The Great Guard Dog / Pit Viper Kerfuffle (Arkham Horror Rules Roundup)

  Рет қаралды 3,806

Quick Learner

Quick Learner

2 ай бұрын

Do you get Poisoned if you get attacked by a Pit Viper but put the damage on an Ally? This question comes up time and time again -- what happens? Join me for another discussion of the rules in Arkham Horror: The Card Game!

Пікірлер: 50
@fredfredrickson5436
@fredfredrickson5436 2 ай бұрын
Loving the flavour of this content Daniel. The kafkaesque insanity of the lawyerly Arkham rule-set is a big part of the fun as far as we're concerned.
@voxelrobot4473
@voxelrobot4473 2 ай бұрын
The Duke Investigate makes sense to me. You're still doing the investigation action and piecing the clues together. You just get a higher detection rating (i.e. base intellect) from leveraging Duke's dog senses.
@lexta13
@lexta13 Ай бұрын
Yeah, you follow your dog (who’s sniffing something, for example) but the Magnifying Glass will help you figure out what it is.
@humbas13
@humbas13 15 күн бұрын
Congrats on the effort you make the rules of this beloved game clearer! 👏
@GrantM1337
@GrantM1337 Ай бұрын
Playing a relevant TFA scenario today with guard dogs and vipers so thank you!
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner Ай бұрын
Good timing!
@batmansmk
@batmansmk 2 ай бұрын
Coming from a LOTR LCG background, the ruling is in line with this other LCG philosophy.
@L0grak
@L0grak 2 ай бұрын
The other fun related sort of related topic that can get people confused on a similar issue is Key of Ys. You can have other assets you control soak horror for Key of Ys, avoiding its first Forced ability, because the wording is "When any amount of horror would be placed on you: Place 1 of that horror on Key of Ys". That wording is one of the reasons Key of Ys is so strong, because if it said "When any amount of horror is dealt to you...", then you would be forced to place a horror on the key even if you soaked the rest of it on allies. However, "placing" damage or horror is the final step of damage taking, occuring after the assigning phase, where you physically "place" the damage/horror token on cards. Therefore, the FAQ section relating to being "dealt" damage/horror (where "you" includes assets you control) doesn't apply, and "you" is instead your investigator card, as clarified in a rules FAQ for Key of Ys ages ago (and also as applicable for other effects that refer to "you", such as healing cards that heal "you"). These edge cases can get pretty confusing in Arkham and I think some of the templating doesn't help! The guard dog/Pit Viper ruling actually does make sense though in the framing of the when/if/after timings. I think some other recent rulings that have been submitted by email have been a little bit more counterintuitive and I'm tending towards ignoring email/discord rulings mostly now until they hit an official FAQ publication. See recent rulings on Quick Learner (your namesake!) and Plan of Action for some spicy interpretations that directly contradict previous rules clarifications! These edge case rules can be a real messy rabbit hole.
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
I don't mind picking and choosing the "e-mail rulings" - I tend to set a standard of whether or not their justification follows anything in the Rules Reference / FAQ or if they're just making a quick decision that doesn't really address the rules confusion that brought about the question in the first place. The Quick Learner / POA rulings are a bit frustrating additionally because they seem to be overturning long-standing understandings of how the community has been playing the cards without giving us any particular reason why they would like to change that precedent.
@DrDifra
@DrDifra Ай бұрын
What about quick learner ?
@ctrlaltdel3110
@ctrlaltdel3110 2 ай бұрын
Love this format! Please make this a series
@WayOfHaQodesh
@WayOfHaQodesh 2 ай бұрын
Thank you so much for this Daniel. Am really interested in game design and would love to see more content about such rules interactions, understanding the framework, timing structures etc. I've seen most all, I think, of your rules videos, and they were informative and helpful.
@jmerranko77
@jmerranko77 Ай бұрын
May the Outer Gods bless you for making these fantastic videos.
@pb-bx1ll
@pb-bx1ll 2 ай бұрын
Great video, thank you
@benlol3023
@benlol3023 2 ай бұрын
looooove your arkham content
@Trrade
@Trrade 2 ай бұрын
Yes more esoteric rules video!
@PseudoNymh730
@PseudoNymh730 2 ай бұрын
I applaud your courage putting up rules explanations at this era of the game. With FFG recently issuing rulings that directly contradict previous rulings (Quick Learner, Survival Knife) or that seem to conflict the spirit of the game in general (Rod of Carnamagos) it's a lot harder than it used to be to feel certain of rules interactions in Arkham.
