc) are far more capable than the average riders ability level anyway.

@paulkerr3253 10 ай бұрын

Another thing I like about disc brakes is being able to use my nice wheels all the time, on my rim brake bike I only used carbon wheels for racing to make them last longer, which kind of negated any day to day weight saving

@The2808erik 10 ай бұрын

The rim brake bike is still going to be lighter with alloy wheels 😂

@paulkerr3253 10 ай бұрын

@@The2808erik not with the alloy wheels I was using haha

@liamcook6950 10 ай бұрын

8 years into my carbon rim brake wheels, still going strong. I race them and they have had about 75 days of French Alpe riding in them and where I live there are very steep descents, access of 25%

@darekm.7769 10 ай бұрын

I live and ride in the french alpes. my rim brake carbon wheels have over 17000km and still plenty of life in them...

@maranatha3333 8 ай бұрын

@@liamcook6950 and @darekm.7769 Let me guess, do you weigh less than 160 pounds? Heavier riders wear out brakes faster.

@jpoodle 10 ай бұрын

I just transitioned to Disc and so far I like it. Rode in the rain without needing to worry about not stopping like I would with calipers lol, although they did make noise in the rain. I kind of miss my skewers as the wheel changes are indeed slower, for a pro, which I am not. Definitely heavier but less fuss for me. I’m happy.

@daniboi4067 10 ай бұрын

HAHA

@Thezuule1 10 ай бұрын

When I'm riding in the rain I don't worry about stopping either because I'm pedaling my ass off to get home and out of the rain. 🤪

@radiocontrolled9181 10 ай бұрын

@@Thezuule1You'll worry about stopping when some idiot suddenly reverses out of a driveway in front of you or when someone coming out of a side street fails to stop and check traffic.

@GoodToCU88 9 ай бұрын

Why would anyone want to ride in the rain? 😭It's horrible and cold..

@Silidons91 9 ай бұрын

If you ride a lot, it's kinda annoying to have discs. They *will* warp, and then you have to mess with them to have them stop rubbing. Then when you take off your wheel to swap tires....somehow it rubs again....

@aminostruth3494 10 ай бұрын

Thanks Phil, always incisive. Disc breaks are great...until something goes wrong with them! I have both disc and rim on my bikes and understand the pros/cons of both type but I can service my rim breaks quickly, easily and cheaply unlike discs which can be a royal effin pain in the arse at times!

@Potz4pizza 10 ай бұрын

What makes them a pain? Been riding disc brakes mtbing and bikepacking for 7 years… never a pain.

@br5380 10 ай бұрын

sounds like you just need to learn how to look after & service disc brakes, a bit like you did with rim brakes...

@aminostruth3494 10 ай бұрын

@@br5380 ooh meow!

@aminostruth3494 10 ай бұрын

@@Potz4pizza loss of pressure in system, rubbing pads, bent rotors and the process of bleeding can be a faff.

@roadcyclist1 10 ай бұрын

@@aminostruth3494those are very rare issues that you should have to deal with. Also, none of them close to ruining your rims with those garbage rim brakes. Not to mention they have pathetic stopping power. Yawn..

@ChrisPoepping 10 ай бұрын

Until I have to, I will continue to ride my rim brake. The price of a new bicycle is crazy and I work in the industry.

@d1nicoya 10 ай бұрын

100%

@Gsp_in_NYC 10 ай бұрын

I remember ...late 80s...as a teenager in Europe...somehow had managed to avoid being caught in mad rains or this one hit at the wrong time...hit my rim brakes on my nice OLMO Italian racing steed and I go straight into the side of a car turning right..didn't slow down at all. lol...ok, check..gotta work those brakes if I want to actually stop when it rains. !

@nordmu 10 ай бұрын

really good take thank you for the insights!

@TheFloridaBikeVlogger 10 ай бұрын

RIM BRAKE CARTEL!!! always!!

@xevious4142 10 ай бұрын

Big thing on the gravel side that's starting to trickle into road is the bigger tires discs let you run

@Thomas-fy9yc 8 ай бұрын

Currently have both…I like the disc for the larger tire volume and ability to have lightweight aero wheels, but the rim brakes sure were nice for ease of maintenance.

@robertwaldren6206 10 ай бұрын

Next question for Phil: How do so many pros still drop their chains during races? With pro mechanics, electronic shifting, and (theoretically) skilled riders, why is this still a thing?

