If my recollection is correct, Lady Dustin explicitly states that Wyman only eats and drinks food and beverages he brought with him, therefore he isn’t bound by guest right in Winterfell at all.

The origins of guest rights predate the rat cook. The rat cook was cursed BECAUSE he violated guest rights. If guest rights weren't a thing when he did what he did he wouldn't have been cursed.

"My Son came to the twins a guest, he ate Lord Walder's bread and salt and hung his sword along the wall to feast with friends, and they MURDERED him, murdered I say. And may the Freys choke up their fables." -Wyman MOTHERFUCKING Manderley, the single biggest chad north of the Neck. And are we even surprised he is bending the knee before the One True King?

The breaking of guest right is a grave sin, an affront to the Old Gods, and the New. And the ancient powers are waking, "the trees have eyes again."

"The balls on Wyman; no wonder he can't ride a horse" Liam comes up with the best freaking lines

That even tywin is happy to let the freys take the credit 😂

Given all the weird magic stuff we've seen in this story, a legit curse definitely isn't something people should rule out 😅

Even the savage Wildlings North of the Wall hold it sacred.

Walder Frey literally cursed his entire House for petty revenge. And some fools consider him an actual player 😂

War is war, but killing a man at a wedding? Horrid.

In the books Wyman is lowkey an absolute savage..his fierce loyalty to the Starks is unbelievable

The Guest Right gig-and the Freys. I don't think it is a coincidence that the Freys have a 'rat-like' look about them and Walder Frey has SO many children. After Stevron dies-Walder goes ALL OUT Rat King.The Red Wedding IS the Rat King story ALL over again playing out, lowkey.

The stongest dieties in planetos: the godess of poetic irony and the god of plot armor

Even the gods thought Joffrey had it coming.

"When have the iron born ever gotten anything right?!" I cackled in my car hearing this. I'm not gonna lie

“We need the last two books, GEORGE!” YES!!🙌

"But since when are the Ironborn right about anything" 🤣 Amazing

The way honour is such an important part of Game of thrones has me thinking it's more like a law rather than divine punishment, feels like it's made for the lords to do business in safety, just later adopted by everyone else because it makes sense to keep track of who you can trust in a world that seems so easy to die, love the video and look forward to seeing what's next.

"Fun" fact about how Wyman's pies are allegedly pork pies: according to IRL interviews with people who have eaten human flesh (in some cultures, to eat one's deceased relatives was the greatest symbol of familial love because the deceased are strengthening their surviving family members, and the surviving family members are honoring their deceased relatives by accepting that gift,) human flesh tastes very similar to pork (hence why the euphemism for it that dates back centuries is "long pork" or "long pig.") So maybe Wyman knew that and he claimed they were pork pies so that as the others were eating them, the taste would be similar to what they were expecting

Guest Right and the taboo against kinslaying are basically the only 2 things that everyone, from the Wall to the Summer Sea, from the Sunset Sea to the Narrow Sea, ALL agree upon.

HAHAHA! "But since when are the Iron Born right about anything?" Hehehehe, banger!

Another cool note about this theory: multiple times, castles and keeps are referred to as being “woven” with ancient and powerful magic that protects it from outside influence or magic, such as Melisandre needing to be within the walls of Storm’s End to make the shadow baby work… Guest Right might have a lot to do with the magic of the actual locations and what the simple ritual of guest right sort of “trigger” inside the walls. Just a little spice on the theory! Great video!

The Rat King story is definitely the oldest account of Guest Right, but given that the First Men held and continue to hold it sacred as well (even moreso than the Andals,) and the First Men came to Westeros thousands of years before the Andals, it almost certainly predates the events of The Rat King by a significant margin, and either weren't honored in legend before the legend of the Rat King, or the legend(s) have been lost to the mists of time.

I think Arya robbing the hound isn’t guest right revenge it’s just her leaving him for dead since he’s still on her list even though he’s protecting her and she’s robbing him because why leave valuable silver

I LOVE your Magic Pact theory. Never thought of that but it makes so much sense!

Spontaneous blindness? It's the bitter drink that Arya is given every night that keeps her blind and she understands she can refuse it and regain her sight in the morning.

Moral of the video: If you live in westeros, betray people you fed only if you're just about to die. Effectively sending a message to the gods as a bonus.

