The Fascinating Math behind Piston Extenders

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mattbatwings

mattbatwings

Күн бұрын

This is my submission for the Summer of Math Exposition, hosted by @3blue1brown
some.3b1b.co/
Patreon: / mattbatwings
Discord: / discord
My socials: linktr.ee/mattbatwings
My texture pack: modrinth.com/resourcepack/mat...
World Download: (JAVA 1.18.2) www.planetminecraft.com/proje...
Piston Animations created by @Sloimay
0:00 Introduction
0:36 What is Minecraft?
1:42 What is a Piston Extender?
2:16 Problem Statement
2:35 Extension Sequences
8:51 Extension Optimality
9:13 Extension Parallelization
11:11 Extension Circuit
12:38 Retraction Sequences
16:15 Retraction Optimality
17:16 Retraction Parallelization
17:40 Retraction Circuit
18:52 Showcase
19:45 Thanks for watching!
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Пікірлер: 1 400
@mattbatwings
@mattbatwings 8 ай бұрын
CHECK OUT PART 2 for corrections and more math! :D kzfaq.info/get/bejne/bMudhpNl0tG2d6c.htmlsi=RLGIBlMooxlgN848
@brothercuber3288
@brothercuber3288 8 ай бұрын
I am your enemy. 👿
@winwins4355
@winwins4355 8 ай бұрын
😢
@magognia1398
@magognia1398 8 күн бұрын
Is it mathematical induction?
@arcycatten
@arcycatten 9 ай бұрын
I think a more optimal way to do piston extenders for n blocks is to use modular arithmetic. ([x mod y] is the remainder when x is divided by y, e.g. 35 mod 10 = 5) [these brackets aren't required, i just use them for clarity] basically, you push the first [n mod 12] blocks ([n mod 12] -> 1), then [12 + n mod 12], and repeat until you get to n. this is actually a generalization of @abugidaiguess's method for 13 pistons. If n mod 12 = 0 (i.e. n is divisible by 12), then it saves no extra steps. But otherwise, it saves exactly [n - (ceil(n / 12)) * (n mod 12)] over what is shown in the video! some examples: 13 pistons (video): 12 -> 1, 13 -> 1; 12 + 13 = 25 steps 13 pistons (modular): 1, 13 -> 1; 1 + 13 = 14 steps steps saved: 25 - 14 = 11 30 pistons (video): 12 -> 1, 24 -> 1, 30 -> 1; 12 + 24 + 30 = 66 steps 30 pistons (modular): 6 -> 1, 18 -> 1, 30 -> 1; 6 + 18 + 30 = 54 steps steps saved: 66 - 54 = 12 500 pistons (video): 12 -> 1, 24 -> 1, ..., 492 -> 1 (that's 12 * 41, btw), 500 -> 1; 12 * (1 + 2 + ... + 41) + 500 = 10832 steps 500 pistons (modular): 8 -> 1, 20 -> 1, 32 -> 1, ..., 488 -> 1, 500 -> 1; 8 * 42 + 12 * (1 + 2 + ... + 41) = 10668 steps saved: 10832 - 10668 = 164 (that's a lot!) btw I used a computer program to generate the number of steps for that last one, so it may not be 100% accurate!
@mattbatwings
@mattbatwings 9 ай бұрын
nice, that makes sense! for all cases other than multiples of 12, this way of doing it produces a shorter sequence. funnily enough, this is actually what gets implemented in the redstone version! In game, I always forced the subsequences to line up with the back, because that way I can change the number of pistons without having to shift the redstone. notice how at 19:09 it starts with 4 -> 1 because its a 40 piston extender mind if I pin this comment? would be nice to share this info with everyone! and it could serve as a thread for more discussion about this in the replies
@arcycatten
@arcycatten 9 ай бұрын
@@mattbatwings yeah that would be awesome! i'm totally fine with being pinned :) interesting that the redstone ends up producing the shorter sequence anyway. and i'm not much of a redstone guy, so those builds you make always blow my mind, even after all the explanations! also i just joined the discord server and it looks great ^^
@ElliotsLegoCreations
@ElliotsLegoCreations 9 ай бұрын
Damn, nice funny words Mr magic man!
@deleted_handle
@deleted_handle 9 ай бұрын
0_0
@d_00
@d_00 9 ай бұрын
@mattbatwings yeeeaaahh I fel smerter that Matt it took me like 1 sec to figure out this anyway I hope this little mistake didn't make this video feel less professional, since you could have made a program that tested all possibilities, knowing that there is a finite and small number of them for a 13-long extender. This way you could have seen that this method was more optimal. no worries though, you can't be the best at redstone computing and door making.
@youtubeviewerxx
@youtubeviewerxx 9 ай бұрын
It's so cool that #SoME3 is getting some really creative entries even from the channels you wouldn't expect to join.
@TyphoonBeam
@TyphoonBeam 9 ай бұрын
This is the second video I've seen on that, but the first I've actually watched and I have no idea what it is. (the other being mate in Omega, the chess one)
@shauryagupta3644
@shauryagupta3644 9 ай бұрын
@@TyphoonBeam It's a yearly competition organized by 3Blue1Brown (a yt channel) to support smaller educational and other math related creators
@burningnetherite4206
@burningnetherite4206 9 ай бұрын
What’s SoME3?
@deweiter
@deweiter 9 ай бұрын
@@burningnetherite4206 Summit of Math Education is competiton to foster the creation math content online. Anyone could join competition until 19th August. Now you can't join as a participant but you can still join as a judge
@nightytime
@nightytime 9 ай бұрын
@@burningnetherite4206third edition of the summer of math exposition
@Starwort
@Starwort 9 ай бұрын
For the record, short (1TP/0TP) pulses will also retract blocks, *if* the block was in the extended position when the pulse was produced - so can also be time-optimised in that way
@PCHSwS
@PCHSwS 9 ай бұрын
Which is what every single demonstration after that explanation uses. So yeah, that's some crucial information.
