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The Gospel of Apartheid - Professor Alec Ryrie

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Gresham College

Gresham College

Күн бұрын

South Africas Dutch Reformed Church (DRC) and the Afrikaner people it served had, since the 17th century drawn a distinction between white Christians and the apparently unconvertible heathen peoples around them. The Afrikaners identity as a covenanted people was reinforced by the British conquest of 1899-1902. In the effort to maintain a white-ruled South Africa, some Afrikaners flirted with Nazism, but from 1948 the National Party chose a different path: a doctrine of apartheid or separate development, which drew deeply on the DRCs theology. Theology legitimised apartheid, but was also instrumental in bringing it to a sudden and remarkably peaceful end.
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Пікірлер: 125
@jonadams8841
@jonadams8841 3 жыл бұрын
Dr. Ryrie is not only exceedingly knowledgeable of religion and society, but knows how to deliver his thesis in a cogent, well paced manner. Such pleasurable lectures.
@silverstreettalks343
@silverstreettalks343 3 жыл бұрын
I have just watched all four of these lectures on extremism in tandem. My dinner was late, the talk I was preparing for tomorrow is still incomplete, and midnight has just gone, but I have learnt so much even about areas of history I have long found intriguing. Enthralling, absolutely fascinating, and enlightening. Thank you very much!
@marcusdylan8390
@marcusdylan8390 3 жыл бұрын
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@harleyanderson1866
@harleyanderson1866 3 жыл бұрын
@Marcus Dylan instablaster :)
@marcusdylan8390
@marcusdylan8390 3 жыл бұрын
@Harley Anderson i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and Im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@marcusdylan8390
@marcusdylan8390 3 жыл бұрын
@Harley Anderson It worked and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy:D Thank you so much, you saved my account!
@harleyanderson1866
@harleyanderson1866 3 жыл бұрын
@Marcus Dylan you are welcome :D
@yigityargic2814
@yigityargic2814 3 жыл бұрын
If I have to describe Alec Ryrie in one sentence, he is a rare expert in "Here are some terrible ideas that are obviously terrible, but let's try to really understand them deeply as their proponents did." This makes him my favorite lecturer of all times.
@Laroac
@Laroac 3 жыл бұрын
I can't but applaud this monumentos lectures, a dissection of belief. A deep view into the structure behind the pretext. A distant observation of a particular beliefs development whilst frankly exposing the broadness of what belief to humanity as such is. Incredible work and build up, impeccable oration. Also absolutely devastating.
@hitchadmirer
@hitchadmirer 3 жыл бұрын
Wonderful lecture. What delivery.
@robertb6889
@robertb6889 2 ай бұрын
A very interesting perspective on apartheid. thank you!
@marouaniAymen
@marouaniAymen 3 жыл бұрын
Every time I watch the videos of Dr Alec Ryrie, I lose faith on humanity and btw, the talk made me sure that Israel is a clever lucky implementation of apartheid.
@mylord9340
@mylord9340 5 жыл бұрын
Another wonderful informative lecture.
@whitepanties2751
@whitepanties2751 Жыл бұрын
Alec Ryrie is interesting, informative and thought-provoking whichever Century he is speaking about.
@xhlan
@xhlan 3 жыл бұрын
Side note: Here and elsewhere the invention of concentration camps is often ascribed to the British in the Boer War, but they were actually pioneered by Spain in its (then) colony Cuba against a rebellious populace in 1896 - much publicized in the press of that era.
@marklewis4793
@marklewis4793 3 жыл бұрын
the "beware of natives" sign at 19.04 is a roadsign warning drivers of pedestrians..,not dangerous natives.
@peterharrison5342
@peterharrison5342 3 жыл бұрын
'The defeat of Cuban-backed guerillas in Angola... ' is a rather mystifying statement.
@robertlevine2827
@robertlevine2827 3 жыл бұрын
The Cubans were backing Angola's Communist government, whom the guerillas were rebelling against.
@peterharrison5342
@peterharrison5342 3 жыл бұрын
Indeed. Which is precisely why it's so mystifying.
@timothycook4782
@timothycook4782 3 жыл бұрын
Yeah the Cubans didn't leave Angola until the 1990s, so Ryrie is clearly wrong here.
