In this video we see an old copy of MVS/XA still running on a very old mainframe in the post-Soviet republic of Kazakhstan Join us on our Discord channel here: / discord
Пікірлер: 76
@martygenska81175 ай бұрын
Gosh, do I remember those 3278-2 screens. I remember the first time I saw a 3279 4-color :). And then, as the senior systems guy, I got a 3270 PC XT, which emulated four 3270 screens. Thought I was in heaven :)
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Yes I remember those well.
@udirt5 ай бұрын
I did some work on a Sinix mainframe in my first apprenticeship, just inputting sales data etc. and it still feels like I haven't found anything as efficient as working with those custom keyboards and handcrafted dialog screens.
@badscrew40235 ай бұрын
The 3270 ISA card that was in that PC was perhaps the biggest computer card I've ever seen in my life.
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
@@badscrew4023 yes I remember those
@twentyrothmans73085 ай бұрын
ESA survivor here. It's amazing to see these panels again.
@hinzster5 ай бұрын
My father's last work at IBM before he took the early retirement offer in 1985 (he was an SE) was exactly that, helping clients move from MVS to MVS/XA. And at least by what he told me, it was actually kind of a rare skillset, so IBM Germany was left with just one of the three persons with that skillset after the early retirement thing - in the 1980s IBM was for the first time struggling financially, and had to reduce their workforce, and they still believed in not firing anybody, so they offered those in the right age group (55+) early retirement. And since they did it globally, that lead to situations like in Germany where they suddenly didn't have people to do this important work. As for the 3083 I had access to as a IT student in the mid- to late eighties, no idea what was running on it. We did use MVS though, doing a bit of assembly programming, but how much memory do you really need for a proof-of-concept assembly program (don't remember what it was, it was either prime numbers or fibonacci numbers, and not many of them either).
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Yes I remember the early retirements in those days. We had a very nice SE but he only spoke to me once. I was the youngster (only 19) but I was the promising new developer
@johnwade13254 ай бұрын
The early retirements continued. I started my "work-out process" at Easter 1994 and finally left at Easter 1996. By then I was the only long-standing SE in Scotland and a fair chunk of northern England supporting CICS, the operational side of IMS, and DB2 and SQL/DS. It got a bit lonely! I was grabbed by a local customer with a firm offer about two months before my advertised retirement, and worked there four days a week thereafter as a "short-term contractor" for over 11 years. I got to a lot of places as an IBM CICS specialist - but never to Kazakhstan! (On a totally non-technical note, Kazakhstan never looks very big in the atlas, as there are large parts with not much in them to put on the map, but you can fit a large part of Western and Central Europe into it with space to spare.)
@terryhoekstra83635 ай бұрын
Great stuff, I started my mainframe career in 1986 with … MVS/XA. Traveled back in time, thanks a lot 🙏🏻
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Just like me. We must be same age or so.
@horsthorstmann79215 ай бұрын
I began 1985 with VM/SP and later VM/XA.
@TheStefanskoglund15 ай бұрын
@@moshixmainframechannel i was interviewed for a job at Volvo in Skövde - IBM 3090/VAX (at that time Volvo ran most of the manufacturing inventory/automation on VMS) operator in 1988. Today it feels pretty awful missing that, if someone would get me a MVS/ESA logon on a real 3090...)
@johnlacey1555 ай бұрын
Super cool video - thanks for putting this together! Great to see a walk through of some MVS assembler (something I never got anywhere near).
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Thank you much !
@alexanderbuchler40485 ай бұрын
"Jagshemash! In Kazakhstan, we not only find potassium and superior gypsy tears, but now, world, behold! We recover the greatest Kazakh treasure, the MVS/XA operating system, M242! Is nice! This system, like our women, very powerful and mysterious, yes? Western countries have Silicon Valley, but we in Kazakhstan, we have Silicon Steppe! High five!” - Borat probably
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Hahahaha jagshemash!
@kensmith56945 ай бұрын
"Luxury" My brief experience with the 360/370 line was in the early 1970s. On it the program editing tool I used was not as nice as what you showed. Basically it was about like the MSDOS edline. You needed to give it the line number you wanted to work on and then the command for what to do. Communication was going on at some number for not very many baud.
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Yes that editor still exists on VM/370
@billchatfield30645 ай бұрын
This is great. I've learning so much about mainframes by watching your videos. I've never had a chance to do that before. They've always seemed very mysterious to me. I'm still waiting for the Pascal or BASIC command line video. :D
@3Cr15w3115 ай бұрын
I used MVS/XA from 1988 to 1990 or so when the systems went to MVS/ESA and I used that until 1992 or so. There were three mainframes at the installation: a 3090, a 3084, and a 4381. I started on the 3084, had to transition to the 4381 (which was slower), then the 3090 later on.
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Nice. Here in the U.S. ?
@gnustep5 ай бұрын
Very nice, great post as always!
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Thank you! Cheers!
@ldjzst5 ай бұрын
Our test system in our bank is called XAT. XA-test. I still have to explain it to the newbie’s
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Wow
@marcuswilliams34555 ай бұрын
Ah, once again, I enjoyed seeing your presentations. :) Interesting, return code of 4, from the assembly, but according to the assembler listing no statements were flagged. Ah, I see, you got a warning (message # IEV140) at the very bottom. Didn't include the 'END' card. Yes, I figured, the assembler module was for demonstration purposes, but I noticed the GETMAIN macro calls which did not utilized the acquired storage. However, it was great review of an assembler language program.
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Thanks for the info!
@grappydingus5 ай бұрын
Wonderful seeing the simple SPF. Curious if you ever used the SCRIPT/VS program as seen in the Foreground Selection Panel?
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Yes I have if in VM
@gabriel_o_pescador5 ай бұрын
Realy Amazing, i like a Lot this design, like a muscle car in a old fashion way
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Glad you like it!
@frankniethardt18135 ай бұрын
Very interesting video... The MOSHIX UTLS have been there before or did you install them?
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
I installed them of course
@frankniethardt18135 ай бұрын
Maybe you are famous … 😉
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Hahahah I am not.
@TheStefanskoglund15 ай бұрын
Hehe - time travel or DID IBM produce MVS/XA in 1923 ? That would really turn the last 100 years of history UPSIDE-DOWN. Food for though for someone like Harry Turtledove.
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Haha
@imrank3405 ай бұрын
IBM is an old-guard company whose Heritage goes back 1886 the very first US sensus machine was created by German inventor Holorith.
@user-tc1le4mx6q4 ай бұрын
thanks for some nostalgia. I haven't seen ISPF 2.3 (?) in decades, though I used to have a copy then lost it. Anyway, when I first added syntax coloring to ISPF (that later became the HILITE command), I think I did it on ISPF 2.3 as some sort of an exit. If I recall correctly (maybe not), I distributed the HILITE stuff as freeware on a personal website, with IBM's permission, and worked the bugs out so I could eventually slip it into ISPF which was somewhere in V3 by then. same with ISRDDN/DDLIST. that was pretty unusual in those days. Ah, fun times.
@moshixmainframechannel4 ай бұрын
Oh wow. So you were at IBM and developed HILITE?? Amazing! I am honored
@user-tc1le4mx6q4 ай бұрын
Thanks! The honor is mine
@moshixmainframechannel4 ай бұрын
@@user-tc1le4mx6q and I just found out you are also the author of ISRFIND, ISRDDN, and TASID!! Wow! Very, very honored!
@moshixmainframechannel4 ай бұрын
Pls contact me for ISPF 2.3. I can get you a tape image
@SvyatoslavPidgorny5 ай бұрын
Is it running on real hardware, or emulator? How to get access?
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Real hardware as I mentioned in the video. I think it’s an IBM MP/2000 from 1999. They only start the machine now and then, so they don’t give access to the public. Plus internet connection is very flaky
@ninoivanov5 ай бұрын
Veeery nice! - Kazakhstan, Kazakhstan, greatest country in the world, all other countries are ruled by little girls!
@douro204 ай бұрын
64-bit physical address- that's 16 exbibytes which can be directly addressed. Back in 2004 or so when z/Architecture was introduced this was an almost unfathomable address space. I don't think even most supercomputers had such a large physical address space.
