The Greatest Contradiction of Common Sense

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Bernardo Kastrup 🇪🇺

Bernardo Kastrup 🇪🇺

10 жыл бұрын

The greatest contradiction of our common sense is the absolute incompatibility between the views that reality has qualities -- like color, taste, smell -- and that consciousness ends upon physical death.
This video is an introduction to Bernardo Kastrup's philosophy aimed at those who have never had contact with it before.
For more details of the book behind this video, see:
www.iff-books.com/books/why-ma...
www.amazon.com/Why-Materialism...
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17...
Author pages:
www.bernardokastrup.com
/ bernardokastrup
/ bernardokastrup
/ bernardokastrup
www.amazon.com/author/bernardo...
Background music "Deliberate Thought" by Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons Attribution 3.0.
Copyright 2014 by Bernardo Kastrup. All rights reserved.

Пікірлер: 52
@galafanimasilela8863
@galafanimasilela8863 10 жыл бұрын
death is not the end nor the opposite of life but the continuity......transcendence into permanent spiritual awareness/consciousness. ' we are not just human beings having a spiritual experience but we are spiritual beings having a human experience.
@jaguillermol
@jaguillermol Жыл бұрын
But you are just repeating what new age people say. It has no meaning.
@bernardokastrup
@bernardokastrup 9 жыл бұрын
ALL: I cannot comment on philosophical content via KZfaq comments anymore, due to limited time and redundancy with other places where I do discuss my philosophical system. So if you like to engage on philosophical discussions, please post in my Discussion Forum at: groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!forum/metaphysical-speculations. You can find more useful links about my philosophical system here: www.bernardokastrup.com/2015/04/social-media-policy-and-useful-links.html. I count on your understanding!
@MichaelMeighu
@MichaelMeighu 2 жыл бұрын
He does make a statement that is a little difficult to swallow. The idea that if we do believe that reality is a representation in our heads, then reality can't exist exterior. What about: colours do exist, but what we see is a representation of those colours, and what you see is also a representation of that reality, and there is some overlap that we share when we see those colours, space etc. Is that a possibility @Bernado? Ultimately I love this philosophy and I believe it. I do also see for us to have shared experiences - beyond simple colours - we must have a connection in common. A bit like computers before and after the internet.
@FetterMuncher666
@FetterMuncher666 6 ай бұрын
I find with videos like this there is so much that hangs on an expectation that the listener is synced with the essayist definitions. I find it hard to follow but I like to listen and hope its true as it feels like a much more relaxing world than materialises.
@moesypittounikos
@moesypittounikos 2 жыл бұрын
This reminds me of the end of the first Matrix film. Bernardo has picked up the phone and is telling the illusory culture the truth at last!
@leandrosilvagoncalves1939
@leandrosilvagoncalves1939 3 жыл бұрын
Hi Bernardo, it is possible to add captions in other languages to your presentations? Your message has to reach more people because it feels true and the world needs to hear it in this moment more than ever
@luchiandacian8815
@luchiandacian8815 3 жыл бұрын
He can speak 4 Languages. He is Brasilian who lived in Holand.
@ShirleyMcalpine
@ShirleyMcalpine 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@nicolev.3403
@nicolev.3403 5 жыл бұрын
Great video. Thank you.
@ralphmonley7336
@ralphmonley7336 3 жыл бұрын
I have read the book and also delved into Bernado’s material on KZfaq. It requires a complete backflip in thinking, but I think (and hope) that he is right.
@Itsonlymakebelieve
@Itsonlymakebelieve 2 жыл бұрын
Hi Bernardo, I always look forward to listening to your views. Sometimes, I understand your arguments, sometimes I don't. I am lost in this video. I would subscribe to Non Duality. It makes perfect sense to me. The word Consciousness has me baffled. I never know whether the user of the word is describing Oneness, God, Awareness. Without our senses, we would not make 'sense' of our surroundings and are therefore reliant on them to form a picture of what is happening, objectively at least.. One problem we have is becoming prisoner to our conditioned thoughts regarding what our senses perceive to be real. It appears to me that many humana need to label everything, to name everything as it were, for it to be become conscious to us. This labelling is not reality, only conditioned beliefs about the labels themselves. It's a trap.
@jaguillermol
@jaguillermol Жыл бұрын
Yes! I agree! It's like when you have worked all week and hate your job and don't really even want to see anyone, and you walk through a valley and there are birds singing and insects humming and the rays of the setting sun over the hills flashes their orange light between the trees. When you hear your dad's voice giving names to all those things the pure experience is soiled and disappears, but if you manage to keep your inner voice shut up you truly experience reality.
