Simple, don't do live action Space Marines. Pick a 40K horror novel or short story and tell those stories. Keep them grounded, keep them human and have the Space Marines be what they should be to most of the Imperium, a sight they might see once in their short miserable life.

I initially never got into fantasy because as a kid that got into the hobby through 40k there was only so much that my mum would buy for me. which is why it stung that on my return to the hobby as an adult i found out the fantasy army (tomb kings) that i always wanted was removed. So the fact that they are back and i no longer have to spend hundreds for a few units has made the child in me ecstatic

More Warhammer Fantasy? Yes please. 5th edition was "my edition" in the same way that 3rd was my edition of 40k.

Building some Mantic Goblins as I watched this video. No way am I getting back into rank and flank at full GW prices.

The reason for the legacy factions is quite corporate. The Old World and the AoS team each has their P&L sheets, so they are stuck in a fist fight over who gets to sell which miniature ranges. So the 6 legacy factions already have new AoS ranges, or are getting one soon.

I do love the old late 80s and 90s minis as that's was when I got into WHFB. The Empire (which I didn't collect) always looked good esp the Reiksguard heavy armoured foot knights - loved the look of those minis 😂. But one of my favs and I wish they do an updated version was the Original Keeper of Secrets with it's Bull head would love to see a updated version of thst classic miniature.

Honestly, it looks like it could be a solid win for GW. Fans old and new get to dive into the "glory days" of years gone by, and GW gets to flog old sculpts again with a 1000% profit margin. It may be a solid win-win. I think it really depends on how the initial sales figures are. I think that good sales will prompt more armies being brought out of retirement, which will mean more profits, and so on. However, once to profit train stalls, it probably won't get started again, especially early on. I have no interest in either Tomb Kings or Bretonnians, but I might pick up a box or two for conversion purposes just to give GW a pat on the back for bringing back a thing I like.

I feel, quite cynically, that the IP stuff is one of the reasons they're doing the Old World. Vermintide and Total Warhams have done very well compared to a lot of GW licensed games, even compared to 40k games and WFRP 4th Ed has done about as well as it is possible for a non-DnD TTRPG to do in the 2020s. By comparison Age of Sigmar has sort of struggled outside the arena of tabletop wargaming. I think, when they did the End Times there was a major underestimation of how it was the game of 8th Edition WHFB that people didn't like and not the IP of Warhammer Fantasy and the Old World is less a really serious attempt to make a 3rd mainline game and more a way to keep control and relevance on an IP that has proven that it is actually quite popular.

If you gave me an AOS army i'd sell it on eBay. I have the pieces of 9 30k/40K armies mostly to build and paint (not a huge fan of the rules) but will never spend a dime on AOS regardless of how good people tell me it is. I grew up on WHFB. As soon as they announced it I started digging my piles of metal out of storage and will probably buy every new plastic High Elf or Ork kit that comes out. I think bringing it back was genius especially since they can utilize older molds.

if you count Dogs of War - 18 factions in Warhammer

Funny, i find centerpiece models the most off-putting thing about AOS. Minis not macros

I don’t mind the older minis for a mass combat game. I’ve painted hoard armies for AoS and it stops being fun with all the detail on newer models. Theres also a lot of old sculpts coming back that can get without paying eBay prices 😊

Small note on a small part of the video, a Warhammer fantasy 'Baldurs Gate 3' *will* happen. We just got a (pretty darn good i might add) video game adaption of the 40k Rogue Trader system by Owlcat, the guys who had previously done the Pathfinder video games (wrath of the righteous also being a pretty good game.) I would be extremely surprised if they dont intend to next do a Warhammer fantasy roleplay video game.

More fantasy content please! I’d love to see some coverage of wfb 1-3

Sees thumbnail silhouette: "Oh hey! 4th edition Felix!"

The pork pie stand at salute XD has me in stiches

One of the best Warhammer channels around. This place needs more support!

8:40 I think that was actually one of the big problems with Warhammer Fantasy as a wargame. The setting was quite literally written for an RPG, not a wargame like AOS or 40k were.

