As everything in aeronautics that is not american or english world, in fact.

LOL - not at all under-appreciated...just the standard French, "Pah, Zees 'wheel' is not from France! Ve vill zees re-invent from zee baxic mathematique!" Then proceed to re-invent everything from the circle on up, throw away any original plans and by dint of amazing amounts of work make the project successful anyways. France is *expected* to be competent so doesn't always get the seeming praise of the Anglo-sphere....Each nation that can makes its own weapons systems. One never knows when a change of power in an "Ally" turns them into your next enemy....

Not by all of us, but note where much of the R&D $ came from

The Pre War achievements are even more under appreciated: invention of the turbojet, the statoreactor (Ramjet), the Pulsoreactor,etc.

True.. it’s common in the English speaking places around the globe to basically ridicule and belittle anything French , possibly a carryover from the numerous French English wars that had become so common up until the 20th century.

With jammers, they would have been very useful over Kuwait in '90/'91 right through 'til today. Apparently B-52's over 30,000ft were used against forward SAM defended Iraqi positions with impunity. Interesting that altitude again meant safety. Bon jour.

Dassault, outre les patrons (héritiers) qui dégradent leur image, sont quand même un fleuron de la technologie. C'est d'ailleurs ce qui m'enrage encore plus envers ces "capitaines d'industries" en France: ils ne sont pas au niveau des industries qu'ils parasitent... Mais bref, je m'égare.. Oui les mirages, le rafale, et même pour le logiciel, les Français sont capables de faire de belles choses et de rivaliser avec les déluges de dollars dont bénéficient les compagnies US. J'ai grandi a Biscarrosse, entre le CEV de Cazaux, et le CEL, on voyait souvent ces oiseaux de métal voler sur nos tètes, mon mentor en informatique travaillait pour le CEV et avec lui on partageait notre passion pour l'aéronautique... Dans les années 80, on voyait aussi des tirs d'ICBM, c'était fou, le bruit fracassant et de voir ces fusées partir dans le ciel, quand on était en primaire on galopait dans la cour pour voir ca. Salutations d'un Gascon !

I was a maintainer in the Israeli Air Force in the 90s, mostly on F-4E "Kurnass". I think the only cold war jet possibly more iconic than the Phantom, would be a Dassault Mirage-IV. We had all French jets in the Six Day War : Super Mistare, Vatoure, & Mirrage III. We had an old Vatoure on a pedistal in front of one of our squadrons HQ, it was big and ungainly, but had a vary long and usefull bomb payliad doors. The Mirrage was before my time, but we still had a few Kfir in service. Dassault make the most beautifully leathal jets.

@@trespire Super Mystère, Vautour, Mirage III. 🤓

@@garryiglesias4074 "Mais bref, je m'égare.." Complètement, les entreprises familiales sont plus performantes +3.7 % en chiffre d'affaire par ans que les non familiales

I mostly agree but have a quibble. Everyone in Bushco, including the US military and possibly Dubbya himself, knew what France knew. It wasn't a failure in intelligence, it was a wilful crime and everyone involved should have been handed over to a world court. I. Pete. An American patriot am the first to admit that. Cheers!

The Mirage IV wing thickness is 3.8% root to 3.2% tip; the F-104 is 3.36%, according to wikipedia.

@@grizwoldphantasia5005 That is just a thickness to chord ratio. It doesn't give the nominal value of the thickness itself. To get thickness you multiply that percent by the chord

It is an absolute beauty, a Cold War masterpiece …. Big too .. I have been to Elvington to see it … blew me away …

Large cockpit australia mirage 111 museum. I'm in cockpit too small I'm 193cm 103kg.

DONCASTER WOZ ERE 💯🤟🇬🇧

True

France put the 'art' in aircraft.

The much maligned French do so many things right. That being just one of the many.

@@stevenhoman2253 And if we stick to your ridiculous observations, do you have any idea of ​​the percentage of their daily density?