@gireeshneroth7127
@gireeshneroth7127 10 ай бұрын
Consciousness is happening within itself living a mind wake.
@chrisdistant9040
@chrisdistant9040 Жыл бұрын
Reality does not have these qualities. We construct these qualities from our perceptions of aspects of reality.
@chrisdistant9040
@chrisdistant9040 Жыл бұрын
Man, i thought I’d give his ideas another go, assuming I just didn’t get his ideas from other exposures. Hoo boy this man seems much more confused than I first thought. Not a single of these „arguments“ seems coherent. Reminds me a lot of the nonsequetor ramblings of Rupert Sheldrake.
@alexialove9108
@alexialove9108 2 жыл бұрын
Thankyou
@GummiTomm
@GummiTomm 3 жыл бұрын
I wish i was able to understand this.
@mitchberger4043
@mitchberger4043 5 жыл бұрын
Mr Kastrup, please will you elucidate something for me? Excuse my paraphrasing, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you say that by the materialist view if death is the end of consciousness, then all conscious experience must be generated within the brain. But would a materialist not posit that conscious experience, occurring in the brain, is like a mirror reflecting external forms? Thus the brain (the mirror) is something concrete and material, and it reflects that which is concrete and material. A mirror may be broken apart, so that it no longer exists, but the external forms it reflected remain. Just so, the brain may dissolve, so that it no longer reflects, colours, or interprets that which is around it, but all which was around it remains? I would be most grateful if you could clarify this for me.
@johncallaghan3097
@johncallaghan3097 5 жыл бұрын
You might get an answer if you ask your question on Bernardo's forum: groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/metaphysical-speculations
@kirstinstrand6292
@kirstinstrand6292 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder what comments Bernardo would think of when someone engaging a forty year old dream as a guide to healing, believes the complete symbolism has manifested itself in her life experiences.
@kumarvishwajeet8419
@kumarvishwajeet8419 4 жыл бұрын
Right
@david8157
@david8157 10 жыл бұрын
Hello Bernardo. Thank you for sharing this essay. I agree with you that death is not the end of consciousness, or life; but for different reasons and within a different model of Reality. I am not a reductive materialist; but I do accept the existence of matter independent of mind. Perhaps in a deep way our models may not be entirely irreconcilable; but at a more superficial level I have some quibbles which may be useful - or not; as you decide. At 2.30 you describe the materialist's reality as a realm of abstract quantities akin to mathematical equations; but this is to confuse scientific theory with physical reality. Math equations are just a language to describe theories about physical reality - they are not physical reality itself. No scientist who knows what he is talking about would claim that physical reality is composed of mathematical equations. At 2.59 you say that in the materialist's model the room or world is in ones head. But this is not correct. The materialist would say the experience is in ones head; not the room or the world. The qualities of our experiences are how we perceive the various subtleties of physical reality. What we hear as sound is present in physical reality as pressure waves in the fluid we call air. What we see as colour is present in physical reality as different modulations of electromagnetic energy; etc. Why demand that the way we experience the subtleties of physical reality due to our particular sensorium is the manner in which they must exist in physical reality? The principle of transduction is all that is required. Sensory experience is a transduction of physical energies into mental forms and qualities. I admit that to my knowledge nobody knows how that transduction from the physical to the mental occurs; and unfortunately, due to the dominance of reductive materialism in our times, the question is not even considered by science. I hope a more advanced and enlightened science will one day address such issues. Just a couple of thoughts
@meerkat1954
@meerkat1954 4 жыл бұрын
"Why demand that the way we experience the subtleties of physical reality due to our particular sensorium is the manner in which they must exist in physical reality?" There probably is no single physical reality, that's the whole point. Your experience of reality is a manifestation of a consciousness beyond what you understand. So too is a bat's experience of reality. Neither reality "physically" exists, because "physical" is a useless and unnecessary abstraction from reality invented by people who couldn't quite get their mind wrapped around the truth of the universe. There is only consciousness as the core truth of reality. Both your subjective experience and sensation of reality and a bat's subjective experience and sensation of reality are actually objectively true and objectively happening, but they appear to be entirely subjective because they are differentiated sub processes within the same overall objective meta consciousness, the existence of which provides the foundation of reality, dispensing with the need for abstract explanations like a "physical" world.