@thehandleiwantedwasntavailable 10 ай бұрын

Think of how carefully you go from big to small to avoid a drop. I imagine that care is not always there in a racing environment.

@Foster_B 10 ай бұрын

Well pros still ride sram so...

@czeckson74 9 ай бұрын

@@Foster_BYes, and the win all 3 Grand Tours

@Foster_B 9 ай бұрын

@@czeckson74 yes, and I’m sure Roglic dropping his chain on the final giro tt helped him win

@PePethePedalPusher 5 ай бұрын

@@thehandleiwantedwasntavailable Yeah, as a racer who was putting out not shabby watts, shifting under duress, riding ultegra, the stuff just always works because my job is as a mechanic. Something is silly in the team garages some days, lmao

@rascal1234 10 ай бұрын

I tried these cork/rubber compound for the rim pads. They work almost as well as disk, but not quite.

@81caasi 10 ай бұрын

yep the cork/rubber compound rim pads work very well on carbon.

@jeffs5519 10 ай бұрын

Rim for road, disc for gravel and mtb. After 5 years of maintaining disc and ensuring no disc rub, rim brakes are SO much easier. Especially if travel has me removing the front wheel.

@mikekeenan8450 4 ай бұрын

I come from a rather different perspective here. I am a commuter, and this winter I'm commuting mostly on a single speed utility bike with a coaster brake. Essentially zero maintenance, and like a disc brake it is not bothered by weather. Plus my handlebars are unencumbered by brake levers or shifters. Of course I live in a very flat place (Winnipeg, MB); if I lived in Vancouver or San Francisco a coaster brake might not be enough (and a single speed definitely would not be).

@beeble2003 3 ай бұрын

Check local laws. Most jurisdictions require a brake on each wheel. Even if the law doesn't demand it, the front brake does 60+% of the braking so riding without one is massively increasing your stopping distance. Also, redundancy -- in the unlikely event that your coaster brake fails, you ain't stoppin'. In the much more likely event that your rear tyre punctures, the steel rim gives very little braking action against the road.

@alexp247365 10 ай бұрын

Cane Creek EE Rim Brakes with Jagwire elite aluminum housing (compressionless) = heaven

@thehandleiwantedwasntavailable 10 ай бұрын

Was riding two bikes for a period; one disc, one rim. I found braking performance pretty marginally different, even in wet conditions. However, I love the modulation of hydraulic braking - which is what my disc brakes have. That alone is why I now ride hydraulic disc on both bikes.

@alinprema 8 ай бұрын

Yes, it's a nice feeling just pulling the lever slightly and feeling your bike is breaking. It gives you a confidence you cannot get from the rim brakes.

@krisjones74 4 ай бұрын

Rim brakes give me more than enough brakes, but the added clearance for wider tires on modern disc brake road bikes is a game changer.

@johnandmarie7250 10 ай бұрын

Love discs on my CX/gravel and MTBs. I’m impressed with the braking on my mid-range carbon rims with the supplied pads on my older roadie. They both have a lot of miles left in them. But next roadie hell yes disc.

@dcv9460 10 ай бұрын

Disc brake or rim brake? - Use what makes you happy. END OF CONVERSATION 😎

@joerenner8334 10 ай бұрын

Use what your bike came with. And if you are buying a new bike. Buy the disc brake model. Mine is used. It has suck ass rim brakes. Oh well

@larrywhite8590 10 ай бұрын

If you ride in a group ride what they do. Beyond that whatever works. But, discs are simply better, this is not a debate.

@jamesmoros1274 10 ай бұрын

@@BufordDuckworthrim brakes will always be available 😊 women’s pro teams use them. Eventually they’ll come around again as other manufacturers will pick up the market at the end not everyone wants or can afford a $20k bike for the weekend 😂 cheers from Oz🇦🇺

@thomascoder9839 10 ай бұрын

That’s the problem.. there’s no choice anymore. All the manufactures have moved pretty much to exclusively disc. The only way you can ride a new rim bike is buying second hand (always a bit sketchy) or emptying your wallet and an going with an Italian brand.

@blinzi69 9 ай бұрын

rim for me - easier to maintain, good weather only rider, I am very light (70kg) and I like a light bike, I do not descent very fast.

