Whoever thought up of adding humans should never cook again

The embarrasment when saying Hu-man city can be felt on her voice.

Moral of the story never let Mike Mitchell cook again

Moral of the story: Let Stephanie Ma Stine cook

Even with all the production drama, I still believe this movie would've turned out way better if Mike Mitchell didn't push for certain things. I still wish there never even was a Kung Fu Panda 4.

I really hope she doesn't get blacklisted or punished in any way for revealing the truth about the production drama. This is so eye-opening to see that so many people behind the scenes had the same problems with this movie that a lot of us did

So, in conclusion, Mike Mitchell needs to listen to ideas from coworkers.

"Feature people don't count TV directing as experience" honestly makes me very sad, as if TV animation is inherently lesser than Feature film animation. This whole team deserved better.

The main bad guy didn't even have a backstory until the second screening jeez. HUMAN CHARACTERS?! WHAT

its a miracle this movie was coherent at all

Just a reminder that this was made DURING the 2023 Writers Strike! Now hearing how this was made by mostly animators, this was no surprise. What I'm actually surprised of is how they managed to finish this. Now I have another new perspective on Hollywood and the Animation Industry, knowing how cutthroat and money hungry corporations are. I haven't watched the film and I don't think I plan to. Imo, the third installment has more integrity than this.

They could have had a moment where shifu and tailung MET AND MAYBE EVEN MADE UP??? It's a travesty that that idea was axed. The emotional weight that would have carried?! It's been nearly(?) a decade since the first movie, it would have been a massive nostalgia factor for all of us who were the first wave of kung fu panda fans. They missed out HARD. I'm actually so mad that that didn't happen 😢

god i can feel the frustration of the co director is very sad how she seemed to really wanted the tone to stay more true to the original kfp movies but how she got brushed off, it would have been real cool if that was the case

They didn't even have a story bible... Compared to the work done on the past three movies, that's just sad to hear. And Mike Mitchell being considered the lead director and head for the film reminds of a BoJack Horseman quote: "[Film and] TV is a collaborative medium where one person gets to take all the credit." At least Jack Black was considerate enough to consider both the Mitchell and Ma Stine as having important head roles in the production process (he's good like that).

Holy. Shit. I already knew how screwed the production was from a basic standpoint, but Jesus Christ! Creative disputes, scrapped ideas, explains everything. I genuinely give the team massive props for even getting this far into making this damn film. Gives me a good idea how hectic the animation industry, no, the FILM industry in general can get. I absolutely respect the co director especially for going through the process of working on this film in particular.

It's so frustrating to hear yet another case of business decisions being a snake that eats it's own tail They hire fucking Angelina Jolie and Jackie Chan to do voices instead of hiring, you know, voice actors Then later down the line hiring these star actors again is too expensive so they basically murder the character for some marginal gains

Stephanie's so calm and amazing with her words but you can tell deep down that her soul is sad. Mike ruined this film something she truly cared about.

I hope she doesnt get black listed for doing this interview. Companies dont like you airing their dirty laundry like this...

I never liked Mike. Such a cocky jerk

OF COURSE it was executive meddling...

I guarantee you the Po in a box thing was a holdover from when it was a half live action film, almost certainly done to get away with not animating the CG character for an extended period

You know who should've been the director of the 4th entry, Joel Crawford!!! He was a story artist on the past films and knows that universe so well

The idea of including HUMANS all of a sudden breaks ALL logic with previous films. Thank god they scrapped it entirely. The worst idea for this series, bar none.

It’s sad to know both KFP4 and Wish died due to executives failing to allow artists to do their job.

Why is DreamWorks hell bent on comedy movies. Most of their successful franchises have funny moments but they're not comedies.

When she said the TV division got dissolved and is now working on Cocomelon I died inside a little

I'm also a moderator of the r/KFP discord, and yes, this interview was... a league of it's own. I was glad to have helped with "control", in not running the interview, but everything to keep the server in "coherent sense" as it occurred (largely digital crowd control it seemed, basically). But something I'll remember for sure (and the community at large, too) and thanks for the video!

