Fascinating angle to view the game in. The narrator is trapped. It's not just Stanley. Trapped by devotion to or identification with his work. Hmm... I wish I had thought of that myself.

Yes, great point! That's one of the great opportunities with fourth-wall-breaking stories: you can play with alternative scenarios; you are not forced to follow one thread; the fact that the user has accepted the meta-ness of the narrative means you can experiment even further. I'm glad Stanley Parable plays so readily with that opportunity.

Thanks for watching our video! Yes, 20+ years from now when the final Stanley Parable arrives, remember us as the blind, bitter brother-critics who just couldn't grasp the brilliance. We will reflect on this. We will atone.

@@ToGamesItMayConcern I feel so bad for how much effort you put into these videos that nobody watches, makes me reconsider my fantasies of trying to make a single KZfaq video. I feel even worse that I'm not subscribing because I'm not really looking for a long form video game reviews at the moment. But I really hope that you blow up, and I'll be watching your career with great interest.

@Tech Freak This is a really genuine comment, something I value more than an additional subscription. Thank you for enjoying our work. If you ever feel inspired, I hope you make a video. Do it just for yourself, just to hear your voice onscreen and to know you constructed something carefully. And maybe someone out there you don't expect will latch on to it, and they will enjoy that you were just yourself. That could make it all worthwhile-to know that being yourself was significant for someone else. I keep learning something with each new video. Frankly, it's just nice to sit down with my brother and talk. It's nice to get slowly better at editing and to have the end result be nearer to what I envisioned. And it's nice to receive comments from strangers who somehow connect with what I make. Again, thanks for watching and for your kind comment.

@@ToGamesItMayConcern Well damn... I've also had those fantasies of making a video for a while and now I feel more inspired than I've ever been!

Oh, wow, I have to watch that video. Do you remember what channel you found it on? Thank you for this insight. Really useful to know!

@@ToGamesItMayConcern kzfaq.info/get/bejne/iKueeax7zbylXZs.html

In case the response gets deleted for containing a link, the channel is DougDougDoug.

Awesome, thank you!

I love this comment: it's insightful, specific, and helps re-frame my own view in a respectful way. Thank you. I wonder if some of the criticism I felt at the end of the game ended up being the result of my having played the original Stanley Parable not that long ago and remembering it vividly. Maybe that built up a kind of fatigue at repeating certain sections, since I had so thoroughly repeated those sections prior. I would have loved to be able to have the Ultra Deluxe version be my first experience with Stanley Parable. I wonder if I would've gotten even more out of it (or what if I would've gotten even less). Who knows. There was originally a section of this review discussion wherein my brother and I discussed how different the game would feel if neither of us had played before and that maybe our views on the game have a lot to do with our familiarity with it, but we didn't end up reaching any kind of conclusion on the matter so we cut it out. Frankly, I really wanted to love the Stanley Parable Ultra Deluxe more. I was surprised that I ended up feeling disappointed at the end. I kind of want to blame myself, my own lethargy, instead of the game; the game itself is so rich with symbolism and effort and meaning-How could I blame it? In the least, in spite of whatever obstacles curtail my enjoyment, I appreciate it. I appreciate it a lot.-And I appreciate you coming back to view our thoughts on the matter, too!

