that moment when dancing all night is super cannon to persona 5 because it redoubled rises intrest into being an idol and one of the posters in game features her and is flat out named an "idol poster" if you get it in your room

Yeah but you never explained where Snowboard Kids fits in

zelda fans: my series has the most confusing timeline megaten fans: (crying)

Now imagine all of this plus Devil May Cry timeline. lol

I didn't think that there could be a timeline more confusing then Kingdom Hearts. You have proved me wrong.

Everything was spot on except that the Devil Survivor games might be right after Strange Journey and before SMT4 because of the SDF mentions, The Demonica's, and The mention of God's Plan from DS 1 other than that it was spot on

6:55 It's entirely possible that Nakajima never released his version of the Demon summoning program to the public, and that stephen simply invented the same or a very similar version of the program entirely independent of Nakajima.

some points I like but others not so much, also isnt it confirmation Vincent's inclusion in P3P to just be a cameo and have no connection to Persona or any other smt game other than the fact a Goddess is attacking humans

Me: Man, I so much fun playing Persona 5, and the the earler games seem really fun too! *plays P3 after beating P5* "Shin Megami Tensei"? What kind of subtitle is that? *a few Google searches later* Oh I get it. Persona was a spin off from a largee series! They even have all the same shadows! So that meams there are other games just like P5! I wonder how they are all connected... Oh, theres a youtube video here... maybe it'll explain all that weird shit at the end of P5... *watches video* _what the fuck_

And I thought Zelda timeline was bad

In DDS2 there's a pretty major optional sidequest which ties into SMT II. In the quest you have to face all 4 Archangels before eventually fighting Satan in the final dungeon. The interesting thing is that all of the Archangels and Satan make clear reference to the fact that their solar data isn't just that of any normal demons but that it's very likely crossed over from the universe of SMT II. The Archangels seem really fucking confused about this since they know nothing of DDS2's universe but it's also very important because it implies they haven't been there for very long at all so there's a decent chance SMT II and DDS2 are almost happening at the same time.

Your best bet is just to forget Megami Tensei since its clear they got rebooted to Shin Megami Tensei

Where the underrated games fit: Giten Megami Tensei: Tokyo Mokushinroku (False Goddess Reincarnation) takes place in a alternate universe to SMT 1 according to wikia. Shin Megami Tensei:20XX is a side story take takes place between SMT 1 and SMT 2 along with its Prequel SMT: 20XX Devil's Colosseum SMT Devil Hunter Zero and SMT Dx2 Liberation could take place after Devil Survivor 2. Aigis: First Mission canonically takes place 10 years before the events of Persona 3. SMT If...: Hazama Chapter takes place before SMT If... (Feel free to state what I missed)

The beauty about the SMT franchise is that any ending or ordeals, can create a different universe. SPOILER for SMT 4 Apocalypse dlc notes. Stephens explains that there are worlds that Flynn created that wasn't the current one that Nanashi lived in. Such as siding with the alien, Lucifer, Siding Merkabah, Making the world into nothing or the neutral route where Nanashi declined Dagda's offer. So it's possible for it all to be connected and it gives the creator's to make a story based on any endings of the franchise. It was on that first note that Stephen pretty much said all endings are canon.

im pretty new to the series so idk half these games but it was fun to watch. you put a really good video together.

This is by far the best explained video I’ve seen on this topic, I loved it!

Great video! I love the fun doodles explaining things

I don't know enough smt to agree or disagree but I can tell you that P2: EP doesn't not overwrite/erase IS. At the end of EP Tatsuya says he's going back t his world to rebuild, so that universe exists, but it's more an alternate universe.

Thanks to your chart and additional infos this is more clearer than I could ever hope for

Sorry to be the what music guy, but what is the song at 12:30 ?