@whitepanties2751
@whitepanties2751 Жыл бұрын
The Cuban backed MPLA movement (originally Communist) held the capital city Luanda and formed the internationally recognized government of Angola, so on the whole were the victors, although the rival UNITA organisation carried on resistance in a brutal war against the MPLA government in the South of Angola for years. Hence Alec Ryrie's reference to the defeat of the Cubans seems a rare mistake on his part. It is true that with the end of the Cold War and fall of the Soviet Union, Soviet aid to Cuba, and hence adventures by the Cuban Castro Communist regime in Africa ended. Hence the Angolan Civil War ceased to appear to be part of the global confrontation between between the West and Communist bloc, and became more clearly just one of Africa's many part-tribal and part-personal power struggles.
@leepretorius4869
@leepretorius4869 3 жыл бұрын
Fantastic! There’s a direct link between Calvinism and apartheid
@anpdm1
@anpdm1 3 жыл бұрын
The Old Testament is the Judaic teachings of the Torah. The direct link is with the Torah's claim of Abraham being "chosen". Christianity and Islam are Abrahamic religions that are re-brands of Judaic apart-ness aka apartheid.
@LuvBorderCollies
@LuvBorderCollies 3 жыл бұрын
@@anpdm1 Back to kindergarten for you. Islam is NOT an Abrahamic religion, not even close. Its a cobbled together random collection from various pagan beliefs in the Arabian peninsula, totally twisted parts of Christianity and Judaism. And Muhammed's own lusts which were reinforced by "revelations" from allah. Learn the truth about Islam and its prophet from Dr. David Wood at Acts17Apologetics. He uses ONLY Islamic sources to filet open and expose the truth about it.
@leepretorius4869
@leepretorius4869 3 жыл бұрын
@@anpdm1 however the main teaching in the New Testament is unity in diversity
@blogbalkanstories4805
@blogbalkanstories4805 3 жыл бұрын
@@LuvBorderCollies The kindergarten statement might as well go for you. Of course Islam is an Abrahamite religion, according to every scholar on the topic. It originates in Gnostic Christianity and shares most of its core beliefs with either Christianity or Judaism. The only real difference is the role of Muhammed. In fact, when Islam emerged, it took many Christians and early Muslims a while to understand that they adhered to different religions. As for the cobbled together part: Well, Christianity is cobbled together from millenial Jewish sects and the Graeco-Roman religion. This is how new religions start.
@michaeltowslee4111
@michaeltowslee4111 Күн бұрын
Religion grafted itself onto power then rode for as long as it could.
@henrymellard5647
@henrymellard5647 2 жыл бұрын
Apartheid was bad but South Africa today is worse
@lesterwyoung
@lesterwyoung 3 жыл бұрын
Fascinating lecture!
@julianfowler1608
@julianfowler1608 3 жыл бұрын
Excellent.
@alc100
@alc100 3 жыл бұрын
Brilliant.
@nelsongonzalez4533
@nelsongonzalez4533 3 жыл бұрын
The Boer or Afrikaners came to South Africa from Indonesia via the Indian ocean. The Dutch were the first Europeans to trade porcelain and Silk from China and Japan so did the Brits. So there was a trade war between these two gansters or pirates of the sea. If you study piracy in the Caribbean islands, it's a similar story. The East West Indies made them rich on trade and piracy.
@TheMrgoodmanners
@TheMrgoodmanners 2 жыл бұрын
Sorry bro. Vasco da gama beat you to it
@emmcee662
@emmcee662 3 жыл бұрын
Masterful
@nelsongonzalez4533
@nelsongonzalez4533 3 жыл бұрын
The distinct society... and flourished and multiplied they did. The Afrikaners like the Jews in Israel "the God chosen people"? were assimilated by the British superiority. Good land, Gold and diamond led to a war the Boar war. I didn't know that Canada was involved in that war due to her connection as a dominion or a colony of the British Empire.
@TheMrgoodmanners
@TheMrgoodmanners 2 жыл бұрын
The south African side of history that some quarters viscerally suppressed.
@TheMrgoodmanners
@TheMrgoodmanners 2 жыл бұрын
Boers are very very lucky they live in south Africa. Had they been in any other part of the continent the natives there would have never been so forgiving of their presence
@mugikuyu9403
@mugikuyu9403 Жыл бұрын
This is so true.
@RonJohn63
@RonJohn63 3 жыл бұрын
23:08 That sound a lot like "self-determination". 49:00 The problem is that apartheid could *never* be justly implemented, unless the Blacks and Coloreds also wanted it.
