So true. If you don't have disposable income, this game isn't for you. Unless your playing low power low cost jenk or precons....hell the newer precons have been $60+.

Yeah but a commander precon is between 40-60 and I generally think they are well built and fun to play expecialy for newer players. Also they probably generally hold value better than an Xbox game.

​@@elijahwalker323I think the podcast especially is looking at more from the perspective of competitive and 1v1 formats. Commander is definitely accessible, especially since proxying is completely accepted.

This is definitely the most restrictive part of magic and it’s probably why competitive magic is ACTUALLY dying. They can’t maintain the same amount of players because there simply isn’t enough people who can afford to try a format, not to mention GAINING more active players in a specific format

I think pauper might be a good solution to this. It's cheap enough that you can have multiple decks to teach people but they can also be simple without all the new mechanics. People also get to play with the classics like counterspell and lightning bolt. Then if they're interested they can get a deck for as cheap as 30 bucks. It is also not such a strong format that home brews can be viable. It's the perfect casual competitive format to introduce people to magic in my opinion.

Hahaha GAY!!!! 😅😂🎉

It's simply the worst marketing, they don't seem to give a shit and it makes zero sense! I was at the biggest event of the year in Vegas last year, and that was badly done, I only knew because I sought it out. And the competitive events that are smaller they do even worse

That sounds pretty fun

Im guessing you ban cards that were banned in their standard format? Otherwise Tolarian Academy combo and Affinity would rule the format

My playgroup is switching to Pre-modern. Fun decks that are affordable and the format is limited to a set number of sets.

⁠@@AMageOldAsDirt Better than that : we ban players without pride or ethic! 😂

We call it super standard, and it's a great eternal format.

Core sets should be the reprint sets, not Master or Horizon sets.

That was his point.@@stormycat0905

OR let proxies exist since they sold proxies for $1000

One thing I remember a lot of early Magic players talk about is saving money to buy a couple pacts from their LGS and building from what they opened. That's how I started, and my playgroup too with the $20 Starter pacts. Nowadays, because of Hasbro/WOTC shortsighted gaze on money there are no products for younger people. They'd rather play a game that has Luffy or Venusaur on a card they can collect and play with and I can't say that the characters, story, or products WOTC makes meeting that same interest with their current vision. It's built for the 30+ year Olds who are all leaving due to focusing on other things.

Where do people who experience Commander like this live? This sounds like a fairy tale to me. The several places that I tried to play Commnader were all sweaty even at a casual level. I don't mind as I'm a competitive player at heart, but Commander doesn't lend itself well to quality competitive play for starters. Then needing to use good cards instead of having being able to use jank cards that don't get played anywhere else was also boring. So I was playing incomplete Legacy Singleton and it just wasn't fun.

@@Xoulrath_ You need to get friends then.

@@sirKonradical what kind of fucking response is that, dude? You assume that I don't have friends because I went to THREE goddamn game stores, and only found a highly competitive Commander scene? You assume that the friends that I have who don't play card games at all give a shit about Commander? This is a legitimate problem for the life of this game. Or did you not listen to the podcast? They literally talk about how fewer and fewer young people play card games at all. If you can't find a game store to play the game, then why would you ever spend the money on the game? I was 20 when I started playing Magic in 1997. I had a lot of free time and money to burn. I LIVED at my local LGS. There were ALWAYS people there ready to play ANY of the formats available at the time. There was a Type 1 tournament on Friday evening on occasion. There were multiple Type 1.5 tournaments on Saturday or Sunday. There were Extened tourneys every other weekend. There was a Type 2 tourney every Saturday. You can NOT find that today. ALL you can find is Commander. Rule 0 is bullshit. Power rankings are bullshit. Turn 1 wins makes me not want to waste time shuffling up the deck, and I'm not spending money on a format that I don't even like to begin with. So again, I'll ask your rude, condescending ass one more time: where does one go to play jank Commander that isn't try hard mode with the newest broken cards? And you need to name a store. This game only exists today because of the LGS. Wizards is milking this game for all its worth and killing it in the process. But hey, with great community members like you, who are so fucking helpful, maybe Magic will survive another ten years in a sea of games that are just better than Magic is now.