Digital Devil Saga happen - Demi-Fiend: Just passing through

IM SO HYPE FOR THIS SERIES

If you considering Dante from dmc as a alternative cannon then let’s just say that SMT 3 nocturne happened at the end of DMC 2 Dante’s story during the time Dante was at hell which was a gateway to that world take took place in Nocturne & SOMEHOW, he found a way to come back home at Lucia’s ending. It’s not clear how but we can say it’s somekind of demon teleportation that Dante found a way to use it to get back to his home thus leading to DMC4!

IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!

YHVH looks like my brother painted gold after he gets kicked in the nuts.

*Mind blown* Thanks a lot for your awesome timeline theory, man. c:

Uh, that bit about Vincent's cameo included in P3P and the Full Body DLC with Joker, it's pretty much the same thing as the episode of The Simpsons where they cross-over with Futurama. Sure, it's a fun and memorable cross-over, but it's hard to consider it canon because of a few continuity issues, such as how in Catherine, Vincent talks about his problems not with the P3 protagonist, but with his colleges and it takes place at a completely different setting and city which isn't Port Island and also that if you look at Persona 5, several details strongly hints at Catherine existing in the Persona universe as a fictional franchise much like here in the real world, and some details of Full Body hints at the other way around. So, if each series exist in the other as a fictional franchise, there's no way they can take place in the same universe, right?

this is why I love megaten, the games allow you to loosely create your own interpretations on how they are connected, the only game I couldn't really fit in was DeSU2

I love you. You fixed my problem with so many 'theory' videos which rely on Easter eggs. And when criticized they use the six degrees of separation as a scapegoat. Thank you for not doing that.

I love how after the apocalypse there are still video games

“trust me, it makes sense in context” pretty much sums up all of megami tensei

I'm gonna take a wild guess and say Manjin Tensei, Manjin Tensei: Blind Thinker II, Manjin Tensei II: Spiral Nemesis, and Ronde( Technically Majin Tensei III) take place in an alternative universe where only Megami Tensei 1 and 2 happened since Atlus stated those games are now canon.

subscribed liked your videos regarding megaten lately

Thor nuking Japan is probably the weirdest bit of lore until Stephen NotHawking gets involved in the 3DS era.

I'm so fucking lost

Omg the covers of the first few SMT games looks like the the cover of Gorrilaz's demon dayz cover

We desperately need more hands on deck researching SMT lore and/or get SMT 5 to give us straight answers

Besides the weird spongebob music at the beginning which threw me off a bit xD....great video overall Although I don't entirely agree with placing Catherine here But I do have a theory regarding how Tartarus and the "TV"world might be connected to the expanse\Makai but I'll save that until i fully play Persona 5 cuz delving too deep into that would cause me to go into massive spoilers

I came into this video looking to understand more of the Megami Tensei timeline and left more confused LMAO

Maybe each of different games occur in their own Universe, using the Multiverse theory. Where the ties is the multiple choices and endings of the games can lead to creation of multiple Universes, like the Zelda or Pokemon parallel universe or multiverse.

My timeline includes Fire emblem and Tokyo mirage sessions so its objectively better...

The most fun part of this chart is inclusion of catherine that makes the bartender a YHVH or at least a pieces of him lol

IT'S ALL CONNECTED

oh my god this was made when people still honestly thought dmc2 came after 4

Okay now I’m curious if the Persona series exists in the Dante edition for Nocturne. It doesn’t really mean a whole lot, but it makes me wonder for sure.

Thanks Atlas

Soo in a nutshell, this a series of games that you Bond with demons of law or of chaos to make you own path. Depending of the path you chose it may lead the world to law or chaos and create different realities based if you wanted to go with God or with the devil. Mainline is basically all of this but with a post apocalyptic Japan, and the persona timeline is where the day is saved and the world doesn't get destroyed

Really enjoy your content man. I actually just started doing a megaten compendium Starting with what I call the Bel edition from devil survivor . If you have any advice for me since I'm just starting out I'd appreciate it. Keep up the videos man. I stay Subscribed lol

Maybe Stephen made a different demon summoning program, completely unaware of Nakajima's. Also great video :D

Only History that should be taught in school lmao

I love it! Where can I see and study your timeline? Can I print it for my reference? Is there a web page?