I chalked up Guest Rite's retributions to idiots tempting fate. Pushing kids out windows and slaughtering the groom's family and friends at a wedding reception invited retaliation, even when the deed was done in secret (like with Jaime). It's not necessarily the Gods responding to the deed, but the inevitable reaction to such things. Bran fell despite being a great climber. This raises questions. The Starks were slaughtered at the Red Wedding in a manner lacking subtlety, inviting rebukes from the Faith as well as other lords throughout the Riverlands and North.

I'm pretty sure this falls under the power resides where you think it does. For a long time this was a rule that kept the peace. Anyone who was caught breaking it had major consequences. It tried friends to enemies swiftly. I would say the gods didn't have much to do with it

Cold Hands is confirmed to not be Benjen Stark as far as the books are concerned. That was a show only thing

Watching some scenes from the show I just realized how cool it would be if Hafthor played the role of Hodor instead of The Mountain

I really like it being a sort of magic ritual that binds guest and host, I'll use it in dnd campaigns for sure

Ok you finally sold me -- on the part about Guest-right being the ONLY force in SOIAF that has a tangible, predictable result re-balancing the justice. That's something to fear no matter where it comes from, especially in an un-just world.

Baelish is an enigma.. outside of time and consequences 😂

In ancient Greek culture there's this thing called "Xenios Zeus", which basically meant protection for a guest. Every house had a shrine dedicated to Xenios Zeus and it was regarded as a great hubris to not uphold it. I think that's what inspired Martin.

Another great video guys, absolutely love it. Also, liam is just so carasamatic with his voice could listen for hours. Keep it up guys you deserve so much !!

After the mutiny at Crastor’s Keep, their were nine surviving mutineers, Ollo Lophand, Clubfoot Karl and Dirk among them, their would have been ten, one of Lark’s cousins, but he broke his neck from a fall while chasing one of Crastor’s wives, later five of the mutineers were killed by Coldhands, with Ollo Lophand being confirmed among their number by a one handed corpse being seen through Summer’s eyes, since Coldhands was originally a member of the Nights Watch and the Mutineer’s killed several of their own black brothers during the mutiny, Ollo in particular killing Lord Commander Mormont, their deaths at the hands of an undead Ranger doing the bidding of both Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest, and by extension, the Old Gods as well, is very fitting end for them, especially since afterwards their remains were eaten. As for the remaining four, of which might or might not include Clubfoot Karl and Dirk, we still don’t know exactly what happened to them, they could still be alive at Crastor’s, but given that they have now lost over half of their original numbers, it’s quite possible that Crastor’s wives could have overpowered them and slaughtered them as well, and even if they haven’t, I don’t see them lasting long when the Others eventually show back up at Crastor’s Keep, expecting a new baby to transform into an Other and they mutineers will have none to offer, besides their own bodies as future Wights.

Great video, fully convincing, but you might have strengthened your case by mentioning 'the one that got away' - Renly's peach. Had Stannis bitten the peach, he would have inadvertently accepted guest right and would not have 'fathered' the shadow baby.

I’m afraid it turns out you’re really good at these fan theory videos. My condolences.

Man you guys gotta make some more theory videos this was awesome! It makes me wonder is there any instances before the show where people took revenge after guest right was broken?

Little finger died grasping at his throat just like Joffrey

jaime didnt kill bran, so the gods only returned the favor and maimed jamie of the same hand he pushed bran out with and crippled the boy.

Technically, Craster broke guest right first by attacking Karl. Karl was just defending himself. Would the gods have considered Karl's verbal insult to be enough to break guest right first?

Olenna doesn't violate guest rights. It was her food and Joffery's home. Joffery didn't give her guest rights... Jaime doesn't break guest rights either as you cannot harm your host or guest within the walls and Bran is outside and the ruins are no longer used. Technicalities FT!

Tanner also gets a sword through the mouth, like he did Craster. If the rat cook was a member of the Nights Watch how does he have children to consume in the first place. Aren't they forbidden from fathering children.

I only recently got into GoT (was too young to watch when it came out) and I'm enjoying it a fair amount but I'm constantly in a state of understanding amusement at the rage of "WE STILL NEED THE LAST TWO BOOKS GEORGE"

The manderlys are faithful to the starks. Since we know magic exists in this world, and it's resurgence since the rebirth of danys dragons, i totally buy into the curse

Karl fookin Tanner did not brrak guest right. It was Kraster who attacked first, technically Karl just killed him in self defence