@waltercardcollector
@waltercardcollector 2 ай бұрын
This is the first I've heard of rule changes that affect Quick Learner and Survival Knife. What are the new rules for them?
@PseudoNymh730
@PseudoNymh730 2 ай бұрын
@@waltercardcollector I have tried twice to post links to BoardGameGeek threads that discuss these in details but my post keeps getting deleted (I'm guessing KZfaq didn't like me posting external links?). The short story is that a recent ruling on Quick Learner directly contradicts how the card's designer stated the card works, and a recent ruling on Survival Knife directly contradicts how the FAQ states the 'as if' rules work. I'm afraid since I can't post links the best I can do is recommend you head to the Arkham forums on BGG and search the card titles if you want the full breakdown.
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
Yeah, KZfaq doesn't allow comments with external links. But PseudoNymh is correct.The relevant rulings are also the ArkhamDB pages for those cards.
@waltercardcollector
@waltercardcollector 2 ай бұрын
@@Quick_Learner Oh wow thx
@camo9619
@camo9619 2 ай бұрын
i think the knife answer just refer to the effect of the knife only. It just says that the react effect aplies when the damage its aplied to you, and as the damage its aplied to other player or player asset, then you cant react. If A Viper Bites a friend in your location, and you Have a Tetsuo Mori and a survival knife, then you should also react stab the pit viper....
@Sorrynametaken
@Sorrynametaken 2 ай бұрын
I would like to see a video on some of the most confusing and/or badly templated cards. I think some cards simply have wording mistakes that make the card do something unintended and rather than errata the card, the designers just went with it. For example, you can "float" Charles Ross's fast trigger ability over multiple turns and it will still take effect if Charles is not in play.
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
For whatever reason, they're allergic to errata. I'd rather they use that as a tool more often.
@TickTakashi
@TickTakashi Ай бұрын
I had understood that You == Your cards. So when "you take X damage" that X damage is allocated anywhere among your cards. In the case of Hank taking a few points for me (but not all of them) I would assume we both get poisoned, since we both took damage. This seems consistent with both the rulings in the video but I might be thinking about this too simplistically and missing another interaction!
@RiffMimoy
@RiffMimoy 2 ай бұрын
Thank you for your content! I really enjoy it and it gives a lot of perspective on the framework. Especially as a non native speaker. I think this game deserves some kind of of 2nd Edition, at some point. FFG managed to drastically improve the ruling of the Game of Thrones LCG in the 2nd Edition (at least as far as I'm concerned). I would love to see a similar treatment for Arkham Horror as well. Which means consistent wording and intuitive rules; getting rid of stuff might help as well. I for one don't know, if there is any reason, why events use the "fast" keyword instead of the reaction and lightning bolt symbol. Is there any rule that would make a difference? My look on the rules comes from the perspective of more of a euro gamer. And as such, I can't help but feel that they're way to bloated and/or unintuitive. On the other hand, a 2nd edition could make some fixes on cards and put their power level in line with other cards (buffs and nerfs respectively).
@waltercardcollector
@waltercardcollector 2 ай бұрын
I agree with having icons on events instead of using the word "fast"! It would also be in line with the LOTR and Marvel LCGs because they have templating for events and abilities the same already.
@josecadena4593
@josecadena4593 Ай бұрын
“Fast” assets can only be played during your turn, unless otherwise specified. “Fast” events specify when they can be played (see, for instance, ward of protection). On the other hand, the lightning bolt symbol indicates that the text in the card can be activated during any lightning bolt window.
@waltercardcollector
@waltercardcollector Ай бұрын
@@josecadena4593 I agree about that. So because the Fast keyword already means something different on events and assets, I think they should keep the Fast keyword for assets but for events I still think it would be helpful if they used icons instead. (For example, Ward of Protection could say "[Reaction trigger icon] When you draw a non-weakness treachery card:" etc. and Shortcut could say "[Free trigger icon] During your turn:" etc.)
@josecadena4593
@josecadena4593 Ай бұрын
@@waltercardcollector I see what you’re saying. It seems that it was an early design choice that those icons only apply to assets but not events or skills. That could certainly be cleaned up.