@mixedmeter 10 ай бұрын

I love disc brakes...on my mountain and gravel bikes. I still feel that on my road bike, its overkill. Sure, it’s great in the rain going down a mountain, but that’s about it. Disc brake bikes are heavier and there always seems to be some sort of issue with the discs. Like slight rubbing, not working correctly, etc. And the ability to adjust on the fly like rim brakes is now gone. I also think the first few years when the pros had discs that was the reason for the increase in pack crashes. Disc brakes are grabbier, thus causing wheel overlaps in the pack. I have not seen an actual study on this phenomenon, but I am willing to bet it was an issue.

@markmonroe7330 10 ай бұрын

I have both rim/disc on multiple bikes. I like them both and am thankful for options. That said, my fast lightweight racing road bike has rim brakes and they are awesome. I also run 23 tires on it. So old school. I wouldn't change a thing on that bike.

@domestique3954 10 ай бұрын

So am i - disc brakes on the CX Bike and rim brakes on the light race bike🤙

@spdaltid 10 ай бұрын

Me too. 😅Although I'm not such a flat-earther - I've got 25's on my lightweight bike

@johndavid3474 2 ай бұрын

You bring up a good point riding in traffic with rim brakes has its disadvantages especially when cars stop suddenly. I remember the time I was pedalling downhill at about 70 km/h glanced down at my derailleur because it was jumping when I looked up again The car about 50m in front of me suddenly stopped. I couldn’t slow down fast enough, my only choice was to try to get between the parked car and the stopped vehicle which ended with my right hand and handlebars wiping out his side vision mirror

@stevenqirkle 10 ай бұрын

My first year on disc brakes they were causing me all sorts of problems, and I was pretty unhappy with them. I think I’ve most figured out how to keep them running quietly (except in the rain) and braking smoothly now, and couldn’t really imagine myself buying another bike with rim brakes. My backup bike still has rim brakes and descending on it kind of feels terrifying now.

@shred3005 10 ай бұрын

I had lots of noise trouble too with Ultegra 8000 disc for a long too. If I had to break heavily down a hill straight after I’d get the Ching, Ching, Ching, Ching noise for a while. I tried various recommended methods to get the pads seated and spread evenly but unwanted noise would come and go. In the end the best fix was I got a Park pad spreading tool to push the calipers back in a bit and that’s worked best. Have to repeat from time to time. Now my main issue is when I switch between road wheels and gravel wheels on my gravel bike. Different wheels with the same type of disc but clearly do not exactly line up so I have to release the bolts on the calipers and re-centre. So annoying and harder to do than when I’m changing between training wheels and race day deep carbon wheels on my road bike with rim breaks. This is when rim breaks are must less hassle. And you never have bleed rim breaks :)

@stevenqirkle 10 ай бұрын

@@shred3005 yup a major source of trouble for me was that the pistons were not protruding evenly - one side was sticking a bit. I followed a video on KZfaq to clean and lubricate the piston (using brake fluid), and then pushed both pistons all the way back using the park tool spreading tool, and repeated the alignment process. That made a big difference for the frequent noise issues I was getting. The other issue is that I was probably cleaning the rotors too frequently with rubbing alcohol - thinking contamination was behind the noise issues. But now I mostly just wipe the rotors with a clean towel after hosing off my bike. And if I do need to clean them with alcohol, I make sure to repeat the bed in procedure (10 hard stops from 20kph or so). And the last thing was just learning how to do alignment properly. I try to avoid even removing and reseating my wheels when possible as it seems like that can throw off alignment a bit, so I can definitely see how changing to a different wheel would make a big difference. So definitely more finicky than rim brakes. And I hate doing maintenance on my bike. But still worth it IMO for being able to run fatter tires and improved braking.

@derekjolly3680 10 ай бұрын

I wouldn't want to be on a big downhill run (with rim brakes) that goes to either a dead end or some massively narrowed hard turn, but on the ones I have around where I live, they bottom out with time to slow down gradually (except one) on a flat or simply start rising again. The main thing for me is anticipating the clueless walkers, drivers, or bikers when I'm doing 35 MPH or more down the hill.

@Montrealcycling 10 ай бұрын

SOFT

@teknonmy7210 10 ай бұрын

@@stevenqirkle I've also had pinging noise issues. Pushing the pistons back in only sort of fixes the problem, what you need is to take the wheel out, put in something the width of the disc while holding down the brake, spray brake cleaner and rub around the pads with a brush.