@@Xoulrath_ Don't get hurt. You tried to be smart ass and I gave you an honest answer. You wanted to know where to find the kind of games I described and the place is with your friends you loser piece of shit

@@Xoulrath_ 🤣 You raged like a bitch. That's hilarious

Yup glad Saffron Olive learned his lesson

yeah complexity creep is for sure a thing, I dont really think its a giant issue, though. Much better to expand the game's design space than make strictly better cards, even though thats what they are doing as well...

Yeah, some of the new games are simpler, cheaper and more fun to play. MTG has a high hill to climb to become relevant to younger players.

Pauper is generally simple. Stuff around Experimental Synthesizer can get complicated, but there are quite a few good decks that are simple and cheap.

​@@stormycat0905 It seems to me that for quite some time the pattern for most players is to starting out playing Pokemon and then switching to MTG later. Specifically because it is a more complex game. That is what brings in the older players who are bored with the more simple games.

Idk we have young people show up at the LGS all the time and it isn't the complexity that scares them off(let's be real MtG attracts the I'm a big brain kind of person)it was the being curb stomped by every player with a fully fleshed put T1 deck. Who wants to go to the trouble of showing up at a place in person just to be farmed irl.

Source

Lol... A Promise from Wiz. (...) ever heard of MTG30? 🤣

@jesperwinther518 ? Mtg30 wasn't promised to be anything other than a official non-tournament reprint set like the crap they used to make in the 90's that sells for hundreds on the secondary market

@@TheEvolver311 Mark Rosewater has said, written and PROMISED over nearly a decade (...) up until nearly 3 months pre MTG30, that the reserved list would never see a reprint, regardless of foiling-method (like 'from the vault' etc.), proxy-types and/or cardback type. Look it up. - straight lies. #SourceBlogAtog (...) Regardless, Its PR talk/political-tactics. Don't believe a word said, written or between the lines. Waste of time and pointless beliefs. (...) they'll lie and kill your kitten for a dollar.

@jesperwinther518 lol, not a reprint literally not valid for sanctioned play. Gotta say surprised to see a person caring about the reserve list. I have my og duels and other reserve list stuff and I'd rather they do away with the RL since I can't actually enjoy them anywhere anymore without taking a flight.

good to see some new blood. so you think you can start by playing mono coloured decks and needd all the dual lands?

It also wouldn't be worth it for your LGS to sell them.

Battlebond was a great set. Lots of fun.

If your worried about AI “art” taking your job I’d suggest watching @TheArtMentor on KZfaq. He has a lot of videos on AI “art” that helped me feel a lot less concerned about it taking over creative industries.

What got you to come back?

Going through some old stuff and found some of my old decks and what not so i decided to maybe get back into it. I just started researching what's going on in the mtg world.

Using AI background art in a tweet isn't even worth discussing compared to the rest

@@windwaker01 i agree with that 100%. Seems like a nothing burger and i think wizards is being honest when they're like "hey, we didn't know about this right away".

This is funny to me because creatures have been consistently power creeped year after year since about 2006 when WotC actively refocused design towards facilitating mid-range creature strategies. Like honestly I think every year we've had a push in power creep, it's just that in 2006 creatures sucked so the creep had further to move than non-creature spells since WotC stared the game with way over powered instants, sorcery, and artifact spells.

People play with their own cards, why would they be given decks? A competitive deck is a few hundred dollars, cards are not given for free. Even assuming that was a thing, how exactly do you handle the logistics of handing cards over to 2k players and getting them back? Or do you want wizards to check the authenticity of tens of thousands of cards every event? All the above is completely unrealistic, unlike Richard's take, which sounds much more doable.

Sure, not when it's still thousands of people, but it wouldn't be that big of a deal when you get to the top 8 (also as a kid when I thought it was like that I didn't think they'd get to take the decks with them). Anyway, chips on cards is as unrealistic as wotc giving out decks for free, but with more downside for the regular player.

No need to imagine, that's what happened. I hardly see how the guy could have provided 4 genuine copies of Ragavan on the spot, unless someone was willing to lend him. Sad but it doesn't take much effort to check your 75 cards before entering a tournament. The other players were fine so it's not a generalised issue. If anything, I do think it's on WOTC to make more effort to guarantee card's authenticity.