About a month ago I started playing total war warhammer 3. I was kind of sad that what I was learning of the world from that game was not the same of age of sigma, so finding out there semi reviving the old world makes me happy.

I'd love to see more WHFB stuff; I was not going to get into it, I was actually planning to maybe get into Kings of War this year (albeit at 10mm scale so I wouldn't even be helping mantic with their stock problem >.>) but then I found a great deal on The Old World core rules & Forces of Fantasy books (which give me rules for my own (dwarves) and all my friends armies (Bretonnia & High Elves... theres also a skaven player but they're getting a PDF). Along with seeing some rules previews and really liking what I was seeing I'm now getting back into TOW and starting an escalation league with my friend group in April.

2:20 You did not just call Lurpak for butter, THAT is the most controversial opinion in this video

Your point about “well if you don’t wanna play in a tournament or doesn’t matter’ falls flat if any of the excluded factions get bad rules, because that’s all they’re getting.

I love your vids man :)

As someone who didnt get a chance to play fantasy i am very much invested into olaying the old world. I hate the modern 40k rat race thats is full of cukt of the new people who only care about pretty bee plastics and are scared of metal. I dont mind the older kits because i never got a chance to have them and use them.

Never new how much I wanted a skaven assasins creed game until I watched this.

More warhammer fantasy please. Love the tone of your work as well. Nice and relaxed and funny sounding. Great work!

More WFB coverage please! Love your vids, really takes me back to the days ofme yoof. Started playing at 3rd ed, but have 1st & 2nd as well (they were much cheaper to collect in 1989). I think GW has held back Dark Elves so that if TOW goes well, there's strong factions for "phase 2". Skaven as well. Remember, they're having production issues keeping up with all the new 40k, Epic, & Sigmarine stuff, so only so much production time can go to TOW.

Hit the nail on the head on so many points. Ill add one to center piece models. Making cannons less deadly and combining stats on monster mounts will help sell big models. Also with LotR running its coarse for various reasons and total war warhammer doing so well its time to switch there IP focus

I am quite happy to leave rank and flank wargames as something I played in my youth, but I do have a fondness for the Warhammer world and it's interesting to watch the old-new game as it progresses from development and hype into reality.

Dark Elves did nothing wrong.

I love some old fantasy, I look forward to seeing more whilst I work on some bug hat chaos dwarfs

Felix and Gotrek, Drachenfels, Kal Jericho or Gaunt's Ghosts would all be far better for adaption to TV or film over Space Marines or Horus Heresy as they have characters that are easy to identify with if you're not familiar with the lore (the demographic that will determine if a new franchise is actually going to be successful and make money for the producers). IMO most people are going to find it an easier sell to empathise with a jobbing wannabe bard and disgraced human than an 8 foot tall brainwashed superhuman fanatic. Plus those franchises have far more scope for some much needed humour (albeit occasionally dark) to offset the grimdark which could turn a series into a slog if overdone.

😂 Loved the Mid-Winter Minis cameo 😂

Thanks for the run through mate, good video and plenty to ponder on, and I think you nailed the points pretty well, and yes, it would be good to see you run through the Old World books

I was just pondering the other day how a lot of the Old World early promo stuff centered around Kislev and the it disappeared. It never dawned on me the scope of the game shrank as it developed!

I am very interested in learning what GW is going to consider successful. They look to have been much more flexible on scale compared to the days of dreadfleet stock being destroyed in front of the employees that made it.

Would love to see Warhammer Fantasy content - some battle reports from 4th/5th edition would be fantastic

Oh I would love to see some of those old Warhammer battle reports played out again.

(Leaning out of closet) Good video.

Selling out at launch doesn't really mean anything if you don't know how much stock there was to begin with. You could say the Yeomen sold out at launch despite their absurd price but if there were only 100 boxes of them available they're still not necessarily popular.

More space marines!… wait, sorry… more Fantasy! Olden Demon is creeping up! Better start getting that hunk of metal ready.