@dobbscycleworks 8 ай бұрын

Absolutely dead on and something I try to say myself when asked the question. For me and my use, my old tarmac with Ultegra R8000 rim works amazingly well. I do want to get a disc brake bike for certain things and am in the market but I will need money before I do that lol.

@kevinhodgson2085 4 ай бұрын

I'll give you a great example of marketing. I like in the north of England where we have huge amounts of rain and very steep hills. About 15 years ago, when disc brakes were already well established on MTBs, I was hassling manufacturers as to why they weren't fitting disc mounts to touring bike frames & forks and also why there weren't any hydraulic drop bar brakes. The response I got from UK manufacturers was "there's no demand for disc brakes on dropped bar bikes". I got this reply several times from different manufacturers. Now, you are looked at crazy for NOT having disc brakes. So obviously that demand definitely WAS there. And back then I was talking about bikes used in wet dirty conditions, not roads bikes used on smooth dry roads. So the industry decides what you are supposed to ride, not the customers.

@probikeguy 4 ай бұрын

Why we started using disk cx frames as road frames a decade ago. So we could have disks on the road.

@beeble2003 3 ай бұрын

Your argument doesn't make sense. High demand today does not prove that demand was high 15 years ago.

@golfnerd3107 10 ай бұрын

There is no problem with my rim brakes that I can’t diagnose and fix in under a minute. Disk brakes are fine until something goes wrong. Then I hope you have deep pockets or saintly patience.

@denniswood5062 9 ай бұрын

Exactly my take.

@2011hwalker 8 ай бұрын

1000% disc brakes are horrific when the pads refuse to retract

@szaka9395 2 ай бұрын

Its the tire and not locking it what stops you. You can easly lock the wheel with both brakes. I like rim more. People who tell me they can modulate braking power better on 10 cm disc instead of 90 cm rim can suck my ...

@brockjennings 10 ай бұрын

I ride both brake systems. Disc in groups and rim riding solo with climbs. As a recovering weight weenie, it's cheaper to maintain my rim brake frame than invest in a disc brake bike that will compete with it on the scales.

@beeble2003 3 ай бұрын

Yeah, being a disc-braked weight weenie must be super-expensive.

@rcostheta 10 ай бұрын

Pretty easy to ride rim brakes when I can't afford to upgrade to a similarly nice bike.

@mathewemden2068 10 ай бұрын

I still have rim, and they are fine for the riding that I do. I do ride down big hills but I'm not pushing my bike to the limits like some. I don't have anything against disc breaks, I just haven't needed to replace my bike yet. When I do, it'll have disc breaks I'm sure, and I will not have any problems with them. They are a better breaking system. But for my capabilities my rim breaks are sufficient for me to ride safely. The only caveat, is carbon wheels and rim breaks in wet conditions are horrible! So I avoid riding that setup in wet conditions. If I do get caught in wet conditions, I am very cautious.

@axelmogr 10 ай бұрын

Rim brake for road, discs for gravel & mtb Only way

@derekjolly3680 10 ай бұрын

Just getting back into road biking after six years of disk brakes on my Marin hybrid, they've taken a little reacquainting from having them on the old road bike I rode as a teenager (plus and minus of that) centered around 1980. The thing is the rim brakes reflect the older school style of my older type design bike, which is made by State Bicycle Company, who've tended to fixed gear models. At this point under the circumstances, having not often been in close traffic situations, they seem decent enough for me, and I appreciate the simplicity and even the elegance of them. Planning ahead is a factor, but I do do that. The fact is that while I won't altogether shut down cycling this winter, I will transition to my Marin and my e-bike for utility riding all the way, and for any pure exercise rides all the way. They've got disk brakes and larger tires and make more sense for any rain or snow bits I run across.

@joenevins 24 күн бұрын

Had 0 issues with rim breaks on my aluminum wheels. As soon as i switched to carbon, I lost all confidence in my braking, which really affects my riding now and makes me fearful of most descents

@Symbioticism 10 ай бұрын

Rim is a pretty simple technology, so it has that going for it, but it is clear that if your goal is to stop fast, disc is better.

@NewEnglandDirtRoadie 4 ай бұрын

NEXT TOPIC: handlebar bags on $10,000 aero bikes

@Mesofs9 10 ай бұрын

disc brakes on TT bikes, that is the biggest nonsense ever!