@johnkelly3886
@johnkelly3886 3 жыл бұрын
Naude pronounced Naw-dee, a French Huguenot name. They were seventeenth century, French religious refugees, via the Netherlands. The people who brought the grape to the Cape.
@colonelweird
@colonelweird 3 жыл бұрын
He did a lecture on the Huguenots. He does know who they are.
@johnkelly3886
@johnkelly3886 3 жыл бұрын
@@colonelweird It was not a lecture on the Huguenots. Alec Ryrie is deeply knowledgeable and a brilliant historian of religion, even if he pronounces Naude wrongly. He is right about the religious history of apartheid. I know, I lived through it. We owe an enormous debt of gratitude to Mandela and the ANC. But, the NG, the Breoderbond and de Klerk do not get the recognition they deserve, for saving the country from disaster. They are reviled by a large part of the white population, as traitors; and many young blacks see them as the enemy. Ryrie tries to do them justice.
@blogbalkanstories4805
@blogbalkanstories4805 3 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't be so sure about that. It depends on how it is spelt in French. Without an accent on the e it would be simply Nawd. With an accent one would pronounce the e like an a and stretch it.
@johnkelly3886
@johnkelly3886 3 жыл бұрын
@@blogbalkanstories4805 The way Bayers Naude pronounced it was Naw-dee. I knew the man personally. Other educated Naudes did likewise. I cannot comment on the French pronunciation.
@patrickholt2270
@patrickholt2270 3 жыл бұрын
But did the original French pronunciation survive absorption into the Afrikaaner community? I distinctly remember Du Toit being pronounced as doo toyt, not dyoo twah, for example. In English old French words have been completely anglicised on pronuncation, except for very recent arrivals.
@henrymellard5647
@henrymellard5647 2 жыл бұрын
People who were until very recently and to this day are not constraind by the same pressure will not be born raised think or act like someone who's People were under different pressures
@juusohamalainen7507
@juusohamalainen7507 2 жыл бұрын
Southern Africa is a mess today. I think separate states for different races had been a much better solution.
@hugor1338
@hugor1338 Жыл бұрын
After WW2 there was a widespread and politically influential belief that there was no important underlying difference between different populations that wasn't just a transient product of circumstances, in other words a belief in the blank state. Steven Pinker's 2002 book of that name sums up why that belief is now untenable nonsense.
@mugikuyu9403
@mugikuyu9403 Жыл бұрын
The separate states are called Europe. If any Boer wants to move he’s free to. If I was a boer I would thank my lucky star that the natives aren’t trying to do to me what my ancestors did to theirs.
@NuisanceMan
@NuisanceMan Жыл бұрын
Unfortunately, apartheid still hasn't really ended. Yes, racial laws were abolished, but whites continue to own most of the country's land and wealth because Mandela & Co. abandoned the cause as they negotiated to take power. The speaker's misunderstanding of this fundamental point in his adherence to liberal, pro-capitalist orthodoxy undermines his analysis, even though his church-centered focus is elsewhere.
@suckmyasstv9131
@suckmyasstv9131 4 жыл бұрын
I would like to cite your statements in an paper im writing. If you could give me an official title on this speech and a date that would be highly appreciated
@sprobablycancr4457
@sprobablycancr4457 3 жыл бұрын
How are you finding academia, Mr suckmaAssTV?
@michaelhaywood8262
@michaelhaywood8262 3 жыл бұрын
How and why did Eswatini [Swaziland] and Lesotho [Basutoland] become separate states and were never part of the Union of South Africa, even though the former was mostly and the latter totally surrounded by South African territory.
@TheMrgoodmanners
@TheMrgoodmanners 2 жыл бұрын
It was an apartheid trope meant to weaken Africans after 1913. The Basotho came about from a falling out btwn shaka and one of his generals and so did the Swazi.
@WildBillCox13
@WildBillCox13 5 жыл бұрын
The !Kung! are pretty cool. We of the "civilized" north seldom appreciate human ingenuity and adaptation when it doesn't involve exploitation, polluting, or oppression.
@hugor1338
@hugor1338 Жыл бұрын
I heard they were noble savages.
@nelsongonzalez4533
@nelsongonzalez4533 3 жыл бұрын
Reconciliation between husbands and wives. Between the oppressed and the oppressors... the exploiters and the exploited.
