Great insight on Peter's tone. One thing I did learn from Johnny Kelly (And Kenny also chimed in) when I had opporrunity to meet him once ( Met Johnny a few times actually, Great guy and mosnter drummer) is that Peter would in fact have two rigs set up when recording and would sometimes use a Radial or Tech 21 switcher with a Sansamp on one rig to dial it in more precisely. Also he would typically double or triple track (not copy and paste the DI) and he and Josh would usually mute the track with the most low end during mixing as they wanted the kick drum to dominate the bottom of the song and the bass guitar to sit moreso between the drums and low end of the guitars in the frequency spectrum. Even though I always kind of cringed at their mixes sometimes I in hindsight understand why (In a way lol). Also since they tuned to B Standard on normal 4 and 6 strings, hacking out most of the low end was deemed to help keep everything from becoming too muddy and mushy. I did get the chance to see Type O live once and their live mix was much more even and "full" sounding and IMO sounded phenomenal. But, Again even though I have to admit I wasn't always a fan of their album mixes I could sort of understand the intent. Plus, It did certainly give the band a unique sonic character. Great band, Great songs and sorely missed. Also, You're not wrong on your views of Rock and Metal, There are still gems here and there, But it has been declining steadily in the last decade at least. The onset of DAWs and programmed instruments (gridded and edited nauseatingly to "perfection") has certainly played a role. Plus people's perception of music as an art form has been almost completely replaced as just a commodity. Little lyrical or musical content, Very little effort in writing and arranging Almost all effort focused toward production, loudest mix possible with few dynamics, And generally just very foruliac and uninteresting Plus the industry obviously is much less interested in cultivating a band's career or growth as there's supposedly less resources to spend, Though labels, platforms, venues, promoters et al still tend to carve out more for themselves than even before (in a lot of cases) leaving musicians with even less financially than in the past. There's very little incentive in any sense to be willing to sacrifice so much, in order to recieve little to nothing in any form a lot of the time. I'm sure many will try to refute or contest everything I've stated, But I seriously doubt I'm wrong. I've been involved in two eras of the music industry, Both as a recording and touring band member, And as a writer. I was signed to two indie labels (One distributed by Sony) in the early 90's. And re entered the musical landscape again in 2009, After many things in the industry had changed drastically. And though my views are strictly my own, I do have the vantage point of seeing how things were versus how they were a few years back (I stopped in late 2016). And even though there was tons of pitfalls and bullshit in the industry then, It's not impossible but damn near to earn any lasting success or even a living now. Ok, longwimded blabbering over. Cheers Owen, Great one yet again. 🍻

I remember asking my guitar instructor over 20 years ago how to get Type O Negatives tone and he just said “I have no idea…” and he just moved on with the lesson 😂

As far as the "digitalization" of metal sucking the life out of it, you are correct. I'm a tube rack guy and a tube amp head pedalboard guy, and as painful as that is, it is the "life" in the sound.

Creepy green light.. what a bassline. Thanks for this Owen. Loved it

So glad i got to see a TYPE O live . They opened for Fear Factory . An amazing show.

Seen Pete rip out his bass strings at the end of their set. Monster of a guy.

- He used real amps to create musical feedback - Ok - He also made frets buzz -Oh no, wait a minute

Just about everything with steel stands out his tone, writing, and definitely his voice! A true one of a kind RIP 💚

One important note is that the bass is tuned BEAD but the string gauges were 110-90-70-50 so he was basically using very light gauge strings, kinda like Mark King but in B 😊

This was very accurate. Peter used hot glue to keep his DS1 settings from moving. This was the key to him. Also, on stage he used a Peavey Kilobass amp which has two separate power amp circuits. (it wasn't custom, it was off the shelf) This might have allowed him to pull off the clean/dirty channels live. I've recreated this effect with that gear, so, it's possible that you're right about that. I suspect (recall hearing) that he used the Peavey Max pre-amp in the studio which is the front end of the Peavy T-Max amp without a power cell. The Peavey T-Max amp was billed at the time as one half (one cell) of a Kilobass, so that front end pre-amp probably delivered his tone in the studio. Don't underestimate the impact of this amp on the TON sound. There's something to it. Also, he used a Fernandes Sustainiac pick up, probably two, to get that crazy sustain. I suspect that he had that carried over into his three Washburn guitars that he used toward the end. He had them built in the custom shop so it's hard to say what he had put in there.