@evanedwards2501 10 ай бұрын

No one ever talks about the fact that disc brake bikes mean your wheelsets can last a lifetime. I was lucky enough to pick up a pair of Campag Bora Ultra WTOs for free from my old job in the industry. I could never afford to replace them, and knowing that there's no brake track to wear out and thin down means it's a wheelset that'll last decades. Discs are awesome for that.

@96golfcl 10 ай бұрын

While technically true, the argument doesn't really hold long term in terms of price spent on disc pads and rotors. Have you seen current prices? Pads can run $40-60 and rotors can be $60-120, and that's just one side! Full rehaul can easily cost $300 for not even the top level gear. By the way, have you ever actually worn through rim brake surface? Im still using the original wheels on my 1996 Trek 5200 OCLV. Top shelf Swissstop rim pads are $70 and can last 5k-10k kms. I didn't even mention price of brake fluid or shop time if you can't do it yourself. Just need a 5mm allan key and 5 mins to swap rim pads. So yeah, wheels "can" last a lifetime but you'll be paying an arm and a leg for it long term

@Gianniz27 9 ай бұрын

@@96golfcl Rims can last easily 50.000KM or more.

@billeterk 9 ай бұрын

@@Gianniz27that’s 5 years for me. 18 months for one of my friends though.

@yukiko_5051 6 ай бұрын

You said this until said wheelset's spokes decide to explode after a hard braking, causing the whole wheel to become untrue and unsafe to ride

@beeble2003 3 ай бұрын

@@96golfcl"By the way, have you ever actually worn through rim brake surface?" Yes, multiple times. The roads around here seem to be perpetually damp and covered in fine sand, so I was wearing out rim-brake wheels in about three years / 20000km.

@garyp.7501 4 ай бұрын

I have rim brakes on my commuter. And in Seattle with the rain and grit I ended up replacing my rims twice a year as I wore through the metal. For that I envied those with disk brakes. Now that I am in San Diego with excellent weather, I have yet to rebuild a wheel.

@willjones7132 6 ай бұрын

First time I rode disks riding aggressive mtb I never wanted to deal with rim brakes again for that situation. Now I want a road bike with disks, cause I ride hills sometimes and the pads for carbon rims wear fast, and the pads for aluminum rims wear even faster and make a huge mess if they get wet during a descent, plus either way rim brakes wear your rims.

@mediumrick7667 10 ай бұрын

I have bikes with rim brakes and bikes with discs. They all work great. Not worth arguing about.

@ashcameron7677 9 ай бұрын

I think top end disc brake bikes have finally caught up with rim. But the lower priced ones are clunky compared with what you get with Rim in previous years.

@datadrivendave 10 ай бұрын

The way they use a power screwdriver to undo the thru axle makes it fairly quick in races as well. But if everyone adopted speed release, it would be no slower than quick release.

@michaelnewman4302 2 ай бұрын

Disk brakes allow for the design of wheels and frames that can accommodate tire widths that aren't compatible with rim brake calipers. Even if disk brakes weren't better at, you know...*braking* (and they are) they'd still be a significant advancement for both competitive athletes and recreational riders. Because of disk brakes, bikes are less fatiguing to ride, maintain better traction, experience lower rolling resistance, etc.

@karsten4689 10 ай бұрын

… disc for dirt & rim for road 😂

@choof_worm 10 ай бұрын

I like the idea of thru axels over quick release skewers get my first disc bike in a few weeks very excjted

@sirflappington2484 23 күн бұрын

I'd say the biggest advantage of disk brakes is that you can fit hydraulic calipers to it. Hydraulic calipers are stronger but more importantly, they're a lot easier to squeeze so your arms and fingers don't get tired on long descents

@13opacus 4 ай бұрын

I can’t believe this is still a thing, just use what you want, it doesn’t really matter. They both work!

@mythical7thgear 4 ай бұрын

Not denying the performance aspect but many have been priced out. Barrier for entry and the cost of maintenance.

@lsc5403 10 ай бұрын

Only time I feel I want disc brakes is when descending mountains. The irony is I don’t want them going up. Or Crit/road racing. So they’re pointless for me.

@dwaynepedals 10 ай бұрын

Agree! I'm still on rim brake road and disc gravel bike.

@TheCrossx6 Ай бұрын

when I press my v brakes about 80% they lock my wheels, with squeeze power to spare. How can you brake any better than that? What do the dics brakes have abs?