@helenelewis6661
@helenelewis6661 6 жыл бұрын
A limited and one sided presentation by Professor Ryrie of South Africa's history up to 1948 in my view. If one is ignorant about what the British did to both Afrikaners and Black people in this country since their arrival in 1795, you cannot understand why Afrikaners created apartheid in 1948. In a psychological reenactment after the horrors of the Anglo Boer War (1899-1902) - where four out of every five Afrikaners who died in British concentration camps, were children; 50% of them under age 14. 20% Of the Afrikaners (approximately 250 000 in total) in the two Small Republics, the British Empire were at war with, were killed. Not only concentrationcamps, but also a scorched earth policy where their houses, farms & thousands of animals were scorched and killed. And why? All for Her Majesties men's greed for SA's gold. The Afrikaner children who saw these atrocities and survived this genocidal war, and the first generations born from these extremely traumatized parents, were the 1948 Apartheid father's and mothers, who started the vile system of apartheid - out of a fear of survival as a group. Not only were they nearly fifty years after the war still struggling to survive, still suffering from transgenerational trauma, they also daily had to endure being humiliated by an English Press and the white English public who oooked down at them. All of this in a country where whites were far outnumbered and survival for many groups was a complicated challenge. However, even more interesting is that apartheid was actually first initiated in 1894 by the British, in name by Cecil John Rhodes with his Glen Grey Act. It was then called segregation. The Afrikaners completed the process in 1948. It changed from covert to overt racism. It is an irony that it was precisely the overtness of apartheid's racism that made the Struggle possible. How do you confront covert racism where the accused conveniently deny his feigned superiority? - like the British tend to do? Ryrie is correct that Afrikaners used the Bible and interpreted it to suit their selfish policy for survival. His post- 1948 facts are correct. But if you don't understand it from a psychohistorical perspective, you completely misses the point why it all turned out the way it did. I suggest you read Apartheid - Britain's Bastard Child by Hélène Opperman Lewis, to give you a good grounding in the psychohistorical reasons why vile apartheid happened. Ryrie is right about people using their beliefs, religion if you wish, far too often to justify their evil actions. You also may want to question whether missionaries did African people any favour. It is well known that British missionaries were front men for the British Empire. Ask the Chinese. They've experienced it too. Britain still has a lot to answer to many people of the world.
@PickledPreserves123
@PickledPreserves123 6 жыл бұрын
Modern Brits aren't responsible for post-Imperial atrocities. Britain's answer to the many people of the world will fall on deaf ears as both the Imperialists and their Victims are long dead. An apology from the British government of today would be redundant because they did not commit colonial atrocities. As a matter of fact there is not a single voice in favour of Imperialism in the British government today. I understand that collective memory can be very important when remembering the past, but I think that those who advocate for its legitimacy are simply looking for an enemy when there no longer is one. However, I can imagine that us Brits will always be seen as the boogeyman for the sins of our fathers.
@helenelewis6661
@helenelewis6661 6 жыл бұрын
Dan that the perpetrators are all dead by now is not the point. Those 'now dead' people's offspring are still benefitting from the gains of their now x-Empire. Similarly consequences of those past exploits, are still having terrible consequences echoing through many countries, previous British colonies. And just for the record the now British x-Empire is not that long ago at all! As psycho-analyst and psychohistorian Dr David Lotto quoted the old truth we all know 'My suggestion is that along with the kvell (brag or boast) of your people's virtues and accomplishments you should acknowledge the shande (shame, disgrace, sin) that is also yours."
@PickledPreserves123
@PickledPreserves123 6 жыл бұрын
What would you propose be done? A system of reparations be paid to former colonies by the British Government?Or that, (assuming that we had the ability to quantify every British citizen's personal benefit from the Empire), Britons forfeit a percentage of their wealth and possessions to the descendants of ex-colonials? I can assure you that Britain would still be the scapegoat for any issues faced by the governments of the ex-Imperial territories. I don't personally believe that every Briton, (or Afrikaner for that matter), is born with an inherited guilt, and while it saddens me to hear of British action in colonial Africa I certainly do not feel guilty for the atrocities that I did not commit. However I do agree that said atrocities should be remembered.
@uncolonizedmind
@uncolonizedmind 6 жыл бұрын
Nothing you can say absolves the responsibility and actions of these people upon the native population
@WildBillCox13
@WildBillCox13 5 жыл бұрын
Well presented. Thanks for your contribution to this forum.