I don't disagree that metal is dead. I subscribed! Because as long as there are people like us, we gotta keep it alive.

Nice to see Goth Broth back on the channel.

0:08 You could have called me as I took this pic of Pete's pedal board at a Carnivore (not TYPE 0) show in Essen, Germany back in 2007 where I was invited to by then Carnivore guitarist Paul Bento. The Type O stuff at Wacken 2007 - when I was a guest of my bro Josh Silver looked more complex though.

That's a huuuuge vanilla sausage. Thank you so much Owen

I am really looking forward to this!!!!!!! Long Live Peter Steele and Type O Negative, Owen bring back the goth broth!!!!!!!!!!!

Feedback wise Peter used a modified fernandes sustainer system installed in his basses. So he could control it in the studio and live since he was tied to a mic stand to sing. Also he had a bass that was made a longer scale cuz he was damn near 7 foot. R.i.p. Pete you got alot of people thru their darkest times in life showing us we weren't alone in suffering. Awesome how u didn't leave out how he was left handed and played right handed, props for that 🤘

8:33 I'm left handed and I LOVE this fact! So many teachers will say the same ignorant thing: "You need to play right handed. You'll be a much player for it. In fact, all us right handers should be playing lefthanded guitars, because picking is easy, fretting is the hard part" YOU R3TARDS! NO! Picking is the hard part! Fretting only seems hard because you're using you're far, far, faaar weaker hand! And that's not muscularly weaker; it's the hand brain connection that's shit. I know one insanely accomplished lh player who plays right-handed, and he says he thought he just didn't have good time, until someone handed him a lefthanded guitar in a shop and asked him to try it out. Not only was he immediately able to play it kinda well, but his rhytm playing was instantly tighter. Now he records rhythm parts lefthanded. Peter Steele found the über-male solution though 😃 holy shit!

This was awesome!!!! Great work mate.

You are a hero! Amazing video mate.

Very much looking forward to this one!!

Absolutely brilliant video

Good to see tone videos again! TON was always one of the most unique sounding bands

Super video! You hit everything spot on. You are correct, where are the characters today?

@circle of tone i know how much of a fan you are of type o negative and same as me im a die hard fan. i have used that pedal board pic aswell to get the peter steele tones for my bass on my music... and god damn Owen you nailed it!!! i swear you are right on point... esp the ds-1 he used the vintage ds-1 during october rust and early albums... anything after 2005 was using a new ds-1 ...

About Silvertomb and other Kenny's project, the issue is not just a question of tone and voice, it's a question of songwriting. Kenny never was so much into Pete's gothic side of the music, he's more into the classic doom and stoner aspect side inherited from Black Sabbath. He said many times he was not such a fan of Bloody Kisses. Also note one thing, the sound of a band is not just a question of tone, I insist because many musicians in metal are often focused on the effects and gear and forget the rest...including the question of musical language and harmonic language, and Peter had a very personal approach to harmony in his songwriting, that's an aspect many people who try to emulate, overlook or fail to understand, including all those musicians who try to make songs in the style of Peter... they believe it's just about having the voice and the tone and then they would sound like Pete... But they don't...They got the flesh and it's important but not the soul of the style. All those 'what if Peter Steele wrote this song and stuffs' attempts don't get it... Because they focus on the tangible aspects (tone, superficial elements of style, slow, alternate low tuning, low vocals, etc.) But it's just scratching the surface, one key element in the sound of Peter's style is his harmony. This is another intangible elements for many musicians who are not trained in harmony, they can't see it cause they don't get how chords work, they just use them intuitively, without understand the grammar behind it. That's also why they don't sound like TON even if they hit the tone. I rarely heard musicians got it, occasionally some do partially, in an awkward way. For example, Frown, for one or two songs, but most of the time they miss the spot. October Noir somehow seemed to understand there was something going on in that department (the harmonic language, chord progression and scales) and they tried to approach it, but they don't really understand how it works, so they end up ripping off entire chord progressions from TON instead, because they don't understand the harmonic logic of Peter. When you don't understand how it works,you can't be autonomous with it, so you just rip off their chords. But at least one can credit them for figuring out there was something going on in that direction.

