Pinned post for Q&A :)

The theme begins to play, and my little girl jumps up shouting BATTLESHIPS!

"A ship that is the fastest, strongest and best armored is a jack of all trades master of none amd you will only afford 2 of them" yamato and musashi say hi

"Mahanian thinking" as espoused by people who never got Mahan: 1.) Prepare for Decisive Battle. 2.) Have Decisive Battle. 3.) ??? 4.) Profit.

“Coming in second in his class.” Admiral King: Respectable.

I never took it that the base line of Mahan was "single decisive battle." I always took it as "he who controls the sea, wins the war in the end."

Mahan: You must make sure your naval bases are an asset and not a liability that can turn against you. Russian Navy at Port Arthur: какие? HET! (What? No!)

Ok, this perspective on Mahan's writings will now change my course on naval domination in Civilization 5 game playing as Mongolia, thanks Drach for the timing!

I mean, hearing more of a breakdown of Mahan's battle tactics: they're still absolutely taught and utilized today. Dude was ahead of his time in many ways.

Thank you for this. Control of the seas was always his point, not solely decisive battle. People have never read his books so they assume they know. Thank you for bringing this out.

Drach you single handedly make me look forward to Wednesdays, thank you.

The misinterpretation of Mahan is oddly-similar to the same misinterpretations of Clausewitz, whose comments on the primacy of defense were thoroughly-ignored by readers obsessed with his efforts to write about a strong offense. Everyone just assumed since he hadn't finished his book before he died, that he was going to correct his early "error" of the primacy of defense when he put everything together (despite that being one of the only bits that he *had* finished, the first chapter being the only completed one). Just as Japan charged after decisive battle without sufficient consideration towards control of the sea, WWI saw most of its members joining with the belief that strong morale and espirit de corps would somehow defeat a tactically-superior defensive position, despite their inspiration claiming the opposite. And in both cases, the leading torch-bearers for the theories (Japan and Germany) won a great victory against an unprepared opponent to validate these (Franco-Prussian War and Russo-Japanese War).

WWII Japanese interpretation of Mahan Doctrine: "We will concentrate our forces for a decisive battle... BY SPLITTING THEM UP!"

My old US Foreign Policy professor would appreciate this video as he consider's Mahan's book to be one of the most influential books in history, only surpassed by the Bible and Quran. He also stated that Mahan disliked serving on coal fired ships, as the smoke dirtied up white uniforms. No doubt something any sailor could sympathize with.

I wrote my history master’s thesis on the fortification of the Puget Sound in the 1890’s as a result of US overseas ambitions. It was really cool to learn that Mahan was the head of the group of naval officers in charge of scouting locations for what would eventually become the Bremerton naval yard. I discovered lots of primary sources from him. Fascinations stuff.

Holland faced "a Britain shaped problem". Funny and accurate description.

So basically Mahan has a bad reputation because people grossly oversimplify his ideas and when the public looks at the compressed of his ideas they call him dumb . Thank you for showing us that Mahan was leagues ahead of his contemporaries and deserves more recognition for this by the wider public

Mahan literally means 'Great' in Hindi. So atleast whatever impact he had, it was pretty great.

Mahan, Jesus, and so many other great figures of history: "You must consider multiple angles and nuance!" Popular thinking: "No, thank you. We will hold you in esteem, but will distill your excellent thinking down to a single-factor, all-white/all-black decision tree

Mahan: You should set things up to induce the enemy into a decisive sea battle, so you can control the sea. And through control of the sea, you will ultimately win the war, thus maritime strategy is the most important element of your national strategy. Everyone Doing/Teaching Mahan: DECISIVE SEA BATTLE WINS THE WAR.........REEEEEEEEEEEE Mahan: Sigh

Mahan is an example of a historian not only chronicling history, but affecting it. Kaiser Wilhelm II, a disciple of Mahan said. “I am just now not reading but devouring Captain Mahan’s book, and am trying to learn it by heart.” Germany's attempt to build a fleet to rival Britain's was the most significant factor in Britain increasing its own fleet and coming to regard Germany as a threat. It may be that no Mahan, no Jutland.

It would be funny if anyone were remembered for their theories on war which amounted to little more than "it's in your best interest to win".

In reference to bases, and putting too much stock in one in particular, I couldn’t help but think of Singapore in early 1942.

One of the few channels where I’m able to safely click “like” before the video actually starts.