This makes enough sense for me to accept it as fact until someone tells me otherwise

I like it!

confusing as fuck. Great video indeed though! i need to play through more of the SMT backlog.

I'd like to propose an addendum. P3P happens after P3 the Journey yet before the Answer. Allow me to present my case: At the end of the Journey, the protagonist becomes the great seal, becoming a weird stone thing both living as the seal and dying as a person. Additionally Persona 3 and Persona 3 Portable have a very unique New Game Plus (at least in the persona series) where the protagonist keeps his level while the rest of the cast resets. So if we look at the Journey and P3P as stories told from the protagonist's perspective, it can be seen as the protagonist reliving the last year of his life to occupy his mind (or maintain the seal or whatever), trying to see what he could have done differently or even how that year would have changed if he were a different gender. It should also be noted that The Answer doesn't have a New Game Plus, probably because the cast and protagonist get to keep moving forward with life at the end not reliving the events that led to their deaths. Just a theory but I think it holds water PLUS it makes the FeMC from P3 cannon and that makes me happy

The Spongebob music for Megami Tensei I + II was hilarious.

🙌 thanks

ha zelda timeline is hard don't make me laugh that's child's play compare to this

If only there was some madlad out there who would make a chart of the SMT timeline, the Persona timeline, the DMC timeline, the Fire Emblem timeline, and the Bayonetta timeline and where exactly they all connect

Is this an updated version of a previous video. I could have sworn you had another smt multiverse video.

What happens with SMT:NINE and SMT:Imagine, they are there but are no explained

That alef storyline sounds just like the one with Satan and God in Devilman

So the persona universe experienced its death and rebirth after philamon resets, giving the persona 2 cast a chance?

If you think about The dmc remake was actually a post game conception ending

Pretty solid timeline. The split that leads to the Devil Summoner/Persona universe is actually pretty straightforward I think. Obviously putting Devil May Cry into it, even if tongue in cheek, is a lot harder now as of DMC5 (and the retconning of DMC2 taking place between DMC1 and 4 now.). I think an easy way around that is to just say that while DMC2 era Dante was lost in Hell for a while before finding his way back, he maybe travelled to another universe for a bit, before backtracking to try and find the "right" portal back to his univerese again. Places like Hell don't have to abide by the same rules as the "normal" mortal world I figure. To be honest, I still think the Zelda timeline(s) are weirder, if only because there's so much guess work with implied details some times, and other times just educated guessing whereas at least the Megami Tensei timeline branches are somewhat supported by the games' tendencies towards multiple endings and a somewhat established supernatural glue that binds it all together.

Didn't someone in SMT If recall seeing someone running around with a COMP and a dog?

I would love to see an update on this

me who watched this so he knows whats going on before he buys shin megami tense 5 thank you now i can go in wit more knowledge

Before chemistry confused me now Atlus and Capcom confuses me

Dante: So where do I fit in all of this?

Hmm its an interesting concept. I view it as this: SMT1 >[Inbetween you have SMT Online]> SMT 2 (assuming you take the neutral route from SMT1)> SMT 3 in reality is a what if to 1 and 2 but a continuation, in where Teleportation wasnt discovered and Steven is dead. Aleph from 2 is now forever in the Amala Network and was reincarnated as Hijiri. Im assuming SMT 2 Earth just died and never was reincarnated as hinted in 3 when it is stated its a possibility of not happening. SMT Strange Journey is a separate universe altogether though it was always a possible future as the tech appears in SMT 4. SMT 4 and Final are the events of 1 and 2 happening about 10 to 15 years later than it should have happened. SMT 4 Final is like SMT1 where the neutral route is taken leading to Final which is SMT2. Nanashi maybe another reincarnate of Aleph or as Stephen King would call him in the dark tower series a Twinner. There was something I was thinking a while back, Aleph is a Hebrew letter which shows in the Tarot card the Fool. I believe Aleph's curse spreads further throughout the universe, making me think he is Cain in some way, which would tie him to the Survivor series and the persona series, as Cain was the first human to commit the ultimate sin.