@FallNorth 3 ай бұрын

I prefer cables for ease of adjustment etc so on my disk brake bike I have Spyre cable pull disk brakes that I've been happy with, when I got them they seemed about as good as they can be for that. No centring issues or rubs and I'm happy with the stopping power. Just the other day I another old v brake bike out that have had a fair bit of wear on the pads, nice spring day .. It was fine going up this steep hill .. then I went through a deep muddy puddle near top .. coming down I had a very scary moment at a junction and used a foot to properly stop for first time since I was a kid. Don't skip adjusting when the sun calls with its sunny siren song!!! :)

@JZTNDL 10 ай бұрын

Can rim brakes accomodate 32c tyres? Really need a wide tyre cus our roads are shit

@hugejackedman1951 8 ай бұрын

yes they can, but as tires get wider (i sometimes run 42c knobbies) you should look into cantilever brakes or disc brakes. i tour and commute, so cantilever is for me. they are a cinch for me to work on but they are so dependable that i never touch them until it's time to replace the pads. most importantly they easily stop my loaded bike, rain or shine

@kevinbourke4038 4 ай бұрын

You need a motorcycle, not a bicycle

@JZTNDL 4 ай бұрын

@@kevinbourke4038 ok koya

@hanswuat1245 10 ай бұрын

its marketing. nothing more. rim for road, disc for dirt. so easy. maintaine/cost wise for sure and who think as a normal casual weekend warrior he is faster up + down should check his strava profil segments in reflexion with his training status in that time from rim and disc and he has the answer easly

@keithcottongim7930 9 ай бұрын

I switched to road disc. They been great!

@LESLIELEON99 10 ай бұрын

Good luck. See you Sunday at the Climb Mt Baker Race.

@SyLens1 10 ай бұрын

Recently went from a trek emonda sl5 disc to a emonda alr with rim brakes. I love it so much its by far easier to live with

@becyk_du_quebec 10 ай бұрын

Can't wait for the orucase review 👀👀

@taylourunzicker2776 10 ай бұрын

Phil, we could really use your breakdowns for La Vuelta. I know it's a lot, but I'd love to see you have videos during all three Grand Tours.

@adamsouthard1155 10 ай бұрын

When I lived in Oregon I ditched my rim brake bike for discs way back in 2015 because I was frequently riding down steep, twisty hills in the rain and had one extremely memorable event in which I had both brakes squeezed almost back to the handlebars and was still managing to accelerate. I did make it to the bottom without crashing but I bought a rim brake bike the next week. Now I live in Savannah which is very flat but I still prefer disc brakes. Here I prefer them because we have horrible roads and I can run larger diameter rim widths and wider tires with rim brakes. So they're significantly more comfortable. Rim brakes would work absolutely fine riding here but in most circumstances discs are just more versatile. You get better performance AND comfort.

@BrianRPaterson 9 ай бұрын

Spot on. It's happened to me - pouring rain, steep descent and rim brake levers pulled tight to the bars. You barely slow down. I'll take discs for those conditions. Cheers

@Hebbs 10 ай бұрын

I like stopping

@eleycki 10 ай бұрын

Brakes are good

@paulschmidtke425 10 ай бұрын

Disc brakes make wheels immortal , if there's anyone else out there who's financially challenged

@MrHcharles 10 ай бұрын

How much do you spend on rotors and pads?

@lukewalker1051 10 ай бұрын

@@MrHcharles or the hydraulic calipers?

@paulschmidtke425 10 ай бұрын

@@MrHcharles are you serious, heaps cheaper than worn out rims and total wheel rebuild

@paulschmidtke425 10 ай бұрын

@@lukewalker1051 mechanical discs is what I use avid bb7 brilliant brake match anything hydro , don't have to worry about my $2000 wheels being worn out to useless and dangerous by calipers ,

@paulschmidtke425 10 ай бұрын

@@MrHcharles also rotors can be had for as little as $12 new and I use metal pads so quite long lasting

@WildBCPhoto 4 ай бұрын

Thanks, Phil. I've been saying for years that it's not the Pros who need disc brakes, it's lesser mortals like us who can't replace our wheels on a regular basis and, as you say, have other, unpredictable, road users to contend with.

