I'd love you too build off the aesthetic of mmx, it is a nice hybrid of steel and wood, and has that skeleton clock look you were talking about.

Definitely agree that compactness will bring in some of that beauty! The compact nature really makes the complexity that is there so much more apparent, since you can see in one place just how much goes into the process. Excited to see what comes next in the process!

You did say form by function, so I hope its functional.

the joints would be needed in any case would you go for the bigger maschine. There is no way to align a large mechanical contraption perfectly in stage. You would need to decouple modules anyway using cupplers that allow angle variations as well as smaller misalignments. And thats the crux of the stage-wide marble maschine. So making it compact is an outright necessity of being portable. Else you end up as the equivalent of an organ-maker that needs a immobile building to install his contraption.

Please tell me you can ditch the wings :)

I'll be in row 56 column 1083

I did think it looked a bit like a fascist rally! 😯 Also, a very silly way to stand to watch something in perfect rows behind eachother. Needs to be staggered to give everyone a 'window' 🤭

Don’t forget, we must all have our arms straight out, lifter 45 degrees!

@@thundermagnetHaha! You beat me to it. Perfection.👌😂

Make sure you have your all-gray sweatsuit too!

Indeed. It's a musical marble run structure. That's what's fun about it.

This is the key factor. Deep down, we're all kids that love marble runs.

Indeed. And those paths are the least important for timing, so going wild with them won't hurt the function.

​@@Schmidtelpunktwell... not sure how much of the MMX process you watched...

@@innertuber4049Oh yes, I forgot about the planetary gears... maybe going wild but not too wild would be the better option.

That was my first thought when I saw cardan.

@@paavokaleva concur !

Like this until martin sees this

He showed a double cardan joint. A double cardan joint is CV joint. By the way, I'm pretty sure someone on his Discord engineer server is aware of that.

What he showed on screen does transmit constant velocity as long as you get your angles right.

Unfortunately it comes at a point where the modular concept has not been proven to work in the first place. Instead it added a layer of complexity to a task which on its own is already impossible to accomplish. But the failing will probably be more fun to watch that way.

I'm sure you have achieved a lot and have a lot of joy in your life

@Schmidtelpunkt shut up dork

In another 7 years he will be in the other side again

When you finally reach the conclusion your childhood dream was spot on, then there is nothing more to do but go for it. It’s the audacity to believe that takes people forever to attain, after that it’s just hard work and a whole lot of fun.

Haha, let's wait 3 months. :D

Ehm that's how he went for almost 7 years... and hitting rock bottom because of his fundamental mistakes. I personally think that his chasing this early on the design can be another project killer if he lets his "impulse" to take again, and i would suggest Martin building each piece first and then seeing how would connect together, As far as i know he has done only proof of concepts of specific parts of the machine like the speed control mechanism and the marble drop accuracy, but not the module as a whole, his MMX downfall was that as a whole didn't function properly from the beginning he put the machine together, I hope this just doesn't turn in another failed project.

@@ppprime98KMaybe the problem is not the goals, but the method. Maybe.

And they're readily available as car parts.

This. Or bevel gears.

A double cardan joint (as he showed) solves the consistency problem. It is a type of Constant Velocity joint.

I was about to say that

@@TitoRigatonigood point.

Thought of the same idea. 😀

Floor marbles… *shudder!*

​@@pizzatheface Make the platform a grating with a funnel underneath. Probably won't catch everything, but it could be viable

You're thinking of his brother ;-)

If he agrees to wear a Devo hat for protection I support this.

Martin passion is contagious. I feel like everything will go for the best on this project from now on.

nah you missunderstood what s happening. A 49 yo slim wearing man completely lost who s trying as much as he can to re exist. That s what s hapenning. He s completely delusional. Egocentric, and depressive (he is depressed).

Agreed

Thats because the MMX was poorly planned, the frame wasnt allowing him to add and remove things he wanted to change. So the only way was to angle grind and then weld the next piece. But imagine if he had designed it form by function, imagine how easier it would be. I'm certain that if he makes MMX 3 with all that he has learned, it will succeed.

Pain is temporary, glory is forever

@@prebenkul exactly, he now understands the reason behind modular design, but also that you can create modules within space contraints

at least this time he did it before it was built, right?

it's always much easier to angle grind on paper than on metal

He showed a car that didn't do too badly if the cousin to it that I'm driving is any indication. (WRX vs my Impreza) Except spark plugs. Those suck.

It’s also not really a priority anymore either. These new cars are basically iPads with wheels. I have an air cooled VW. If it has gas and spark it runs. I do most of the work in a lawn chair.

@@grahamthomas9319The car he showed is a 2008-2014 WRX, not exactly an iPad on wheels

Bigger simplifies it significantly! At least it's easier to take apart and put back together. Which will have to happen in hours with no margin for error in the context of a world tour. A denser machine is not simpler! This is a bit more spread out. The animusic thing is ridiculous I must say but it's too cool to dismiss. All it's missing is a kinetic finger the size of a two story building.

