Can you tell me where you got the footage from?

Interesting you should make the Sherlock Holmes comparison as Sherlock Holmes discusses the mathematical possibility of Psychohistory in one of Doyle's original stories (although its not called Psychohistory its concept is discussed)

@@imbarmstrong Now that's interesting. Do you happen to remember which story?

@@ContentLitwithSimonFay it's near the end of Chapter 10 of "The Sign of Four" he refers to the works of mathematician Winwood Reade. I'm guessing that Asimov was influenced either by Reade or Doyle.

@@imbarmstrong I'll check it out. Asimov loved murder mysteries so there's a likely source of inspiration there. Though I recently read that he credited the idea of psychohistory as much to his editor as to himself.

For good and bad. I ripped through the trilogy just before the fourth book was announced in the 80s. Even though Foundation’s Edge asked the most profound question of the series, the story was insufferable. Worse, because it was the 80s, it doubled down on the gadgetry that comprised the weakest parts of the original trilogy. The publishing industry’s economic dependency on sequels damages story telling. Newer writers have taken this to extremes with premeditated quadrilogies, double-volume trilogies, nine-book arrays, and 27-book three dimensional matrices, spanning every conceivable story in the plot-character continuum. It makes me wonder if they’re waiting on advances in M-theory to take it farther.

@@dmrr7739 Basic concepts of rational examination of politics and history are great contributions and have been needed many times. First read these books in the late 1950's and watched developments in the world ring true to Asimov's story since then.

His influence in popular culture has also gone widely unrecognised. The man invented the three laws of Robotics, and also being a major influence in Philip K Dick’s and William Gibson’s books.

It helped that he was wide reading and had one of the greatest editors ever: John W Cambell. Who guided him in the foundation series and the Robot series.

@@chinotraveller5318I’m shocked that in spite of all the furore about chatgpt I haven’t heard anyone in mainstream media mention Asimov’s laws of robotics

Asimov is my all time favorite authors. I started reading him in the 1980's.

I tried reading it but it was so hard to comprehend. Mainly because the grammar and vocabulary used by in the 50s was more sophisticated so he used a lot of words I did not understand. I read the first but I had my online thesaurus on the side to help me understand better. Took me months to finish.

Haha same here, read it when I was about 15, now 30 years later still thinking about it, will re-read it soon!

it seems really lost how the book came to be. it started as short stories. then it evolved into books. then from 3 to more. the original seems to be 3. which is "one book" in itself. if you then count in the other ones it becomes another book too.

Dude, I picked up a book in middle school by accident and brought it home. I didn't understand it much to be honest. I don't think I even read most of the book either. I believe it was one of the book on the Robots in the Foundation series. And yet it fascinated me and left a small but sure permanent impression because I would have never thought that I would see philosophical commentary coming from Robots that would go over my head. And now I'm around the same age as you are and I appreciate it so much more now.

I recommend reading the 7 books in order starting with the two prequels and ending with the two sequels. Those four later books were written directly as novels and not as a collection of short-stories and are therefore easier to read.

Admittedly, "Gaia" was always poorly behaved, and "Solaris" had issues, so...maybe I should stop this practice.

I do that, but with Dune (Arrakis, Atreides, Harkonnen, Ix, etc)

Excellent theme for network naming of hosts (I've been using cats - partly due to having so many over my life - 18 + the current 3).

I name my computers versions of “vac” as in “the last question” for decades now

What do you think of the new series.

It won't. It's an adaptation and not it's own thing.

In my version, the Second Foundation are trying to evolve humanity into a civilization based on mental science…meaning humans will learn empathic communication & stop oppressing each other. I don’t see the Seldon Plan as resulting in some oppressive tyranny. I think the Plan is about an improvement over the first empire.

That would R. Daneel Olivaw, who promoted both foundations.

Only after the existence of the Mule demonstrated the capability.

@@woodswalker88 Perhaps the phrase "Second Galactic Empire" is off-putting to some people, especially after _Star Wars._ I think the psychohistorians said they wanted a specific galactic empire after 1000 years. Presumably one that keeps humankind's vigor going and benefits the lives of most of its citizens in a sustained renaissance like we've pretty much had with the rediscovery of science 500 years ago. Yeah, from the first story, Seldon said his successors would instigate a revolt on Anacreon leading to the first Seldon Crisis. I can also imagining them ramping up suspicion of General Bel Riose at precisely the right time to get him recalled and save the Foundation from direct attack. And it was a big giveaway that the sacking of Trantor spared the Great Library, which was home to the Second Foundation. But I don't think they'd share their telepathic powers with humanity. That would totally change the predictive mathematics of psychohistory, just like knowledge of psychohistory could affect ruler's and the mobs' behaviors.

Thanks Adam! I had a similar experience with Foundation in my teens to be honest. Well worth a revisit if you're considering it now.

I'm looking forward to diving deep into the other books.

I agree. It was his magnum opus bringing together the Foundation and Robot series…

I loved the two prequels and two sequels. As you said, they were written by a wiser, older, and even better writer Asimov. They were also written as novels, not as a collection of short-stories, and make for a better read in my opinion.

Cheers! I appreciate the support.

Agreed. It's a shame the fan feedback on Jar Jar was so overwhelmingly negative that the reveal as a Sith Lord had to be abandoned altogether. It would have been wonderful.

@@benbattle Nah, I think he was supposed to be the next Ewoks or Droids that kids might like. But since none of the characters seemed to like each other much, how could many of us like them in _The Phantom Menace._

Cheers Kevin, glad you liked it!

too great the void from middle class and elite class. not so much in wealth, but in day to control and influence.

Sounds like a good excuse for socialist policies

The TV show will certainly have a lot to live up to.

I would almost bet it has very little to do with the books

action packed and bordering on woke. it might suck more than let down of GOT.

We find out in one month - kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jpqBjLlmrLreZ5c.html

@@markwelschmeyer2426 Yep, it's gonna be woke BS. Might as well move on.

You have to be careful the foundation series, books does not world build until you really start to get to the third book or the prequels. It is mostly Harl Seldon just having a monolog on the fall of the galactic empire.

I didn't find him sympathic. He went through tough things and became twisted. But twisted doesn't equal sympathetic to me. Lots of people go through awful things and don't become psychopathic, and going through hard things doesn't justify hurting others. That being said, I can sympathize with people who were ready to take action to improve their situation rather than being content with a plan that one person formulated ages ago--a plan that, as you said, wouldn't even really benefit them.

@@IamCree I guess I don't see what's so psychopathic about him. He causes people to suffer, yes, but nobody gets through life without hurting anyone. The grisliest action of his that we ever see is when he kills the crown prince; but the crown prince fully intended to spend the rest of his life raping an innocent woman if he'd lived, so fuck him. I suppose Indbur died just as hard, though the description was much less graphic, but fuck him too. And we see nothing to suggest the Mule took any pleasure from either of those deaths. Working Ebling Mis to death, and at least one other person before him in similar fashion, is not something I intend to make excuses for. And when Han Pritcher calmly explains his conversion process, the violation of it made my blood run cold. He'd tell you all that was necessary and maybe even that he regrets the necessity. That requires you to accept that his ends are noble in and of themselves before you even consider whether they justify his means. But whoever holds political power is going to force you to look at the same questions, and the whole point of Foundation is that a lawless anarchy is the worst of all worlds. To my mind the only valid way to evaluate a leader is by comparing them with other available options. The 999,999,999,999 out of a trillion people who are free to form their own opinions overwhelmingly prefer living in the world he built to the one they'd had before. That by itself doesn't make him sympathetic, but it does mean I don't see anything about him so bad that it would preclude me from sympathizing.

@@aperson22222 I can sympathise with the Mule to some degree. His vision of empire building is one for which there are many examples in our history. However, the rule of the gun, by imposing physical and in his case, mental duress, is doomed to fail from the start, because it requires the charismatic, mysterious leader to be ever-present. Humans naturally seem to resist being forced to do anything by an external power, even if it is for their own good, and even if the Mule could literally change people's minds. Without him applying pressure constantly to keep the Union going, it was inevitable that it would simply fall apart, and so it did. I think it would have fallen even without the influence of the Second Foundation to speed things along. What's more, he couldn't have been replaced since no one else possessed his unique abilities (at least, no one that would wish to replace him). He could have deified himself as some dictators do, but I don't think that was ever really something he considered. He became a mythical figure and acquired a cult of personality either way, and in the end his demise only strengthened the belief in the Foundation; a loosely-bound federation of worlds working together in their own self-interest.

@@han_pritcher I guess the big question is, what would have happened when the Second Empire formed? Would psychohistory have run its course, or would the Second Foundation (whether through mentalic tinkering or just plain old psychohistorical calculation) have formed the ruling class moving forward? It’s so frustrating that Asimov never gave us an answer. But there is a wonderful book I read some years ago by Donald Kingsbury that attempted to answer that question in a pseudo-original universe based on Foundation (with punny names for many places and things ensuring that we know exactly what he’s driving at). After the Mule fell, people invented these cybernetic backup brains for themselves that rendered their minds tamper proof, and the Second Foundation used psychohistory to get the plan back on track. Now we’re a few centuries into the Second Empire, the Second Foundation rules the galaxy through math, and various disaffected factions are seeking to learn psychohistory for themselves so they can break the imperial rule by ending its monopoly. So we’ve still got the inherent instability of an empire that imposes itself on its subjects against their will. If on the other hand the Second Foundation just packs it in when the Second Empire emerges and allows the renaissance to unfold without any direction (which seems unlikely to me) there’s nothing to stop the new empire from choosing a course that will lead to its fall, same as the old one did, same as the Union presumably would have done after the Mule died. You could say that the point at which Seldon gets his Second Empire would be one at the confluence of forces that would be particularly propitious for it; but doesn’t every empire emerge in a season that is favorable to empire building? You could say that the conditions Hari chose mean the Empire will be stable for awhile, but awhile isn’t forever. And based on that introductory line about how popular the Union was after Terminus fell and the dust had settled, I can see a path to the kind of democratic legitimacy that would give that government time and space to stabilize its position too.

@@aperson22222 The Empire long Divided must Unite, long United must divide thus it has ever been. Summed up in a nutshell. As to why the cycle is continuously repeated its because after Empires reached its Zenith the Ruling Class would be become Drunk with Success, Power and Wealth gets to their Head. Hubris sets in, Arrogance sets in, Decline in Moral and Ethics. To put it simply what would you do when you have already achieved all the Power and Wealth? The temptation and self desire sets in. extreme Indulgence, Obsession to keep that Power and Wealth forever for yourself. Extreme Egoism sets in, Extreme freedom to do anything you want to just because you can. Extremism in Living it up, sex, luxury, vanity, Power to do anything you want to. No more Bottom line, No red line, No ethics, No principles No shackles. Thus has always been the Manner of how the Ruling class acts. No one must threaten their hold to Power and Wealth and Freedom to do anything and everything so long as to maintain that hold to Power and Wealth regardless of Anyone or group that dare threaten their Hegemony. No limits to what you can do because you can. No morals, No principles, No ethics, Nothing is Taboo. Because the Ruling class can as they hold all the Power and Wealth. The Ruling class would Set Policies to benefit themselves and make sure their hold to Power and Wealth cannot and must not be threatened. Forever and Immortality as close as it can get to. Rot from the Top to Bottom. As the normal population sees the Ruling class just do what they want, take what they want and make sure they are always the Winner and everybody else is the Loser and subject to them guess what happens? Society breaks down. Everyone for themselves. Do not care about anyone else except themselves. Why? Because the Ruling class sets the example. Morals, Ethics and principles is not worth One Cent but that is because its Priceless. This is why Second Foundation is about Advanced Sociologist instead of Technologist. Once a Country or Empire has reached its Zenith if it fails to get as close as possible to Utopia as it can get in Reality the Rot starts to set in. Because so long as the Ruling class do not have Morals, ethics and principles and do not become Over Indulged with Power and Wealth. The ending commentary by Azimov is apt Rationality. Its not the same as Rationalizes abuses of the Ruling class for Empire to keep it at all cost. Here comes the Contradiction. Without Power and Wealth you or the Ruling class cannot implement Utopian world as close as it can get to but at the same time If you or the Ruling class Fall to the Seduction of Power and Wealth to abuse it then the Fall and Decline of Empire or Country begins. Its how you use Power and Wealth that matters. Power and wealth in itself is neither inherently good or evil. Its how you Choose to use it. You can have and get a Benevolent Dictatorship or a Tyrannical one the same with Democratic system. It does not matter how you or the Ruling class gets Power and Wealth though what kind of Political system but how you Choose to exercise the use of that Power and Wealth. For the benefit of Most People or for yourself and your Ruling class.

Thank you, friend! Just glad you found my channel.

Yup.

Lol! Guilty!

@@ltmmunday Same

I bought the _Dune_ and _Children of Dune_ DVDs from the Scy-fy channel's series. I was hoping they would follow up with my favorite, _God Emperor of Dune,_ but they didn't.

It’s just clips from Prometheus or alien just eye candy

I didn't see the Soviet Union here, unless it's the death of innovation, vigor and experimentation ascribed to the Galactic Empire and its citizens. I do see the desire for a Second Galactic Empire as a possible analogy to the need for one-world government to ban nuclear weapons, end war, and create a sustainable civilization.

yeah...

I'm not sure which part you're referring to when you mention the Jim Parsons bit, but the others are: Jupiter Ascending, Legend of Galactic Heroes, Aeon Flux, Jupiter Ascending again, and Jupiter Ascending once again. Of all the media I reference, I would recommend Legend of Galactic Heroes the most, especially if you're a Foundation fan. They share a certain kind of procedural storytelling that isn't common in science fiction anymore.

@@ContentLitwithSimonFay Thanks. I never watched "Jupiter Ascending" but meant to do; the movie fell onto my backlog of titles to watch. Regarding the Jim Parsons look-alike, I refer to the clip at 6:03 - 6:20. From what movie or show is that? The actor, I recognize but at the moment cannot recall where else I had seen him act thus cannot go about searching for this clip without first knowing who he is. _To me_, he _does_ look a lot like Jim Parsons.

That clip is Jupiter Ascending too.

Legend of Galactic Heroes. Certainly worth checking out. It's very similar to Foundation in its mechanistic view of how things like history and war unfold.

They may have said this in a prequel that was written much later, but I think psychohistory had some serious error bars in timing and circumstances; the longer it went without intervention, the greater influence individuals might have on the social situation on a planet or wars between worlds. So although they could see how to get where they wanted to go in a thousand years, it couldn't run a hundred years let alone a thousand without a guiding hand. Thus it was necessary for the Second Foundation to always be ready to manipulate the circumstance between Terminus and Trantor. Now maybe the far side of the galaxy didn't get that attention, so the Second Empire is founded with only half the galaxy, and they have to spend decades or hundreds of years bringing civilization back to them, and who knows what state those worlds are in?

@@sandal_thong8631 I think you fundamentally misunderstood my comment. It is not in the prequels, it was in the original trilogy, the final book, Second Foundation, explicitly stated that the intent was a top down, micromanaged system with the 2nd foundation being the central controllers. It was literally fascism, just covert instead of open. That is what I am saying is a terrifying and deplorable new empire.

@@mfmageiwatch In the real world we're dealing with an international far-right movement that uses fascist tactics to seize or maintain power. The leader is to be a man of the majority ethnic and religious group, and any authority (professor, teacher, doctor, writer, journalist, scientist, public health leader, etc.) that might question the leader's statements are attacked. It also involves lying about all sorts of things and is bad for women and minorities. The Second Galactic Empire was to be ruled by a group of psychohistorians or a technocracy, a type of oligarchy for the good of all humankind, not fascism. At the time of the _Second Foundation_ stories, they said they would be resented by the First Foundation. They have about 600 years to change that, but in the meantime had to pretend to be defeated so as not to be a crutch or damper on human striving for a better life. In our world, in order to ban nuclear weapons and end war (other than calling in the national guard to stop ethnic cleansing, attempted genocide and government overthrow) we need what's called, one-world government.

I am writing a history of the Second Foundation, “Guardians of Seldons Plan”, on Archive of our Own fanfic site. I think they are the good guys.

It it’s apple, all I know is that it will look nice.

@@bensilver28 You seemed to hit the nail on the head. It certainly does look nice! Although they have taken some liberties with the story.

Almost certainly won't.

The Dune "civilization" makes no sense at all. An overall controlling religion is just a retelling of the history of the Roman Catholic Church trying to recreate the Roman Empire under their control.

Good question, but nope. I generally try to avoid using footage from movie adaptations in part because no matter how great an adaptation is I don't think it should completely usurp the imagery of the original source material. I try to balance that effect out by putting together these montages from numerous other sources. That said, I'm currently working on a series about the books Stanley Kubrick brought to screen and because I'll be directly referring to his work, it seems unavoidable that there'll be footage from his adaptations.

@@ContentLitwithSimonFay Great point. Very wise.

Legend of Galactic Heroes. If you like the Foundation books you'll like Legend. They each explore a mechanistic view of history and war in a very procedural manner.