"The moral of the story is to never become an artist 'cause it's a neverending nightmare" 🤣 goddammit, as someone who's stuck in the "how the hell do I make this concept happen?" phase of my animation carrer, this is painfully accurate.

Never ever let this dude cook again. EVER! I almost cried at the end of the movie and not because it was good. When you compare any Kung Fu Panda movie to this one you‘ll see the difference even more. Kung Fu Panda 4 is a soulless movie benefiting from the formers success…

“No one knows the real me. Heck, I barely know the real me!” We need more creative people who are unsure, but willing to learn than those who think their God’s gift to Earth.

seeing that this only has 300 views is nuts. Your production value compared to your traction is night and day, i hope you really do make it in the YT world

I'm so relieved knowing that the chameleon's backstory was a last minute addition. "I was too short for kung fu so I became evil" is a backstory that should only take a minute to come up with.

i liked the movie but it was the weakest, but when i found out about this, now i just feel incredibly sorry for stephanie. hope she directs the next one.

Yes, I am a moderator for the KFP discord/sub and can say that day was quite wild, the information was crazy and jaw dropping in parts to hear at the least. But honestly from all this info, this movie ended up just as "a movie of all time".

In a alternate universe where it was Stephanie Mastine was the one in charge of the film, it would guaranteed be better. I really fucking hate it when film studios are incompetent to let people who care about the universe their film is going to add to be the ones who got shit on and instead have egotistical brain dead bitches be the ones in charge. Happened in Toy Story 4, now in Kung Fu Panda 4. Definitely wish it isn't the film franchises that are so near and dear to me that are getting bastardized.

Wow. I am genuinely shocked at how honest this hole interview was. Thank you so much for making it available!

They keep saying that shen, Kai and the F5's models were made of "sticks and glue". Could they really not just reuse the models from the previous films? Why make new models for such minor roles? And they were going to incorporate HUMANS??seriously?? Wtf??

I just like how they recognize that Kung fu Panda is definitely more mature and what many people want to see.

I like how realistic she’s being. She’s not sugarcoating too much I think. I appreciate it

The fact that humans were unironically considered still shocks me that tells me all I need to know with how much of a mess the final product is....

Nah, without Stephanie and the creative team who spent overtime to get it done, this whole movie would have bombed so hard. I can actually sit back and appreciate this film now. Seriously, imagine if Stephanie's input was not present. Holy shit this would have been such a disaster omg

And this is why indie animation is thriving.

"a story is only as good as the villain they present" i don't know who said, or even if i heard someone say it, but i write and analyse stories by that rule always, and it is so good to hear someone repeat those same words! PS: if executives were good at making good CREATIVE decisions, they wouldn't be just executives in the first place! they should be worried about financing the work only!

I never considered that kids movies are limited to 90 minutes just so they can fit more showings into a day. That's crazy

Such a shame that there were some scrapped interesting things,such as the chameleon backstory,the one in the movie felt just eugh,okay but not like the other 3,its not a bad movie,but couldve been way more cooler,especially when looking at the chameleon she is so COOL,especially her transformation animations.

"TV is not considered canon" this means... THIS MEANS MEGAMIND RULES ISNT CANON ANFMD BY PROXY MEGAMIND 2 ISNT EITHER YEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAWWW

I read this interview a couple weeks ago and it only upped my disappointment because it made me realize that this movie could have been good, if only they were more willing to listen to Stephanie Stine's ideas.

Lol, the thing about not being allowed into the editing room sounds exactly like what happened to one of the women from 'Hidden Figures'. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some pigheaded reason for that anyway when she's a director too.

moral of the story is that I gotta rewatch kung fu panda 2

Seems like Mike had a heavy hand to why this movie turned out as bad as it did

Ugh, I'm glad I ditched my dream of working for Dreamworks while in college. Dodged an ego-run BULLET!

I seriously hope that she directs the fifth movie, and that she hires better writers... The ones that worked on the fourth sound like real assholes. The movie we got was still good, but it sucks to know it could have been so much better.

i would have been completely fine with the furious 5 getting new voices

Sounds like the writers didnt know basic storytelling

nico marlet leaving and refusing to return is one HELL of a harbinger

Never let Mike Mitchell cook

Strongest villain of kfp... Mike Mitchell

Going independent sounds nicer and nicer tbh hearing this.

