You forgot the play novels, with the Trans vampire taxi driver who would kill/feed on Trump supporters, and the Mage play novel set in Sweden and eas focused a lot on migrant camps. Which you cannot find any more, for some reason...

@@horseradishpower9947 First I've ever heard of those lol. Were they proper White Wolf releases?

@@lavalamp505 Good point. It was right at the start of the Paradox acquisition, so it was an outside company.

You missed the Vampire Murders in Florida in the mid-90s, in which four teens killed the parents of one of the members. The Casual Criminalist did a video on it, but left of the part where John Walsh condemned the game on America's Most Wanted and warned parents that "If you see your children with any of these books, they may be murderers."

I mean, there IS the Wu Keng, a Craft of Mages who are, and this is a big one: Chinese Transvestite Infernalists subjected at a young age to _foot binding_ by the members of the Craft who _kidnapped them_ as infants. Did I mention they were kept ignorant of the fact they served demons, so they're all that but delusional? The Wu Keng were the "peasant magic" counterparts to the "high class wizards" of the Wu Lung. But White Wolf saw fit to add so much cultural baggage onto them. Wrapping a clumsy attempt to create a designated "Trans Craft" for Mage into a surface level understanding of Chinese history and culture. So the best representation Trans people had in Mage was...the devil-worshipers (not even cool ones, ones that were ignorant) who had hobbled feet. Who arguably weren't even "really" Trans, because they were stolen as children and forcibly raised as women, their "internal gender" be damned. I don't know the extent of backlash against the Wu Keng at the time. All I know is, during Revised, WW tried to do a saving throw by introducing a parallel Craft of Chinese peasant shamans that used many of the same magical practices as the Wu Keng, but with none of their baggage. With the idea really ancient Wu Keng masters secretly taught students The Old Ways, unblemished by the bullshit the demons taught them, and sent them out into the world. (Mind's Eye Theater called these shaman the "Wu Nung", if I remember correctly, as the book that originally introduced them didn't deign to name them). It would have been preferable if White Wolf had simply retconned the old material to make the "Wu Nung" the Craft all along, so players could run them at any point in history. And also not left Storytellers with having to juggle TWO similar Crafts, one that retained all the offensive bullshit from the 90s. But I suppose this was better than nothing? It's telling the Wu Keng never showed up in M20 material, to my knowledge.

The Cammie club is honestly worth a video of its own. I didn’t want to linger on one subject too long and that stuff is a rabbit hole of despair.

@@lavalamp505 Couldn't have phrased it more repellently myself. Which is nerd for, yup.

Including, apparently, the creative director in charge of W5. Who had to be informed that the Get of Fenris killed off all their Nazi members back in Revised. Followed by said director deciding "eh, Lore isn't that important, right?", and made the -Get- _Cult_ of Fenris into All Fascists All The Time.

@Bluecho4 EXACTLY! It's why i won't play W5 yet, i cant forgive the redline of the tribes good history to fit a narrative that pushes away a good chunk of players. Hunting Nazis was and still is my jam on my Get. I know it invites newer players and grows the fan base, allowing for continued survival of the game, but it did hurt to see. I wont advise others to not play but doesnt mean i have to.

The in-game description is utterly cathartic as well, and the last line when telling about the fight and ensuing hunt for every last traitor ? "We were thorough." Like, the Swords were anti-get, confused pawns of something else...But oh no, now all Get are Nazis. F*** NuWW.

You have to love that 5E's version of morality is that the Fenris are unplayable now because they're apparently the only ones who actually follow The Litany anymore, and that's EVIL? Meanwhile Red Talons are still A-OK. Glorified even.

I hope I didn’t come across too harshly on White Wolf. I genuinely believe most of these issues were from ignorance and not malice. The problem for me is that White Wolf demonstrated their ability to create amazing cultural source books with Charnel Houses. When they wanted to, they could get it right. Janet Berliner was a really big part of Charnel Houses going well and had they touched base with some other experts KoE would’ve gone better.

They unironically got more accurate info back then than they would nowadays.

Spoken as someone who hasn't been around gypsies. Take a trip to Bulgaria or Romania, see for yourself.

The ironic thing is that I think a lot of that stuff, they were actually trying to be inclusive! Times change, we evolve.

@@PaulRGauthier They were trying to be inclusive. We just live in a disgusting age where narcissism and neuroticism are celebrated as ideals instead things to be condemned.

My best friend and I love collecting homophobic Jack Chick tracts to read and laugh at. We're both a bunch of queers.

Just like the vast majority of any group when some vocal minorities on the internet start screaming about how offensive something is. lol. Most of the actual group don't care.

Wholly agree. Charnel Houses was amazing.

I agree that people get a tad too worked up over what are really just goofy mistakes for the most part. Gypsies is pretty inexcusable but KotE is largely a love-letter from the weebier members of the WW staff.

Thanks! Theres a TON of tracing drama in the new Werewolf book but can’t really blame that on White Wolf anymore.