@hunorfekete7413
@hunorfekete7413 9 ай бұрын
i was gonna say that
@LineOfThy
@LineOfThy 7 ай бұрын
Thing is the system measures time in extensions/retractions, not in tick speed.
@hunorfekete7413
@hunorfekete7413 7 ай бұрын
@@LineOfThy that is because as far as i know a 0/1t pulse still takes 2t to move the block
@LineOfThy
@LineOfThy 7 ай бұрын
@@hunorfekete7413 Ye but it's still one extension/retraction
@ifroad33
@ifroad33 9 ай бұрын
I feel like this is exactly the type of video that 3b1b loves to see with this SoME. I love how gaming communities can go together like this with the math community.
@niklasschmidt3610
@niklasschmidt3610 9 ай бұрын
In the case of minecraft, all the people that are serious about redstone builds (talking about "technical" minecraft players) are on the smarter side of the gaming community and are not afraid of crunshing numbers and investing more time doing math about the game than actually playing it. I always like it, when I catch myself calculating growth of supplies, output of farms, speed of a vehicle, damage over time, and so on, in the middle of a gaming session 😅
@niklasschmidt3610
@niklasschmidt3610 9 ай бұрын
Looked at the profile of the video creator just now, and in fact, it is not a math guy doing minecraft, but a minecraft guy doing math 😂 Technical player right there.
@viewera
@viewera 9 ай бұрын
As a math nerd and minecraft fan, I am very happy with this video
@ME0WMERE
@ME0WMERE 3 ай бұрын
haha, the minecraft community (specifically the redstone community) is intertwined with the maths community. There's just too much overlap for it not to be the case.
@rohiem7554
@rohiem7554 9 ай бұрын
For a 13 piston extender 1 , 13 -> 1 is more optimal than 12->1, 13->1. Further for a n-piston extender rather than iterating 12->1, 24->1 … n->1 you can simply do (n mod 12) -> 1, (n mod 12) + 12 -> 1, (n mod 12) + 24 -> 1 … n -> 1
@rohiem7554
@rohiem7554 9 ай бұрын
This saves you floor(n/12)*(12 - (n mod 12) total steps on the extension. Correct me if I’m wrong but this is provably optimal
@profx33
@profx33 9 ай бұрын
@@rohiem7554 now prove that this is the fastest :D
@rohiem7554
@rohiem7554 9 ай бұрын
@@profx33this method optimizes the number of piston extensions, however it can still be run in parallel so asymptotically it would take the same amount of time per extension as the method proposed in the video, simply with fewer extensions hence less time. Additionally the use of zero tick mechanics can be used to improve the time between piston firing.
@peterbullard8040
@peterbullard8040 9 ай бұрын
13->1 does not move all the blocks. Remember there is iron (or some other block) in front and the index of a piston is equal to the number of blocks in front of it. Pistons can only push 12 blocks, so piston 13 can’t activate since it has 13 blocks in front of it.
@elliott2501
@elliott2501 9 ай бұрын
@@peterbullard8040thats why they activated 1 first.
@abugidaiguess
@abugidaiguess 9 ай бұрын
for a 13 piston extender, you can just do 1, 13 → 1 saves 11 extensions, and should be fairly simple to generalise up until 24 at least edit: as a few replies have pointed out, it actually doesn't really matter which piston is extended first. i just happened to choose 1 in my head edit 2: wow okay so it turns out the method i thought of has since been generalised by the pinned commenter (who actually called it "@abugidaiguess's method"!) i honestly didn't put much thought into the comment beyond the specific case for a 13 piston extender, so i'm really glad other people did! :D
@AWigglePig
@AWigglePig 9 ай бұрын
Came here to say this.
@Humulator
@Humulator 9 ай бұрын
This
@Eivindhamre
@Eivindhamre 9 ай бұрын
I was thinking 12, 13→1 which works basically the same way
@kajatoth9151
@kajatoth9151 9 ай бұрын
I had the same idea only just starting from the back. (12,13→1) Edit: eivindhamre3026 wrote the same thing 30s before me
@Eivindhamre
@Eivindhamre 9 ай бұрын
@@kajatoth9151 too slow
@sammyuri
@sammyuri 9 ай бұрын
A detailed analysis of the optimal extension sequence: Consider the total cost of an n-extension. We can consider the total cost to move all required blocks 1 block forward, 2 blocks forward, 3 blocks forward etc. separately, because each extension pushes a subset of the pistons/block which have all currently been moved forward the same amount of times (i.e. it is impossible to simultaneously push two pistons that have moved a different number of times each, because there will be an air gap in between). The first set of blocks (that needs to be moved forward once) has size n, then the next set (that moves forward twice) n - 1, then n - 2 and so on until there is only 1 block that must be moved n times. The kth of these has size (n - k + 1) and requires ceil[(n - k + 1) / 12] extensions as each extension can only push at most 12 blocks. So the total cost is the sum from k=1 to n of ceil[(n - k + 1) / 12]. Notice, however, that this is equivalent to ceil[(n - 1 + 1) / 12] + cost(n - 1), that is, ceil(n / 12) + cost(n - 1), with cost(0) = 0. This can therefore be expressed as cost(n) = ceil(n/12) * (6 + n - 6*ceil(n/12)). Also note that this lower bound is achievable because we can simply do the process one step at a time, moving forward the first n-1 pistons in ceil(n/12) steps, then the next n-2 in ceil((n-1)/12), etc. The most interesting piston extender math (in my opinion) is that of "hipster" extenders, which are piston extenders that extend beyond the wiring itself. This means in order to power pistons beyond the wiring, movable power sources such as redstone blocks or observers must be extended and retracted themselves. This makes the analysis of the optimal sequence slightly more tricky. Every distance extended/retracted beyond the wiring requires recursively using the distances 1, 2 or 3 blocks before it one or more times (in order to extend and retract the power source, and move the piston back 1 block), leading to exponential growth in the length of the sequence.