@moshixmainframechannel4 ай бұрын
Indeed. But XA is 31 bit
@mellertid5 ай бұрын
Nice thumbnail too!
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Thanks!!
@mauricioluisvega31374 ай бұрын
Hello, I am looking for a pdf or information that relates a PANEL where there are input fields, with the REXX that takes that data written in the panel and manages it with a jcl. The entire life cycle. For some reason, I only find or panel design or some useless rexx that doesn't work. Do you know about something like that? How do I relate an input field to the rexx! it's not complicated. I can't find anything like that, not even videos. greetings.
@moshixmainframechannel4 ай бұрын
Yes I have a video about panel Rexx.
@massimo79mmm4 ай бұрын
hi moshix, can you give me a hint, please? i modified the tk5-included prime number cobol JCL, but when i SUB it the MVS prints that the job is submitted, but i can't find in OUTLIST. obviously i made a mistake in some JCL cards, but i don't know how to get the "log" of the job, at least to understand where i made the mistake. i used CLASS=A and MSGCLASS=H, and i tried ST *, but it seems that i can't see the "failed" jobs. if i run the original job (modifyng only msgclass and job name) it appears in the list, and for certain types of error i can see the failed job (i obtained a IEF452I error, for example). I red some redbooks and mvs-related pdf and i order some JCL books, but i can't undestand how to read the outputs of failed jobs... can you help me or tell me where to get those info? thank you very much
@moshixmainframechannel4 ай бұрын
Do a msgclass=A and then look for the job in the output file
@massimo79mmm4 ай бұрын
@@moshixmainframechannel i just sub a job with msgclass=A but nothing... i don't want to disturb you further, thank you anyway!
@moshixmainframechannel4 ай бұрын
Join our discord and ask there. You can send your JCL and we can see what’s wrong. This is not a good medium for support
@massimo79mmm3 ай бұрын
@@moshixmainframechannel i bjuust bought two books on jcl, i really am interested in this topic
@lcarliner5 ай бұрын
Before I start describing my concern, here's a quick quip: What is the quickest way to get a retired MVS programmer what is a browser cookie? Ans.: It is analogous to an ISPF profile! Just as insufficient memory gives rise to paging thrashing, I believe that the base plus displacement form of IBM mainframe instruction set addressing design can lead to address reference thrashing, in which so much of memory is eaten up by the constant reloading of "*.USING" address constants! If a provision for indirect addressing with pre and post indexing options that other mainframes had, like the GE600 series machines had would virtually eliminate this issue. I would be interested in how the 64-bit address capabilities handle this issue. My mathematical abilities in dealing with "higher hierogliphics' s limited in constructing a proof. Also, I would be interested in learning if the glaring omission of instructions for save/load multiple for the floating-point registers have been corrected. The issues of addressability needs to be solvled if the huge address space of quantum computers can be dealt with!
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
All true
@badscrew40235 ай бұрын
Schlumberger might have been the only company operating in Kazahkstan who could afford a mainframe.
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Or chevron
@badscrew40235 ай бұрын
@@moshixmainframechannel well, petrol juggernauts :D
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Exactly. And by saying petrol you also revealed yourself as UK-ish 😊
@badscrew40235 ай бұрын
@@moshixmainframechannel I can neither confirm nor deny that information before consulting with my lawyer!
@yxyk-fr5 ай бұрын
16MB ? come on ! 640KB should be enough for everybody ;-)
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Yes. True, true
@hs-tc5 ай бұрын
Hah, awesome!
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@lsilva76645 ай бұрын
Is it possible to make a copy of the os?
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
How? Over 3270 ??
@sdjhgfkshfswdfhskljh33605 ай бұрын
This is also what I was wondering about. Having access is good, but to preserve it for the future, there should be freely available copies. I'm not sure however if emulators for this architecture exist.
@moshixmainframechannel5 ай бұрын
There are no XA capable emulators. Also because XA relied on certain special hardware assists that were special to the machines of those days. Like console assists. Just emulating the instructions is not enough