Were

Such a shame the Rafale wasn't brought into the Mirage family, it certainly inherits its predecessors good looks (at least in a clean configuration)

I don't think there is any other design in history in which a bomber frame was made from a scaled up fighter frame. If you can think of one, tell me please

The Mirage IV was flown by both Aérospatiale & BAC Concorde test pilot's before they first flew the prototype's, as it was expected to handle like a huge-Mirage IV too👍

True

@@guaporeturns9472 🇮🇱

@@Eric-kn4yn 🇫🇷

Elegant and deadly. A Mirrage-III flown by Giora Epstein holds the all time world record for confirmed kills in a fighter jet. In the right hands, French built Dassault jets decimated Soviet/Russian jets, some were secretly piloted by Russian pilots.

@@trespire Love the Mirages..Joeseph McConnell shot down 16 during the Korean War… no helicopters though.

Concorde could do that all the way from France to the US never mind 30 minutes.

@@andrewallen9993 Of course, except Concorde, you’re right. Forgot to mention that.

Can't say that's impressive. R.530 was a short-range missile meant mostly for close encounters, not intercepting Mach 2 bombers. It was also a pretty crappy missile, as the Six-Day War demonstrated.

@@sergeychmelev5270 Don’t think so. Matra 530 and later Super 530 had this particular purpose, intercepting high altitude target. Maybe short range compared to some others, indeed, but a very good climber. The missile himself was not bad, but the radar of the Mirage III had very limited range and was not realy accurate. I would had that people in general underestimate the difficulty to intercept high altitude / high speed targets, same for very low / high speed targets, by the way. In both cases, for different reasons, the firing window is very small and short. And what must not be forgotten is that at this period, the kill ratio of semi active missile was very poor. Maybe something like 15% for the AIM-7 during Vietnam war, if i remembre well.

@@andrewallen9993 Concorde balancing fuel tank system is inspired from the one used on the Mirage IV.

I worked without a Airbase oparate Mirage 2000-5 (air domination version) (But I Know this fighter in meeting At 11 years. Go inside for make a photo. 11 Old I already had difficulty getting into the Cockpit because it is so small) (I am a litel boy of 1 m90 or around 6.25 Ft to day)) Generally, I don't really like the design of American Aircraft, but I must admit that the LM Sr71 and Northrop YF-23 are beyond anything we have done in Europe, and even in France or Russia, generations ahead. Its planes look like they came out of a science fiction film. I think the Black Widow is the most beautiful and awesome airplane ever created. The Yf-23 was so superior to the F22 in almost every way that it's hard to understand the choice (other than corruption) When you see this plane, you have the impression of seeing a plane of a higher generation. Its engineers put so much energy and work into making the plane successful, especially with the GE variable-cycle engines, its speed and its altitude. It was refused for all projects, the superiority one, the bomber, and the modified version for the Navy, the Nataf. We say to ourselves that the Northrop engineers must have really had it wrong, and I have the balls for them. We see that this very squashed and wide shape guarantees a small equivalent surface area. It was widely used on the last Russian Sukhoi. To return to our good old Mirage 4 (Call us, “La pelle à tarte”) "Cake, pie server" This is due to its super flat wings (supersonic flight) and its super long landing gear. On the ground, he had a really special look. (from the front, it also looked like we were seeing a medieval knight in armor. Or a pink flamingo walking. What we can know about going back to the Mirage 4 is its ability to fly supersonic for a long time. 30 minutes at mach 2 and more than an hour at mach 1.8. The mirages 3 in training never manage to intercept it. (between his electronic warfare and his speed) he was untouchable. Which at the time was totally unique. The Sr71 has superior possibilities, but its so difficult to oparate and the cary possibility are nothing comparable. Another strength of the Mirage 4 is that it can completely change missions during its career. When the U2 of Francis Gary Powers was brought down by the Soviets SAM, the French changed from the high altitude mission to combat infiltration at very low altitude. (to avoid radar) And the bomber is wonderfully well adapted to the new flight characteristics. The Mirage 4 will serve as the technological basis for the Concorde. Its flight controls are the ancestor of the F.B.W. flight controls. French and European. which will greatly accelerate the design of Concorde and subsequently give Fly by wire to Airbus and Dassault. Which are often far superior to other manufacturers. For my part, my favorite Mirage (design) was the Mirage F1, with its small high wings and huge belly cans, it was our French F104. It was fast, maneuverable and efficient (although its radar was a bit crap and worked when it wanted (overheating) Via its best-of-the-moment missiles, it still knocked out a certain number of Iranian F14s, a much more sophisticated and expensive aircraft. But in the military, technology does not always equate to success. You only have to see Vietnam to understand.

