We all knew this was coming…inflation and cost of life isn’t a joke! At these prices there’s no space or money for average.

Oversupply of new and used machines. After the pandemic, people are looking to dump their "hunker down" toys for "get out of the house" vacations. If you follow the local classified ads for pinball machines, they aren't moving like they did a few years ago. Prices are high as people expect to get pandemic prices. Just like housing, no one wants to admit it when the value goes down.

Bought a LE Transformers for $6500(US) in 2012. Prices are crazy now

Like a lot of hobbies these days, the cost has driven most people out of ever even getting into it. I bought a decent shape Judge Dredd pin over a decade ago for $1500. Now, forget it for anything decent even close to that price. Sad.

Venom was chosen to coincide with the upcoming movie release. So they likely got the license at a great price.

I'm actually buying a Venom LE - which will be the first Stern LE I've bought new, purely because I think the game looks completely awesome - fast, furious and flowy as hell which is just what I'm looking for. I've got a Halloween CE, I have Scooby CE on the way and I also have a Valhalla and an Oktoberfest (both games are soooooo good) - and this video pretty much sums up everything I've felt about my Sterns compared to my other manufacturer pins. My AP and Spooky pins in terms of value really put my Sterns to shame. I'd also add - I'm actually not terribly happy about shelling out this amount of money for the LE, but given that I had to sell a machine to fund it (and to make space), I'm basically paying a little more cash for what is essentially an "upgrade", as opposed to buying it outright. Without that - there's not a chance in hell I'd pay 20k (Australian dollar) for it. What really grinds me is that you don't even get things like a topper with a Stern LE - and if history is anything to go by they'll be asking a kings ransom for that too. Just crazy...

My biggest issue with the prices is that these pinball companies are charging a premium price yet put out basic machines. Unlit scoops, unlit troughs, unlit back end of playfield, no protectors, basic lights, substandard speakers & sound, and so much more. These leave it up to the mod market to make their machine nice. They charge thousands for a couple additional ramps and features that literally cost a hundred dollars. I always mod out my machines but get angry because a lot of the mods should already come on the machines ESPECIALLY considering the price. Let’s look at it from a business stand point..how many $1 plays do you need to pay for a machine? 7/8k and that’s not even considering all the maintenance that is required during those 7/8k in plays. I see a sort of reconning coming for pinball manufacturers. They are doing well bc there is enough people like me with money to buy these games. What happens when we are gone and a machine cost 15k for a pro model and 20-25k for an LE? Pinball will eventually price itself out of business possibly

There are 2 things at play here in my opinion. Price AND value. That is a bad mix. 1. Even if I loved Venom, I just don't have the money. The price is too high. 2. Even if I were a millionaire and had the money, I still don't think it's a great value. You can have all the money in the world and still feel ripped off.

Yeah, code is one thing definitely going for Spooky and imo their after sales customer service is great as well

Nice balanced view. I can't see suppliers keeping the prices this high forever, unless the hobby has another growth period, but I think the last one was Covid. As I'm guessing most are going to home use these days, if they were going on location then it is a business model, how long until that machine pays for itself then starts to make profit? I can appreciate the cost that goes into these, and with any business the quality to cost is going to be a balance. I'd love to do a limited run of machines one day, but its not a simple area with all the checks and approvals to sell electronic items it would be a minefield and have to be factored into the costs.

Because of this very reason, I'm probably going to get a Valhalla as my first newer machine. I'm very impressed by AP, and spooky at the moment.

That’s why I stick to Virtual Pinball.. Low Maintenance, Low Cost, & More Versatile.

These machines IMO should be 7K MAX for premiums. I just cant justify 9-10k for a premium (pros are just meh for me) CC Remake is very fun and its one id buy in a heartbeat from CGC

Pricing is out of control. It’s all fuelled by Sterns greed. I only know one person now buying new in box machines, when I used to know 10. Stern is fuelling it but because of that everyone else is getting in on it and pushing up prices… even Homepin! CGC are the only company trying to keep a lid on it. But how long for.

My first machine was Star Wars Home Edition (Comic Art). I still think it might be one of the best options for a total newcomer to pinball. It's got a nice, fast fan layout with a great "death star" shot. The rules are very easy but accomplishing a "Super Bonus" by completing every mode is still a good challenge for experienced players. It has the simplicity of a 90's game with the low maintenance of a new game. They can be found used for under 4K, so not a bad option for people on a budget who want to learn on a real machine.

Monopoly = bad. Competition = good. Nuff said

Stern cooling fans aren’t cheap, Gonez explained they have to cool a game in a Laundry Mat up against glass windows in Arizona Sumertime. I would never remove that factory fan because of sound. Turn the volume up while playing you will never hear the fan!!!!