@@ToGamesItMayConcern Thank you for the kind words, you are too nice haha. And about the the whole "playing it with a blank slate" speculation, I feel like that if you are interested in game design and know about the current landscape of experimental/narrative games, you won't be particularly impressed by the Stanley Parable UD. I believe that the whole setup of having you "chose" and then showing you how little choice you really have isn't that special or interesting on its own to warrant the game to be some trail-blazing concept, even less now that so many games explored the genre with interesting takes - things like Firewatch, Edith Finch, even The Witness, Before Your Eyes or Scanner Sombre. I'd go as far as to say that a bunch of games tried the whole "narrator is aware of the player" gimmick and fell on their face for relying on cheap 4rth wall-breaking jokes and no substance apart from the aforementioned schtick. (I am looking at you There Is No Game: Wrong Dimension and Pony Island/The Hex) I always felt that what makes the Stanley Parable special is the subtext, specifically the discussion around The Death of the Author from Barthes. I saw that one of your first videos on the channel was about The Beginner's Guide, and I do feel like that Ultra Deluxe expands on what TBG told and the context of its creation and the mental health of its creator Davey Wreden. I don't know how familiar you are with that, he wrote a blog post about it at the time: web.archive.org/web/20170608181241/www.galactic-cafe.com/2014/02/game-of-the-year Davey also talked about it in this presentation: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/oZqdlredrsfVoH0.html In short, what I think happened is that it all started with the uniqueness of having an actual "auteur" making a game as a statement of the video-game landscape and the illusion of concept such as "choice" and "immersion" with the original Stanley Parable. Davey then followed up with The Beginner's guide which was a way to accept his own death as an author after fighting it for so long and being anxious about it. Leading to Ultra Deluxe, which reflects to what legacy is and how the death of the author is in a way the birth of an infinite number of new experiences of all the people discovering or rediscovering Davey's original game that was so dear to him. All in all, what I am saying is that you shouldn't feel bad for being disappointed, it's fair to want something that rekindles this awe-inspiring feeling of trail-blazing discovery! But in a way the game wants you to be at peace with that. No need for some flamboyant new content or crazy revolutionary gimmicks: just appreciate the moment and leave the discourse behind, because the biggest achievement of The Stanley Parable was that it reminded me why I love games so much and why they make you feel something. (Which is harder and harder these days with all the horrible stuff happening in the industry and in the world in general...) Anyways, I rambled quite a bit, hope I am not too verbose in this comment! Thanks for taking the time to read my original comment, and as I said in the last comment, looking forward to the next video!

Thank you! We try our best to fill each conversation with substance, and I'm glad you appreciate what we had to say for this one.

Thank you for this very kind comment. We try our best to be ourselves, and it's great to hear that some people appreciate that.

Great comment! Thank you for thinking so carefully on the subject and giving me something new to chew on. The fact that the bucket is called a 'reassurance bucket' and so we know Stanley gets some deep meaning or value from it (in spite of it just being a 'hollow piece of metal' as you say)-all that fits what you're saying. It's like how we can all become devoted to something that is otherwise literally not giving us anything in return, and yet we obsess over it and grant it meaning (potentially to the point of undoing ourselves). Again, thanks for thinking so much on this!

@@ToGamesItMayConcern You're welcome and thanks for your answer! And yes, it's exactly what you say, and Stanley isn't the only one, as it is shown that pretty much the whole of society is on the same page. I'm not entirely sure what it's trying to commentate on, if anything but apart from what I say in my previous comment perhaps is a critique of consumerism and people losing their heads over the most menial of things just because someone told them that it was valuable. But I guess it's up to interpretation. Ironically I sometimes worry that I might be putting too much thought into terminally hollow experiences, but with this game I feel a little more confident to do that.

You know, sometimes with analysis like this, it's not so much about what the game or novel or film is 'trying to say' in a literal sense; sometimes it's about the relationships you notice, or the patterns that connect to other aspects of life. Like when you play Stanley Parable and notice Stanley's devotion to an object without actual worth, and it feels like an analogy for consumerism, that analogy is true whether or not it's the 'intended meaning' of the game you're analyzing. It just so happens that the relationship occurring in the game accidentally or purposefully touches on something fundamental. In thinking about it, you gain a new way of viewing/experiencing the game, but also a new way of viewing/experiencing those sorts of relationships in life. That's valuable, if only as a practice of careful thought on your part. I think sometimes people feel embarrassed to think hard about things, like there's a risk of being 'wrong,' and unfortunately this can lead to a sort of stagnation of thought, a sort of numbing to the beauty in analogy and connection and focus. Keep thinking. Take joy in it. If a game spurs thoughts of obsession and commodity and excess, dive into those thoughts. See where they take you. I appreciate that you added to the discussion here. Honestly, I'm excited that people are viewing my video(s) and actually feeling inspired to share their thoughts. I just want more thinking, generally, without need for practical conclusions, just the process of it, just for its own sake. Thanks for thinking and for writing your thoughts out.

Haha, yes, in a sense we disappointed you with our disappointment. Though, if it helps, our disappointment stems from our adoration of what is otherwise there.

Ha! Hopefully my comment wasn't too disappointing for you.

Thank you! I'm glad you appreciate that interpretation. It was a somewhat spur-of-the-moment view that came up while recording.

Thank you very much! Depending on how far back you go, you'll notice the mic and editing quality diminish a tad, but I hope you find the core ideas solid throughout. Don't tire yourself out, though! Haha. We should have a new, short, different-sort-of video out tomorrow (Friday) or Saturday. I'm just about done editing it. Comments like yours really help push us to keep creating new material. So thank you for your kind words!

Thank you!