As someone who uses amp modelers I NEVER record directly through the sim, I always mic up the monitors or I use a real cab, the feedback and chaos is 100% necessary.

Great video!

I don't know your housing situation, but it would be cool if you did a video comparing/experimenting with feedback and riffing

I've always used his tone as a sort of roadmap for my own. It would be impossible for me to exactly copy as I'm a finger player and don't tune as low. The chorus setting is so tricky to get right in an actual mix, even with that exact setting he used. When mixed with a distortion or OD I always fought with it creating too nasty of warble that clashed with guitars. Especially when playing fast. I always wondered how he got the balance perfect with that, because you can hear him using a similar set up all the way back in the Carnivore days. He seemed to have it dialed in perfectly.

Great work Owen, I am happy you did this video. I saw Type O Negative four times. I will never forget that live sound and how it felt. You felt it when they played. Great job, I miss Type O Negative so much. They played loud and everything you said here is correct.

DUDE!! More opening skits!! You're great at it!

Awesome. Man, that chorus really is that Type O sound.

Congrats for the video. I think you truly understood who Peter was, a giant with a sensitive and fragile soul. New follower here

I'm a lefty and play right handed. We are out here and there are more of us than you expect

this channel made me start listening to type o negative. thanks for that

I miss them. I could cry a thousand days and he still woldn't come back. Music is the reason I am still alive. You are right, metal and rock are dying. Show me the new Slayer, Kind Diamond, Danzig, Motorhead, Type O, etc....... There isn't. It is gone. I still have the energy when I start playing AC/DC's Livewire in my mind, I can hear every note and power of unsurmountable energy in everything when the song starts rolling through my mind. I find the same way with every band and song that I love. I find the power and use it. I have to, if I wan't to keep alive. I am 52 years old now and I still here the music in my mind. Will I when I am older, I better. When I no longer able to play guitar and here the cords ring out or the pinch harmonics scream, time to call it and meet my maker. Besides, I have all the greats already waiting on me in Heaven. In respect to the tone you talk about, I notice alot of special things and nuainces that other people just don't hear. And I sit and wonder just how in the hell did they do that. The problem is, I will never know.

Nice job. You got really close and sounds great.

Good episode enjoyed it! 👍

hi thanks for that video! yeah feedback was really a huge part in their sound especially live! you did not mention the piezzo pickup that give that characteristic sharp sound (the sizzle). i'm wondering if you had one on your bass... by the sound i'd say no but i may be wrong.

Hey Owen, awesome video on possibly the greatest Goth band ever. I hope you get to try out the Peavey Tube Fex or Transtube Fex, the artist presets has Peter Steele and Kenny Hickeys presets. Its an incredible piece of gear.

Great video.

Great video!! I’ve been studying and playing type O for 15-20 years now. One thing I’d like to share as far as the feedback was they all used Fernandez instruments with the sustainer kits. Up untill dead again. Stay negative my friend! October Rust NYC

Thanks man!