@david8157
@david8157 4 жыл бұрын
@William Braddell No I am not a panpsychist; in the sense that I do not think that will turnout to be the right solution. But of course like everyone else I dont know what the right solution is yet. With regard to the mystery of consciousness and human mind generally I do know this much, (speaking metaphorically) our understanding of human mind is still in a pre-Copernican stage of development.
@jaguillermol
@jaguillermol Жыл бұрын
@@meerkat1954 I think we must throw away the term "objective" because that is one of the sources to this problem
@jaguillermol
@jaguillermol Жыл бұрын
The human experience must be put in the center. Because everything science comes up with that seems different from our "subjective" experience is still from a human point of view. It just really strains itself to not have a human point of view, and instead it has an even more human point of view, that of our invented languages if mathematics and natural philosophy. At least the human experience of smell sound colours etc is partly shared by other life forms, so it has an elevated form of subjectivity, or shared subjectivity.
@jaguillermol
@jaguillermol Жыл бұрын
But with the death theory aren't you assuming that there is only one consciousness? Or that the "whirlpool in consciousness" i.e. our brains and bodies, aren't the things that constitute our individuality? So when the brain and the body loses reception of consciousness, the individuality is gone. Or maybe I need to watch many more of your videos to really know where you are coming from. My own belief is that the source/the creator/the almighty cannot have a substance because then it is not the source. And because everything is alive and conscious, the source must be conscious. The source "is consciousness." Every thing that is composed of cells has reception of consciousness. But the other things that are not composed of cells don't have reception (minerals, elements.) The shape of cells is like the whirlpool. Just like an antenna has recepcion because of it's shape. Geometry. Minerals and elements must also come from consciousness because they have other shapes. There is no chaos. Shape and order requires consciousness, a source. In all religions there are gods and/or angels and/or "spirits" and they exist in another way than we do, they are no composed of elements/minerals set up in certain shapes (cells) that have reception of consciousness. So there are three different types or consciousness, the source which is the main "field", the shapes composed of elements/minerals that has reception (cells,) and beings that have consciousness without the those shapes. But consciousness *is* the source, so those beings must be here somehow. The "unconsious mind" is "where" those beings exist, the angels/gods etc. That means there is the same consciousness but at least two levels if it: the "shape level" and the "pure" level. It is the pure level since it only exists inside our hidden mind, not in the consciousness we percieve with out individuality in the world. But they can express themselves in the world by numina.
@malabuha
@malabuha 5 жыл бұрын
Bernardo. If the world is mental, and there is nothing "outside" why do i bump into a chair in a completely dark room? I wasnt aware it was there so i could not percieve it in any way. But i bumped into it. It was outside of my conscious awareness. Does that mean that i am only one of the excitation in consciousness just like that chair? Because i agree that the world i percieve is trully mental. If that is so and i too am an excitation in consciousness, it would prove that i am not consciousness itself, the way majority of spiritual teachers teach today. I am not consciousness but i am IN consciousness. That's the only way i can explain it to myself how someone can get affected by material objects one is not aware of. So there. I am not consciousness. I am just like that chair in it. This is turning to sound more and more simplistic.. the way things looked since i was a kid. No mystery there. Making all this quest only to arrive from where i started. Which is, i am just a passenger in a big show that takes place in the only thing there can ever be - consciousness/mind. But why do they say "i is consciousness'? I am sure there must be a reason they claim that?
@meerkat1954
@meerkat1954 4 жыл бұрын
I think you've kind of got things figured out, yeah. I agree it's weird that thinking this through ends up putting one back in sort of the same understanding we had as kids that we are just tiny parts of a huge crazy world outside our control. But I think after going through this line of thinking we emerge with a lot richer and humbler understanding of reality, and a sense of wonder that the universe is really even more amazing than it seemed as the static lifeless physical/materialist conceptualization taught in schools. We also of course gain critical newfound hope that death isn't the end at all.