@amongus_pvp
@amongus_pvp 9 ай бұрын
So wait you boiled the extension process down to a function? I could be very wrong because i am dog ass at math, nice explanation though!
@sammyuri
@sammyuri 9 ай бұрын
Yes, what we care about most is the length of the sequence (not the actual sequence itself), so I defined the function cost(n) to be the length of an optimal n-extension.
@amongus_pvp
@amongus_pvp 9 ай бұрын
@@sammyuri ah okay thanks for clarifying
@viktort9490
@viktort9490 9 ай бұрын
Solution "may" not be optimal. It "may" be the case that somewhere in an optimal solution, a piston extension is used in both the moving of the 7th block and also the 10th which could make a better solution than the one you propose. I put "may" because I think you're right, but you didn't prove this "may" had to be wrong.
@sammyuri
@sammyuri 9 ай бұрын
@@viktort9490No, this solution is rigorous. In fact, what you say is true (a piston extension IS used in the moving of both the 7th and 10th blocks) - the point is that it can be used to move BOTH those blocks if and only if they have moved the same amount of times so far, or there would be an air gap between and only the 10th block would be moved. This then leads to the independence of each distance moved and the rest of the proof.
@cheeseburgermonkey7104
@cheeseburgermonkey7104 9 ай бұрын
It appears 3Blue1Brown has reached the Minecrafters
@landermortier2245
@landermortier2245 7 ай бұрын
Yeah i like both
@ncolyer
@ncolyer 9 ай бұрын
after finding that dispensers are a dynamical system I'm not surprised you've found some math surrounding piston extenders that warrants a whole math explanation vid, excited to see what you've put together and best of luck with your submission
@austinclees9252
@austinclees9252 9 ай бұрын
(This comment was made before the premiere) My guess for the video is gonna be deriving an algorithm for finding the order in which pistons need to be fired to close/open an nth long piston extender That and/or deriving the correct timings to do such
@Gekoloudios
@Gekoloudios 9 ай бұрын
​@@austinclees9252extender designs are simpler than that, my prediction is that it's gonna be about the observer + 2tick-repeater design which is infinitely expandable and uses just a clock and a timer to get all the pulses, it's a really smart design because although the inputs are kinda intuitive, the piston sequence isn't but in the end it all somehow manages to work
@NickGarcia1519
@NickGarcia1519 9 ай бұрын
Which vid was this?
@ncolyer
@ncolyer 9 ай бұрын
​@@NickGarcia1519it's just a dispenser math video, can look it up on yt
@Julian_H
@Julian_H 9 ай бұрын
The way you parallelized this is actually really similar to how CPUs are optimized. Cpus have several stages they have to do, and they used to have to every stage before the clock cycle. But modern cpus will only do one stage per clock cycle, but will run them all in parallel by starting a new instruction on each clock cycle.
@wildwyatxbox
@wildwyatxbox 9 ай бұрын
I've gotta give you props for this. This is gotta be one of the most clear explanations I've seen. No crazy music; and straight to the point, and showing the steps behind each thought and conclusion. Subbed.
@agma
@agma 8 ай бұрын
14:05 The little touch with the empty blocks accentuated by the glass texture is so aesthetically pleasing!
@anamoyeee
@anamoyeee 9 ай бұрын
The true infinite piston extender: A flying machine Edit: How did this get 600 likes? wow. If anything i thought i'd get criticised for dodging the video's topic
@davidmunizwessels8520
@davidmunizwessels8520 9 ай бұрын
Flying mashine go brrrrrr😂😅😂😅
@BA-we6bv
@BA-we6bv 8 ай бұрын
@@davidmunizwessels8520 “
@ChickenSkinFlynn
@ChickenSkinFlynn 7 ай бұрын
Frfr
@akuankka862
@akuankka862 7 ай бұрын
To easy
@breadanator
@breadanator 6 ай бұрын
till the chunk it is in hides
@commandblock1
@commandblock1 9 ай бұрын
The formula at 9:11 doesn't produce optimal results every time. Take the 13 piston extender, you could do 1, 13->1 and that's 14 pushes insted of 25
@howdeedoo
@howdeedoo 9 ай бұрын
the formula does allow for an infinitely expandable and modular design to an extender though. using the most optimal number of pushes would require different extenders to have their own different redstone circuits.
@cosmo1248
@cosmo1248 9 ай бұрын
the formula ends up being the same after parrelisation
@commandblock1
@commandblock1 9 ай бұрын
@@Drawliphant You need to 1 tick piston 1, or honestly any piston other than 13, and then extend all pistons 13 -> 1
@GhostGlitch.
@GhostGlitch. 9 ай бұрын
​@@Drawliphantyou don't need to push an expanded piston. You do a quick pulse with one of the first 12 pistons. It will push everything forward and not have time to pull it back. Then the gap created means 13 can now fire to fill that gap and then you can just go down the line.
@squorsh
@squorsh 9 ай бұрын
So I had an idea at around 8:12, and that's that the 13 block extension could be done more simply than 12->1, 13->1. I believe that the sequence 12, 13, 12->1 would also work but with less repetition. Therefore, this disproves that the formula for sequences of individual extensions does not necessarily always give an optimal result. Edit: Well it's not something unique I've came up with, but it is still true so I'll take that. Great video as always
@caspermadlener4191
@caspermadlener4191 9 ай бұрын
There is a way to think about piston extenders which I would like to share! 1. Think about the blocks being moved to be air block, instead of pistons. 2. When an air block is in a certain location, movement on the two sides doesn't interfere with each other. 3. We can look at only a single air at a time, we can simply assume the movement in the back to happen first, until the air space is filled. 4. When extending, there are N air blocks to be moved. The first air block moves N meter, and the N'th air block moves 1 meter. 5. Moving air K meter to the back takes at least K/12 piston movements, rounded up, which is written as ⌈k/12⌉. This is because air moves a maximum distance of 12 blocks per piston movement. 6. Since this is always possible, the minimal amount of piston movements for an extension of N meter is the sum of ⌈k/12⌉, from k=1 to k=N. 7. This logic works the same for retraction; the minimal amount of movements is the sum of ⌈k/1⌉=k, from k=1 to k=N, which is actually just equal to ½N(N+1), or the N'th triangular number. Personally, I think my proof is very elegant, hope this helps!