Just picking up on the point there of amp modellers, DAWs and using headphones, etc. There is so much reliance these days by even the 'rawest' of bands on running everything through DAWs and all the convenience that comes with that, to the point where all feel is lost. They create massive and complex sounds, but it lacks that human element, and the chaotic energy. I play/record at home, and have to use headphones, but my set up is as simple as possible. I run my guitar through a Dan electro distortion pedal, into a cheap amp, then into an old zoom reverb and effect processor. That then goes into a mixer and the line-in on my PC, where I record to audacity. Is it ideal? No, but it's simple enough with a lot of room for experimenting. Physically turning knobs and adjusting the signal chain to get a sound that can't really be created through plugins.

Absolutely brilliant, really enjoyed that clip and every word you said is true and Type O/Pete and the state of rock and metal right now. I’ll never unsubscribe, long live the ass holes, long live the bastards, long live the womanising hotel room smashing drug taking bad ass mofos of this Earth!!

Shame he didn't have to die. He had Divircutuliclicuous a simple operation could have saved his life. They just stitch the part of the colon together. Then you're pain free into your 90s. He just grinned an bore all that pain tearing up his insides and bleeding out his asshole, at the right age where this kinda thing happens. You can get screened now for free at age 45. That is some of the most intense pain I have known. I can't help but think, that real agony was channeled into his music from so much physical pain. Kinda like how that guy in Joy Division would dance like his siezeures. Men please get your colonoscopy. Don't try and tough it out like Peter.

Totally agree about live amps and feedback/chaos, but some folks may not even have that option in today's world of overpriced everything...from living arrangements, basic utilities, gasoline/deisel, families, yada yada. I have plenty of amps that mostly just sit and collect dust for some of those reasons. It's weird, but i'll throw off the headcans and shove my guitar up to my monitors at different distances to work some feedback. Of course it's not the same thing and different sims react differently, but it adds some of that chaos back into things. I saw Type-O at the Trocadero in Philly years ago and in Manassas, VA years before that....it was a wall of chainsaws both shows! \m/ In the digital age, I spend extra time making things sound a little (sometimes alot) shittier

Peter did have a pedal to go from distortion to clean

One last tone aspect… and this is the key to much of the mad genius of a Dimebag or EVH or Peter Steel or Slash… Pure charisma, to charm that producer into believing the idea. This is the personality aspect in a nutshell. You need a Lars who needed a punch in the face or an Axl to push the music from being a song into a cultural icon. Peter’s face on Black No 1 when he opened the song is magical… we don’t get that magic from a Periphery. I presume that all the sex gods are doing KZfaq instead of bands now. 🤷‍♂️

You should do an episode about Tiamat and their Wildhoney album. For me one of the best goth-metal albums of all time!

You should do an update on what’s the issue with rock and metal 2023 and how to remedy it (Artist and consumer)

Amazing work. Such a dedication. I agree with you about Metal by the way. You shoul dtry to meet Kenny Hickey or Josh Silver, they might have some good trick about Peter's setings.

Not only does everything not have to be perfect, I'd argue that perfect tends to run counter to what we want in metal, hardcore, heavier rock, etc. Those nasty imperfections add character.

U spit straight fax in the beginning about chaos in rock and metal

Awesome we love type o. Plz do more gothic shit, it’s what I’ve a,ways loved about ur channel

One of the great things about some of the great bands is always their sound...it was never about perfection it was their own unique chaos..as you said..in my old band one of the things that made our sound was playing certain amps on certain volume tunings etc to get our sound...it created an unholy chaos that was unobtainable any other way... And when you use a big load of amps you interact with the amps in a way that can never be duplicated...

been subbed for years. what ever happened to your Bolt Thrower tone video?

I've been on the hunt for one of those basses.

Good shit

fucking love you man and your channel finally somebody saying the truth.

Great video Owen. Speakin' of great work; looks like PF is payin' off. Keep it up.

I wish that I could find a Synth / Keyboard nerd to recreate some of the Synth Pads that Josh used on October Rust. Especially the one on Christmas Mourning around 1:19-1:37 of the song. I know he used a bunch of different ones Korg M1, Rolland D-50, Arturia Emulator, and some others. I have no idea what the name of the patches are though.