The year of our lord 2024 and the CEOs still think that animated movies are watched only by the toddlers.

Why can't the higher ups just let the people hired to do the actual creative thinking do their work in peace without any meddling. They don't know better, they never do and just want to feel important. This industry and big studios are seriously corrupted. And Im not even going to get into all the extra hours animators are expected to do. I really wish there was something like a fair new studio out there founded by passionate people and perhaps former indie artists that love the work but dislike the state of the industry. I need someone to breathe life and good work conditions back into the industry because it seems to be getting worse and worse

Puss and Boots 2 was such a good movie… What the hell is happening at dream works?

The fucking thumbnail sent me up the wall. How could such a simple image make me so mad and my skin crawl so throughly? Is that a true trypophobic reaction? It’s not fun

Jesus in every industry executives ruin every creative vision. They can’t even make good financial decisions. What are they even there for. 🤦

Remember people: It could have been a *LOT* worse for this movie. The Kung fu panda 4 we got may not be on the same level as the last 3 with what feels like a rushed pace, a somewhat lacking story and the furious five not even showing up until literally the end of the film, definitely the weakest of the franchise yet but its definitely still better than the likes of megamind and the doom syndicate(ironic how both released this year and one looks like it came out on the PS2). And in spite of the reception, its a box office success so far, If Kung fu panda 4 was written the way Mike wanted it to be, i don't think it'd get the box office it'd have and even worse reception than it already does. To the point it'd probably kill any chance of the next two movies happening.

this definitely makes me realize how hard is it creating moves and shows

I was a part of a test screening for early storyboards and early production. I didn't even know about the human stuff. I really had no idea what the movie was trying to do and every question I answered basically boiled down to "what is this movie?" but they just kept asking about if I found the goofy small characters endearing or not.

Incredible video, and I love how many insights into the industry it revealed. Thank you so much for it. I wanna do film so much, and this video, actually , inspired me to pursue it more because if there are such great people as Stephanie Stine, then there's still hope

Ah, so it was all Mike Mitchell, a Man who Makes Monumentally Mediocre Movies.

Dude??? Is nobody gonna talk about the fact that the STORY is finished last?? Thats insane and stupid as hell. You cant tell a good story without logic.

dude how the fuck do you not have more subscribers?? this shit is so high quality, i hope the algorithm snatches your channel up through the ranks cause damn you deserve it

The note about scenes starting sad and ending happy and vice versa is so interesting!

Thank you for linking my document in your description. It was annoying to see mainly twitter users to take info from it but neglect to share the source itself I think some youtubers did it too? I don't quite remember lol Edit: awesome video too, subbed :)

I really like the cut at 10:02, a great picture with the most evil villain: the stairs. It nicely underlines what is said.

14:04 pretty ridiculous despite the fact the previous 3 movies made nothing near that and were all successes, what’s the excuse going to be for kung fu panda 5?

So like the biggest takeaway here is studio execs should listen to Stephanie. She seems really passionate about the story and it sucks how some people in the production treated her :(

All im gonna say after listening to this whole video was that the fourth movie should have stuck with the original story where shifu would get kidnapped by the chameleon and po would go out to save him because they could have included moments between tai lung and shifu. Tai lung still feeling bitter about shifu giving him hope of being the dragon warrior and shifu having to go through that guilt while also seeing father-son moments between the two. The story of po having to choose a new dragon warrior feels a little too early to be made

Ouch. I Wouldn't Want To Be In Any Of Their Shoes. Even The Main Guy Must Be Held Back By Those Excecutives. Yuck. That Is Never Truly Even Their Movie.

sooo mike mitchell is the villain here? never let him cook again orrr?

You can hear the passion her voice and how she really cares about the franchise and it's sad when she sounds defeated when a good chunk of great ideas get scrapped for unfair reasons. It genuinely makes mes sad that this movie could have been amazing with the help of people who genuinely love and care about the franchise.

Jesus man this movie really had everything working against it huh? I’m shocked it still came out somewhat enjoyable for me. Not nearly as good as the first three, but only because they’re such earth-shattering achievements, while 4 was just kinda decent.