@mattbatwings
@mattbatwings 9 ай бұрын
This is the most elegant proof I've seen so far - thank you for sharing! I saw your note about winning IMO - that's absolutely incredible, congratulations!
@caspermadlener4191
@caspermadlener4191 9 ай бұрын
@@mattbatwings Thank you, but I didn't 'win' the International Mathematical Olympiad; multiple people win gold medals every year. In all of the Olympiads, half of the competitors wins a medal, and the ratio between gold, silver and brons is 1 : 2 : 3. 100 countries send their six best competitors to the IMO, so a little less than 50 people win a gold medal. I was 19th.
@Lumix32
@Lumix32 8 ай бұрын
​@@caspermadlener4191I appreciate your work to the Minecraft community and I Hope, One day, to see your name in the podium of the IMO👏
@caspermadlener4191
@caspermadlener4191 8 ай бұрын
@@Lumix32 Thank you, but I was already on the IMO podium in 2022, and the IMO is ment for people before university.
@Lumix32
@Lumix32 8 ай бұрын
@@caspermadlener4191 In every case, your explanation was perfect, even if I am not a great mathematical Person, i clearly understood It, thx
@LupusMobile
@LupusMobile 9 ай бұрын
3Blue1Brown--Grant Sanderson is one of my most watched channels on youtube. You are an absolute legend for sharing with the world the wonders of Maths and Minecraft, Mattbatwings. Thank you for all that you do; this is incredible!
@gallium-gonzollium
@gallium-gonzollium 9 ай бұрын
This is the intersection of multiple internal Venn Diagrams I have. Math, Redstone, etc. What a video! Hope your SoME3 sub wins!
@cdamerius2895
@cdamerius2895 7 ай бұрын
9:05 You can find a quadratic lower bound on the number of elements in your extension sequence as follows. Your initial state with n pistons can be represented by a sequence P^(n+1) H^n where P denotes a piston (or the block to push) and H a "hole", i.e., air. Your final state is (P H)^n P Note that both states have the same length. All your moves, i.e., individual piston extensions, will just swap P's and H's around in the state. So this means that the n holes must be moved somehow such that they appear in the even (2nd, 4th and so on) positions, by means of piston extensions. Observe that every move must take a clump P^l H with l
@Emailminecraft
@Emailminecraft 9 ай бұрын
I legit am so happy you are making these videos. You explained so much to me about computer science and maths better than my actual teachers. Thanks so much
@gorlix
@gorlix 9 ай бұрын
erm... no. but the vid is good tho i got so much satisfaction from parallelized pistons
@austinclees9252
@austinclees9252 9 ай бұрын
I’m so excited. SoME has been a great way for a pure math undergrad like myself to pass the summer. Cant wait to see how you take things :D
@ZephyrysBaum
@ZephyrysBaum 9 ай бұрын
even just a middle schooler like me!
@anon1963
@anon1963 9 ай бұрын
why math bruh it's so boring when you don't have anything to apply it to
@ZephyrysBaum
@ZephyrysBaum 9 ай бұрын
@@anon1963 frick you! Maths is the best
@uwuowo7775
@uwuowo7775 9 ай бұрын
​@@anon1963some people just find it fun.😊😊😊😊
@reesespieces5386
@reesespieces5386 9 ай бұрын
@@anon1963First of all, higher level math is beautiful and not boring in its own right. Second, there are millions of applications of many, if not most, areas of math
@shhdev
@shhdev 9 ай бұрын
oh my god this was the most beautiful math video i've ever seen
@lima7132
@lima7132 9 ай бұрын
Many people commented the extension in not optimal as you said, but I'd like to contribute with what I found: For N pistons with a delay D=(N-1)//12, the optimal sequence will be: 12->1[t=0],24->[t=1],36->1[t=2],...,N->1[t=D], where the number of steps will be N+D, with D+1 parallel sequences, each one being offset in time "t" by D too. For N=12 you can do 12->1[t=0] For N=13 you need to trigger a piston
@swies2344
@swies2344 9 ай бұрын
I didn't think you would participate SoME3 ! This was definitely a surprise, but a pleasant one =)
@culibrity
@culibrity 9 ай бұрын
This is probably one of the most intriguing and entertaining Redstone videos I've ever watched
@HedgehogGolf
@HedgehogGolf 9 ай бұрын
That's really cool! I always love seeing all the SoM videos. Yours in particular is super well editing with great pacing and great explanations.
@aaryananand7288
@aaryananand7288 9 ай бұрын
Also, I just came up with another algorithm for piston retraction that makes waaaay more sense as just numbers. Sequence(n) = 1-> n, Sequence(n-1) Which when you write it out, let's say for 3 pistons, is 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1 And for 4 pistons is 1, 2, 3, 4, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1 You basically have to reduce the number you're counting up to by one after each time you count to it. So for 4 pistons, you first count up to 4, then up to 3, then to 2 and finally just the one last piston. If I'm not wrong, this should be just as efficient as the sequence you mention in the video having the same number as the minimum retraction, but the numbers here just go together so well. Heck this even just works the same way you use to calculate the min retractions possible!
@coffeemanwantsumcoffee
@coffeemanwantsumcoffee 8 ай бұрын
10:30 twin towers
@sleepyy23
@sleepyy23 4 ай бұрын
Lmao
@rubensf7780
@rubensf7780 9 ай бұрын
The footage of you actually building the contraptions is really nice, please continue to do this
@Anaoa_Official
@Anaoa_Official 9 ай бұрын
This video unironically made math interesting to me. Your visuals are really easy to follow, I only backtracked like once (I usually backtrack a lot in videos). I like how you started simple and gradually went more complex leading to formulas. I'm definitely subbing!