They have some hits and misses for sure lol. Charnel Houses is so well done its a tragedy most of their writing didn’t get that level of effort

@@lavalamp505 I get the feeling White Wolf, being mostly, well, White, knew well enough that the Holocaust needed to be approached with utmost sensitivity. But when it came to minorities or people from non-White cultures, such consideration didn't enter into their minds.

The art thing is a mess, it seems like every major ttrpg has had troubles with it lately. The Get aren’t really antagonists as much as they are neutral now. You can work with and against them rather easily. Honestly, tribe cooperation felt similar in 20th half the time. The lore sheet allows you to at least have some touchstone for them

I have, my heart is a bit broken. Not quite sure what they’re thinking.

Beast is very fun. People I've ran the game for also enjoyed it. Tbh, I'm starting to think I just enjoy games others don't seem to because I also love Demon: The Fallen, and everyone I see talking about it online can't stop crying over how it's too "Christian". To me, it's the perfect game in which I get to play the type of demon, a fallen angel, I've always loved in fiction. That, and it seems to do things such as personal horror far better than Vampire could ever dream of without sacrificing feeling powerful in the process.

I don’t think the issue is “you can’t limit what people can make their games about.” No one can control what you choose to run at your own table. You’re the one who knows your players. Hopefully you’ve discussed what sort of content they are and are not comfortable with… to avoid “that guy” scenarios if nothing else. That guy. You know. The one who keeps pushing the edgiest, most upsetting stuff he possibly can into his game, just because he can. That guy who uses TTRPGS as an excuse to be his worst possible self, uses his fellow players as props for his distressing fantasies, and seems never happier then when he’s making everyone else uncomfortable. He doesn’t even seem to really care about the game being fun so much as he cares about being able to upset people. That guy is the worst. Don’t be that guy. And if you happen to publish a TTRPG, REALLY you don’t need to give That Guy the excuse of “I’ve just gotta do this awful bigoted thing it’s in the book!!!” I promise he doesn’t need the help. And by the way, I don’t think your gamifying racism is a good idea.

THANK YOU

What the f is lgbtqia+ and what tf is lgbtqiaa++2sp+? I find the pandering funny from that community, If the "I" is for intersex, thats a mutation not an identity. They even added black and brown stripes to represent black people without asking them.

@@KneGros-nc1ss yeah so?

www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/14817nb/its_anuhdiscipline/

@@lavalamp505 Thank you!!! Also great video!

@@lavalamp505 OH MY GOD ITS PORN?! I didn't realize 😭

@@heathermasonfan lmaoooo

@@lavalamp505That was definitely not what I expected!

Not entirely wrong but they are controversies none the less within the space. Many are banned topics within WoD spaces.

@@lavalamp505 _WoD spaces or just safe spaces? That's the real issue here. I'm sad who owns the IP now are just a-holes that need their crap to be accepted. Oops, did I breach the masquerade?_

@@Fear.Loathing White Wolf has been a European company for some time now.

@@Fear.Loathing Most of these controversies are coming from non-American sources. America has an extremely small Romani population, most of the complaints are from Roma people or Europeans. Most Americans think of Stevie Nicks when they hear the word Gypsie. Metis is a Canadian phrase and has basically 0 presence in America. Kindred of the East backlash came largely from actually Asian players. The biggest American centered drama was probably the Camarilla club mess but that was just typical company BS. Very little of this stuff has to do with America at all.

@@Fear.Loathing I totally agree. Almost everything about Russia in vampires is stereotypes, but it does not offend me and ALL my players in any way. We think it's funny and understand that it's unrealistic. It's just a game.

Agreed. They pulled every single thing Zak S did almost instantly but have left Beast. Its strange.

@@lavalamp505I mean,why would get rid of a chance to get more money? Yeah,it was written by a bad person but people can clearly change it to something more palpable, if they want to. Hell,it actually gives us a chance to look deeper into the mind of a child predator,which is definitely a rarity. And I find it funny how,I have seen some comments on KZfaq, how they actually like Beast and even one I saw about a person, saying that Beast was the reason they got into WoD in the first place. Even bad things can do some good.

They have made some major strides in 5th to fix these issues under Paradox. Def check it out

​@@lavalamp505I am personally keeping away from 5th. I remember the play test chronicles, and have looked at the comments online, and looked at the wiki info. It isn't at all appealing. I am better off making my own version, revising clans to work better, and the like. There is a lot of potential and positive elements in 1st-Revised, and 20th has a lot to mull over as well. The material is there to build something for yourself.