@worstretirementever 4 ай бұрын

if we all had closed roads, rim brakes forever

@KY-pk2rd 10 ай бұрын

Apart from braking performance, I would like to share my opinion on bike comfort perspective over rim vs. disc. Back to old days, where steel frame was the default racing machine, people used to ride super skinny tire (23 mm by default and sometimes down up to 20 mm) and rim width of 18 mm and high air pressure (120 + psi), the steel frame itself absorbs the shock pretty well. As carbon fiber comes to play, especially in recent years, frames are made much more stiffer (my feeling is that its getting closer to aluminum in terms of stiffness), riders tend to choose wider tire and wider rim to compensate the shock and cross wind. And as you knows, rim brake can perform up to 25 mm (28 mm for R9100 as advertised but barely fit), but when it comes to disc, there is no such limit. So as wider tire and rim are the trend, disc shows it's huge advantage. I still love my rim brake 1984 colnago master steel bike, but also love the lastest super stiff disc brake wide rim and tire road bike. Both feel great.

@northernjimbo 10 ай бұрын

I am sure every manufacturer could produce a rim brake for 40mm tyres if they wanted to, it’s just currently they were all designed around skinnier rims.

@kawabus 10 ай бұрын

Phil has spoken, this is the way 🚴✨✨

@AegisPupus 10 ай бұрын

The breaks at the rim have better leverage. it takes less friction on the rim for the pads to effect breaking power. The closer you get to the middle of the wheel the less effective you get at breaking... There is more material passing through the pads at the rim to dissipate the heat. The closer you get to the middle of the wheel the more heat per mass. So more force and more specialized material are required for Disk breaks. Frankly I'm convinced they invented those bike disk breaks just so the companies have their product visible in a race. On cars, they make more sense, since they win the leverage argument compared to barrel breaks.

@leo-wi4qu 2 ай бұрын

this and only this..

@francoisthomas4930 10 ай бұрын

How is changing a disk brake wheel longer than for a rim brake wheel? You dont even have to open the calipers to release the rim and tire

@thorpejsf 4 ай бұрын

You have to deal with that silly thru-axle for starters.

@beeble2003 3 ай бұрын

Thru-axle is much slower to take out than a quick release skewer. You have to precisely align the wheel as you're putting it in, as you need to get the brake rotor into the tiny gap between the calipers. In contrast, for a rim-brake wheen, you can just whack it in, because the profile of the tyre basically guides the wheel into place by bouncing off the brake pads.

@tonysadler5290 5 ай бұрын

Absolute sence, well said. Regards Tony Sadler South Wales UK 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

@ericpiche2999 10 ай бұрын

God, when carbon wheels sets came out in the mid aughts the braking was terrible, they were also mostly crap but thats another story (the first iteration of Zipp 404s was terrible). With disc brakes you dont have to worry about braking in a wet descent with carbon wheels, big safety enhancement

@IainBakerplus 10 ай бұрын

We shouldn't even be debating whether rim is better than disc - it's not even the point. Both are braking systems which function perfectly well. The real benefit of disc brakes isn't even actually to do with braking, it's purely about the wheels. Disc systems have allowed for wider rims, more aero benefits, proper tubeless setup, lower tyre pressures and better comfort and rolling resistance. If I could get all of that, with rim brakes, I'd ride rim brakes.

@jaybobd 10 ай бұрын

The only thing I miss about rim brakes is knowing immediately if my wheel is out of true. Otherwise it's disc all the way. And they've required little to no maintenance for the years and miles I've been riding them on them the road.

@joewickie2376 4 ай бұрын

I ride in the Pacific northwest, it's wet and muddy. Rim brakes eat a wheel in about 2 years of 3 times a week riding. It can get expensive.

@beeble2003 3 ай бұрын

Same in my part of England. Now I've been riding discs for two weeks and never had to replace a wheel! 😉

@JP41257 10 ай бұрын

Rim brakes for me. No muss, no fuss. Easy to maintain and service. They get the job done for any kind of riding I'm ever going to be doing. For me, particularly if I were riding on sketchy roads in heavy LA traffic, I'd invest my money in a good set of high visibility lights (front & back) and a good rear-view mirror to monitor traffic coming up behind me. See and be seen. 👍

@sethmccann7770 5 ай бұрын

I like my rim brakes. I guess I appreciate the maintenance factor. Although honestly it’s mostly a lack of maintenance since they just work. Mostly though, I just like the look

@Circletakesthejake 10 ай бұрын

Well said.