The DS-19, has a suprising ammont of aviation technology in its design. Eng. Paul Magés designed the revolutonary hydropneumatic suspention system.

and most recently the Rafale but not only

They also build gorgeous private jets. Falcon 8x

That’s so cool. Love French aviation

Hello, they are many in French like this one. Just use subtitles and from parameters select your native language to enjoy it. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/j5qonbaAx6vadqc.html

G'day, You're not bloody wrong ! Growing up in Oz, I recall the transition from Vampires and Avon-Sabres overflying ANZAC Days and Canberra's beating-up little Country Town Aero-Club Fly-ins on Summer Weekends...; then we saw Mirage- III and Phantoms, then F-111 overflights. I thus grew up being so used to seeing the Mirage III from all angles, and being much more interested in Camels and Spitfires, Triplanes and Edit. Posted early via Finga Trubble...l ...Triplanes and Messerschmitts, that I never read anything about the Mirage-IV and thus if I thought anything about it my impression was that it was "probably" an "updated version of" the Mirage III...; but I cannot swear to being aware of the Second Seat nor the Second Powerplant, and certainly I was unaware that the Mirage-IV was visually a M.-III which had been upscaled in every Dimension by 50% or 60%, while discretely adding in a second Cockpit behind the Pilot and two Engines fitted side-by-side.... So in Photographs, unless something fairly jarring is in-frame, to enforce a sense of Scale it's never previously struck me that the M.-IV was so very much bigger than the M.-III...; I apparently always interpreted the Photo' as being a Mirage-III by misunderconstumbling the distance and therefore getting the scale wrong - and moving on (to something "more interesting" - with a Propeller or several). Somewhere between Confirmation Bias and Domestic Blindness, and seeing what I expected to look at - I suppose. Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

Dassault was Bloch 🇮🇱

@@Eric-kn4yn And he was always a french citizen, formed in France and have a lot of good local engineers and have a really good aviation industry in his country to help him and the designs of his firm...so no.

Actually if you're been in a French school prior to 1990 and the takeover of the liberal globalisation which now totally achieved to corrupt French elites and the subsequent administration of French schools .....It's VERY easy to understand why we could achieve that despite being such a "small" country ( a small country which have more fields medals per square meter than almost everywhere else , and invented a large portion of all the technologies of the "modern world " ) ..... Because you see , thanks to the very successful brainwashing within anglo saxon countries about anything non privatized being a communist antichrist genocide enterprise ( they even made you forget about christ in the scriptures washing the feet of prostitutes and doing miracles for the poor , which is a feat , but protestant reform was kind of magical in that sense ) , in anglo saxon countries you can only attain higher education if you already have money ( your parents money most of the time , or later in life when you accumulated enough but your brain's power is already declining ) , and there's a statistical problem with that , families with money don't only, automatically produce top shelf brains ( heh rich people like to fuck dumb models too , some families the wealth of which was born out of pure luck can be rich but not automatically very brilliant ) .....So only a very small population of rich people that can attain higher education at the right age , an even smaller proportion actually have the talent to put that higher education to groundbreaking use , wasting in the process hundreds of thousands of poor people brains who could have performed even better had they had access to the same higher education "free of charge" ( well no free from taxes , but well spent taxes who could have by the way of generated innovations created billions of profits for the country ) .... France *was a MERIT based society , where everybody had a shot at it , and let me tell ya , over the whole approx 57 millions of French citizens who had a shot at it , our state , however embarrassing for the anglo saxon liberal cult , could find more highly potent brains statistically , than in a mere 1-2-3 millions of very rich people able to access higher education in the anglo saxon countries , it's really basic statistics ....But your elites know that fact very well , and they're fine with it because they don't want to bother managing an educated population on a wide scale , nor paying for it , that's pretty much why they compensate by attracting internationally , very well formed brains from countries where education cost nothing with juicy salaries , and by sucking up all the data , inventions and patents they can extract from French and other European companies for free through NSA spying , repossessions of our companies by bankrupting them through international sanctions based legal weasel work , not even counting extra territoriality of the dollar based fines , which is basically worldwide brainpower parasitism made policy .....

'the' supersonic fighter thing, sorry.