@teachersikhumbuzomoyo5419
@teachersikhumbuzomoyo5419 6 жыл бұрын
Please help me with this PPT
@GreshamCollege
@GreshamCollege 6 жыл бұрын
The powerpoint for this lecture is available on our website here: www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/the-gospel-of-apartheid on the right under extra lecture materials
@coldfact58
@coldfact58 5 жыл бұрын
Has the Dutch reform Church ever apologized to the South African people for being responsible for apartheid ?
@coldfact58
@coldfact58 5 жыл бұрын
@Christiaan Baron So if i feel i can run your house better than you, Ok for me to take it from you and make you my servant?
@Hetkanookanders
@Hetkanookanders 5 жыл бұрын
Of course not, White Dutch people have to big egos
@SerialChiller1000
@SerialChiller1000 3 жыл бұрын
@Christiaan Baron Staggeringly selfish. What if you weren't white during apartheid?
@SerialChiller1000
@SerialChiller1000 3 жыл бұрын
@@coldfact58 Well said, Roy. That is an excellent analogy.
@coldfact58
@coldfact58 3 жыл бұрын
@Danny Archer Acceptable? That's news to me
@mariusmarius4832
@mariusmarius4832 Жыл бұрын
You seem to have missed the bit about the first ever Concentration Camps in the world where the British imprisonment, killed and poisoned the Boer woman and children who opposed thier rule. That will be a very interesting video.
@whitepanties2751
@whitepanties2751 Жыл бұрын
No, as someone else has already pointed out here, the first Concentration Camps were established a few years earlier by the Spanish in their then Colony Cuba, where the Spanish army was fighting Cuban rebels seeking independence.
@elilass8410
@elilass8410 Жыл бұрын
He literally did mention the boer wars and concentration camps in the video, as well as their effect on afrikaner people. you just didn't watch or got mad that afrikaners didn't get depicted as 100% victims.
@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts
@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts 6 ай бұрын
No, he did mention those.
@FinnJGiese
@FinnJGiese 3 жыл бұрын
I appreciated the Rubicon reference in the South African context. I wonder if it was consciously included with a nod to the Rubicon speech by Botha
@nelsongonzalez4533
@nelsongonzalez4533 3 жыл бұрын
The Protestants Legacy in world history. Race and religion 😂 complex and difficult issues to deal with.
@shaunryan6
@shaunryan6 3 жыл бұрын
Alan Boesak struggle accounting, embezzled, thief, liar and gaoled for 18 months. Could not keep his fingers out of the charity till!
@helenelewis6661
@helenelewis6661 6 жыл бұрын
Don, Afrikaners are definitely not expecting financial retribution. It's not about money for us. It's about proper acknowledgement by the Britons for what they did to our grandparents. To stop living in denial & trying to justify the horror they caused; which has a direct link to the disaster we currently experience in SA. The British were main players together with France in getting the Germans at Versailles to be punished and humiliated after the First World War - in fact it is generally accepted that it was these revenge conditions put onto Germany, that was the root for the Second World War. If they expected that of the Germans, why can't they take responsibility for the many disasters they caused? In so many places? (The Anglo-Boer War was 1899-1902, just for the record). But back to your question about what to do: Firstly, one of the Royals or otherwise the British Prime minister could lay a wreath at the War Museum in Bloemfontein. And secondly - the diamond that was given to Queen Victoria just after the ABW, now 'inserted' in the Royal crown, could be returned as a gift and gesture of goodwill to SA, to be sold and the money invested into a Trust for further studies by black students. Note: black students. Maybe you can present these options to all those parliamentarians in the British parliament, you say are critical of your x-Empire (though I know they are very busy with Brexit now).
@chrisshu7668
@chrisshu7668 2 жыл бұрын
South African won the Angolan war? Am I experiencing a severe case of Mandela effect? Jokes aside, Cuba supported the government and South Africa support the rebels, not the other way around. Cuba supported president Dos Santos who remained in office until 2017, and South Africa supported Jonas Savimbi who was killed in 2002. I would personally argue that one of the key factors in toppling the Apartheid was the resounding defeat of South Africa forces in the hands of Cuba and it's allies, which shook the South African government's confidence of its ability to maintain order by force.
@georgesutter3631
@georgesutter3631 3 жыл бұрын
This is a very one sided I’ll informed lecture. The Khoi Khoi were not bushmen. The Dutch never enslaved the local population, the slaves came from Indonesia. So many errors not up to Gresham college standard.
@Baltic_Hammer6162
@Baltic_Hammer6162 3 жыл бұрын
Higher education does not automatically result in increased knowledge.
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