@@minerscale bigger light simplify a lot of things as you are more free to make adjustments and they can be a bit less rigorous. Maybe it's easier to separate elements and make modules (easier with different workgroups and easier to disassemble). But it's Martin, je will want to have the notes played perfectly. And synchronising thing a bigger scale can also be a big challenge.

He will also have to deal with the weight of components, thing he had a less to worry about in small machine. Materials will have much more physical constraints. Anyway, like a lot of people, it's hard to finish projects. And easy to start new ones.

The problem with the MMX though was everything was a compromise to fit the form factor... That's why he is moving in this direction... Give the modules space to actually function as intended, you can always shrink things later... You actually see this a lot in high tech developments... Prototypes of tech are normally massive (most games consoles start life looking like a VCR from the mid 80s or a tower PC). Only later do they shrink and gain the clean aesthetic we know. When a team is designing an F1 car the first running engine/power unit is massive and laid bare, it wouldn't fit in a car if they tried! They then refine and shrink the design to get the same output in a smaller unit... I know it's counter intuitive, but having things spread out will help make things function better and play tighter music... As long as the system can be driven reliably (my one concern right now is inertia)... Because there is less compromise, less things in the way, less complexity.

@h__ One of Martin's biggest mistakes of the past few years is one you're making with that analogy. He's not designing either a consumer product or a professional, optimized system. He has problems that "high tech" product designers don't have which he has been ignoring, but worse, those designers have all sorts of problems that Martin doesn't have, yet has been spending way more time trying to solve those problems. He's not designing or building a mass-produced item like a Tesla or an iPhone, or a performance-tested system like an F1 engine, so most of the lessons learned from those designers' processes are of absolutely no use to him. You're talking about making decisions that would need to be tested in a competitive environment (whether a market or a racetrack) and then refined and iterated on before perfecting them in... a MM7 or MM8? Assuming the MM3 is a success, is Martin even going to build a MM4? Is that the goal? Because a finished MM is not a product with a lot of users, nor will it get a lot of use (even if he played a live show with it every week for multiple years), what actionable intel can he possibly hope to gain from its deployment that could even be brought back to the drawing board to refine that process you're talking about? That's one of the reasons that the MMX (and until now the MM3) stalled, sputtered, and was frequently reinvented. He thinks he's doing all this testing, but he's thinking like a product designer not an inventor or artist. He needs to *make choices* and stick with them, and he needs to be less flexible. This requires a lot more faith and trust (and seemingly needless redundancy and error margins) in his design, in the absence of the precise raw data he'll *never* be able to collect (no matter how many marble drops he does). Yes, it also means major consequences if he makes bad choices, but he has to decide now to live with those choices, rather than continually keep his options open until he finds the perfect, and most efficient, flexible, adaptable solutions, because there's fundamentally no way he'll ever get there on this project.

A double cardan joint (as he showed) does not have this problem. It IS a constant velocity joint.

Very true. For double joints.

Legalize it! Oh wait...

Yeah... I think that's coming. If you put form before function then just save the time and money and make a painting. That's not to say that form doesn't matter, but a pretty airplane that can't fly isn't an airplane and it's much harder to make a working airplane than it is to make a pretty airplane.

"Update: I'm having problems with the hydraulic logic gates because the laminar parabolic fountains just don't want to cut on and off with enough precision..."

Next video: My engineer friends at Airbus give me a tour of the manufacturing plant where the marble machine's jet engine will be constructed

soo true, i know we have to wait but jesus the progress on the MMX was real this are just ideas and ideas and ideas.... i honestly dont watch the whole thing anymore i just skip

I don't want for it to be finished because I enjoy the journey much more :)

You’re wrong. The process is a life. But result is a tod! Let’s do Martin an art

Absolutely. I would love to see some elliptical curve joints in the finished machine.

Bezier?

Quantum entanglement! Send the marbles through other universes!

Cryptographic marble machine

Infinitely tighter angles

A double cardan joint (as he showed) does not have this problem. It IS a constant velocity joint.

It's also when to spot a feeping creaturism, and when to say "NO!" And this can take a lifetime to master. It makes the difference between projects that NEVER deliver, and projects deliver and blow people away even if you have your regrets about what had to left out, and (shudder) Star Wars: Special Edition. NEVER GO FULL GEORGE LUCAS.

"Beeing?" Also, Martin isn't an engineer.

You also can't say yes to everything the designer wants either. You have to find the balance between design, function, and deliverability. That's what makes a great engineer.

THIS. I loved the jank of it.

It was put together on instinct not CAD drawings. I don't think the new process is able to deliver anything as fun as the first two machines.

Cardan joint are non linear, you should take care when you use them

A constant velocity (CV) joint may be needed to keep the rotation speed well, constant. @@r.e.m.s

Yes, but MMX had a slightly different charm that’s equally valid, which was a beautifully and articulate engineered look, which is what he’s going for now. I personally like the MMX a lot more than the original.

Steam whistles!!!!

No. He powers it with punk.

@@woowooNeedsFaithMaybe Steampunk marbles powered by steam?