The Lightning was a sparkling performer, but it kinda cheated by leaving all its fuel on the ground!

Speaking of the "sleek looks" I think that may have a lot to do with the development of the Fairey Delta II - Dassault were kind enough to allow Fairey airbase facilties after our british government issued too much red tape for it to continue it's supersonic flight testing. The Fairey Delta II was a record breaking single engined supersonic prototype that lost out after Duncan Sands took an axe to our air force development budgets - the Fairey Delta 3 was a twin engined jet that would certainly have given the famous English Electric Lightening a run for it's money but sadly Duncan's axe fell leaving Dassault with a lot of know how in the development of it's own aircraft - not all was lost with the Fairey Delta though even from the British perspective - the hinged nose for example was adopted in the development of the Anglo-French Concord. Our biggest impediment was NOT lack of technology or innovation but rather political intrigue and shortsightedness again from the political class.

Dassault Bloch 🇮🇱

@@Eric-kn4yn No. Not at all, even today Israel can't do an combat aircraft, and no the Lavi is not a success...

@@Balrog2005 The Kfir exists, and it's still in service with at least 3-4 export customers

@@Tigershark_3082 Totally based on the Dassault Mirage 5 plans were ''stolen'', thanks to prove my point.

🇮🇱 dassault

Happy new year!

Not stealthy for 21C

@@Eric-kn4yn Stealth wasn't really a thing back when this plane was built. And what's more stealth does *nothing* for a plane's aestetics.

Glad you liked it!

Good choice. I can see why you picked it

Although the expressed mission of the TSR-2 was different, the actually specification required in the associated OR is pretty much the same. Unfortunately, the TSR-2 was a victim of the issues of the UK's aerospace industry in the 1950s and the massive cut in funding after the Sandys report. It was due to be in service the year this Mirage entered it. The USN Vigilante was quite similar, apart from being carrier-capable and having having a munitions delivery system inspired by a hen.

The Mirage IVS (a Spey engined version) was offered by Dassault and BAC after the TSR-2 was cancelled, but Britain opted for the F-111K instead for political reasons. And then cancelled it too.

@@RedXlV Yes, the F-111K was a really botched project :(

@@RedXlV I know about the later Spey engined proposal, I was thinking more pre-TSR-2 development. There are a number of interesting what-if Anglo-French projects, ranging from relatively simple Avon engined Mirage IIIs (as actually was tested for the RAAF), slightly modified Clemenceau class carriers instead of rebuilding Ark & Eagle (able to stick around until the 90s) and others. Ultimately the real problem with the Mirage IV is how you use it. It didn’t have the range or payload for genuine strategic bombing, but as a tactical bomber it was certainly a good option. If given a modest stand-off capability, they’d have been fit for use through to the 90s.

@@edsutherland8266 It's a pity Australia didn't go for the Avon Mirage III. Particularly since CAC was already license-building the non-afterburning versions of the Avon. The Avon 67 would've been a significant increase in thrust compared to the Atar. As for the Mirage IV's limited range, I'd love to know what sort of range the Mirage IVS would've had. The Spey turbofan isn't as thirsty an engine as the Atar turbojet.

There's no 'god'. Sorry.

@@kiereluurs1243 I can't make you believe, but I do so sorry to you

To me the III is most elegant Western jet until the arrival of the F15.

Thank you!

Yes adelaide a/c museum parafield.mirage 111. Cockpit too small I'm 193cm 103kgs

@@Eric-kn4yn There is only so far you can pull your head in and raise your knees, especially if you expect to eject, keeping any of your limbs. A fellow, I know, was a former USAF F-16 pilot till his retirement. He was fairly diminutive, but that is an advantage in G-lock situations, I believe. He flew them for well over 20 years and still loves them. (it being one of my secret loves, too.) Another aircraft that is astonishingly small, in the flesh, is the English Electric Canberra bomber. It usually makes a showing at the Melb. Int. Air Show just inside the entrance. A remarkable aircraft in every way, and the roles it could fulfil, leaving it to become the only aircraft the proud Americans have ever been forced to purchase from a foreign supplier. Tremendous range and altitude, sans a refuelling ability; with a camera and/or bomb capacity.(Boscombe Downs to Washington, DC @ 50,000 ft without being spotted on radar) At a comfortable enough pace, for Wing Commander and senior test pilot Beaumont at the stick.