@markmittelbach7975
@markmittelbach7975 2 ай бұрын
The when/if/after triggering is pretty simple. While you do have to learn it, it doesn't really cause problems, it's just learning the order things happen in. Compared to how "when" and "if" happen in MtG, and how cards that give you an option that can cause a bonus effect now have to be phrased "You may do X effect, when you do Y effect" rather than "...if you do Y effect" in order to work well. "During" is the time rule I really wish Arkham Horror would get better. They shouldn't have nested actions from other cards be considered during, it's keeps causing cards to work in bad ways.
@emergency.jergens
@emergency.jergens Ай бұрын
Perhaps the pit viper should have been worded differently. Something about “damage placed” instead of “deals damage”.
@InfernoJo
@InfernoJo 2 ай бұрын
Before your first turn seems to trip me up quite a bit
@ioannispaxinos5171
@ioannispaxinos5171 Ай бұрын
People are interpretting the theme wrong. You didn't actually bring the mall cop with you into the wild jungles with Ichtaca. Allies represent resource management. So for example you have a cop back in the city sending you supplies via mail or contacting people for information you might find useful etc. That's the thematic interpretation of having an ally asset in your deck. They're people, not items you can just use, it's a metaphor.
@giulianorsini
@giulianorsini 16 күн бұрын
is it correct to say that you are not the investigator only, but the sum of all the cards you play?
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 16 күн бұрын
That's reasonable for some instances of "You", but sometimes it does refer to the investigator card only.
@thirteenthirtyseven4730
@thirteenthirtyseven4730 2 ай бұрын
AH certainly is not the first game that has interactions calling for a clear rules engine to unambiguously resolve questions. What puzzles me is that - from a game design and game management perspective - the lessons learned from other games are seemingly ignored. Magic:TG has a well developed rules engine and fairly clean card templating. Why do games such as AH feel like they have to reinvent the wheel and make stuff up as the games develops further? Also in reference to the negative commends you shared: It’s ok to be frustrated by stuff not working as you would like them to. Insisting that everyone who disagrees with your preferred interpretation is wrong is a different story. It’s just a game. The rules are not perfect and sometimes there is no clearly defined right answer. Why not just accept this and go with what feels right (or apply the grim rule) in that case? No crusade against non-believers is needed.
@tcr7
@tcr7 2 ай бұрын
I wouldn't have ever considered Pit Viper & Tetsuo/Hank interaction. To me, it reads clearly. If Tetsuo takes damage from the Pit Viper, the owner of Tetsuo takes a poison weakness. Likewise, if Hank takes the Pit Viper damage for me, he'll become poisoned. The Forced is always there on the card. It doesn't just magically appear for you because you are being attacked. Pit Viper is just a more honest Oprah. Did it deal you damage from its attack? You get a poison, you get a poison, everyone gets a poison (that was attacked and dealt damage)!
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
It may indeed be the answer, but Hank was never dealt damage from the attack, he was only assigned damage. It's the same reason why Hank can only put damage from other investigators on his card and not on his assets.
@tcr7
@tcr7 2 ай бұрын
@@Quick_Learner Ah, that makes sense. Screw that, I'll just take Kymani into Forgotten Age from now on and never have to worry about it again. lol
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
Kymani is always a winner!
@ioannispaxinos5171
@ioannispaxinos5171 Ай бұрын
Oh my God, those comments are so ridiuclous. It didn't have to literally bite the guard dog. Maybe it caused the damage when it lunged at the dog and the dog had to maneuver to avoid and counter attack it. Maybe it scratched it with the edge of a tooth where the poisonous vein didn't reach. People can get really whiny about really simple thematic issues that can be perfectly reasoned with just a little imagination.
@danacoleman4007
@danacoleman4007 2 ай бұрын
I will probably pretty much always do what's most thematic. if I can figure out what that would be. Lol. That's what this game is about, to me. it is a mechanical game, and I certainly enjoy that part, but it's also a storytelling game. Great video!
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
I like the storytelling aspect a lot, too! But there's already so many abstractions in the game -- what are clues, anyways? They certainly change from scenario to scenario! I don't mind twisting the narrative to fit the mechanics of the game, rather than twisting the rules themselves. One of my friends pointed out that the poison is coming from Yig, and even though your Beat Cop might have taken the damage for you from the viper, Yig knows who paid for the Beat Cop to be there, so you get the poison.