One most important thing is also his Fernandes sustainer installed on his basses .. this was the secret weapon of his tone ppl tend to overlook. Also Esh Stinger bass he had was fitted with piezo pickup to give him extra bright acoustic tone .. keep in mind he was using different types of basses in his TON span

Ah!!! Toda mostra bem feita a respeito do som e dos efeitos usados por Peter me agradam 👍🏻 Obrigado hein 🤘🏻🤘🏻

I agree with you also, i would love to be proven wrong. But i do believe things will swing back around.

Hello man, i have a question thats been stuck in my head for a while. On the old records, mainly Slow Deep and Hard, there are some slow chorusy / modulation drones and i always wonder if its just some weird feedback from Peters bass or its some distorted synth layer played by Josh. Sometimes this distorted chorusy modulation drone thingy sounds like one with the bass, but sometimes it sounds like a completely separated layer underneath all the distorted guitars from Pete and Kenny, but i guess im just having hard time to hear and differentiate between Petes bass and Kennys guitar bcs they are tuned so low. Any tip how is this sound done? It can be heard on Unsuccessfully coping from time 1:30, Gravitational Constatnt around 3:00 .... If its just bass played through some Chorus effect, could you tell which? I feel like it could be some oldschool rack unit, coz ive got a few chorus pedals and cant really tweak that sound with any of them. Also, similar sound can be heard on tracks by oldschool doom band Winter (album Into Darkness), on the song Oppression Freedom Oppression its used basically through the whole thing. So is it synth or just heavy modulated bass guitar? Nvm thank you for all the good informations in your videos, cheers.

Great information!! Thank you!!! Also, I agree with you about some of the new sounds. I have seen big name bands performing with guitar modelers, and it is obviously not as fun, gritty, or inspiring. It doesn’t help when they are in a non smoking venue. As you clean it up, it becomes less metal.

I didn't read, if someone brought up the list of basses, during the early TON albums. The ALEMBIC SPOILER from Carnivore days to Bloody kisses. Then ESH Stinger bass, during October rust. And Fernandez Tremor right after... God bless the green man.

There's a group of young women based (mostly) out of the New York capital region called Plush that are very promising. They do a bit of covers but they are starting to write their own music also. If they're allowed to develop, I think they can be the real deal in respect to rock and roll.

I'm left handed but play right handed....I didn't even know there was left handed guitars when I started 😅.

I swear when I saw TON at Rockafellas in Columbia SC in 95(?) that there was a Digitech GSP 5 in his setup.

So much pain in Type Os music. Youre right- theres just nothing like it nowadays. Regretful i only discovered them through you, and never got to see them live.

awesome man... can i ask what cab use ppls🙏

That's fuc... awesome sound.

Also, about how the thing where he could get the sound even without picking, he had a sustianiac and a piezo in his bass near the neck that would pick up literally every vibration. In the mid 2000's when he had that weird rubber strap, he would pluck it and it would produce this super subsonic low note cause of the piezo picking it up.

One handed playing was mostly down to a sustainer in the neck pickup

dang, I didn't know Dr. Beau Hightower played bass!

Depression? Where can I download that plugin? Sounds like an expression pedal..

Check out Hammerhedd if you haven’t already. 3 teenage brothers with an original heavy thrashy sound

October Noir is a killer band that's definitely a Type O-inspired Goth metal band. But yeah, we need another Peter Steele, but we also need another Quorthon to show these fools what real black metal sounds like. 🤘

what pick ARE YOU USING?

I'm with you on metal and rock being dead. It used to stand for something and spit in the face of authority. Now it all sounds the same and the bands dont have a fingerprint or identity. Love your channel and id love to see you do a video on Today is the Day.. and Steve Albini since he's passed now. Keep making videos and F all those who want to follow mediocrity.