Correct me if I'm wrong but Devil Survivor must have happened after SMT III, because Black Frost appeared in III for the first time.

Well this is something. I think I kinda understand the timeline of SMT universe. At least it wasn't THAT complicated unlike Kingdom Hearts. I love your vid and your cute drawings.

The Devil May Cry Timeline,The Fire Emblem Timeline and The Yazuka Timeline lol those too.

Yo Nyth, here's a question. There's a lot of timelines and universes in the SMT franchise, and I've noticed that there might be some untold stories in some games regarding the demons. For example, let's take Megami Tensei and SMT 1. In Megami Tensei, Loki was being a huge douche and I'd imagine he was an agent of the Chaos alignment, and in SMT 1, Thor disguised as a general, nukes Tokyo and the world in the name of YHWH if I remember correctly. But you see them both in Nocturne on the opposite spectrum at the beginning of the games, Thor is with the Chaos folks going all "Might is right!" And Loki is with the Law party running his own bar and just chilling, as if he's all partied out from all that chaos and destruction. So what gives? Do you think these guys are the same incarnations of the characters in past games and are trying something new with how they approach their lives? And if that's the case, do you believe the demons, at least the semi important like these 2 besides grunts retain the memories of past games?

I've seen some variations of the timeline that has Devil Summoner in between SMT if.... and P1, and Soul Hackers between P1 and P2. What makes you place them before any of those game within that universe?

Here's a theory about how devil may cry blends with megami tensei. If anyone knows devil may cry ends with 2 because devil may cry 2 takes place after devil may cry 4, at the end of devil may cry 2 we see Dante ride off into a deeper part of hell due to being trapped in hell. What if he actually ended up I'm nocturne due to a portal being open and him going through said portal. My assumption is that this portal opens due to the end of the original world being destroyed and a gated way open they just so happen to allow Dante to escape hell but appear in the realm of the recreation the difficult theory is figuring out what happens next. I understand cameos but to me it doesn't seem like just a cameo

Wow. I'll go with it :)

So the reason the izanagi of persona 4 wear high school cloth is because it is the hero of megami tensei.

I need the list of music made use in this video so I can go listen

Loki mcu meet loki smt : " Why I look like from hell"

Came here in 2024, more confused than ever.

How can DDS take place after an ending in nocturne where the world doesn’t get fixed?

I guess my simple version is wrong. I thought that is looked like Persona->Devil Survivor/Summoner->SMT (with other sandwiched in there somewhere) due to it seeming like a slow progression from thought forms to full demons. I based this on only playing P5, Devil Survivor 2, and SMT4/4A. I read the explanation of the Nature of the Demons in SMT4 (the Yamato Reactor part) and the nature of Personas as explained in P5, saw the level of devastation in DS2 and SMT4 with the lack of said devastation in P5.

I literally just got into this franchise and I'm playing SMT 1 right now. Isn't SMT 4 basically SMT 1?

how are Jack Bro and Demi Kids/Devil Children related? idk much about them also were do Majin Tensei and Last Bible fit in?

What about Tokyo Mirage Sessions? Where would that fit in the timeline?

I would of enjoyed to see your theory on the last Bible series. But oh well.

10:02 I notice that there is a red arrow under the black arrow, what does this mean?

6:55 well, stephen created a better version of the DSP while nakajima's required a powerful CPU to function. Plus, Nakajima's was probably limited, as he summoned only 2 demons, with Loki requiring sacrifices. Stephen made a version where you can communicate better and have more demons in place

i started with persona 3 i got as a Christmas gift that the gifter later admitted they got last minute out of the bargin bin now 7 years later i have spent almost 1000 hours in this series never bin so happy someone got my gift last minute, i may have never gotten into it otherwise

Seems about right.