@DakonBlackblade2
@DakonBlackblade2 2 ай бұрын
I mean, it honestly seems like the triggering condition for Pit Viper and Guard Dog aren't supposed to be the same, as Pit Viper's ability would trigger as soon as damage is assigned to you, and the Dog's would only trigger after you decide what to do with the damage assigned to you (and put it on the dog). So I don't think it should matter how the abilities are worded, but the rules team said it should go this way so I suppose it should (the rules team seem to be trying their best to screw as many interactions as they possibly can lately and make things as unintuitive as possible).
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
I think it matters. The "after" in the Pit Viper's ability means that you should fully resolve all of the steps for dealing damage first. Assigning damage is only part of the steps for dealing damage (the second step is the physical placement of the tokens). Since Guard Dog is "when" it'll happen before all of that is resolved.
@DakonBlackblade2
@DakonBlackblade2 2 ай бұрын
@@Quick_Learner Ye but what I'm arguing is that the triggering points aren't the same, since damage is first dealt to you, then you assign it to the Guard Dog, meaning the triggers for Pit Viper forced ability and the Guard Dog's reaction should not be the same, so if one is templated "after" and the other "when" shouldn't matter as these things only come into consideration when the triggering conditions are the same. Like you are dealt damage, this triggers the Pit Vipers forced ability, then you assign the damage to the dog and this triggers the dog’s reaction, the cards are worded in a way that read that way, they don't trigger at the same moment at all from reading the cards. The e-mail ruling seems to imply the triggering condition for both these abilities is in fact the same, so they are saying you being dealt damage and you assigning said damage to the Guard Dog is the same thing, I am arguing it shouldn't be, but e-mail rulings have been contentious lately and if they said it is then it is I guess.
@Quick_Learner
@Quick_Learner 2 ай бұрын
Okay, I see what you are saying, and I kind of agree that the timing points are not identical, but regardless, the Guard Dog's trigger is somewhere in the middle of the steps for Dealing Damage/Horror (pg. 7 of the Rules Reference), but because the Pit Viper's trigger has to be after all of the steps of Dealing Damage/Horror have fully resolved, it'll still be after whenever the Guard Dog gets to do its thing.
@jonathanpickles2946
@jonathanpickles2946 2 ай бұрын
Re your 5:35 point, in The Lord of the Rings the original target remains the subject of this type of effect even if another player defends on their behalf. Otoh in Marvel Champions the new defending player would suffer any effects like the poison.
Playing hide and seek with my dog 🐶
00:25
Zach King
Рет қаралды 32 МЛН
Smart Sigma Kid #funny #sigma #comedy
00:26
CRAZY GREAPA
Рет қаралды 14 МЛН
УГАДАЙ ГДЕ ПРАВИЛЬНЫЙ ЦВЕТ?😱
00:14
МЯТНАЯ ФАНТА
Рет қаралды 3,9 МЛН
Happy 4th of July 😂
00:12
Alyssa's Ways
Рет қаралды 68 МЛН
Learning the Right Lesson (Arkham Horror Strategy)
23:12
Quick Learner
Рет қаралды 3,2 М.
Eldritch Horror Playthrough Turn 1
13:43
Paul Darcy
Рет қаралды 21 М.
Arkham Horror Strategy Guide: Passing Skill Tests
24:08
Quick Learner
Рет қаралды 8 М.
AoS4 Army Construction | AoS 4e
13:40
AoS Coach
Рет қаралды 6 М.
My First Thoughts About The HEMLOCK VALE CAMPAIGN!
18:53
Quick Learner
Рет қаралды 6 М.
The Card That Broke The Game
5:48
D20 Woodworking
Рет қаралды 1,7 М.
DungeonQuest - Solo play
41:26
Glowing Turtle
Рет қаралды 26 М.
Which Pokemon Champion Is The STRONGEST Competitively... (VGC)
26:08
Moxie Boosted
Рет қаралды 112 М.
Arkham Horror Archetype Guide: Reduce Skill Test Difficulty
15:13
Quick Learner
Рет қаралды 2,5 М.
10 More Rules You Should Know - Arkham Horror LCG Rules Roundup
16:33
The thieves pulled a prank on the Policeman ! 😬👮🤣
0:38
BOGDANCHIKI
Рет қаралды 6 МЛН
Никогда не убивай это существо! 😱
0:28
Моя Жена Босс!
0:40
Petya English
Рет қаралды 5 МЛН
我说我不是故意的,你们信吗
0:25
侠客红尘
Рет қаралды 23 МЛН