I have all my old fifth edition stuff stripped and in the middle of repair and yes, I’m painting them all multiple colours

I have old fantsy armies out the ears and If this means I might get some more games in with them im incrediably excited. If it fails, well at least I got the motivation to paint my old models for a few weeks.

GW can't writer rules, never could, never will.

Yes! Cover old fantasy battle reps from white dwarf!

Yes more WHFB, please!

Honestly, while it's... different source material for a TV show than an existing book, the Enemy Within campaign from WHFRP has the potential to be a really good show outline.

I'd be supper hyped. If I didn't know I would be priced out from the start.

Thanks for the video! Nice! I think the most important thing to know about why certain armies and factions were relegated to, "Legacy," armies and not included in the core books is almost certainly because of the need to segregate product lines for corporate accounting reasons. How do you measure if a box is selling because of The Old World or Age of Sigmar? Do the different departments not want to step on each others toes? The logic might not make complete sense to us, but it's the most probable reason. This does mean that we can predict a few things. Out of the list of legacy factions, Vampires, Daemons and Lizardmen have corresponding Age of Sigmar factions that have refreshed their entire model range. Ogre Kingdoms and Skaven don't really have any refreshed models yet, but they have seen support in some Underworlds models, and the big rumour is that Skaven will be the big antagonist faction of the Age of Sigmar 4th edition launch box. But what about Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarfs? (Always Dwarfs, never Dwarves!) These two don't really have any corresponding AoS factions, with only a few lore and direct references in certain models. (Horns of HASHUT warband, Iron Golems warband has helmeted Chorf model, Hobgrot Slittaz are traders between Greenskins and Chorfs, so have Chorf currency on their banner and models, have sulphur grenades, yellow skin almost certainly because of sulphur exposure) So this is why a lot of people have predicted that Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarfs will get new factions in Age of Sigmar. The shadow realm of Ulgu and Dark Elves has been touched on very rarely, it feels super conspicuous in the way of real estate marked for future construction. My big question is whether they're going to keep the Malekith name, or stick with their new copyrightable name of Malerion. I hope the model looks great. Disney/Marvel also had their king of the Dark Elves named Malekith around the same time in the 80s, it mostly seems like a case of how we got two Dennis the Menace on two sides of the Atlantic ocean. But GW blinked first and backed down from the legal hit squad of the mouse, which is fair enough. Also it seems like GW may have had to inevitably make the decision of changing all their unit names to be Copyrightable unique spellings like Aelves and Duardin and Orruks. The Pathfinder RPG setting is also undergoing a similar gutting, they're paranoid about D&D going after them.

Great video mate, you earned a subscriber.

I really enjoy these videos 😊

a lot of us dont want the massive centre pieces and stuff back most of us just want the fantasy world and all its characterful sculpts back. like i see younger generation a few complaining about skeletons and stuff. i actually want those daft skelly sculpts back. so i get that its dividing its fanbase a bit. i love fantasy but want it to remain more realistic and less far fetched like AoS.

I'm hooked! I want to find out what happens to Jane Doe?! Why is Jane's house so poorly maintained? Does she secretly live in my house? Am I the Ghost?! I wonder if Olden Hammer is planning on running a painting competition this year? If only Olden Hammer didn't play his cards so close to his chest. Thanks for another enjoyable video.

So what was the genius part I feel like I watched the whole thing and didnt quite get what it was.

It's not going to be Space Marines. It's going to be Eishorn.

i think GW have been taken a back by how popular WHTOW is. im all for it. as someone who still plays 8th, im ready to take up this new game

I got time this Saturday, so if you want to just spend a few hours or 20 then I am down to listening to ALL your ideas.

I believe that GW can support about a dozen factions in TOW, they just don’t want sales split between races that have been ported over to AoS.

Killing Warhammer and makeing everyone angry ... just to bring it back later. What a clever move from Games Workshop.

For a tv film series... Gaunts Ghosts... it's just Sharpe in space.