This is something I’ve been saying all along. After abandoning MMX, he moved to a engineering/cad/webcam model and it just didn’t have the same charm. It always seemed like not being able to take the machine on a world tour was a failure of his to produce art, when in reality the reason many people came and stayed was because the videos were the art we were seeking. Along with whimsy was music; having a soundtrack to a video of a cnc machine was somehow cool. Recently I’ve felt a return to the previous era and I’m excited for it. Also when you think about it, let’s say he books a wildly successful world tour, 100 cities and 1000 people per city, that’s 100,000 who will get to see it on tour. About 3-4% of total subscribers. If I had to guess, closer to 99% of subscribers will never see it in person by the time it’s done. Which is really all just to say, most of us are here just to watch the process. And personally as long as the process is entertaining, I’m fine with however long it takes and how ever many changes he makes. And glad he seems a lot happier and inspired by the project.

When was the last time Martin played a marble machine?

Actually I think I would like a music focused episode again at some point. I always liked those!

Don’t you want to see a new prototype for marble gate version 612

I think Martin needs to decide what he wants to be when he grows up... a Musician that makes music, or a wanna be designer / engineer that just makes KZfaq content?

@@douglascaskey7302 Mmmm Patreon Money 🤤

back in my day Wintergatan was a band putting out albums. 11 years of this machine madness.

3:20 Double joint eliminates this concern.

@@owensparks5013 but only if input and output are parallel, eliminating the purpose of a cardan joint!

They're a quick hack in the mind. If you want to put things at an angle, you can get gears or probably a thousand things. It's about the concept now. Once that is more refined, he can indeed start looking for solutions again

U-joints don't rotate with a constant speed. The cardan joint (or, as I know it, the CV (constant-velocity) joint) solves this problem by using two U-joints set up so that the change in rotational velocity from one of the U-joints is exactly countered by an equal but opposite change in velocity from the second U-joint. Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

Constant velocity joints are a better idea

Consider rzeppa joint instead.

That can be solved using a double cardan shaft with correct phasing and alignment, or a double cardan joint. Still, the middle piece won't have constant velocity and will generate vibrations

This is wrong, using a double u joint as shown cancels the effect (provided the angles are equal).

Yep, but morons keep repeating this@@jdmjesus6103

The cruel irony of this is that that amount of oscillation is likely small enough to still play "tight enough" music, especially at the BPMs he wants the machine to play at, but when Martin sees all the comments about it he's going to have an identity crisis. Like, how important is "must play tight music" to the project, really? Should it still be the first priority? Second?

The MM and MMX were beautifully compressed. You could see a very complex, top-heavy machinery-cube standing on grotesque looking thin legs. They were both perfectly proportional with regards to the operator. It was something between an instrument and... a musician on its own. Just like the "Strandbeests" are not only machines but also characters with personality. The design you are showing us now feels much too exploded. It becomes a part of the scene, a weird background.

​@@bzqp2 Yeah that's what I thought but couldn't word to myself

@@bzqp2 I agree. What I liked about the previous versions is that it felt like a single, complex, object.

I don't because he hasn't built anything beside proof of concepts of parts

Because the goal is the KZfaq revenue, not the “world tour” or completed machine.

He cancelled his Patreon when ending the MMX. If the funds were his goal he would not have done that. And he would have milked the MMX by producing all kind of songs.

It's become a grift at this point

@@altwouss I don't understand the combination of his meticulous approach to creating every detail and the failure of the original concept. This should have happened much earlier.

What part of this is small?

@@br52685 He says verbally that he is going to compact it.

@@Jesse_Carl he says a lot of things….but doesn’t deliver.

@@br52685 Lol, you can always just unsubscribe and stop watching. I'm just here to enjoy the journey

There’s been cool ideas from day 1. What is really needed here, is the ability to bring that idea into reality. If Martin doesn’t like the way it looks, he should perhaps hire a professional product designer to translate his ideas into plans for engineers to translate into reality.

@@SuperCuriousFox you're completely off base. - Martin was limiting his ideas as he learned and tried to implement engineering 1st focus. We don't want a constricted project, we want the all in bet. - there's no way it makes any sense to hire anybody to do design work on his own project. It's not a product, it's allot more like his art piece. He's already crowd sourcing the solution search to the mechanical solutions. - engineers aren't people who take premade plans and build them. That's a construction crew's job, or a factory. Engineers are the ones who make the plans based on set goals. They problem solve the drawings and goals to find a way that it can be built. When you call them too early in the process they tend to tell you "you shouldn't do that, that part is too hard... Ect" because we're all lazy people and it's not worth the effort as a 3rd party. But the designer is the one who knows if that change matters to the goal or not. Martin really has got this. He has a clear idea of the end goal, he just has to go through and put in all the little details that matter. Afterwards the engineering viewers can fill in the gaps to make it come together.

Yeah, that's what the crowd wants, cameras...

@@SquantFor a concert? Definitely. Most people will barely see the machine up close anyway when it’s being played during a show.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo