Johnny, thank you! I learned a ton making this with you. It's amazing how clear things can get when you talk them out with a friend. You and Iz have been so supportive since I went independent (and before!) and I can't wait to keep making things together. Maybe next time I’ll have you on my channel :)

Glad she brought up the "how about public transit". Cars and the infrastructure aren't inherently the problem but, here in the US, our infrastructure has all but abandoned public transit and built entirely around cars

Only in America can you be called “pie in the sky” for suggesting that you should invest in public transport 🙄🙄🙄

Johnny and Cleo should do a whole series/podcast together. I love Johnny’s maps and catastrophic outlook on the direction of the world and I love Cleo’s ability to reel that back in and offer solutions. A perfect pairing!

I’m Chinese once worked in Africa on mining for years. One thing I want to clarify is that we won’t hire or force any children to do the mining job. We have plenty of mining equipment why hire children to do it?

You should do another video on how America became so car-centric in the first place. Massive lobbying led to an America where car travel is literally the only way to get round, and massive lobbying is still going on to keep it that way. While (like Cleo said) investing in public transport and better civil planning is objectively the better way to go.

Most batteries made for EV's in China right now don't have cobalt, they're lithium iron phosphate batteries.

I'M NEW TO BTC AND I'VE BEEN MAKING LOSSES TRYING TO MAKE PROFIT MYSELF IN TRADING...I THOUGHT TRADING ON DEMO ACCOUNT IS JUST LIKE TRADING THE REAL MARKET... CAN ANYONE HELP ME OUT OR AT LEAST ADVICE ME ON WHAT TO DO?

As someone who lives in the car capital of the world it’s really hard to explain how much public transit is a solution that is overlooked and under funded as a solution that doesn’t involve getting Chinese control or mining finite resources

YES on Cleo's last point. Places like Amsterdam and Tokyo are designed in such a way where you don't even need a car. You can get everywhere you need to go via public transport, bike, or on foot. No problematic new technology needed, just smart, thoughtful design. Shoutout to Not Just Bikes and Strong Towns for increasing awareness of good design.

"A cleaner future is a cleaner future, just with problems we still have to solve" That sentence really connected with me.

The best part about electric cars is that electricity appears out of thin air. Seriously how do you think the power to charge any of those batteries is made? Inconvenient facts not addressed at any point!

I know this is not kind of the "best option", but i think it's the less troublesome one for me: 1- Either goverments invest more on public transport (especially metro and Natural Gas powered BRTs) 2- Find a way to make biofuels that don't create CO2 as a byproduct. I just think it could go that way.

I understand that you mention China owning a significant number of mines, but it should be noted the Europeans, Americans and Canadians far outnumber the Chinese in terms of mining Cobalt and other minerals in East Africa. In my country, Barrick Gold from Canada managed to avoid 40 million in Taxes to my country through and elaborate scheme. Things will only become positive when we as Africans seize the means of manufacturing and trade of our own materials.

I like the thermal stability point you talked about of cobalt which is true, heck even metal recycling plants are focussing on it. One part I missed is the effect of regulation/subsidies on the reason why lithium and cobalt batteries are so wanted

This was way more balanced and nuanced than the title led me to believe. Loved Cleo’s take on the problem as being significant but solvable.

This is the first video ever where he doesn't use paper sheets with things printed on them. I'm actually impressed.

Chinese are actually big on cobalt free batteries. Tesla also buys these LFP batteries as basically the only western carmaker.

One of the many great things about Cleo Abrams is that she is able to explain concisely without using the word "like" 10 times a minute.

There's the question of just how much energy, and what kind that's required for the recycling process itself?

Thanks Cleo for mentioning the matter of Public Transit. We are just forgetting it for the sexier EVs.

Chinese are actually big on cobalt free batteries

I definitely think the point about not throwing the baby out with the bath water is a very good reminder for people. Our current clean energy solutions are not flawless, but that doesn’t mean we should give up on switching to clean energy, it just means we need to continue working to fix the problems that exist with green energy.

That progress bar at the bottom of the Ad was very very innovative, I like it cuz many times I want to support the creator by watching those sponsored Ads but I need to know how long they will take or I will try to make it short and just accidentally skip it so kudos for that little innovation johnny

As if the USA has ever cared about workers rights around the world. Just recently the supreme court refused to ban cocoa farmed using slave labor in US allied countries. In fact the USA has staged coups in the past to increase exploitation of workers and protect the interests of big business, like in Guatemala when they toppled an elected government to install a brutal, mass murdering dictatorship, just so Chiquita (the united fruit company) could keep workers in terrible slave like conditions. The only reason China can get away with its neocolonialism is that it is friendlier and less exploitative than the imperialism of the USA and the IMF. The USA only has itself to blame for this.

I’m so happy that Cleo mentioned investment in public transportation because the solution is staring us in the face.

I love investigative journalism like what your doing..it opens peoples eyes and its another level of knowledge that you shared to people.. thank you.. I know it's a hard core research.. your amazing.. 👏 👏 👏

The problem is that such batteries need to be recharged, which means that the environmental cost is passed on to power plants, which for the most part continue to run on fossil fuels.

A wise man once said: "EVs aren't here to save the environment, they're here to save the car industry."

I think you should talk with "strong towns" ,"city beautiful" or "not just bikes". They talk about how we build out cities and towns directly leads to overuse of cars and poor resource management just by the zoning and types of houses we are forced to make.

Sometimes when you learn about the challenges, it is easy to get bogged down or even overwhelmed. That is where Cleo comes in! If we look at China owning cobalt mines as merely a challenge to overcome, then we can think of ways to progress in ways that are more friendly to the environment as well as non-exploitative to other cultures. We can do that for a large assortment of challenges as well. It would be huge if we can make it true!

The heading of video is " The Dark Side of Electric Cars" and Thumbnail is showing pic stating "China Controls the Minerals". This is enough to understand prejudice.

I think this story was always about China not about clean energy or transport. You forgot to mention that the largest cobalt mine in DRC was acquired by the Chinese from an American investor. But let us not forget how many coups and dictators have been supported by the West for the purposes of controlling crude oil.

Thank you Cleo for pointing out that switching cars for electric cars is not the solution, and that reducing our reliance on all cars is one. Land-use and zoning has such a huge, and overlooked, impact on emissions.

Fun Fact about green energy: When power companies put up a new Green Energy site, they put up an equal-sized conventional plant somewhere else on the grid, which has to run the same time as the new Green plant. The reason for this is simple: if the grid goes down one volt below the minimum, the whole grid goes down. The tricky bit is that Green plants aren't consistent, but the demand is *constant.* Batteries can store a lot, but building enough batteries to store enough power to cover the gaps for an entire grid is possible, but that's a lot of heavy and rare metals being mined, eats up a lot of real estate and it's still both a limited resource and causing some massive human costs in the process. The problem is that, if the grid goes down and everyone can't watch the big game for six hours cause the wind's down or the clouds are out, people would be rioting in the streets. Power companies *cannot* afford that, in the PR or monetary sense, so they're obligated to put up those conventional plants to run as backups for the Green plants to meet their shortfalls. Ironically, one of the best power sources by their standards is dams, since it's zero emissions and has a controllable (and thus consistent) output. Nuclear is also Zero Emissions, but then it has it's own problems. The only truly No Harm power source is Geothermal, but that's limited by location.

I’ve never seen someone who could qualify equally as a robust journalist as she could a model. Sky is the limit with Cleo.

In this case same as western countries during industrial era, exploiting oil, coal, and other fossil fuel minerals. But no one talking about it.

Great video, tho this kind of behaviour is not only exclusive to China. If the US (or any other nation) had the foresight to take control of these mines, the situation would be the exact same. I'm not trying to let China off the hook here, but this is a global problem. Hopefully these mines will someday be owned by DRC itself.

alternative title: two adults padding each others back that the future is not like in their childhood tv shows

Hey Johhny, do you have any good sources? For a school project on cobalt

Johnny tbh if it wasn't China controlling it, it'd have been the west. So yeah the problem is that we see electric cars as the "cleaner future" option when we should've invested in affordable & accessible public transport for all. US could've easily been a leader in that if they didn't keep spending like almost $1 trillion/year on the industrial military complex. Since we're talking about big powers taking over & exploiting poorer less powerful countries, maybe you should do a video on Bolivia & the coup done against Evo Morales by the US to make sure the US secures the lithium reserves there. Sounds a fair & balanced view if you show how all big powers play this dirty game

What struck me is: the relative amount of mines owned by all parties, instead only stating the Chinese owned ones. We need more perspective.

This is the coolest collaboration I've ever seen on KZfaq.

the mix is amazing ❤ love you and Cloe together

this video seems honestly its just trying to appeal to a "china bad" audience, especially with all the intensity and "ooh the worlds gonna end". While its not good what happens, it's not like if america got there first etc... it would've been different. What I also don't understand is the fact that china wanting to make cheap cars is somehow portrayed as a bad thing?

you absolutely forgot to mention that the US is ALREADY doing the same thing in Latin-America with the litium mines 😒 Good video though 👍

Great video... good to see another perspective and even better you were willing to listen to her perspective and take that into account. If only the rest of us would do the same.

Bro literally ignored smartphones getting huge at the same time

Well, I would not say China is a communist country; in fact, it is a socialist country with some "Chinese characteristics". However, China is literally a state-owned capitalistic country. Although the CCP stands for the Chinese Communist Party, China is definitely NOT a communist country. Also, using the word "steal" is extremely unprofessional and rude. No one steals anything. There's always a price in exchange for products. China just saw the opportunity and took action early, PERIOD. America always judged everything China did just so wrong and evil. Not everything has to be politically related. As the greatest country on earth, how about America helping Africa to build some infrastructure and lend them money as well? Stop blaming everything on China lol

You can never expect a fair representation of something that’s been politicized, it’s sad really.

Great video bro. You show us the global economic chain of E-cars, and open the eyes of ones that think E-cars are "clean", but in the end you came with an interesting perspective, that minerals could be reclible.

Hey Johnny, hi, I’ve been watching a lot of your videos recently and I really like the channel, this video just popped up and I decided to watch it and I like that you talked about electric cars because not many people are talking about the behind the scenes. And I know it’s not really your thing, but I would really enjoy a more in-depth look on how electric cars are being made and what it’s doing to the environment because I have read a lot about it and I just don’t think people really know what all goes into it, and what it does to the planet and what kind of scars it leaves, and yes, it does not put emissions into the air, but no one is talking about the fact that you’re scoring the surface of the Earth, forever and creating dust that does get into the air, especially at the lithium mines, and also the disposal of these batteries when they are all used up is talks to find the ground that they are being Disposed of. I love the way that you really dive into research and go out it with everything you have and it seems like being at your job. You have a lot of time to fully investigate some thing and I just wish you would make a video more in depth on the subject, and also talking and questioning more people that might not be as biased

I feel like you are more concerned that China controls these new resources. I dont think the mining operations would have been any different if it were some other country in control of this... West has its fair share of exploit and pillage in course of history, by no means I am supporting China for this, its just that it has been there before anyone would have gauged the potential for cobalt. Uganda and Africa in general has been exploited by west for centuries before China came in lately for its share... And for evs to be greener theres been a study that only after some 30-40k miles they get even with ICE cars depending on the way a country produces its energy.

A lot of the focus on cobalt in EV’s ignores that we already use cobalt for gasoline processing. EV technology is advancing to reduce dependence on cobalt and to recycle cobalt in batteries. Meanwhile the mature tech of gasoline development has decided that cobalt is the way to go with gas processing. Anyone who is truly concerned about cobalt use should promote EV’s over ICE.

Love the monitor dude, that has to be sweet to game on

There's an old saying: *As long as you don't see it, it's clean.*

I'm kind of worried about the focus on China when America's role in these problems is overlooked or minimized

Calling public transport"not pretty" or whatever is such an US POV. People need to learn to love Busses, trains and bicycles

Can you do an up to date version of this? Love to hear your thoughts.

We are lucky that not all the batteries requires cobalt. I work in the li-ion battery industry and in the next future, most cars will use iron and phosphorous (LFP).

The title is misleading. Tesla, Samsung and Panasonic are already moving away to cobalt-free batteries. Model 3 & Y with LFP batteries are already cobalt-free. A much more in-depth research video here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/eqx8a8yCmNaXk30.html

I work closely with the automotive industry and they absolutely hate it when you bring up the question “isn’t all this another limited resource we have to dig up?” For awhile I was hoping we would go hydrogen in our cars, but that process isn’t too pretty either after some research. Amazing work and great points as always 🤟🏼

This is exactly why I and pretty much my entire friend circle think, that the EU's decision to rule out any other methods other than electrification for cars is absolutely stupid. Not only are we having to exploit and waste ressources, we're also polluting in other ways. There's also the fact, that it's not really clean until your electricity source is clean too. And that's not to mention how absolutely massive the needed infrastructure is, to get even half the population to drive electric. It simply doesn't make sense and isn't even feasible long term... Instead we could focus on improving the Internal Combustion design to run clean on more abundant and readily available ressources like hydrogen or create a new solution entirely (maybe even consider nuclear energy due to it's insane efficiency and it not being as bad as people think). But no, instead we are focussing on a technology, that doesn't take too much thinking to realise just how unrealistic it is to chase. Maybe if we focussed on improving public transport to the Swiss standard (I live there, I can confirm it's great), so it's not only usable and clean, but also in a lot of cases a better option than driving. It's also cheaper if you use it regularly and get a subscription, so there's a natural incentive for people to switch and it shows... But at the same time I also hope we don't just completely give up on roads, given the amount of culture, that exists behind cars and motorcycles. In fact, if most people used public teansport, it would be an amazing experience even for those who drive for enjoyment, because there's less traffic and therefore roads also become safer. It's a win win really.

Would love a podcast from the two of you!

Cleo is correct. While the amount on earth IS finite, well the air on earth we breathe is technically finite too... It's just we have a carbon cycle. Aluminum is also finite, but in the 1700s after the process to isolate aluminum was discovered it became dirt cheap and is also infinitely recyclable as are most other metals. Edit: changed "The Woman is right though" to "Cleo is correct"

As others have mentioned as well, although the situation in the Congolese mines is awful, having them under American corporate or another nation's control wouldn't result in anything better. Hell we cant even get coffee, bananas or chocolate to be harvested in a humane manner or get our clothes to be made outside of sweat factories. How do you expect Corporations to keep children out of the mines in Africa? Definitely a problem that needs to be solved (for all these areas) but to badmouth china because of it is kinda... weird? hypocritical? whatever.

Nord VPN link is not working for me. It just spins in 'Order processing' when I enter my payment info. Has the offer expired?

So weird that there's somebody just sitting next to him working while he's filming, like this is in an Internet cafe or something.

Unfortunately, this is one of those here-is-a-picture-and-here-is-my-10-minutes-of-lecture plus China-is-evil-and-we-are-doomed type of videos that don't live up to the Jonny Harris standard of journalism. Not much information or investigation, mainly based on speculation and personal opinion, story goes superficial and driven by hate and implemented by amplifying fear. The sheer size of China dictates that it is dominant in so many industries or manufacturing sectors just like the US does in others. Guess for every product or mineral that China has an advantage over the US a similar video can be made. It also sounds awfully hypocritical when "news outlets" nowadays try to tell narratives in which China should be responsible for all deep-rooted problems in Africa. As much as I dislike the Chinese government, this sort of cliche is getting boring.

Battery chemistry is changing all the time. Most batteries of the future will not use cobalt. Most (at this stage) will be lithium-iron (LFP) batteries. The other thing to remember is that batteries are now 93-95% recyclable which means that once it's out of the ground, all of these minerals will be cycling through the industry without the need for further mining. What no one seems to be talking about as well is copper. We are right on the cusp of hitting a wall where we need to mine copper to have any (for the first time since the bronze age). Before this there has been copper cycling through industry that meant only a fraction needed to mined to keep up with supply. Luckily there are some technologies becoming available that will allow copper extraction from clay, but even with this copper will become a limiting resource and EVERYTHING electrical requires copper to manufacture, especially electric cars and renewable energy.

Thank you for great video ❤️ I used to be a climate activist and I'm still deeply interested in the topic, but I never realized this particular problem with electric cars batteries, which is just dumb and I am ashamed. (I always concentrated more on how nature reacts to the change, but socio-economical aspects are so important and maybe more important if we want to do anything about the situation). So thank you again!

Cobalt’s mined in Africa, where China owns 15 of 19 mines to control electric battery supply. 10 minutes saved right there.

Wow looks like China learned one from the playbook. I feel like this is the same for China in the semi-conductor industry where US basically dominates in (including ASML & TSMC)

Just curious, what is that worries you more: China controlling resources as opposed as US controlling resources or Congo people being poor whilst sitting in good just as Irak people just as an example?

Tesla is already using cobalt-free LFP batteries in half of its new cars produced!!

What is in the process of recycling though? Is it super clear or super dirty?

Here is a bit on lithium-ion battery chemistry that most people do not seem to understand very well: All modern rechargeable lithium batteries are lithium-ion batteries, this refers to the fact that it is the lithium ions (negatively charged atoms of lithium) move from the negative side to the positive side through an electrolyte. The battery technology like Lithium Iron Phosphate (PFP), refers to the cathothe (positive) side of the battery. The current technologies are as follows: Lithium Nickel Manganese Cobalt Oxide (NMC, EVs, tools, grid storage, good specific energy and power density) Lithium Nickel Cobalt Aluminum Oxide (NCA, EVs, very good specific energy and lifespan, these are the most dangerous ones) Lithium Manganese Oxide (hybrid EVs, consumer devices) Lithium Iron Phosphate (EVs, tools, these are the safest ones) Lithium Cobalt Oxide (one of the early lithium ion chemistries used by Sony). Of theses, NCA and LFP are the two Tesla uses and seem to be the two that get the most press coverage. NCA is the better cell chemistry but they are more dangerous and expensive. LFP is much cheaper but not as energy or power dense. When people are talking about the price of Cobalt or Nickel and how it affects batteries, they are usually referring to NCA or NMC cells. The most important element remains lithium, as currently there are no good batteries being produced at any sort of scale that do not use lithium, but plenty of options using other materials. LFP is very promising as a cheap battery, since it is just Iron and phosphorus in addition to lithium. As a side note, the anode (negative side) is typically made of graphite, but there are other materials. Solid state batteries seem to be on the horizon, but do not underestimate the difficulty of mass production. Lithium ion batteries date back to the 1960s and where first in mass production and being sold by Sony in 1991. There is a lot more research into batteries nowadays, but going from a few dozen made in a lab to a few dozen a second is extremely challenging. As a further sidenote, lithium-polymer batteries are lithium-ion batteries, but the electrolyte is a solid polymer sheet. They do not differ too much from cylindrical lithium-ion cells and the arguably more accurate name for them would be lithium-ion pouch cell. Prismatic cells also exist, though they aren't very widespread. If you would like to read more, the Wikipedia page on Lithium-ion batteries is a good start.

Honestly it baffles me that we are trying to make cars greener instead of reducing the amount of cars in the world. In my hometown public transportation is highly ineficient, and the city is designed for cars, yet it's just the 30% of people who use them. It's a class issue as well as an environmental one.

I don’t buy that China just made a gamble on the mines. Isn’t it a little strange?

NO WAY I LOVE both of youuuu aaaaa this is the best feat ever

Cleo basically took the words out of my mouth. No one ever said the green future would be perfect. We’re just trying to keep getting better over time

Cobalt is NOT needed for EVs. Half of all new Teslas sold currently use an LFP chemistry with zero cobalt.

Is it correct though (I read it from somewhere) that although China is the main foreign investor in DRC’s cobalt industry but actually most of the cobalt mining in the DRC are small miners? It could be another optimistic view, if correct

Johnny dropping bangers while dressed like a hitchhiker who's headed to the congo who snuck into a fancy apartment. Keep it up.

50% of Teslas sold use lithium iron phosphate batteries which don’t use any cobalt

It's important to keep in mind that the green revolution is just a tech revolution, a change in the source of energy we use, not a social revolution where everybody lives in peace and happy. Mankind is still the same, politics are still the same and the pursue for power is still gonna be the same. China controlling mines doesn't necessarily means that the world is doomed, just that China took advantage over west countries in some specific resources that might be useless in the next tech wave. And also if the US or other west countries had the mines instead, the oods wouldn't be much different: people would still work in harsh conditions and they will pollute the environmient just as much in order to reduces costs because the returns on invetments need to be kept high. The world is still the same, let's just not fool ourselves.

So, mining Cobalt is bad and evil, but mining everything else is okay?

this was a beautiful video. congrats!

Wait a minute, is that means China had developing cobalt for over 20 years and recently you found that’s not all right?

I really dig the duality of Johnny getting to the dark, seedy underbelly of the truth, but then Cleo to balance out that ugly reality with optimism. Moar collabs, please!

Johny Harris: lemme show you a map The whole KZfaqr community: 'gun click'

Hey guys. Fantastic video. I think you make some great points. What do you think of sustainability? Can we really live without oil or oil products?

I do agree with some of Johnny's criticisms regarding worker rights, deforestation, pollution, and that China doesn't seem to be doing anything about it BUT let's not pretend it'd be any different if a western company held control of these mines. It'd be the same story but with a different bad guy. The only way forward is for the DRC government to step in, protect their citizens, and protect their resources. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening.

When you set the narrative of “stealing”, it is inevitably biased. Can’t imagine a former student of IR would talk negotiations between countries like that…

Johnny's one of the few liberal types who have been honest about the dark side of EVs. Kudos and cheers to honest discourse!

Clean energy doesn't mean a clean and better way of doing it. If other to have everything about clean, you need "clean" people to do it. This cycle or loop will continue as long as we don't become clean morally and mentally.

When China was dirt poor and the west invested heavily into that country to make China the west's source for cheap labor, no one seems to call it an exploitation. I don't understand Harris's concern. The reason why the Chinese accepted what fundamentally was a bad deal was because China was weak. China saw the bad deal as a tuition fee to learn technologies from the west (China didn't steal those technology. They traded it with blood and sweat, like literally - chinese labors are cheap for a reason) DRC's situation is similar to what China had gone through. Poor nation being heavily invested in for resource they have. The Chinese will not care about how the DRC runs their country. The Chinese only want to do business. And this business is a life line to the DRC. They are so technologically backwards that cobalt aren't useful to them at all. Right now, DRC is trading that mineral to earn a living. Perhaps this earning can be used to better the country. Or may be not if the country is marred with corruption. Anyhow, the Chinese do not care because the Chinese do not meddle with another country's internal affair. And why is it always about China wanting to control the world? This actually tells me a lot more about how Harris thinks rather than how China thinks. China, like any sensible country, only cares about improving their economy by strengthening their supply chains. How do you even spin that to China wanting to take over the world by being the gatekeeper to a highly valuable resource.

That's why we are moving away from Cobalt entirely. Every battery we use on my channel does not use cobalt at all, which is LiFePO4 and LTO. Cobalt based chemistries are also dangerous to use. And it's expensive, every EV maker is moving away from it as well. The minerals used in LiFePO4 can be extracted from multiple places in the world. And recycling this chemistry is much easier than the others. And the degradation rate is much lower as well. I currently use non cobalt based batteries and solar to charge my ev without the grid. Zero coal or foreign oil used to fill up my car. If you charge Offgrid and have a Tesla with lifepo4, all of these arguments instanly disappear.

Cleo and Johnny! It would be fantastic if you can produce a video on the importance of investing in public transit.

I like to imagine that this is what Hank would've been watching when he was bedridden