So I was rooting around my bits box to see if I had any old fantasy models… I have the Ice Queen and Karl Franz! I may build an army just to flex if she is out of print 😊

I skipped out on Warhammer Old World, mostly due to being determined to get to my pile of shame this year, but between this and Epic I am curious how much GW's new approach to nostalgia is going to pay off. I also wonder how easy it's going to be to make a Warrior of Chaos army using exclusively age of Sigmar models and how much connection there is going to be between the two systems considering how hard they turned that off regarding 30k and 40k.

I have two sets of the galloper gun... I still need two

AoS minis are so overdesigned. Thats the main turn off for me, tbh. That they did my favourite fantasy world dirty is actually only a secondary thing...

More warhammer fantasy please. I am totally not biased on there being Dogs of War content either.

I mean, Seraphons have Lord Kroak and various massive monsters, while Cities have Thalia, as well as Gryphons and dragons, i count those as centerpieces models.

I agree with many of the things you said in this video. I was just disappointed not having Skaven in TOW. I already collect 3 of their games systems, so I'm okay not going to a 4th...

Great vid. ❤

MOAR!

I would love to see more warhammer Fantasy content!

I get the feeling that all the Old World stuff sold out fast on the GW site because they had 10 of each. Whether thats true or not doesn't matter much to me; I got my rulebook and most of my Lizardmen when they were slightly less expensive.

More Warhammer Fantasy would be great. I really enjoy the system and the old models bring back a lot of nostalgia for me. Please if you could maybe create a video on the Gathering of Might large multiplayer battle in White Dwarf many years ago that would be even better. I'm really excited for Old World's release and I enjoyed this vid. Thanks!

im hoping for them to remake dogs of war stuff and i loved those mini's and my god the price on ebay for them is nuts

Brilliant insight. Thanks!

Im going to start a chaos army wish me luck

I just clicked at the thumb nail I was for sure this was a video by Jordan😅

That porkpie comment got me...

Hearts of Iron but Warhammer sound great. Also, Gotrek and Felix would have been the best thing GW could do. But I doubt GW is that smart

As a mostly digital warhammer fan, I don't want more vermintides and WHTWs... Play the older Total War games, or L4D and you'll see immediately how short of the mark those GW tie in games actually are.

(EDIT: twins(!) not child): Disappointed to see Midwinter Minis mentioned. Guy (the host of Midwinter Minis) abandoning his new born *twins* and then wife (and at the time co-presenter in Midwinter minis videos) for a new women -- and then bringing this new women into Midwinter mini videos -- seemed at the time, and still does, really quite shockingly poor behaviour.

I am excited for old world, that said I might not be that profitable. I will buy every book they print, but I will buy mostly from eBay. My army is 5th-7 metal HE. My OG are from all additions but the only thing I am planning is getting some more sqigs and perhaps a huge spider for gobo shaman gen.

I was hoping the orcs & goblins would get a multi part Center peace models like the tomb kinda & bretionians

Still just going to say how happy i am to be able to buy tomb kings again. I wanted them when i was a teenager and 8th ed came out, but i couldn't afford it. Then they went oop

On the King's of War bit, the game store I go to gave away the rule books for Kings of War for free. And Vanguard. And Mars attacks. And the supplements for Kings of War. I was the only person who took any of them, and Vanguard was a signed hardcover copy.

Yes, please do make more Warhammer Fantasy content 🙂

I just want dark elf reprints

Evwn if it does failz we have the rules now, and they are very good rules. Talking of nostalgia, I was painting the last of my Space Hulk 2nd edition Genestealers while listening to this video. It is a very powerful drive.