@WhaJMc 4 ай бұрын

I have both rim and disc brake road bikes. The good thing about my rim brake bike is that it cost less than my cycle computer. The bad things are I'm limited to to 25c or less tyres and I need more than one finger to brake with. The only bad thing about my disc brake bike is that it cost more than my first 3 cars.

@noway4523 4 ай бұрын

rim brakes use up the rim over time discs tend to withstand longer and are an easier swap (as a single part)

@ClassicCyclingCC 10 ай бұрын

Disc brakes all the way for me! More powerful, more progressive, better when wet, easier to replace wheel, and looks cool.

@rockhopper01 10 ай бұрын

Easier to replace wheel? Sure, with an impact wrench. Have you seen how long it takes PRO mechanics to change a wheel in the pro peloton? There’s a reason why they normally just change the whole bike.

@norconster 10 ай бұрын

I’ve always had issues riding with rim brakes on my old bike (maybe a poor setup?). It was always a struggle to slow down without locking the rear tire. It wouldn’t lock in the rain but it took even longer to slow down even at max brake pressure. And, they would squeak horribly after 30min-1hour of riding (in wet or dry). With my new bike (road bike with disc brakes), when I used the brakes for the first time (like slamming the brakes), I almost went over the bars because I wasn’t expecting it to slow down so quickly, and it didn’t lock up so it was easy to regain control. The only time I’ve gotten it to lock was when someone stepped out in front of me on a dirt/gravel trail, and despite the lockup, I was able to slightly release the rear brake to regain traction and slowed down enough to maneuver around the person that walked in front of me. Because it is very difficult to lockup the brakes on my new bike, I’ve had much more confidence riding in the rain. I have just about the same braking performance in the wet as in the dry which gives me one less thing to worry about riding in the wet. I am of course not a bike professional, I’ve only gotten into the cycling scene about a year ago and have only had 2 bikes (an old mountain bike with rim brakes and a newer road bike with disc brakes), this is really just my experiences with each brake type. Sorry for the short essay in the comments lol

@2552legoboy 10 ай бұрын

I would say if you can’t lock your brakes on a brand new disc bike, they arnt very strong. I’ve seen disc mountain bikes with built in ABS to stop locking. Don’t get me wrong, it’s good yours don’t lock in the rain, but are you missing out on performance?

@norconster 10 ай бұрын

@@2552legoboy I might be losing a little performance but that's fine for now as I'm not really racing (I'm focusing more on training). I might look into in more when I'm racing more and need every bit of performance from my bike. Appreciate the info.

@scheinheilig1 10 ай бұрын

As a heavier rider (~200lbs) I'm so happy with my discs. Rim brakes were always a nightmare on long steep descents.

@___Bebo___ 8 ай бұрын

Any data on disc brakes stopping 5 feet sooner? A perfectly modulated stop is a perfectly modulated stop, IMO. You can lock up the wheel and skid with either system which isn't ideal.

@OnyxTortoise 9 ай бұрын

I just wish that the industry offered both solutions and continued to mature rim brake wheels and frames. My perfect fantasy groupset would be: shimano, fully wireless, 11-speed, direct mount rim brake

@wturber 8 ай бұрын

I run disk brakes on my fairly heavy home-brew e-bike. I run rim brakes on my road bike. But then, I'm not doing 25 mph nearly as often and especially not around traffic with my road bike. I like simplicity so long as it is sufficiently functional. One reason I don't run electronic shifting either. Marginal gains usually matter most when racing - and I don't race.

@mikeburton8426 10 ай бұрын

Since there is no real “answer” it’s just fun to hear what people have to say. But Damn, those jukebox socks are nice. Wish somebody would do a definitive you tube video on the correct sock height 😂

@warchalify 10 ай бұрын

Finally someone who put some sense on this debate.

@fpgamemearray 10 ай бұрын

i would say ride whatever works for you. As a student, i don't have the budget for a nice hydraulic disc bike and i strongly prefer rim brakes over mechanical discs because the latter has the worst of both worlds. You can still buy a new rim brake bike for about the same money as a new mechanical disc bike, but it would cost you less hassle and money in the long run as in my experience cheap rotors and pads wear much quicker than cheap rim pads and aluminium rims. mechanical discs may stop better in the rain, but i didn't feel like rim brakes were ineffective at all in the same conditions.