@micahjacobson8533
@micahjacobson8533 7 ай бұрын
This was an incredible video, the visuals were super helpful and the math was impressive. Great job!
@TwentySeventhLetter
@TwentySeventhLetter 9 ай бұрын
Love this, math isn't exactly the _last_ thing I think of when I think of minecraft, so it's cool to see a deep dive into one of the game's most versatile mechanics!
@imwatchingasalways
@imwatchingasalways 9 ай бұрын
for a 13 piston extender can't you just do 12 then 13->1 for the extension
@huseyinemreeken3024
@huseyinemreeken3024 9 ай бұрын
You have to give a pulse, wich maked it more complicated
@imwatchingasalways
@imwatchingasalways 9 ай бұрын
@@huseyinemreeken3024 but it still would be the fastest way without grouping
@ssbmfan4
@ssbmfan4 9 ай бұрын
Glad you made this video, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this same concept. I really like your design, it is very easily scalable.
@aaryananand7288
@aaryananand7288 9 ай бұрын
Just came up with an idea for piston pushing optimization without parallelization. This is a pretty long comment, so if you don't like math, pls don't put yourself through pain by reading this. Defining variables :- total number of pistons = x (Let's say there are x pistons) piston push limit = L = 12 piston's position argument = n (each time we identify a piston, let's call it n) time/steps taken = t (t here acts as a counter, counting the number of steps taken) Note : x and L here is a fixed values while y and n keep changing based on the state of the system. t starts at zero and is incremented each time a piston moves. Math:- mod = modulus function, returns remainder of the division of the two arguments // = floor function, returns the closest integer smaller than the division quotient n to be pushed = f(x, t) = mod(x, L) - t for t < mod(x, L) mod(x, L) + ((t + mod(x, L)) // L) + L - t + 1 for t >= mod(x, L) after each loop, t is incremented by 1 (t++) I'm pretty sure this should work. If there are any math smarty-pants who wanna double check this, pls lemme know if I went wrong somewhere...
@spacefun101
@spacefun101 9 ай бұрын
The extension sequence you describe is not optimal for every length piston extender. For example, with the 13 extender, you can have any one of the pistons 1-12 fire, creating a gap, then just extend from 13 to 1. However, I think this is just as fast as the sequence you named with parallelization, although requiring more piston extensions. Yours is probably easier to wire though (at least smaller) because you can just repeatedly power the same line from the back.
@supersmiley5587
@supersmiley5587 9 ай бұрын
Funfact: retraction doesnt need a long pulse. With a sticky piston and a block on it. You can use 2 short pulses to extract and then retract
@atlascove1810
@atlascove1810 9 ай бұрын
Sometimes it's better to assume cows are spheres in a vaccum.
@kyucumbear
@kyucumbear 8 ай бұрын
@@atlascove1810 This makes me remember the science diagram of a cow's aerodynamics.
@PennyLapin
@PennyLapin 9 ай бұрын
It was fun to follow along with the maths of deriving the sequences you used. Before watching past 2:30 I thought through the logic of a fast retraction sequence and found the same logic of alternating pulls and extensions explained by your parallelized sequence! The 13-block dilemma I also thought through several avenues of how to cut the sequence, but the same philosophy of 12-long chunks was shared by your solution.
@coral3397
@coral3397 9 ай бұрын
i love this video! the editing was fantastic and i love the math behind it.
@berndl_3925
@berndl_3925 9 ай бұрын
mattbatwings and 3blue1brown crossover is not something I know I needed, but holy crap I'm all here for it O.O
@ncolyer
@ncolyer 9 ай бұрын
if only
@Mxolqi
@Mxolqi 9 ай бұрын
its not really a crossover. Its just a video for 3b1bs math video contest
@Omena0
@Omena0 9 ай бұрын
Lol
@pipipiwalopimeja
@pipipiwalopimeja 9 ай бұрын
Its not that sticky pistons can't retract blocks with just a one tick pulse, but that they toggle the position of the block so if the block is touching the piston, after a one tick pulse it wont be, but if the block is not, a one tick pulse will pull it in.
@theolimagameplays
@theolimagameplays 9 ай бұрын
Amazing video! Great editing and clever solutions!
@ThatWeirdCellist
@ThatWeirdCellist 7 ай бұрын
This helped me make a one sided stackable piston extender using coppet bulbs and I just wanted to say thank you for simplifying these things for us!
@btvoidx
@btvoidx 9 ай бұрын
Very good visuals! Sloimay made very cool animations. But I'd like to see more on retraction parallelization, it seemed quite glossed over.
@arcycatten
@arcycatten 9 ай бұрын
it’s not that complicated! each retraction of n pistons takes exactly 2n - 1 steps with parallelization, and n(n + 1)/2 steps without it
@abberant3112
@abberant3112 9 ай бұрын
This is actually a great way to introduce mathematical induction, that I've never thought of as a huge maths and redstone nerd! Ty again mattbattwings and best of luck !!
@Gee25
@Gee25 9 ай бұрын
Beautiful video! Well done!