Well, while i mostly agree on your points, some are a bit far streched. 1. Supporting 17 factions isn't a Problem in it self. 40k has 21, if we count every Space Marine Faction together as one...^^ 2. They didn't reimagine all of the fantasy stuff for the better. Some things feel like cheap knock-offs. At least in terms of Lore but sometimes the design as well. For me f.e. die Fireslayers can't compete with their originals in both kategories. 3. The Game didn't stop selling because of the Miniature Ranges. It stoped selling because of shifting Focus by GW. As you said, early 2000s Lord of the Rings came out and focused heavily on the same Costumers which, from now on, had to decide on what to spent their money on. With the hype from the Movies and the starting trouble with the other System, LotR came out victorious. GW started to push the Concept of using Rules to push Sales more and more in the same time as well. Wich means, they downgraded Units on purpose to sell others. One Example has been the Imperial Mortar. every Imp Player already had them so GW brought the Rocket Launcher and downgraded the Mortar. In that time the Players haven't been used to that as much as nowadays. And, at last the Players felt cheated by GW. They again and again acted as if the Players could influence the Story but, of course, they could not. The Prime Example for this has been the global Storm of Chaos Summer Campaing mid 2000s, where Archaon the Everchosen pushed for the Old World, the first time... which has been redconed and redone in endtimes. They had an interactive Map where Players could enter their game results to determine the Story of the campaign. That was really cool and everyone was hyped. The "good" Players organiszed globally as "The Conclave of Light" in Forums etc. and decided wich faction should enter wich battlefield and wich "bad" Faction they should face, to play to their strengths. Which by itself, in early 2000s, has been a great feat. Social Media etc. wasn't availeble back then as it is today. Yes i'm old... That worked so well that the Campaign would have been a crushing defeat for Archaon... so GW turned the Switch and magically changed the results on their Campaign Website over night, again and again... If i'm not ready to accept the Results, then don't pretend to... My Point is, the game in it self hasn't been the Problem. Those were the dark times of bad or at least not well timed decisions aka the "Kirby" times. ;)

Oh I get it now, Olden Demon. I’m so dumb.

More superior-hammer please.

That Shity of Shitmar miniatures stands in complete disgrace to the classic, beautiful miniatures of Warhammer Fantasy.

Darke Elves are not problematic, and neither are Ogres... People need to stop being so overly sensitive on other peoples behalf... They are both fantasy factions.

I bought a bunch of warriors of chaos models, the new ones, and bases. I miss warhammer fantasy, but have no desire to buy 26 yearold models.

God these videos are tight and sharp and WONDERFUL. You’re just getting better, keep it up

I grew up reading Fantasy Books and a few years back I was looking to get into any Warhammer World but simply put I didn't find a single AoS army that I was like "YES, I want to start collecting and painting this army" and being a fantasy fan my brain cannot comprehend the word "Space" and orcs, elves or dwarves behind it so 40k was not for me as well. Anyway I was super excited about Old World because it is a classic fantasy setting that I am quite fond of. I believe there might be more people like me out there - those that don't have old miniatures but want to get into the hobby and when the two starter boxes were released it seemed like this product is not at all geared towards new people so you feel left out. I think it is quite obvious that they will release the armies in big boxes like "start collecting" box or the "combat patrol" box in 40k but as a new fan ( never bought a single GW mini) I am very much looking forward to getting the Orcs and Goblins box but if all there is in the box are old 20+ years old models GW will lose me as a client. It seems counter intuitive - you create such hype for the game, people expect Cities of Sigmar level of models and they get old and ugly models and the only reason behind this seems to milk nostalgia or so that older fans of the game can combine their older and new models together and have more coherent army?!? Maybe, I don't know. I believe the older fans of the game would also not mind new models. If all 9 armies are released with older models I think the discontent will be quite big and the game will flop which makes me very sad. I still have hope that at some point we might see Dark Elves and Chaos Dwarves. Anyway I am very much interested in the opinion of people who have the old models on the decisions of GW regarding Old World. Also I want to be clear that I have nothing against the older fans, I know nostalgia ( I am 38 myself) and I am sorry if this is unclear in my comment.

i really tried to dive into Age of Sigmar, but after reading a novel, reading some source books and painting some Minis, i have to admit i do not feel a strong bound to this universe. The AoS map is awkward and Stormcast Eternals still look like Space Marines. i do not feel Age of Sigmar.

Thats Felix that is

Brilliant, more like this please \0/

It was great to see a more balanced / positive video on KZfaq about Old World. Seems like there is a lot of negativity from some KZfaqrs. I would love see more of you delving into Old World and the WHFB history.

Yes, more fantasy please!