​@@stevenhoman2253 The Americans bought the Harrier too

The B-58 had almost 3 times the range and a substantially longer supersonic cruise time.

@@mikearmstrong8483 and an incredibly short service life.

@@wbertie2604 so did the B-17, B-36, B-29, F-86, F-100, F8F, F7F, etc. Service life means nothing.

@@SoloRenegade Especially during an era of rapid evolution in both technology and warfighting doctrine.

@@SoloRenegade pretty much all of those you listed had a longer service life than the B-58. The B-17 had a service life of 30 years. Even the F7F managed the same ten years as the B-58 despite being during the transition to jet power. The B-58 managed ten years in a period of time with a slower rate of evolution than 1944-54. It's short for the period, although shared with a few other US aircraft of that time. A short service life in the late 1940s or early to mid-1950s is more typical as the pace of development was very rapid then. In the case of the Hustler, it was short because the mission profile evaporated, being superseded by ICBMs, and it's slightly surprising to me that it got built as it was clear it would have a short life from the outset, just covering a period when the number of ICBMs was not at intended strength, which ended in the mid-60s. The mission still existed for France as it didn't have ICBMs at the time.

There was a Fairey Delta 3 which was a twin engined jet version of the record breaking Fairey Delta 2 which in my view looked a lot better than the EE Lightening and a lot more like the sleek Mirage fast jet line. Sadly Duncan Sands axe fell and left Fairey with a big dilemma because it's expected immediate customer was to be our armed services and when that got ruled out effectively so did any cash projections to realistically justify the cost of continuing development.

The economics of budget limitations. Every round matters. Europe doesn't have anything like the US military budget.

I never heard of that capability, as stated France had to buy a fleet of tankers to be able tu refuel mid air. You may check ate chuet's video where he make a tour of the mirage iv with a pilot who flown it (his father actually, both are retired military pilots).

Yes that’s exactly the reason why Elvington has a Mirage IV - the only example on public display outside of France. The French Air Force has maintained close ties with Yorkshire Air Museum in memory of their squadrons who flew from there during WW2. The Mirage IV was delivered to Elvington by a French Air Force pilot whose father had flown from the base during the war

You almost bought the Rafale though, the Mirage's child, that is imho much more aesthetic than the F35.

I hope you have a large shelf to put it on 😇

@@razorback20 I’d have to find some space between all my other fighters…. I’ll make it work.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mMCGprmVldyvgXk.html

They got the Mirage 1V (and other French aircraft) as Elvington was home to 2 Free French Halifax squadrons from 1944 to the end of WW2 and so have close ties to the French Air Force

@@dcmchugh99 Now you've reminded me I think there's a plaque to that effect with the Mirage 4 (Thanks David)

I really don’t get why so many say the Tomcat is beautiful: to me, it’s an ugly duckling and there have been far better looking military aircraft produced, even by the US, in fairness.

Never, absolutely wrong! From the beginning of that drama, both the Armée de l’air and the government knew exactly 6 Mystère IV where involved in the accident. The 6 Mystère IV were in route to Sevilla in Spain, from Cazeaux in France, with no navigation means on board, except a radiocompass, they got lost, and ran out of petrol and all 6 pilots had to eject. In 1966, i can say, no Mirage IV had never landed or intented to, on a foreign country airfield.

Was Mystere IV not Mirage IV

@@bertrandviolette9008 Oui mais l'anecdote est plus riche: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/r62Km9V0ubaamWQ.html À bon entendeur!

@@Pouncer9000 Et bien moi, je ne crois pas son anecdote à propos du général de Gaulle croyant avoir perdu des Mirage IV. Ce n’est pas parce qu’il le dit que c’est crédible. C’est une légende urbaine qu’il répète pour atténuer son sentiment de culpabilité et justifier sa mise à pied. À bon entendeur!

@@bertrandviolette9008 Rôh, on peut quand même imaginer un subalterne chargé de transmettre l'info mélanger ses Mystère avec ses Mirage?

You know if the Mirage IVs had dropped their atomic bombs on Moscow and the big Russian cities, it was because it was a one-way trip since France would have been nothing but a nuclear wasteland. Now, sacrificing your life for bloody revenge is very much in the French spirit.