@christophergilbert5988
@christophergilbert5988 9 ай бұрын
Loved this video! Another interesting bit of minecraft math that I've been looking into is an algorithm for generating piston sequences for a piston door of any size
@Gekoloudios
@Gekoloudios 9 ай бұрын
here's the optimal extension sequence: (I'm gonna be refering to pistons by p+n) let's say we have a 13 extender, so push limit becomes a problem your way of doing it results in 25 extensions, which is of course not optimal the optimal sequence for a 13PE would be to first power p1 and then do p13 -> p1 (14 extensions in total) this works because by powering p1 we've "freed" p13 from the push limit, and it can now push p12 - p2 now when that happens the next piston we would ideally want to power is p12, so we'd want it to not be at its push limit as you said the piston's number also shows how many blocks are in front of it, and since we're now at 12 push limit is nonexistent and we can just push them all in order (p12 -> p1) here's the sequence in case you're confused: 1,13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 (this is for 13pe) for bigger extenders here's how you'd find the optimal sequence: first of all, your sequence formula which you asked us to figure out if it's optimal or not, is only optimal for n*12 extenders so 12,24,36 etc the reason is because your sequence happens to only allow the last piston to fire after multiples of 12 so for a 24PE because it's the largest extender for which you only need one subsequence (25+PE need at least 2 subsequences) that means it's optimal the reason your idea isn't optimal for anything other than n*12 extenders is because most of the time it's wasting extensions that's why I made the 13PE example at the start of this comment... you're using 25 extensions while you only need 14 extensions, and you only need 14 because the push limit is already no longer a problem after extending p1 another example is a 14pe, for that you'd need 16 extensions, 2 of them would be to get p14 out of the push limit (those can be anywhere in the extender, as long as they make 2 gaps in the piston line which help the p14 -> p1 sequence always be out of the push limit) and the other 14 would be just p14 -> p1 another example is a 24PE - for that you'd need 12 extensions to get the p23 out of the push limit and then another 24 extensions to make the entire thing extend, resulting in 36 extensions total, which I can say with confidence is the optimal for 24PE TLDR: here's the logic for extenders of any length: you start with trying to extend every piston beginning from the one with the largest number and going towards p1, then when you find the first one that can extend, make all the ones after it also extend in order - now do the entire thing again until you reach the n piston (n is how big the extender is) this should look like the pistons extend in chunks of 12, first p12 -> p1 then p24 -> p1 then p36 -> p1 and so on... until you reach piston [n-n mod 12] at which point you should be able to power them all in order of n -> p1 for the full extension -------------------------------- if you didn't understand anything reply to this comment and I will try to explain
@redcrafted_
@redcrafted_ 9 ай бұрын
U can trust this mans word, he holds multible Piston Extender Wr's
@Gekoloudios
@Gekoloudios 9 ай бұрын
@@redcrafted_ xD thanks for the vouch
@Gekoloudios
@Gekoloudios 9 ай бұрын
@@redcrafted_ bruh I was the first to comment about the optimal sequence and people saying "um actually" for the 13pe and nothing else are getting all the likes... ffs
@redcrafted_
@redcrafted_ 9 ай бұрын
@@Gekoloudios most ppl just dont have a long enough attention span, not ur fault xD
@CraftyMasterman
@CraftyMasterman 9 ай бұрын
but spacewalker 46 piston extender >>>>
@KodeurKubik
@KodeurKubik 9 ай бұрын
Crafty!! Hi :)
@KodeurKubik
@KodeurKubik 9 ай бұрын
And btw avogadoo’s infinite extendable instant piston extender >>>>>>>>>>> :)
@kalisz9135
@kalisz9135 9 ай бұрын
It is just amazing work. I have very much respect to people like you, because you made whole video which have a lot of details and explains in easy way smart, little tricky and interesting thing
@NovaSpaceAssociation
@NovaSpaceAssociation 9 ай бұрын
This was amazeballs... My head has exploded with brilliant math. Also the piston retraction is so trippy/mesmerizing!
@wiirambo7437
@wiirambo7437 9 ай бұрын
Extending two pistions (and having one pushing the other) at the same time (in the same game tick) is possible. I uploaded a short video showing in which cases this is possible, because there are some limitations to that. I don't know if this can be used to speed up pistion extenders even more.
@kix4christ130
@kix4christ130 9 ай бұрын
Just casually scrolling through for all of the people who think they are smart and found the more optimal Extention method
@noahglimcher5445
@noahglimcher5445 9 ай бұрын
I love this kind of video, hope you will continue to make them after SoME3. The incorporation and application of mathematics into minecraft was really well done. My one minor piece of constructive criticism is that, while I could feel that it worked, the proof that you showed for the retraction being optimal needed to be completed. Thank you so much for this great video.
@kf7872
@kf7872 7 ай бұрын
Justwatched 3b1b SoME3 recommendations. Sadly didn't see this in the 25, but did see it in the comments. So came here to watch it. Again. Good job. 👍
@kyokajiro1808
@kyokajiro1808 9 ай бұрын
you cant get a proof because its not optimal, for 13 you want 12 13 12->1 which is as fast as parallel but but without any parallel use, the way you want to think of this is you want it to push 12 as many times as you can, i havent formalized exactly what you have to do to do this but something along the lines of that will result in more possibly most optimal runtime
@bimbaj270
@bimbaj270 9 ай бұрын
Your design is so clean, simple, and infinitely expandable!
@ArtificialDjDAGX
@ArtificialDjDAGX 9 ай бұрын
I see that some people want piston 1 to push the block right in front of it, and then do [13,1], but I feel like starting as close to the next chunk as possible would be a bit more optimal, as in, for 13 pistons, piston 12 pushes, then you do [13,1]. For 25 pistons, you'd do 12, then 24, then [25,1], so you always end up only doing the n->1 pushes when you can push for the entire chain, instead of having any sub-chain pushes that aren't a single push that moves 12 pistons 1 step forward to free up pistons further back in the chain. To further extrapolate: Make every multiple of 12, starting from 12*1 and working up towards 12*m < n, push the 12 blocks in front of it, and when you reach 12*(m+1) >= n, just do the n->1 push chain.
@accidentalengineering
@accidentalengineering 9 ай бұрын
This was your best video so far!
@sorrellion1414
@sorrellion1414 6 ай бұрын
This video was everything I was hoping it'd be from the premise. Very nice
@PurpleBroadcast
@PurpleBroadcast 3 ай бұрын
Thank you for helping fellow youtubers by putting the music you use in the description, well all appreciate it
@jacksonburger2081
@jacksonburger2081 9 ай бұрын
This is the best video I've seen in a while. Obviously math and redstone relate quite heavily, but somehow with the animations and explanation, it was very clear and concise. Thank you for your inspiration.
@bengineer8
@bengineer8 9 ай бұрын
Loved this! Answered questions I pondered.
@Hi_Brien
@Hi_Brien 9 ай бұрын
You did a fantastic job with this one!