Somehow this seems a most Drachifelian of episodes and I'm almost surprised it wasn't done years ago.

I find it incredible that so many people tune in to listen to sometimes OVER FIVE HOURS of Naval History. ❤️😎💪

Very entertaining and educational. I hope you plan on doing more Soviet Navy videos in the future, if at all possible.

IJN : Decisive Battle USN: How about A Endurance Battle.

Drach, would you perhaps be interested in going trough and breaking down the designs of various ships that appear in the Pirates Of The Caribbean movies. I’d honestly love to what you think of each ship in design and what flaws they would have.

Sir Julian Corbett demands equal time!

I'm always amazed at how great works get synopsized in one, often wrong, sound bite.

"Decisive battle" IJN: _I'll take your entire stock_

"This summary only scratches the surface..." yeah and my head's still hurting anyway! that said though, amazing detail and summary for something so complex. Looks like I need to re-do my creative writing...again

The US Navy has carried on Mahan's habit of running into things in recent years

A well done summarization. An important additional tenet is that "The seat of purpose is on the land." BZ Drach.

"Get decisive battle, ho boom." Love Drachinifel's wit

This is the best single introduction to and analysis of Mahan I’ve ever seen. The illustrative photo selections are likewise perfect. As always, thank you Drach.

This was a really good video. A good explanation of something far more complex that most people just summarize incorrectly. Thank you drak for this great video.

Nothing better than waking up to the sound of Mahan’s impact on naval history

Excellent summary of the Thoughts of Chairman Mahan. I always though a book on his legacy should have been written entitled "The Influence of History on Seapower"

Lol I have a paper due on Mahan and Corbett’s writings next month, perfect timing as always Drach

Well, I've learned a lot more about what Mahanian thinking actually is supposed to be and just how badly many have misinterpreted it. Gotta say the man was a lot more brilliantly analytical than I could have imagined.

I would like to say Thank You, you add just enough humor into your videos to keep it interesting and every video is informative and a learning lesson

Excellent as always, Thanks Drach.

Manhan: creates decisive naval battle theory. IJN: TAKE ALL MY MONEY GOOD MAN!!!!!

Thank you, Drachinifel.

It was enjoyable to hear you talking about a Great Great Great Uncle. Thank you for doing this video.

These are the sort of videos I like from you drach... I learn so much.

@Drachinifel Nice Job, Mate... thank you for all that you do for those of us in the Naval-History Community.

Brilliantly explained, thank you very much!

I didn't realize it until now, but this is the topic I've been waiting for ever since I found your channel

Drach, your research efforts are astounding. Your knowledge, and the many avenues you have to inform the public, is greatly appreciated. I believe your fan base, and any future gains in viewership, would offer you many thankyous and a hope that you keep up the good work. Cheers, mate! (Canada)

Awesome video as always!

I thoroughly enjoyed this one!!!

By far the best narrative voice on YT!

Great topic!! Love it!

Listening to your content while working till 3am. Keep up the great work

Haha decisive battle go boom 💥 brilliant line

A half hour video on Mahan. God I love this channel!

Mahan's books get mentioned in passing quite a lot in international relations theory classes (particularly his influence on strategic thinking around WW1 and 2, but also as a basis for some modern theories/policies), so I appreciate this overview of what he actually says in those books.

Excellent narration.

The impact of serving during the American Civil War can certainly be seen in Mahan's work. A couple of examples off the cuff: 1)The North's blockade of the South certainly helped win the war, and that success was based on the North's superior control of the seas off the South's coasts. Something Mahan would have had plenty of time to contemplate while bobbing up and down in the blockading squadron. 2) Pursuing the enemy after a decisive victory. This lesson could have been learned by Mahan through paying attention to warfare strategy during the war. While not naval in nature, generals McClellan (Antietam) and Meade (Gettysburg) were both widely derided for not pursuing Lee (and a chance to end the war by destroying Lee's army) after their victories. Lincoln must have understood the need to pursue and destroy after a victorious battle. Lincoln's correct belief that General Grant would pursue Lee is why Grant was promoted to lieutenant general, with command over all US armies, and it was Grant's dogged pursuit of Lee's army that ultimately led to the North winning the war. Speaking of lieutenant generals, George Washington understood this basic concept during the Revolutionary War, albeit in reverse, when he realized that as long as he had a viable army in the field, he had not lost the war.

This was very interesting-as is basically all your content!