It should be called "Stephen's universe"

some one mentioned pazuzu... is pazuzu up in this instance?

This timeline is bogus and has A TON of flaws. 1: Dancing All Night is 100% canon to the Persona timeline. Persona 5 confirms this. It takes place a little less than a year after Persona 4 and a few months after the Golden Epilogue. (September 2012) 2: Persona Q, Q2, and P3/P5 dancing are all semi-canon. They technically did happen, but happened in worlds "outside of time and space" so none of the characters remember them and it didn't impact the main world at all. The only ones who remember are the velvet Siblings since they're already outside of time. 3: Raido 2 has a three way split timeline. Law Ending leads to SMT1 and SMT2, Chaos Ending leads to Nocturne and SMT5, and Neutral leads to DS/Persona. 4: DMC2 takes place between DMC1 and DMC4, not after DMC4. 5: SMT9 is canon to the main timeline taking place at the same time as SMT Imagine. (between SMT1 pre and post time skip) 6: DeSu is a different timeline to the rest of the series because God is actually somewhat benevolent there. The only connection is that Honda's early bad ending/Yuzu's non-8th day ending or bad 8th day ending MAY lead to SMT4/4A, but is unlikely due to God in DeSu being so different than his incarnation in 4A. The split was likely in ancient times when Bel won against God but God later got revenge by splitting Bel into fragments. 7: SJ is NOT connected to SMT4. After SJ Neutral the swartzvelt comes back and kills everyone, not nukes. The only ending where that could potentially happen in Redux's new neutral, but considering humanity is still around thousands of years later that's highly unlikely since in SMT4 gods plan takes place in 2013. 8: Also, some people did survive the nukes post-gods plan as seen in Blasted Tokyo where the dome didn't exist. Due to time dilation inside the dome over 1500 years passed in the "real world" outside the dome while only 25 years passed in Tokyo. This means that by the end of SMT4 the world outside the dome has likely recovered from the nukes and humanity is probably decently repopulated. Remember, 1500 years ago in the real world was the FREAKING ROMAN EMPIRE. That's a lot longer than you may think, over 50 generations. If God's Plan happened in let's say 2013, 1500 years later would be 3513 AD which is FAR into the future. The world can CERTAINLY recover in that long of a time. 9: Cathrine takes place in the far future. The entire game actually takes place in a space colony, not on earth. And, in canon, the entire game of Cathrine is just a pulpy late night TV drama put on by a few notable daemons (mainly Ishtar) though Vincent's (or at least a version of Vincent) appearance in P3P brings question to this theory of Vincent being a fictional character. Maybe the "Vincent" in P3P is just his actor? IDK. 10: MT1 is canon to SMT1, but not MT2. Nakajima didn't develop the actual DSP, just a prototype of it. Steven made the actual finished version. 11: Demikids is a different universe altogether and is NOT connected to Jack Bros. 12: DDS is not connected to any other game besides itself. The split was likely in ancient times where Brahman claimed the empirian throne instead of God. However, the sun in DDS contains data from all worlds, which is why you're able to fight the Demi Fiend from SMT3 as well as the archangels and Satan from SMT2.

Unless I'm forgetting, wasn't the mutiverse confirmed by YHVH in Megami Tensei 2?

Te thing is, the Axiom and YHVH are not the same thing, so if you go for TDE in Nocturne, you actually go and try to destroy every single universe, so it would seem that the boss battle in DDS is canon in the sense that they helped The Axiom to defeat the demifiend.

so how could i make this tie into Fire emblem? i have been making a fire emblem rom hack that is a remake of the third game but demons and characters from SMT rather appear out of nowhere at a convient plot point, but I do not have an honest idea on how to tie it in well. My original concept was something about the yamato reactor bringing them to the world of FE but other than that i got nothing lol

Ok, but what about that one time sonic showed up in one of the games?

devil survivor 2 being canon to the book makes the most sense cos the villain from the book is in it