Haven’t watched the video but I assume “based” just means his opinion is the same as your own?

​@@jonasl9068 nailed it

​@@jonasl9068i mean, that is the real mean of based

@@jonasl9068you think that’s an own? When you think something is based of course it is the same opinion as your own 😂

At this moment you officially became the old man yelling at clouds

@@TheEvolver311 or am I the wise old man everyone looks to for advice?

@CrunchyEdiblesML nope. You're saying ridiculous nonsense like Gen-Z has to much social anxiety to show up at the lgs. If they want to they will, we have video game tournaments at my LGS also and its pretty much all Gen-Z kids showing up for those.

I kinda agree (i fall into this demographic and would rather just play fortnite or arena or something)

Cool story m8.

Exactly! I work my ass off and enjoy the fruits of my labor. Very cool story mate

My last box of wilds of Eldraine had 12 Mythics including a bunch of animes. Like smothering tithe. Spent 300 out of that paycheck.

@@PhyrexianFleshgorger cool

I’d actually play pauper if they did that

Magic isn't a game designed for 6-7 year Olds lol.

@@TheEvolver311 didnt stop me or my brother from enjoying it at that age :p Edit: not like we knew what we were doing realy

My solution to the fake Ragavan question is to set a legal limit of proxies in sanctioned play - for example if you have a 60 card deck, you can have up to 4 cards that aren't printed by WOTC. It would decrease the demand for convincing fakes and would reduce the cost of tournament decks. It encourages buying the real cards for high level play to avoid getting randomly DQ'd

Fun dtpry regarding the dangers of improving the quality of fakes-in the mechanical keyboard community, an imitation brand of key switch and cap manufacturer got so good that people started preferring the fakes to the reals. They set up as a legitimate brand and kept developing their tech. Obviously, mtg printing can't go the same way but if someone were to R&D their own print method to create believable fakes people might start to prioritise playing fakes instead of legit cards in casial settings Finally, my 2 cents on the fishmail idea of event decks - instead of doing a competitive format deck drop, WOTC could reprint old event decks or classic duel decks. Less time sensitive, a known quantity by the players, and a luxury item so they don't need to worry about pricing them 'fairly'

The point about event decks was to help newer players into the game selling them outdated nonviable products doesn't sound like a great way to get them to stick around.

Renting the venue is expensive

@@TheEvolver311 Not enough to justify what we as players have to pay to just walk in the door. They make enough in profit, we should not be defending them.

@averageplaneswalker3461 Most events barely make any money. They get most of their profits off of selling items to people on sight. The reality is that all the other expenses involved in traveling to an event have increased and they can't run an event at a loss to make up for that fact.

@@TheEvolver311 Negative, again stop defending this BS. Did you ever go to big events 10yrs ago, 15yrs ago? If you did then you would know you paid for events and cards you wanted, you didn't pay just to walk into the event. Saying that outside expenses is what's to blame is very irrational. I'm not saying you're wrong with how "Greed-flation" has got out of control by any means, but to say that Hasbro/WOTC isn't to blame for this is wrong.

@averageplaneswalker3461 you didn't go to big events 10 or 15 years ago to do anything other than play. The current "Commandfest" style events didn't exist it was all competitive events so you were not doing squat unless you were playing in the event or playing on the floor. Organized play event have been trending down year after year since 2015, it isn't some new thing it's a wave of players coming to grips with understanding they are not good enough to top 30 let alone top 8 and shifting into more causal play. I've gone to competitive events from 1996 to 2018 pretty regularly and people just didn't go without expecting to pay to play in the event. Not to mention 10 to 15 years ago the vast majority of events were not held by WotC it was all 3rd party SCG, TCGplayer etc..and they stopped because it was a big loss of money for them.

No he should have been disqualified it was the Top 8

@@TheEvolver311 Exactly because that was top 8, it was bit too late. Previously, yes, absolutely. At the highest level of the game, only skills should count.

@@MrJakubxXx the rule states its a DQ if he wants to play with proxies cool do that at the kitchen table. These things were verified fake rather quickly by the judges so....I'd maybe believe he didn't intend to proxy them if his entire playset wasn't proxies, that would mean a vendor at the location was just selling proxies 100% which I doubt that seriously.