Thank you! Way back in 2016 we made a video on that game, but this was before we edited our audio and the video is quite amateur overall. I had it unlisted, but I just put it back up so you can see it if you're curious. If anything, it will give you a sense of how much our video editing style has changed over the years.

@@ToGamesItMayConcern wow that’s great thank you! Definitely watching it.

Oh, I haven't seen this series of vids yet. Thanks for the rec!

Haha, that's great that you noticed. We should do that game. There's a remake of it that came out like a year ago I think. I love the sound effects. There's something vaguely creepy or unnerving about them.

@@ToGamesItMayConcern There’s like 5 remakes of Myst lmao. Though I wouldn’t play the newest remake or at least do it with a live action mod because they replace the original live action characters with these awful horrible uncanny valley creations. Also the sequel Riven is just as good if not better than the first. It’s kinda just wrong to talk about Myst and ignore Riven.

Great observation. Thank you! And that ties into the sense that whatever we create loses meaning when there isn't someone to receive it: when all society has dwindled away, faded into a lost history, what value does our work of art hold anymore? Creation and reception is a relationship.

The section at the very beginning of the video with the shifting images is in-game, and the music is based on player input (each bang corresponding to when I pressed the button to shift each image). I purposefully did it on-rhythm to make for a musical-ish intro. You'll have to reach that point in the game (by falling down the hole) to do it yourself.

@@ToGamesItMayConcern Ok wauw another surprise that this game gave me. Thanks for the info.

A long time ago we did a review discussion of that game (back in 2016), but only one of us played through it.

Haha, absolutely. But it shows up well on camera.

@@ToGamesItMayConcern still not an awful book by any means, i think it worked best as a more straightforward horror narrative (the parts in the shifting abyss were pretty stand out) and i figured you just used it for the extremely unmissable visual arrangement of the text on the page. either way im always glad when people who make these long form videos on video game narrative/writing etc actually have some awareness of or background with real literature. my go to examples of the genre are always gravitys rainbow by pynchon and the sot weed factor by john barth edit: apologies for the wall of text but i realized i said pretty much nothing of substance about the game itself. i like some of the themes the developer explores in the game, however i am of the opinion games as a medium should generally be mechanically satisfying to actually play, not to say there isn't room for art pieces like this there obviously is, i just hope to see the guy branch out into stuff with a little more depth in the game play department, ideally in a way that informs the narrative or vice versa.

I feel lucky to have read a lot of postmodern lit prior to getting my degree in English: some literary theory muddles the experience, frankly. If I remember correctly, it started with stumbling onto Broom of the System by David Foster Wallace. I was at a Barnes N Noble and the cover was a rare Penguin edition-some artistic sketching-and it sucked me in. Something about Wallace's earnest, almost confessional writing style felt like the birth of a deep weight in my psyche as a reader. One of Wallace's stories references Barth, and so I consumed each of Barth's books soon after, which then led to Barthelme and McElroy (whose books I still find difficult yet fantastic after all these years) and Gass, and then I finally went to college and learned of far more. I say all this for the sake of a recommendation: read William T. Vollmann. He's not strictly postmodern. In fact, I rarely hear him mentioned in postmodern discussions. But he has become my favorite writer, and he strays nearest to recapturing that initial feeling I felt in that Barnes N Noble bookstore all those years ago, that feeling of an author nakedly intimating to the reader the essence of something deep, painful, hidden, yet altogether true. The Atlas, Europe Central, or The Dying Grass are great starting points. As for a balance between symbolism and game design, have you tried Disco Elysium or Inscryption? Both I got to enjoy recently, and both walk that tightrope between art and entertainment nicely. Thank you for bringing books into the comment section of my channel.

@@ToGamesItMayConcern ive had disco elysium recommended a lot but something about it is sort of off putting about it to me, i honestly couldn't tell you what. ive heard good things about Gass and Vollmann, ill pick up europe central sometime. ive currently got an absurd backlog of stuff to read but im sure ill get to it eventually. and yeah im sure dfw was a lot of peoples entry point into post modernism or even more serious fiction in general, infinite jest blew my socks off when i read it in high school lol. I've sort of jumped around randomly from different classic novels, reading whatever seems appealing at the time. some of the ones that really stood out to me as supreme works of genius were hamlet (obviously, but it took me way too long to properly appreciate shakespeare) Don Quixote (basically proto post modern fiction with the novel within a novel) the Brothers Karamazov, the Red and the Black by Stendhal and the aforementioned works of barth and pynchon.