16:12 on the topic of theology in ASOIAF, Many of the actors did some readings of narration one of my favorites was Jorah Mormont talking about the statues of the gods in Vaes Dothrak starting with the Horse Gate kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sJmSdJRksbG3qIk.htmlsi=vmv9CSlKXDI4Zsxw "through it is the god's way, where the Dohtraki dragged the sacred idols of the cities and peoples they have broken, on one side, stone gods look down on you from cracked thrones with chipped and stained faces, their names lost to time. Across the road monsters watch you pass, black iron dragons with jewels for eyes, roaring griffons, maticores with barbed tails poised to strike and other terrible beasts from every corner in Esos. But there is nothing to fear, if these gods and devils had any power, it never would have ended here." so very matter of fact and poignant, the disillusionment alone is romantic. and for those that want to correct me that the video is talking about religions in Westeros, i circle back to the timestamp where the question was about religion within the ASOIAF universe, and remind you that R'hllor was from Esos

I’m confused. Roose Bolton wasn’t stabbed. He was poisoned by his enemies.

I do not believe the gods or even prophecy is real in the ASOIAF universe but people in the universe believe they do, rheagar believes in prophecy and that drives him to manipulate Lyanna and start Robert’s rebellion. The gods may not exist but people do believe in guest right and will now be coming for the Frey’s (even those who weren’t involved) with vengeance on their minds either way

Even if "gods" don't exist, that doesnt preclude the existence of very powerful humans (or Children etc) acting as gods. Maybe time-traveling Bran is just punishing everyone who breaks guest right because of what it did to his family.

Guest right appears to me the kind of magic law kinda thing that either just kinda exists the same capacity as Threshholds for vampires due to the inherent intent Ppĺ have respected it so long that it _is_ and you cant just violate it because either the universe will punish you or other people will punish you Magic reinforced karma, basically

I feel like people are being overly critical of Walder Frey. Sure he's nasty about it, but he's basically playing the same game the other lesser houses are. He tried to marry off a daughter to potentially the next king, when that failed he shifted allegiances, married a daughter off to the soon-to-be new Warden of the North, and got in good with the ruling family of Westeros. Sure, he lacks the cunning, charm, or hygiene of the Tyrells, but he's not that different.

GRR martin is watching this going "yeah, I mean't to do that... what of it?"

Great video I love the concept of guest right in game of thrones!

The old gods and the lord of Light definitely exist in ASOIAF. I do agree magic has alot to do with it.

Can Olenna Tyrell violate guest right if it is ALL her food, etc?

Great video keep it up you're doing amazing things 😁💯

Joffrey and Little Finger both die clawing their throats and choking on their blood.

Where did the great commanders video go? Demonitazion?

I've got to say I disagree with the conclusion that the God's of Westeros do not exist. As you say about R'hllor at least that the followers do have legit abilities that others do not. The combinations of prophecy and resurrection alone suggest there is some entity or force that gives them power. Now some of what Mel does (the shadow baby) is more general magic, but the bringing back of Stoneheart and Beric is kind of out there compared to everything else. It all hinges on what you mean by a God. In ASOIAF it seems to be a term applied to some sort of entity with abilities beyond human powers able to be called upon for favours. The only question is if the force that gives priest of R'hllor power is an entity of some other kind of force. Is there a mind there. If so then it fits that definition of a god. Now whether the characters are right about the Gods, or the Gods being benevolent, is a separate question. I think it does kind of fit the aesthetic of the world that the most probably real God is a complete prick who wants human sacrifice.

Manderly is not skating a fine line. He gave them Guest Gifts-Barbrey is behind THAT sweet loophole move. Manderly brings ALL his own food and fodder to Winterfell and NO hostages. Ie will not be breaking Guest Right. And hey! Take a closer look at those nice little ponies Barbrey gave the Frey Boys. In text, Manderly does not plan on living much longer at all and he has set HIS part of THE plan in motion before he ever leaves White Harbor. I'm gona skip to the Gods/Old Gods but I had to say, Barbrey is behind almost all of the North plotline currently. She is even starting to figure out how LF is screwing her with the Fake Arya. So the Gods. They exist to the characters in text-but they are in fact Game Masters of a sort. The House of the Undying, in text, was also a GM. THAT Heart. Another is in the cave where Blood Raven and Bran are in text currently. Guest Right exists for the same reason the other FEW basic rules exist in text...to further the Game. So the Players have neutral ground to meet on, etc. In text-there are Rules set down throughout. A few Unbreakable Rules that are SO important to the Game that to transgress offends BOTH Gods AND Man. THOSE Rules are Game Rules. In text tere are 2 stories playing out-one is the surface 'reality' and the other is the Game. You have to Know YOUR Name to start Playing. Little Finger spells it out for Sansa on his boat after Joff dies. Theon as well in his last chapters. There are 'hidden' GM's in text and THESE are also the God's. Euron is a character who is finding these God's/GM's and killing them. Dany has killed a couple..and Bran and Arya are about when the books pick back up. Bran is going to kill BR/the Children in that cave and Arya is going to take out the HoBaW. Pretty sure Euron just took out Starry Sept by the end of Forsaken chapter. He says only old women left in Oldtown/the Reach so yeah-that region has fallen. That's gona be a few more Gods/GM's gone. These books are genius like crazy fun-I think it might be why so many peeps get confused. Because it is hard to just accept that it is SUPPOSED to be literally insane to read. It is insanity laid out beautifully in a way that would make Lewis Carroll, C.S Lewis and Terry Pratchett practically jealous. Honestly-most authors should be SO impressed with this ENTIRE storyline. Nothing like this has ever been written SO well.