Mahan lays out what has historically been recipe for victory, but politicians start cooking before checking the ingredient list..

The impression I got of Mahan's thinking was the observation that the important ships - were not your warships - but your merchant ships. The purpose of the warships - was to protect your merchant ships and attack the enemies - but - warships were in and of themselves ... not that useful to a nation. Thus - if you didn't have a merchant fleet or trade using others ships to protect and you didn't have an enemies merchant fleet to attack - you didn't really need a Navy - but if you did - then you did need one. Here - the Japanese did not really understand Mahan. They were amongst those who got the idea that what was important - was the Decisive Battle. Because of this - during WWII - they preserved their main fleet for that Decisive Battle - at the expense of losing earlier battles which the commitment of that fleet might have let them win. More importantly though was their neglect of warfare against the enemies lines of communication and a relatively weak attempt to protect their own. Thus the Japanese commitment of their submarines to trying to sink enemy warships. Here - they did have some major successes - but in contrast to the Germans - made insignificant efforts against Allied Convoys. On the flip side - Japanese ASW was woefully lacking. Here - at the beginning of the war when US torpedoes sucked - this didn't matter so much. Later on when the US got their various torpedo problems sorted ... US submarines were able to eviscerate their merchant ships and largely cut off Japan from the rest of the world. This last resulted in their not merely having a lack of fuel for their war machine but a lack of food for their people. I don't know enough about Mahan to say if this is in line with his thinking but my opinion of nations - is that Maritime Nations such as the US & UK are better strategic thinkers since Naval Warfare is inherently strategic. Land powers tend to lack that quality of strategic thinking. Thus - you have Germany in WWII driving all the way across Russia trying to get to the Oil in the Caucuses (yes I know it's more complicated than that) - when if they'd not attacked the Soviets - but turned the Med into an Axis lake - they could have gotten all the oil they wanted from the middle east - and then - at their leisure - attacked the Caucuses from the south ... In WWI - building the High Seas Fleet - made them a concern to Britain - which responded with a building program they couldn't match. To what end? Just what was it that the High Seas Fleet was going to do? There are those who think that if Wilhelm could have chosen between being Kaiser and being an Officer in the RN - he'd have chosen the RN. Of course, they weren't going to let him do any such thing so it was never a consideration - but - since he was Kaiser and he could just build his own Navy ... he did ... Then - going into Belgium was certain to bring Britain into the war. France by itself - they could beat as they had in 1870 but with the British (whom the French were begging to come in) they were not able to win. Then - they began unrestricted submarine warfare (not to mention that stupid telegram) - which they knew would bring in the Americans. Building the High Seas Fleet made Britain a potential enemy. British entering the war because of Belgium stopped them from winning. Americans entering the war guaranteed their defeat. And ... don't get me started on Ludendorff ... this is long enough. The Germans were fairly good operationally - but strategically - they were imbeciles. .

Great video, as usual.👍

Just as Mahan figured it out - a comparably cost-effective alternative to sea transport in the form of RAILWAYS was invented and began to be widely used...

Maybe your best work yet. We've lost Hornfisher but Drach has seriously raised his game. Well done, sir.

Nice one Drach.

Thank you for your hard work.

Thank you for this video. It is very helpful.

Thanks. I did, indeed, sorely need a dose of otherness to handle my life today and this monography covers such need wonderfully.

Thank you for this. Most discussion of Mahan I have read minimalizes his lasting impact. He is almost dismissed because 2 generations later, the ships he espoused where eclipsed. That last bit you quoted read like a description of how the USA dismantled Imperial Japan in WW2. We didn't even have to land troops to force an abject surrender. That is what a crushing Naval victory looks like.

Good info!

Great lecture, thank you.

Great work Sir thank you

I love this! You have done a great job of laying out Mahan’s views. I’ve been saying he’s misunderstood for years and oversimplified. But, frankly I have nowhere near your eloquence and methodical approach. I can point out bits and pieces as a counter argument for that specific discussion, but not an overarching argument like yours. This has been saved for whenever he comes up as I will point to it.

5:34 - View of the coaling station at Pearl Harbor, Territory of Hawaii (USA), from the top of radio tower No.1. August 1919 US Library Of Congress

Thanks Drach!