4:51 just remember that animated movies like spirited away, across the spider verse which are both pg rated films for example has longer running times than kfp4

2:43 Ok... that IMDB lineup comprised entirely of mid-to-ok films really explains a lot. This man has never made something on par with the first two Kung-Fu Panda films.

Tbh, kung fu panda 4 should have been a furious five spin off

Please never let Mike Mitchell near this franchise again. The Kung Fu Panda films have literally been my favourite films of all time, a large part of that owing to how the films seemed to be aware that they could be serious and tell interesting complext stories AND be banging fun action comedies all tied together with great animation and yummy visuals. I never wanted a 4, for this EXACT reason. If the entry isnt going to be handled with the same dedication and care as the previous titles its going to be EVEN MORE apparent because of the proceeding hits. Ive still not seen 4, and I have no urge to either. I just hope Stephanie Ma gets to helm the next one. She would be amazing.

You guys saying this movie was alright in the comments are gonna be the death of cinema

It's Ironic to think that the person with much less directing experience would have been a much better director. Like I get that they had Mike be the director for the reason of having lots of experience, but little did they know that that was a mistake (though I doubt they care as long as the movie made lots of money).

Dreamworks SHOULD be ashamed of themselves but they never will be

Dreamworks changed a lot after the acquisition by Universal. It feels that they are getting too much influence from Illumination nowadays.

This part at 33:28 where Stephanie revealed that Zhen was originally not going to get an onscreen redemption scene is one of the more surprising things to hear from this interview, both because of the writers' baffling reluctance on putting one in, and the fact that it just seems like common sense to do for a character that's gonna be sticking around for future films. It makes me appreciate the scene we got a little more, even though I do agree with Stephanie that more could've been done with Zhen and Po's friendship that's supposed to drive the emotion for their 2nd fight.

Executives having a say over anything outside of a film's financial aspects is bizarre to me. These people have absolutely no experience creating movies or telling stories! Sure, let them handle marketing and business deals, but they'd have to be idiots to think they know better than a seasoned director or writer.

It's so fascinating how the most imcompeted and out-of-touch people are always managers. Like, lets say you are a revered creative director. The moment you are put into team lead or management duty, do you just lose half your brain cells? Do they force you to go through a lobotomy? It's not just that they try to manage the project, they are trying to manage the money. And they can barely do that. So what gives?

14:30 _That hurt…_

“Never become an artist because it’s a never ending nightmare” BASED

I didnt even watch Kung Fu Panda 4 (i was a big fan of the series as a kid though) but this was very insightful into how the industry opperates