@jaguillermol
@jaguillermol Жыл бұрын
He is not talking about your consciousness, but "The Consciousness" You are conscious, but the consciousness you have is a derivative of "The Consciousness". In Spain they say, "every person is a world." It is your own separate world, everything you experience with your senses and in your dreams. Every other person and animal is equal to you if you love them. Love makes them as real as you are, but they exist or visit you inside your world. You are reading this that I have written inside your world, (which is everything that you are aware of i.e. not the chair in the dark room,) which is composed of your consciousness. Which in turn is "held up" inside "The Consciousness". Composed of it. Just like you are. "I am consciousness" yes, but not my own separate consciousness, but the higher one. It's my/your substance. The spiritual teachers seem to repeat what they hear from each other without thinking deeper about, IMHO. And they are all talking about death. "Don't be sad or worried about death, because you are consciousness" ok, but I am my individuality, so when I die and my separate consciousness disappears and I become "consciousnes itself" I will not exist anymore. All those spiritual teachers seem to want to start their own religions, but the religions that are already there solve the problem that they create. At least the religions that talk about an afterlife. Reincarnation seems to not solve the problem, your indivuality is dissolved at death and the kernel if your particular consciousness is reborn but has no awareness of your experiences and memoriesm
@intenebris83
@intenebris83 9 жыл бұрын
Mr. Kastrup, you mentioned that materialism is the presumption of a "purely abstract realm of quantities, akin to mathematical equations". However, my question to you is this: What makes you - or anyone else for that matter - think that that worldview is any different from Kantianism? Because that description sounds an awful lot like Kant's "noumena" (which lack all the qualities of conscious experience, as you mentioned). Wouldn't that simply mean that what we call "materialism" is just idealism with an inherent logical contradiction? Serious question ;) (As you're probably aware, Kant was [after all] an idealist.)
@bernardokastrup
@bernardokastrup 9 жыл бұрын
ExistentialAesthetic83 Kant simply said that our knowledge is limited to the contents of conscious perception (phenomenon) and that the supposed object in itself (noumenon) is unknowable. This way, Kant's point is epistemic, not necessarily ontological. Kant admits that the noumenon (the world outside consciousness) may even exist, but we can't say anything about it. I, in turn, deny the very need to postulate the existence of the noumenon, asserting that reality can be fully explained in purely phenomenological terms. As such, my position is ontological, not only epistemic. It's very different from Kant's, though complementary at the same time. As for "materialism being just idealism with a logical contradiction," I have no idea what it means. :)
@intenebris83
@intenebris83 9 жыл бұрын
***** "As for "materialism being just idealism with a logical contradiction," I have no idea what it means." It means that materialism is the metaphysical conception which denies that it is a conception, if that helps ;) It seems to me that materialists assume some vague, abstract realm with no clear definition, then turn around and assert that this abstract realm isn't abstract at all. In other words, it's just a logical contradiction, as far as I can tell :)
@bernardokastrup
@bernardokastrup 9 жыл бұрын
ExistentialAesthetic83 Got it, I understand your point and agree. :)
@dearsk
@dearsk 3 жыл бұрын
Nice repacking of Advaita Vedanta's principles in 'scientific bottle'.
@gerontodon
@gerontodon 10 жыл бұрын
OK, but can you answer the question that I asked twice a few months ago, and you didn't answer. It was: If we are analogous to whirlpools in a sea of consciousness, then how does it help us if the whirlpool ceases on death. Wouldn't it effectively be the end of us if our individual consciousness were dissipated into universal ground consciousness? Identity seems to be tied to perspective, so if that perspective is gone and other 'whirlpools' arise, that doesn't seem offer any hope of life after death as far as I can see. You might as well say that a part of us is present in every mosquito buzzing around _right now_, purely on the basis that they are also whirlpools in the same sea of consciousness. Also, if the above is correct, then can you suggest any potential mechanism or principle that could account for the generation of another whirlpool to carry on where another _specific_ one left off? This is the only way I could envision real continuance after death from being compatible with your model. I think I can be fairly sure that you are rejecting dualism and so that would leave out the possibility of our continuance of minds in a purely mental state, awaiting the next 'whirlpool'. No, you seem to be saying that there is no such thing as a 'mind' that is altogether separate from the world, but the whirlpool _creates_ the individual mind. Anyway, I'm not saying that there's nothing in what you're saying. I also tend towards idealism and think there is the possibility of personal continuance after death, and a lot of what you say makes sense to me. However, I don't think that your model of idealism is full enough to give a convincing account of personal continuation. One reason I find this interesting is that I've noticed that the Buddhist doctrine of Nirvana, which I take as being more-or-less dissolution into ground consciousness, seems, on the face of it, pretty much the same as the ancient Egyptian idea of the destiny awaiting people who had not 'done their work' while living. However, on the Buddhist account it's presented as a _good_ thing, and on the ancient Egyptian account it's presented as a _bad_ thing. There are some Christians who have similar ideas to the ancient Egyptians here. The Buddhists of course think that the self is an 'illusion' anyway, and the result of 'attachment', so would you say that _that's_ of any relevance to your model and a clue to how successive and related whirlpools could possibly become generated? Alternatively, do you think the ancient Egyptian model, where you have to _earn_ personal continuance, perhaps by maintaining personal integrity, is compatible in some way? In relation to your model, I think it seems significant that one meaning of 'integrity' is 'the state of being whole and undivided.' Of course, there's no obligation for you to answer, but I was a bit disappointed that you ignored my questions last time. I don't think they're stupid, but perhaps I didn't make them clear enough.