I agree with your analysis of Mahanian doctrine. The point is control of the sea which ensures freedom of action. Freedom of action gives you the greatest flexibility in fighting a war. The more options you have to win a war, the more likely you are to be successful. The decisive battle is just the most obvious way to win oceanic control. I'd argue that Mahanian doctrine can also be applied to air, land, and space warfare too. Battlefield control provides your forces freedom to act which gives you flexibility to pursue the national interest. The large, Waterloo style land battle might be the fastest way to gain land supremacy, but a prolonged campaign of hit and run skirmishes can just as surely eliminate an adversarial army. In the air, complete destruction of the enemy air force in a major clash can work, but you can also use a prolonged bombing campaign to continually force the adversary to sortie their planes giving you the opportunity to shoot them down with escorts. Battlefield control is king. With it, you dictate a war. Without it, you are at the mercy of the enemy.

You just continue to produce outstanding material. Thank you. Mahan's personal story around his name is pretty amusing considering he has US Military Academy (West Point) roots and after two years at Columbia attended the US Naval Academy (Annapolis). The names Thayer and Mahan are instantly recognizable to a West Pointer, but neither for him.

Outstanding overview of AT Mahan... And in a mere 31 mins! I'd add that one can approach ATM from many angles. One aspect of his importance is that he wrote for the 1890s-era Industrial Age, esp focused on basic energy (ie, coal/steam), plus iron/steel and machinery. When ATM advocated for a large Navy, he was telling many important people, in both politics and business, exactly what they wanted to hear. And not just USA/UK; his books were published in German, Russian, French, Turkish, Japanese and many other languages. Hence, the political-economic interpretation of ATM was that in many ways national power depends on sea power. And sea power depends on the industrial base back home, along with the ability to conduct expeditionary-scale logistics to connect the economy to the far distant ships and guns. In other words, an aspiring nation was compelled to maintain a permanent revenue flow for shipyards, steel, machinery, workers; essentially a permanent industrial base of vast scale. And this was music to the ears of both politicians and anyone who could convince a government that they or their business supplied what a Navy needed.

Thanks for the eye opening & informative show. Mayan was a good strategist,ahead of its time.

I like the cartoon "To the Czars peace picnic", with Crozier and his patented disappearing gun carriage, having heard so much about him on C&Rsenal.

Good video!

Cliffs Notes by Drach. Nice way to sail into Wednesday.

Concise and informative.

Very nice!

Thanks!

A beautiful synopsis of Mahan. The man was a deep thinker and cannot be summarized with one sentence. This got me to subscribe.

The lessons of Mahan, I learned in highschool. "Coaling Stations" are necessary. The other lesson I learned later. tactics are fie but logistics wins wars

Up for it! G'mornin!

Excellent job as always. Thank you for putting this together. As you imply, Mahan is routinely dismissed in many of today's navies, the U.S. Navy chief among them. This is unfortunate. For what it's worth, I commend two additional books to your attention. First is Mahan's "Some Neglected Aspects of War." This was published in 1907 and shows a significantly matured thinking on Mahan's part. Written for the 1907 Hague Convention, it explores the implications of seapower vs a globalized economy. In particular, the last two chapters (one by Corbett, the other by Mahan) are relevant. The second book is Jon Sumida's excellent "Inventing Grand Strategy and Teaching Command". As the title suggests, Sumida's work explores the education of naval officers--in the same vein as your point about war preparation. Thanks again. G

very nice discussion...I read his book years ago and it was clear control of the seas was his issue 'not the big battle' . If has had known had WW1 and WW2 submarines would develop he would have a whole book on how to use them for 'control of the seas'

I really enjoyed this, I hope to see more of these kinds of breakdowns of influencial minds.

And yes indeed now that you mention it - I would be very interested in an entirely separate video about the United States Navy versus Royal Navy war plan...!

The last time I was this early I disproved the Big Bang Theory

Mahan left out one critical component to his strategies: ALWAYS ASSUME YOUR SECRET CODED MESSAGES HAVE BEEN READ BY THE ENEMY! Allies read Japan's codes - without that, what would have been the outcome of the Battle of Midway or Coral Sea? Allies read German codes somewhat, and that showed more than once that U-Boats were being directed to a convoy's track the Germans already read allied messages routing the convoy. What the Soviet block didn't get from the Pueblo to read messages - was handed to them by Walker et. al. Etc.

Great video, I learned what Mahan’s actual ideas were instead of the normal “lots of ships go boom”.

I find the man brilliant. What he would have done with computers ... So many variables, sets and subsets and hierarchies. I can picture him educating WOPR.