Been waiting for someone to cover the mess that was the production of this film. I feel bad for Stephanie Stine for being ignored so much during the production, as she really knew what was best for the franchise. The live-action/animation hybrid film they were going to do would be better as a WFRR sequel or a standalone, not a Kung-fu Panda movie. xD You can't just change a genre of a franchise halfway through installments! This movie was such a mess and such a huge disappointment. The plot was very predictable, and I couldn't buy into Po and Zhen's friendship at all. I also didn't find most of the jokes very funny and found Zhen to be kind of annoying (she was an overly snarky character voiced by Scuttlebutt, so it's to be expected, I guess), and her redemption was very forced and unearned because her backstory was very underdeveloped and her relationship with Po was rushed. Like co-director Stephanie Stine had said, I just couldn't buy that they became friends because there weren't enough screen-time or scenes that tested their bond. Her backstory with the Chameleon was so underdeveloped. Most of the time, during her scenes with Po and her scenes with Chameleon, I just felt like I was missing more scenes or something. Zhen's status as the Chameleon's adoptive-daughter had potential, but the scenes with them were so quick it was underwhelming and I really didn't feel anything when she betrayed Po. It didn't help that I had accidentally spoiled myself with the reveal that she was the Chameleon's pupil, but it was still pretty obvious, I probably would have figured it out by myself if I hadn't gotten briefly spoiled. It also felt kinda OOC for the villains Po fought to bow before him and show respect after everything they did to him and after Po foiled their plans. On paper, it sounds like an interesting idea, but because they all came back at the very last minute and for fan-service, there wasn't any time to properly flesh it all out. Before the trailers came out, I also wasn't expecting it to be yet another "Hero has to pass on the torch" story EVERYONE in Hollywood seems to be obsessed with doing to their old popular heroes now. And I remember thinking to myself as I was watching it, but WHY does Po need a successor? He's in his 20's? He's too fucking young to pass on his Dragon Warrior title. Some other video I found mentioned that it would have been cool if Tigress had been chosen to be Po's successor, and honestly that would have made more sense. Po and Zhen's bond was very rushed and it didn't help that there was so much padding and pointless scenes like the dumb tavern, and Po's fathers Li and Mr. Ping going after them, and then doing a repeat of the pointless tavern scene, and then doing more dumb hi-jinks in the city. Tigress fought and trained hard to achieve the position for years anyway, Po knows her much longer than he knows Zhen, and Zhen didn't really earn it. The Chameleon had a neat design and powers, but was very bland and very lacking in nuance compared to Tai Lung and Lord Shen, and her defeat was very anticlimactic. I also found her backstory to be very under-cooked. We were told and shown Tai Lung's past, we were told and shown Lord Shen's story, we were shown and told Kai's past, but Chameleon? I felt like we got very little of her. We didn't even get proper flashbacks showing us her past, unlike the three previous villains. They explained her motivation and what she wants, but it was so bare-boned. She turned to evil because they couldn't teach her kung-fu because she was too small... but we had a literal praying mantis who learned it just fine?? Dude was even smaller than she was. Like, wha? Also, how did she teach Zhen, her adopted daughter, all those kung-fu moves if she didn't know kung-fu herself? Or did Zhen just learn her moves on the streets? How? Who taught her if it wasn't her foster-mother? That didn't make sense. Also, I disagree with the trailer that the Chameleon was Po's greatest enemy. *Lord Shen* was Po's greatest enemy on a much more personal level. And the Chameleon's first appearance had so much potential that was wasted. In Kung Fu Panda, Tai Lung's establishing character moment was an epic prison break scene, establishing his brute strength and cunning as he fought off the rhinoceros guards. In Kung Fu Panda 2, Lord Shen first appeared committing a fucking genocide in the past, then made his first appearance fighting two Kung-fu masters, pulling out his cannon and blasting the shit out of them when it seemed like he was gonna lose. And in Kung Fu Panda 3, General Kai made his first appearance attacking Master Oogway and stealing his qi, using it to return to the world of the living. The Chameleon? Her first establishing character moment was PUSH SOMEONE DOWN SOME STAIRS. It also made zero sense on why Kai was back in the Spirit Realm? Dude got blown up within the Spirit Realm, rendering him deader than dead. So how was he back in the Spirit Realm? And wasn't Lord Shen not a kung fu master, so why was he in the Spirit Realm...? I doubt Mike Mitchell even watched the previous movies. I expected the scene where the Chameleon brought back Tai Lung to be in the beginning of the movie, and so Po would have had to face off against the three villains again and Tai Lung would have some sort of redemption arc. That would been really cool, instead of simply bringing them all back for 10 minutes or so of fan-service. The draft where Shifu was kidnapped by the Chameleon, sending Po to rescue him, and Shifu getting to say goodbye to Tai Lung sounded so much better than the final project. Tai Lung getting a redemption arc would have fit with the plot too. Maybe after getting his Kung fu stolen by the Chameleon, Tai Lung would have had to work with Po to stop her. When I heard Kung-fu Panda was going to be a series of six films, I was so excited and curious to see where it would go. But after this film, I have very little hope for the rest of the series...

Youre telling me ProZD couldve been in this movie? 😭 wouldve made the movie a little more better

We could have had ProZD in KFP? Fuck that would have been great.

This is so fascinating!! As someone who's trying to get into feature editing for animation, this was such a treat to learn about!

What sucks is she knew what she was talking about an was devalidated by the lead when everyone else voiced the same opinion. Thats frustrating to hear she had to validate herself but view the turmoil as growth. That lead need to change his approach and listen, if not formulate a game plan because of the lack of resources.

Absolutely hate it that i just found out JB made a “Hit Me Baby One more Time” cover the same time as this movie. Out of all the KFP movies??