Stern make the ‘best’ pinball with some SERIOUS caveats in a small market. Change is coming and Stern isn’t going to like it. The one company that can utilise an economy of scale, doesn’t. The passion to make the best pinball they can has long gone; profit at any cost?

Good discussion. I think it will come down to supply and demand issues. Until the demand dies down, the market won't even out. I think the price hikes will cool the demand and sales will go down, especially since viable alternatives have been getting stronger in the past couple of years. I'm glad to see more viable competition. It's good for pinball.

Stern Pinball games are all shot driven now. No pop bumpers to be seen anymore as well as playfield toys. I think the reasoning behind is more the operator side of things, you don't want a game breaking down every couple of weeks. I've played a Spooky Halloween, god awful to play, no flow. Gee it looks pretty, be a nightmare to fix. I'm guessing more mechanical stuff on a playfield, more crap to fix. Like Cary Hardy said about Venom, it has to be software driven due to the lack of playfield and fan layout of it. I'm sure it will be a fun game when it gets to 1.0 code. I think that's what people are crying about right now is the fact you have a barron playfield and it costs more than, say a Godzilla, which is still relatively new in comparison.

I love having a choice of different companies to choose from with purchasing pinball machines! i feel like the best value for the money-brand new would be a pinball machine from spooky!

Really good point @ 22:00. When money became tight, the pinball market became saturated.

I'm so sad, im just now discovering this hobby and i really want a godzilla table but I don't think i could ever afford something like that

I agree Gonzo, i am 57 and didn’t buy My first machine (Pinbot) until 2020. But I am hooked, since I bought a AFM, Godzilla, Tron…. Sold AFM to get Pulp Fiction LE. Selling Godzilla to get the Big LEBOWSKI or EJ..

The tide is turning for stern, I bet they have already had a meeting what the next step will be with so much other choices on the market.

I was on a list for a Jurassic Park Premium for 22 months.Just got an email that my game was ready. It want up 2,000.00 so I told them to keep it . Stern has been shipping games out,where the glass is so tight,that many owners have purchased special suction cups that glass professionals use to handle glass,to get the glass out. Removing glass is not my favorite thing to do,I couldn't imagine having to wrestle it out every time I need access to the playfield.

Go on holiday for a few days and suddenly you’re sporting a 1970’s photofit tash.

I can't believe the cost for just one pinball machines these days. Thanks for sharing your information etc.

I totally agree last 7 years all stern pinball machines. Been stripped down especially the pro all plastic stern

Thank you, somebody needed to say it. I think also part of this has to do with licensing fees they pay Disney a fortune for the Star Wars and marvel themes. I’m holding off on a purchase till I hear what’s coming out next year though I’m considering pulp fiction for sure.

Excellent as always. Loving the George Michael 90's Tribute Face Furniture 😎....On a serious note sad to see Electric Circus in Nuneaton to close the doors Sunday. 😪

they would sell SOOO many more if the price was around 5k !! I would get one 4 sure. I think even my buddy would break his life savings piggy bank to which I have no clue the amount, but he was shopping for 3k machines. He searched for YEARS... religiously... all crap machines not worth a couple packs of hot dogs

American Pinball and Spooky have insane value in their games. I wish American in particular would do better with their themes. Galactic Tank Force has a lot packed in it, but it’s not on anyone’s dream theme list. CGC is also an insane value for the price. Pulp Fiction is packed for a single level game, and it’s half the cost of a James Bond 60th.

Rich are getting richer, maybe this just means a shifting demographic of buyers rather than fewer sales. Less sold, but for a much higher price and with a greater profit margin. I could just about justify a game a year at £2-3k, but £7-11k just pushes me away and into other more accessible hobbies. It’s a shame too, as there are some great people and it’s a fun thing to do.

My local barcade does half price games every Monday. Awesome set of machines. At 50 cents per game, I’d have to get 20,000 games in just to break even in playtime on a $10K pin compared to the price of the barcade. Can’t justify that to myself

Spooky is cheaper, but the build quality and QC off the line is much worse than my Stern and JJP games. It's a trade off. Where Spooky is killing it is the code updates on Scooby and how its loaded with RGB. Stern for some reason isnt using many RGB so the light shows suck compared to Scooby. Need to remove the middle man so the UK can enjoy pins at a more reasonable price

GREAT video! STERN'S BOM stays the same and PRICE goes UP! JUST GREED, PERIOD,

I got NIB Rush and a CCr in the last few months. I’m done for a few years unless they actually do that He Man, and then I’ll do hand stuff on the street corner to earn the extra money 😂. I own 3 CGC’s and 1 Stern. If it wasn’t for the theme, Rush, I wouldn’t have any Stern’s.