Too many players, too many cards. Some fakes can only be reliably identified using a jeweler's loupe or weighing the cards. Do you need every player to unsleeve, hand over and resleeves their $1k deck every tournament? Besides, judges are rules expert, I don't believe spotting fakes is part of their qualifications. That just doesn't sound realistic. Plus what's the point? At the end of the day, playing with a fake doesn't provide a competitive advantage. Do your due diligence, make sure you don't come with fakes. And if you do, don't complain when you get caught and DQ.

@@guico33 Honest question - if the judgest aren't able to spot fakes, then who determines whether a card is a fake or not? Someone there should be an expert, no? And look, players aren't necessarily experts at spotting fakes either, and spotting fakes - especially with newer Magic - takes a lot of experience and knowledge. Sure there are some well-known methods for older cards (the light test, green dot test, bend test, etc.), but those don't apply to many of the newer sets. With many new sets, the paper and print quality can vary quite a bit, even between SKUs in the same set. The ink can be different, the paper can be different, the paper CORE can be different, the weight of the font can be different - they even smell different. Combine that with improving conterfeits - it really takes a lot to truly spot. I agree that having every player check their deck isn't realistic, but I also don't think it's realistic to expect them to adequately self inspect. And the whole point, to me anyway, is that it's really shitty to get DQed from an event for something that, as you accurately stated, gives no competitive advantage. I would think it would be better to try and come up with a way to sort through that before you get halfway through your top 8 game. Perhaps they only check the top 8? Or maybe they simply provide an authentication expert on site and players can voluntarily submit their deck for a fake check beforehand. If it checks out, that deck/side board is good for the rest of the tournement. If not, they have an opportunity to try and replace the card in question before they spend all that time and effort in a tournement. And any player who hasn't gone through that check would be subject to a mid-game check and potential DQ. Even then, you're not wrong that it presents logistics problems. What Wizards really needs to do is reign in their card quality and make it consistent, and probably look into some sort of micro authentication methods. Micro authentication is a really fascinating field and there are all sorts of really ingenious, simple ways to essentially "brand" something in a way that is subtle and unique. Maybe they have unique identifiers for each set, or even each print run. My understanding is that some such method was used on the 1/1 One Ring - the grading company called Wizards and somehow verified that it was real. They'd still have to internally keep track of those and have someone on site who could check, though. And I guess that doesn't really help STORES know what's legit, unless Wizards has a way that stores can verify authenticity with them. But at least having someone on site to check can help players from something as shitty as a DQ in the top 8. Of course, all of this costs money which means it probably won't happen with current leadership. I honestly think it's in their best interest to come up with SOME solution. Wizards wants these tournements to promote and sell the game, but if their own issues with quality make it difficult for stores and players to spot fakes, and that winds up getting people tossed out of tournements, I don't think that looks good for the brand. But hey, maybe they really don't feel like the tournements do much to sell product, so maybe they won't ever really give enough of a shit to do anything.

I will never understand people trying so hard to force the @ finance is more important than skill @ mindset that a lot of the community have. I get its a sanctioned tournament, but then it's literally just a matter of money. Afford the 900 dollar Meta decks in eternal formats or cry about it...

Magic the Gathering has always been a luxury hobby, always.

Wait you want to bring in new players by selling them products that are invalid to play in any other format 😂

Masters sets don't inject new cards into formats they only reprint reviously legal cards

@@TheEvolver311whoosh

@@burnsboy101 not whoosh at all, go look what either Maro or Aaron Forsythe said about why they couldn't do this with Modern and you'll know why it won't happen.

@@TheEvolver311 you missed the whole point of the original comment just to sound smart

Saffron Olive will care when AI music inevitably becomes a thing

Respectfully that’s only one specific format. Doesn’t explain how every format essentially loses player base except commander or cube if you count that

Thats why I specified my format but I think it has to do with standard too. There is something in the way they design cards that makes losing not fun. Commander players ban cards within friend groups and cube players hand pick the cards in there cube so Id say it still does apply in a way. The only formats that are 'growing' are formats where there is a custom ban list.@@jamesgreenwood1703