@raedev
@raedev 9 ай бұрын
Very nice! Also some clarifications: • pistons don't need a long pulse to retract, they can retract with a normal single pulse. Technically you can get away with zero tick stuff to push multiple pistons in sequence at the same time but that gets very glitchy with update order shenanigans and you really don't wanna mess with that. • as others have pointed out, the reason you can't prove that the repeated steps are optimal is cause they aren't: the modular method is! • the act of sticky Pistons leaving behind a block when powered for a single tick is called "block spitting" and it was originally a bug, much like some other redstone features (quasi-connectivity comes to mind) • we technically have infinite piston extenders and retractors, though it's a bit cheaty to call then "extenders" since those are their own category of redstone tech: if you place a piston to push something that drags a sticky piston (facing backwards) with itself - such as a slime block - and then that triggers this piston to pull the other one along, you'd have a self-dragging contraption that moves infinitely until it encounters an obstacle. You can make the movement itself trigger pistons by using observer blocks. TA-DA! You have made a *redstone flying machine*! And fun fact, observers triggering when they move is ALSO a bug that became a feature! Aaaaah Minecraft...
@HomeGrownPyrotechnics
@HomeGrownPyrotechnics 9 ай бұрын
the way you have the parallel pisron firing reminds me of a smarter every day video called STRANGE but GENIUS Caterpillar Speed Trick with caterpillars that ride each other like a wave
@lmartinson6963
@lmartinson6963 9 ай бұрын
I love how this breaks things down. You're wrinkling my brain frfr.
@mec1789
@mec1789 9 ай бұрын
Very well explained. Good job mate
@ebinmemes2298
@ebinmemes2298 9 ай бұрын
the 13-piston example is best to illustrate that the 12-1, 13-1 system isn't optimal: If you trigger piston 1 first, then piston 13 has 12 blocks in front of it. the sequence 1, 13-1 would thus work the same as your sequence of 12-1, 13-1 while only adding a single piston push to the original. For something like 24 pistons, firing piston 12 first will "break off" the front set of blocks, then piston 24 can push the latter section, but then it stalls again so you need to push 12 again, then you can pust piston 23 etc. so the sequence becomes an alternation: 12,24,12,23,12,22 etc. which should end up being a lot faster than 12-1, 24-1 I've not finished the video but i saw you ask so i thought i'd post. I tried to build something in creative mode really quickly to see what i can do but realised i don't know how to pulse the redstone signal yet lol.
@theodoreastor3443
@theodoreastor3443 9 ай бұрын
Something that didnt get said here but i think is mathematically interesting is that the retraction system is just the reverse of the push system when the push limit is 1 block.
@bruhnling33
@bruhnling33 9 ай бұрын
I believe using the dividsion algorithm, n=sq+r, r from 0 to q-1, is a simpler formulation, using q=12 of course. Also, i believe the most optimal (though less simple/practical) sequence for an n piston extender is as follows: Let {12m} 1 to s indicate the sequence 12, 24, ... , 12s. Let [{12m} 1 to s, n-(a-1)]r indicate the sequence which consists of the sequence in square brackets repeated r times, where "a" is a counter (so the first time a=1, second time a=2, third a=3, and so on till a=r). The optimal sequence then, for some n=12s+r, r from 0 to q-1, is: [{12m} 1 to s, n-(a-1)]r, [[{12m} 1 to s-c, (n-r)-12(c-1)-b]12](s-1), 12->1, where "a" is a counter for r, b is a counter for 12, and c is a counter for s-1 (so for the first 12 repitions, b goes from 1 to 12 but c is 1, and for the next 12 c=2, and so on until c=s-1). In essence, this moves every multiple of 12 piston (rather than doing 12m->1) then moves the "highest" piston, which goes down by 1 each iteration. In counting steps, this video's proposed sequence {12m->1} 0 to s, n->1 has 12(1+2+...+s)+n steps. The sequence proposed in this comment has r(s+1)+12s(s+1)-12(1+2+...+s) steps, which can be simplified to n(s+1)-12(1+2+...+s) steps. In comparing, note that 12(1+2+...+s)=12((s^2)-(1+2+...+(s-1))) and see that, with the video's on the LHS and this comment's on the RHS, after simplifying we have 0?=?r-12. r-12
@nekrugderzweite8298
@nekrugderzweite8298 9 ай бұрын
Beautiful animations. Thx
@hummercatto.93
@hummercatto.93 4 ай бұрын
n < 13: n --> 1, n> 13: 1 + (Number of pistons - 13) ---> (Result of the past equation ) - 1, n --> 1 (One at a time)
@givrally7634
@givrally7634 9 ай бұрын
A few observations : 1. Extension length formula is 6*floor((n-1)/12)*(floor((n-1)/12)+1) + n 2. For retraction, two different recursive formulas are possible, depending on whether you chose 1 or 3 for the 3 piston extender. You can choose to bridge the nth gap first and then recursively bridge the next gap, on and on, or you can do it the opposite way, bridging the 1st gap, then the 2nd, and so on. Indicating relevant subsequences with a semicolon, one sequence gives 1; 2, 1; 3, 2, 1, while the other gives 1, 2, 3; 1, 2; 1. Both are the same length. In recursive notation they both start with S(1) = 1, but the one in the video is Sequence(n) = Sequence(n-1), n - > 1, while the alternative is Sequence(n) = Sequence(n-1), 1 -> n.
@wavez4224
@wavez4224 7 ай бұрын
Honestly this is a great vid, the topic is interesting and presented very well.
@voomette_
@voomette_ 9 ай бұрын
i have 0 interest in redstone and hardly any interest in math but you explain this in such an interesting way that i cannot stop paying attention. its so easy to understand because of the visuals and how well you explain everything, i love this.
@yisus.avocado
@yisus.avocado 9 ай бұрын
I didn't know I needed this video, but I'm glad I watched it, really interesting!