I’m just a bit upset because I didn’t get into pins until this year. Picked up a couple System 11’s for now. Perhaps I can get something newer in the future.

Great call out to TNT Amusements at 6:05. I try to get everything from Todd. He knows so much about pinball.

I agree with what your saying. Spooky is on a continuous improvement journey and I hope they stay the course. Halloween gets its fair share of hate but after the latest updates it’s really come a long (much deeper then it gets credit for IMO) way, and there’s still more to come. Ultimately feel like Halloween (well kept/examples) will boomerang and a few years from now will be sought after, but its worked out well with so many folks dumping them to get a fantastic deal on a low play/HOU machine. Not to say its all unicorns and rainbows, well aware Spooky machines (Halloween) have there issues no doubt, but bang for buck, and with Stern/Jersey Jack prices where they are the topic of other viable options is right on time. Keep up the good content 🤙

I have bought a new Stern Transformers LE in 2012 for about 6700. I also own a HUO Lord of the Rings (bought for 3300 euros) and a addams family (bought for 1800 euros) I have not looked at the prices since that day. I recently was back in the market because i wanted another one for the first time in years. I was shocked to see that a LE Stern would cost at least double that of what my Transformers cost back in 2012. Yeah i know price inflation, but Double the price in 11/12 years? Also the old machines are expensive as hell. Even the shitty ones cost 4 or 5000. How can people with normal income buy stuff like that anymore? I am not surprised the new ones aren't selling that good.

You're absolutely spot on.

Venom isn't selling because it isn't very good. But even good games are in stock and now Stern is doubling their output. The prices are too high. I got a Godzilla LE when it released for less than a Premium Venom is now. Pass.

Great video and a great continuation of Cary's topic. Coys here from Texas. Gave ya a follow anyway of course. 🤜🤛

I would love to see a Superman, Fantastic Four and Doctor Strange themed new pinball machines.

I definitely agree at today's prices and the cost of living (no raises here!). Venom will be fun to play on location, but I can't drop $7,000 to $10,000 (yes, a frequent Yankee viewer) + on Venom. I don't know how it makes any economic sense in UK with the inflation and middleman there. Holding out for an Evil Dead/Army of Darkness Spooky entry (or maybe a Multimorphic; maybe a CGC remake or used Rush or Deadpool).

I was able to buy a WOZ and Hobbit new, but ... nope, I'm priced out now - not only have they risen ridiculously fast but my expendable income has not. I'm an ex-customer, not much can be done about it.

While I don’t expect stern to lower prices, i was thinking with Stern in their new factory can at least prevent new price increases through economies of scale.

Good Video! Maybe all the other companies combined could be viable alternative if you get pins from each. But American Pinball has 1 new title since 2020, Pulp Fiction will be well into 2024 before people get pins with the run finishing who knows when, Spooky only launches a new title every 18 months……. Realistically Stern is still the king for volume. The LEs are probably still selling as much as they always have. They just have gotten greedy with 1000 LEs instead of 250 or 500. Dealers having inventory is a good thing for all companies.

People don't have money to pay there bills never mind spend thousands on a toy.

I own a newer JJP, a CGC, and a few Sterns. IMO, Stern's build quality is by far the worst of the three. Their playfield printing looks like crap and the playfield clear coat chips all over. The cheap metal rails they use often just bend. Working on them is also awful, as their operator settings menus are terrible, there is no service outlet, and they don't use glide rails or anything like that. Stern's light shows are also the worst. How is it that they aren't using full RGB LEDs at this day in age? What Stern has done well is that they've hired the top-tier players to design and write the rules for their games. Elwin's designs and rules, as well as RayDay's rules, have really elevated them. The other manufacturers have been very inconsistent on this front.

I suppose all these Marvel comic themed games have been a good earner for Stern. I'm not into them and many others won't be so although the price is an issue and all the new games upcoming a factor maybe they've done the franchise to death. Great channel /Great presenter.

How much does a pinball machine actually cost to make from the factory

If you can find a space that works, it's a good time to be an operator.