Great video!

When is Guest Right allowed to be revoked? What if a guest has overstated their welcome by a few months? What if they keep raiding the pantry without ever contributing and they sleep on the couch all day? There has got to be a limit to how much hospitality you are required to provide 🤷‍♀️

I love how grrm does the horrors of war i dont like it but it's real we suffer when the elite play at war

Hello, I hope you don't mind me bringing this up, but I think you Best Commanders video got taken down. Can't seem to find it anywhere, and I loved that video.

Great vid. Yeah, I follow a similar train of thought about the gods. More likely it is a moral of respect passed down. Other than fantastic elements like magic and dragons, it is a world not too different to our own, at least at a human level.

the coping is strong in the asoiaf comunity

What about Bloodraven inviting the Blackfyre heirs to KL under a peace banner and then having them executed? I feel like they broke bread and salt when they arrived, am I misremembering...? Interesting that someone with such intimate knowledge of magical forces in the world would disregard this so brazenly and then go on to magically outlive everyone of his time.

On the Gods and Magic point, at what point does that make a difference? Maybe the Magic users that cause the evidence of the Old Gods are the old gods? And on the point of Goerge being too good a writer to betray the arc of his narrative, I don't think he has a choice, the story demands the narrative arc of anarchy be betrayed.

Weren’t the Wights created by the Children of the Forest(who worshipped the Old gods) the ones who created them during their war against the First Men or was that a show only thing that was revealed?

Yo how did you animate Lord Maderly lol

Fun video guys!!!!

Question.. Is high garden in king landing? Would Olana's family be there?

Got the 👑!

What real world taboo do you think is just as powerful and reviled as breaking guest right? 🤔

Yes I think the asoiaf gods are real but I’m not sure in which form they exist but I think it will be some kind of earth bound being or beings with a visible form. Not an invisible entity that resides in heaven like a lot of the gods of our world. Obviously these gods will have some kind of magic. I do think they are influencing people and events. Like when they find the wolves and Bran getting crippled for example.

who are the strongest gods in game of thrones there a list for you. you have the lord of light, the 7 , old gods , gods of winter , drown god and thats just westeros

You forgot that Carl F-ing Tanner put a knife in Crastas mouth and then, Jon put a knife in Carl F-ing Tanners mouth. Good video, but you forgot so...1 star, better luck next time.

My dumb but thought that the lord of light, the faceless man god, the great other were all part of the same religion. I am saying that because in pagen religion are more than one god/goddess.

Wyman Manderley is a fucking badass

"Frote" 😀

Wouldn't the unique existence of Lady Stoneheart itself be proof that it's a thing?

@The Fandome can you make a what if danny won the game of Thrones?

You missed the biggest evidence that the drowned god and all the gods are real: patchface

The gods are just powerfull magic user of the time. Like imo dany ending is that she replace the 7 as the mein 7 kingdom goddes.

Did Dany break Guest Right at The House Of The Undying??????

HI TOHM

I don't know if the gods exist but magic does and magic don't like breaking guest right!!!

Don't debunk your own theory!

Even if there are absolutely no gods in the World of Ice and Fire, Karma sure AF does. Maybe in the form of the pact you mentioned, but it does exist. It exists in our world, I'm 100% certain of this, so why cant it be in Planetos?

Guest Right is CRINGE, Walder did nothing wrong

George is a crap writer.

The old gods DO exist. Theyre the spirits and memories of greenseers haunting the zombie trees. Though not literal gods, they are effectively immortal and all knowing capable of warging to change the fate of those living, perhaps even punish