Could have at least told us what amp sim you used for this, i quite liked the tones you got, even though they weren't spot on.

Que afinación usaba?

I dont think any band, no matter how brutal, manipulates feedback as well as Type O Negative. It IS downright brutal on Slow Deep and Hard. And I also have an Ergodyne bass like you, except it's a 5 string EDA 905, but my action is super high. You get very close to his sound but you don't have the metallic clankyness. To be fair, I dont think you can get Peter Steele's tone without being Peter Steele. It's just so far left field from any other bass player.

Carnivore !

What bass are you using?

What mod do you have on the ds1?

I didn't you hear you mention the fact that he tuned down a perfect 4th. This would add to the "buzzy" tone he had on his 4 string. Plus, I don't recall ever seeing a DS-1 on his board. The times I saw him, he was using a Metal Zone distortion. Of course, I see that yours is modified, which I can only guess gives it more of a Metal Zone vibe. Plus it's not too uncommon for lefties to play right handed. I know there have been loads of guitarists to have done so. That way they wouldn't have to take the time to modify the guitar, or learn to play with the strings inverted ala Albert King. I do agree with you that there's an obvious lack of chaos in, not only rock/metal, but in all genres. practically everything is hyper quantized to the grid. When the biggest musical risk that i being taken is Beyonce' doing a Country song, or Dolly Parton doing a Rock album, that's a sad state of affairs.

Too late for …❤

You're not wrong. But any genre can revive itself the moment an idol appears that make teen girls buy albums/tickets. That's the main driver for buying guitars and starting bands in the first place, impressing girls.

Gotta be honest, I stopped watching years ago because of the whole 'rock is dead' thing, and I was surprised to see it come up again so early in the first video I've watched in 4 years. It's not dead, it had babies and it's job now is to watch them grow. Anyway, see you in another 4 years broski.

Algörhitm

I don’t get this „handness” thing. For me regular bass was waaay more natural while being left handed :)

Yes rock is dead... but! Nothing is dead that can eternal lie And with strange aeons even death may die So no. Never dead. Do you play to keep the beast at bay or to bring it out to play?

I dunno, I feel like experimental and indie-ish metal bands have made some of the most innovative and interesting music of the past decade: The Body, Litugy, Lingua Ignota, Deafheaven, Big Brave, Chelsea Wolfe, Bell Witch, Amenra, Oathbreaker, and Victory Over the Sun... the list could go on and on. It's a refreshing change from a couple decades of knuckle-dragging attempts to one-up Slayer. It used to be a little embarassing to be into metal, but now it feels like the cutting edge of popular music - certainly the guitar-based stuff, anyways. The conventional metal that continues to try to sound macho and "heavy" with sterile sounds and a grid sucks, but who cares? DAW-metal certainly can foster boring mediocrity but it can just as easily help weirdos make some wild and deeply fucked up stuff. I can't see metal over hitting the top of the charts but - again - who cares? Pop metal fucking sucked. Anyways, enjoyed the video as usual - and yes, I did subscribe. I continue like the no bullshit, insightful explanations you offer. You're missing out though! The Godfleshes and Type O Negatives of the present-day are out there to enjoy and support.

Did you refer to Playgirl as a 'women's magazine'? LOL

is this a moded ds1

If we keep using VSTs, and digitize everything, there will no genuine music left to listen to in the future. Extreme music was dangerous back then. I lived through the Thrash/Hardcore explosion of the mid eighties, and I must say, there are no Iron Maiden or Metallica replacements insight. Just a bunch of squeaky clean, lined-up to a grid clones with very little character.

Metal is dead. It was always about pushing boundaries. When it went mainstream, it was definitively dead. Modelling amps and democratization of 'good' gear ruined all the experimentalism. Being able to load a preset of your favorite guitarist's tone and aping all your favorite songs from TABs so you can play along with them and sound just like someone else, is why everything sounds the same. Quorthon is the prog GOAT, with his diddly bow and modded clock radio.