@Potato__Editor
@Potato__Editor 9 ай бұрын
Beautiful explanation, im amazed
@iamtraditi4075
@iamtraditi4075 9 ай бұрын
Hey, this is insanely cool! Great video ❤
@joeyfloyd4741
@joeyfloyd4741 9 ай бұрын
Nice job this gives me some great inspiration for some new machines.
@raxyl67
@raxyl67 9 ай бұрын
This video is so cool, good job !
@YOM2_UB
@YOM2_UB 9 ай бұрын
For the extender, it's better to think about trying to activate the backmost piston as soon as possible, similar to how it worked without a push limit. As it's only possible to move 12 blocks at a time, start with piston 12. Next, the furthest behind 12 that can successfully activate is 24, then 36, etc. Activate all the multiples of 12 until piston n can activate, then activate all the multiples of 12 until (n-1) can activate, repeat for all pistons in the extender. So the method for an n-piston extender, in pseudocode, looks like: let k = n while k > 0 let j = 12 while j < k { push j let j = j + 12 } push k let k = k - 1 } This sequence for the 40-piston extender is: 12, 24, 36, 40, 12, 24, 36, 39, 12, 24, 36, 38, 12, 24, 36, 37, 12, 24, 36, 12, 24, 35, 12, 24, 34, 12, 24, 33, 12, 24, 32, 12, 24, 31, 12, 24, 30, 12, 24, 29, 12, 24, 28, 12, 24, 27, 12, 24, 26, 12, 24, 25, 12, 24, 12, 23, 12, 22, 12, 21, 12, 20, 12, 19, 12, 18, 12, 17, 12, 16, 12, 15, 12, 14, 12, 13 -> 1 which has 88 pushes, while your method uses 112 pushes. It's unfortunately not nearly as neat to write the sequence out nor capable of parallelization, but it definite saves pushes. I believe this is optimal, though I don't know how to go about proving it. Though it seems @arcycatten already came up with a different solution that agrees on number of pushes, has a neater sequence, and is parallelizable.
@0Friedrich
@0Friedrich 9 ай бұрын
did not expect to watch an math video to the end. good job!
@bakshiism
@bakshiism 4 күн бұрын
I don’t know if it includes this but, you can do a 12 push for anything less than 25, then do the 24-1. This saves alot of redstone
@bakshiism
@bakshiism 4 күн бұрын
This saves 11 pushes and works if repeated
@suomeaboo
@suomeaboo 9 ай бұрын
I've been playing with redstone for the last 11 years, and only now do I understand how to generalize piston extenders. This is so cool!
@hkayakh
@hkayakh 9 ай бұрын
I saw a lot of SoME2 videos, so I’m glad this is the first SoME3 video I watch.
@user-ps2tc6pf9b
@user-ps2tc6pf9b 8 ай бұрын
Now I want to create this myself. But thanks for link on your map.
@Sebast
@Sebast 9 ай бұрын
Really loved watching this Video, pausing, trying to figure stuff out on my own and thinking of how your logic could be improved on!
@mrericwong
@mrericwong 9 ай бұрын
Giving a thumb up for the easy-to-understand animations. Subscribing for your hard work explaining complicated concepts using simple words!
@filoofox9934
@filoofox9934 9 ай бұрын
Damn man you put crazy effort in your videos! Very Nice
@bobnavonvictorsteyn9017
@bobnavonvictorsteyn9017 9 ай бұрын
bro a SOME video by you is just such a crazy crossover i didn’t even suspect could happen. it makes sense tho 🔥
@olegmoki
@olegmoki 9 ай бұрын
A brilliant explanation, i love it. The visuals are helping a lot. Yet i still can miss something from there... I actually really want to understand redstone, like how should you look at it, and seeking math is the right thing. This video kinda opened my eyes on how piston extenders work. Now, i should check more of your videos (and maybe I'll finally get smarter)
@vvvvvvvvvwvvvvw
@vvvvvvvvvwvvvvw 8 ай бұрын
The proof for the Retracrion only needs a small addition to be valid for any number of blocks: -6 is proven to be ideal for a 3 piston retraction -any extra piston adds n (new number of pistons) block movements, because every block in the old chain (n-1 pistons + 1 block upfront) needs to move back one more block each -any extra piston adds n ( new number of pistons) retractions in this algorythm, becase n->1 is added at the end of it => the required block movements and the number of retractions start at the same number and rise by an equal amount for each itteration of n, therefore both numbers are equal for any given n Q.E.D.
@jonathanettinger3104
@jonathanettinger3104 9 ай бұрын
That was great, i love MC maths an 3b1b even tho i stumbled upon this video randomly, its great that when you made assumptions that you didnt know how to prove you let it be a conjecture and not a false statement, great explanations that go through the basis of both minecraft and maths while being concize.
@nicholasd1655
@nicholasd1655 9 ай бұрын
Your clarity is poetry.
@Yoyo-ct5yl
@Yoyo-ct5yl 9 ай бұрын
Started watching in the background while playing minecraft, just for background audio, but I have now spent the last 15 minutes just watching the video, standing still in minecraft. Nice work, very entertaining, and awesome :)
@sungjailee3200
@sungjailee3200 8 ай бұрын
Optimal extension is given by f(n)= ceil(n/push lim) + f(n-1) Ceil is just rounding up after division. The idea is extend the final piston while using the remaining as little as possible. This will then produce a smaller chunk of size n-1 which we apply the same rule recursively. The final piston can be extended after ceil(n/push lim) pushes, and that value corresponds to maximal chunks (meaning always pushing the push limit) lies before it.
@cowboyeinar3593
@cowboyeinar3593 9 ай бұрын
the 1, 13 → 1 method could also be extended to always push the m first pistons, where m is n%12 (n modulus 12) when n>12. this makes it so that you push the last chunk in the beginning saving you from having to push a half filled chunck through all the other piston in the end. edit: this was written before the paralization section so with that the total time it takes is the same. although this method could still reduce total pushes.
@gregoriopescucci4997
@gregoriopescucci4997 9 ай бұрын
10:20 it's the same principle used in CPUs to parallelize instructions, it's called "instruction pipelining"
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