@bernardokastrup
@bernardokastrup 10 жыл бұрын
Eman Puedama Sorry I missed your questions before. You ask: "Wouldn't it effectively be the end of us if our individual consciousness were dissipated into universal ground consciousness?" I answer this exact question in Why Materialism Is Baloney, in the section "What is it that survives?", pages 197-199. Maybe you can get those pages in the free preview on amazon or google books? The essence is that your inner sense of "Iness" survives, even though the "story of you" dissipates. As I write in the book: "Therefore, for exactly the same reason that you believe yourself to be the same person you were when you were a child [even though everything about you has changed], you will feel unambiguously that it is really you that survives physical death."
@bernardokastrup
@bernardokastrup 10 жыл бұрын
Eman Puedama You wrote: "I think I can be fairly sure that you are rejecting dualism and so that would leave out the possibility of our continuance of minds in a purely mental state, awaiting the next 'whirlpool'" I reject dualism as a final explanation, but I am not sure about the implications you write. Perhaps some important aspects of our differentiated (i.e. localized) personal identities do survive physical death. I say that the body is a (partial) image of our personal 'unconscious' psyche. But it need not be the _complete_ image. There is no guarantee that we can see the complete image of localization (i.e. the entire whirlpool, with all its levels) with our ordinary sense organs. Although what we do see (the body) does dissipate upon death, maybe crucial elements that we don't see do not dissipate. Perhaps large, invisible parts of the personal 'unconscious' remain intact and form another lower-level whirlpool afterwards. I don't know. But I do make clear in the book that I am open to this possibility, and I discuss this possibility in some length. If you haven't read the book, I encourage you to do so, because you are asking very relevant questions that are addressed in it.
@bernardokastrup
@bernardokastrup 10 жыл бұрын
Eman Puedama There's absolutely nothing stupid in your questions. It's funny you should even say so, given hat the questions are very subtle and go to the heart of the matter; i.e. they are very smart questions. Anyway, I sympathize with he Buddhist notion that, ultimately, there is no personal self, only the one Self. Attachment to personal identity is, I think, the one source of suffering, which is the Buddhist philosophy too. That said, I don't think localization of consciousness is useless, or an accident, or inconsequential. Self-reflectiveness and localization go hand-in-hand, as I explain in the book. I think there is an important point, a meaning, a purpose behind it. And in that sense I sympathize with the Egyptian perspective. I don't think one perspective contradicts the other; they just look at the same reality from two different angles.
@gerontodon
@gerontodon 10 жыл бұрын
***** Thank you. I'm not sure I quite get it yet, but I might well buy your book and see how you explain it there. If not, I'll request it at the library, and _they'll_ buy it on my behalf :)
@bernardokastrup
@bernardokastrup 10 жыл бұрын
Eman Puedama Fantastic :)
@chrisdistant9040
@chrisdistant9040 Жыл бұрын
Being fond of inversions, Bernardo soon started writing by rubbing paper against pens, exclaiming „we’ve been doing it all wrong, people!“
@eskede4733
@eskede4733 Жыл бұрын
Ass.
@daithiocinnsealach1982
@daithiocinnsealach1982 3 жыл бұрын
Great ideas, but when you start attacking materialism as boloney and mad the phrase "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" comes to mind. Let your arguments do the convincing. You come across as religious sounding with such an attitude. Having once been a Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian I know this attitude only too well. I much prefer the attitude of the humble seeker. Not that I have attained it either.
@daithiocinnsealach1982
@daithiocinnsealach1982 3 жыл бұрын
Also Donald Hoffman is essentially an Idealist but would disagree with you that colours, tastes etc are real. It would be very interesting to have you two discuss your differences and commonalities.
@skemsen
@skemsen 5 жыл бұрын
This does not make any sense.
@chazbuck9330
@chazbuck9330 5 жыл бұрын
You right, your statement dosent make sense! You're the guy to listen to. :)
@JappaKneads
@JappaKneads 4 жыл бұрын
So making no sense makes it false....
@SeekingI
@SeekingI 3 жыл бұрын
You missed the end of the sentence, you mean this does not make any sense... to you. I understand perfectly.
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