@@horseradishpower9947 I'd say check it out v5 for yourself and make your own decision. For what it's worth, I was a 2nd edition baby and it sounds like you and I aren't dissimilar in our values. I think you might be surprised by v5. Personally, I love it. It feels like a reboot of 1st and 2nd edition era, a "getting back to Vampire's roots" kind of thing. That said, the direction Paradox has been taking recently is paralleling White Wolf, including crappy splatbooks AND some very socially unconscious bollocks. (They pretend to be all inclusive etc., but the reality on the ground is quite different. And I consider it worse the WW stuff. The old WW guys mostly didn't know any better. In 2023 you have no excuse.) That might influence your decision to spend money on their games, I understand. Even if you don't wanna play v5... If you can get your hands on an Onyx Path edition of Chicago by Night (v5) DO IT! It's one of the best ttrpg sourcebooks *ever*. You won't be disappointed, trust me. Sadly, the incompetent company they've now got publishing the game are revising CbN. Literally, monkeys trying to improve Shakespeare, sigh.

I had this but cut it out. The author as you said was black and wanted to represent skin darkening as empowering as a vampire aged in contrast to the usual paling of skin.

I don’t disagree. I would really like to see a 5th edition go round at it

I was definitely focused in on World of Darkness. I know next to nothing about Exalted.

In the early days, they were tied, as Exalted was positioning itself to be the prehistory of the setting(many terms got reused, Scarlet Empress, Ebon Dragon, Malfeans, Black Spiral) But no official product came out to use this, or spell this out, as far as I can tell@@lavalamp505

Ripped from this meme: www.reddit.com/r/vtmb/comments/14817nb/its_anuhdiscipline/ No artist accreditation there, sadly.

Artist name is DinDin, but not much else known, or that can be found.

They have thankfully moved away from culturally or ethnically based clans/tribes/orders. It has saved them a lot of future headaches I’m sure

They fall under the same problem as Ravnos. Indians are Asian yes, as are some Middle-Eastern kindred but they certainly do not fall under the “””culturally asian””” requirement that Kuei-Jin had which pretty explicitly meant Chinese or Japanese.

@mp505 The Rising being limited to East Asia is not true first since it not only includes Southeast Asia, but also extends to India (the Infinite Thunders court is based in Sri Lanka, so its not just a case of Bengal at most). India in-universe is a messy borderlands between Kindred and Kue-jin, like California and what was the Anarch Free State / New Promise Mandarinate. It's because of metaplot reasons why the dead come back to their bodies most in Asia, but it's not limited to just there. But only Asia has the support structure and the former wan kuei to enable them to find chin-meh (freshly returned Kue-jin who are ravenous and can only draw chi from flesh) and capture them, and keep them 'alive' long enough that their soul reasserts itself. Everywhere else in the world, they're wiped out as some aberration monster before they can bring themselves back to sentience. Also, on top, before 5E happened, which I discount anyways because damn the 5E books all to hell for being shit, The Rising was finally enabled in California, and soon North America, which is one reason why there was hope in the Courts for the continued fight in America in the first place. The main point about the Kue-jin wasn't supposed to be as how they are so different, alien ('like Asian stereotypes irl amirite hur hur' said the braindead prog), that's literally if anything, was the whole point you're supposed to see past. For all the kindred and kue-jin characters remarking ohohoho were so different, ***the whole point was that they're way more alike than they appear or want to admit, sharing in the utter root of their existence, aka being cursed by God*** . Also, they weren't just one monoculture. From the first, the different Courts were discussed in the books, and not just Courts, but locations of the KJ, like the Green of Korea - its a very big metapoint in the game that not all courts ARE under the Quincux. That's, again, something evident if one actually reads the book. Similar again to the beholden to a different God thing. If anything, it gets it right because to a lot of Westerners, they don't realize God IS still existant even in polytheistic faiths. Also they don't eat bodies, that's again, ONLY the chinmeh, before you are even considered a Kuejin. Kuejin get the chi needed from blood, hence why they're alike vampires. Also, they produce magical blood (vitae) just like vampires. Yeah, there's a lot of wushu or whatever, but nearly every Asian player didn't mind it or loved it. Me included. You have to remember the cultural currents of when this came out, what was popular. People WANTED to roleplay this. Also, for all it's being derided as just recycled wushu everywhere, it was actually very well researched. Again, at most only a few whiny progs were upset over the Kuejin. Overwhelming majority of the Asian playerbase loved it. Not that our "approval" is needed to like something.

Not just them, every clan has a strong presence in Asia. Hell, the Indian Ventrue (Veddartha) have a serious claim to being the senior branch of the Ventrue Clan.

I doubt theres a major TTRPG that hasn’t had one or more of these scandals in some way. As for Bloodlines 2, I absolutely intend to but Paradox has been incredibly tight-lipped about it. All we know is more info is coming in September. I’m not even sure we know who is working on it. The ARPG, Tender, that preceded the announcement is also very interesting to me.

A lot of it just stems from being sheltered American dudes who wanted to make something cool without much thought.

@@lavalamp505 it makes a ton of sense, they reek of sheltered white boomers.

Russia didn't like that xD

Russia freaked out about it :) - I do wish Paradox had told them to shove it here but losing that market is probably a bit too costly.

@@lavalamp505 its a big market for white wolf, Russia is full of bloodsuckers