I was prepared to buy a venom LE and then saw the game, and switched my $1k deposit to a FF premium. Kinda regret not getting a FF LE but will mod the premium with EL and voodoo glass… and make it almost as good

At $12,000 AUD for a Venom Pro the Jurrasic Park Home Pin at $8,500AUD is surely a better value option. Better theme, layout and price. Sure it doesn’t have insider connected and the LCD screen is small but what do you really need at home as a first time prospective buyer like myself. In any case it’s all hard to justify with the wife at any of these prices.

stern should start a classics series remaking older games such as twilight zone, Adams family, Indiana Jones, fish tales, whitewater, etc produce 1 a year. 2 versions prem and limited and have selling points us 6k and the limited u8k. be like cgc put in some more code. qtys like 500 for limited and 1000 for prem. why has venom failed so far to sell big numbers maybe people sick of the marvel cartoon themes if you put 4/5 last stern together they would mix well to say compared to a pulp fiction that would sit perfect in a corner by itself a showpiece. I am in Australia and costs are getting higher. imagine if Haggis could produce more with the quality they produce and if they could sell 5k of machines price would come down and have a amazing build quality. CGC take too long to produce they should be announcing their next game to come after pulp already with time to announce to make

The largest corporations tend to squeeze the most.. shareholders to please.. spooky family owned

Nothing shoots /feels like a Stern!! Both James Bond Machines are absolutely incredible!!!!

i feel like nowadays a company should be able to make their own plastic parts in house. I 3d print @ home and ALSO, I'm a few steps away from making an injection molding machine. Already have a mill. but I'd rather try & make silicone molds & just have the backing pieces out of metal. So the mold would look like a sandwich > outer as metal, silicone mold for part definition >> injection mold that $%^& !! Could do it in house. I bet all pinball manufactures use 3d printing for prototypes ... All that for me to say WHY oh WHY do they have to be SOOoooOO expensive. I'd love to see a bill of materials to see the justification of price. Not that it would change anything caz 10k is so outside of my $$$$

I am in the market for my first Pin. Honestly I think finding a Stern NIB Star Wars LE is what I want. How negotiable are distributors? do they have some room?

Ive always thought too many toys take away from the games focus. I dont need a action figure glued to the inside of the machine to enjoy pinball. Its cheesy

they complain in the us about prices but we in europe pay +22proc tax we pay 10000 dollar for a pro and 13700 for a prem 😂😂😂😂 i see all the youtubers finely putting stern under pressure they gone to far and now problems are on the way for them finely👏👏👏👏👏

I am new to pinball (or back after years) - when I heard als MARVEL fan VENOM will come - I said wow: I will buy this machine - but when I saw the layout I was more than disappointed - so boring layout at high price with stripped down features the game is a no go! So I am back to decide between Godzilla and Valhalla. Or better Foo Fighters ???? And recommendation? Thanks for the video, go ahead!

Think you need to factor in the coding required with a lcd screen

You just count only the lcd price of the part, not the development of the content on that screen. That is the real cost, not the lcd screen as is. Also, please put some fans on the flipper coils of alien, it changes the game to a great pinball. Just do DIY fans nothing fancy needed.

You are forgetting about shipping, tariffs and then you have vat included... it isn't as big of a difference as you feel it is, most of it has to do with your government taking a bunch of your money.

Great video Kris...

Yeah but pulp fiction has no ramps

Who is the doris on the bonnet of the ford?

Try 10k+ for a new pinball machine.

I think Godzilla will be my last new buy… it’s gonna take alot for me to sell one of my other machines to make room for a new one

Im just so burned out of marvel movies and I guess that transfers to arcades too.

Stern need to place a new factory in Europe and asia

20000 a pop in some countries.

All I ask can You please leave one or two tables in your will to me when all your organs drain? LOL

Stern and JJP don’t care. They know the deep pocket and distributors will more or less always pony up for pins, so it’s a never ending cycle that I don’t foresee ending anytime soon. Slowly but surely pushing the small guy out who can’t just randomly drop $9K on a machine.

cost 9.000 pounds

I hope American puts out something good at some point. Oktoberfest is beautiful, not a good shooter. Houdini is beautiful, absolute brickfest. Hit Wheels was ok, but GTF might kill the company 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Pure madness that 10-15k for a game toy. Only filthy rich boomers can afford one now.

Get ready Stern is going to start DLC and start charging for code a better code and if that happens u will see the fall of pinball

Venom will sell, people are just waiting for the code to catch up.

Gotta say Stern games are cheaper and more reliable than Spooky, and generally have better licenses, themes. Gcg starts at 8k, Stern starts at 7k. Jjp starts at 10k, spooky starts at 8k. Yes there is more in a prem over a pro, and there are some pro games that are much less fun than prem, which of course is 9.5k. But the Pro games are still a lot of game for what you get. Toys and ramps aren't worth the extra 2.5k in my mind.

Prices aren't too high. Venom is just not an instant hit and it's a B or C level IP. How many 40 and 50 year old guys read comics? 🤔

Opposite here in the states a stern pro is cheaper than all other manufacturers offerings

I have 2 and I’m done

Don’t talk bollocks. Cgc and spooky can’t manufacture and licences quick enough to compete with Stern. This is a tired conversation since JP started.