why cant we drink the water?

I've never really had any issues with Subnautica and that entire game is underwater, which also has a very well process of depth as mentioned.

Always remember… If you think the water level you’re playing is bad, don’t forget Kingdom Hearts 2’s “Atlantica” still exists.

the wall kick/grab idea is GENIUS! it's actually my favorite part about real world swimming it's crazy that no game (as far as I know) has incorporated it. it seems like such an obvious mechanic.

A good exception is Majora's Mask Zora form. The swimming in that game has such good controls. Quick, responsive, and with a magic barrier attack that keeps you moving.

If splatoon had a water level I’d imagine it’d more of be like an aquarium kinda thing or giving you a suit that seals water and if could be a gimmick like cracks in the glass or you have to keep the suit sealed with air.

All the drawn characters in this video look so nice… I’m not into video games, but I ended up watching the whole video just for the art

I think tropical freeze have some of my favorite water levels, period. One of them doesn’t even take place underwater- it takes place in a JUICE FACTORY. You’re swimming around in pink juice to avoid sharks and giant juicers. It’s so good.

I love how Madz can do a video pretty much on any gaming related topic and makes it so interesting aha ALSO THE VISUALS ARE AMAZING AHH!

Most of the time in video games, I am mentally propelled AWAY from water like a magnet. The only time this hasn't happened for me that I noticed is in Majora's Mask. Once you get the Zora Mask, swimming becomes SO much more fun because it is faster and you have more control. Perhaps if games were to add an item or ability early on that made swimming faster and more fun, maybe the water levels will become more bearable.

I think Ori’s Luma Pools are amazing. The controls are pretty good, the switch between underwater and land is a key element and you can absolutely shoot out of the water. Also the environment is not the generic beach theme it’s a magical shell place with pink trees and it looks really good too

3:53 finally the sprite sea

You know, I'm actually on a game dev career path, so, once I'm able to get started, I'll take your suggestions and ideas into consideration! I agree, the ocean, and underwater environments in general, have SO MUCH POTENTIAL.. unfortunately gets wasted.

If there’s any game that does ocean levels well it’s Rayman Origins/Legends. They have it all: -No oxygen limit -Underwater Schmovement -diverse environments It’s good trust me

0:01 *_THE GAMING_*

As an aspiring game designer, One of my life goals would be to revolutionize water leves for the reasons you described in the video And yes we should talk about the super chad Minecraft 1.13 water movement more often

Well, I think the answer to all these things you asked for is the horrifying game I bought and never got out of the first area. Subnautica. It’s really easy to swim, there is the depth you mentioned, and it’s incredibly diverse. Problem is it’s so scary with the leviathans.

The animation is sooooo good! a big improvement on the art style too!

I love water levels in Kirby games, they usually have a specific *flow* to them that makes them fun while not having them overstay their welcome ☺️

Pretty clever use of the game boy start up sound ngl 1:41

Your production quality and value over the years man, I’m shedding a tiny tear. S’beautiful And I’m right there with you. Beautiful colorful ocean life, FLUID controls, it’s untapped and ripe for good gameplay!

when i played mario oddessy i turned off assistant mode when I got to the lake kingdom bcus it (assisted mode) lets you breathe underwater. I was SO confused trying to find the boss fight w/o arrows lol

1:03 if there was an underwater level nobody would get to play as they would just keep drowning or exploding whatever

There's also a game themed around water: ABZÛ It's a short indie game with very beautiful environments (and music--) You can grab onto large fish and swim along with it. You can even jump out from water!! Feels amazing I'm actually surprised I don't see it mentioned that much

If there's no water in a video game, then no man can fall into the river in Lego City. This would be a massive problem.

I think the best example is the zora mask from majoras mask. No breathing and jet ski controls makes it super fun if only the great bay had went deeper underwater and had more enclosed areas and swimming challenges.

6:02 This might sound weird, but Roblox in my opinion has a great water system. In the game Quill Lake, you dive underwater and collect artifacts. You have to first unlock freediving training, then a scuba suit, then specialty scuba suits designed for extreme heat, extreme cold, eradiated water, and even a disguise to enter a ghost pirate area. Basically, the deeper you go, the more stuff you have to do to successfully enter that area. It also has a blur effect is you're in an area that is dangerous to your current diving setup.

I’ve never watched one of your videos before but this was amazing, the visuals and ideas were all perfect. Although it doesn’t mean much from one random person, you’ve earned a like and subscribe without a doubt 👍

You can literally tell how the developers themselves dont want you to spend much time in the water, why would they otherwise limit your oxygen so you have to leave the water every few moments? Now that I think about it, that is really a weird design, them giving us a very limited time to spend in this environment they designed for us... they must hate water levels as much as everyone else

If there’s one game I think has good underwater levels, I’d have to say Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze. Sure, yeah, slippery controls, but that’s pretty much a given in underwater levels. But there are enough movement options to keep it interesting and fast paced more so than other games. And I noticed the art style improvement! It looks great!

There is so much work put into these videos. The art and animation in this one especially is stellar and it's so visually engaging. You did not need to go this hard but I want to be vocal about how impressive it is!

With the having to breath thing, it'd be cool in a 3D zelda game to get a snorkel or some item/clothing set that allows you to go breathe under water

It's awesome when you change your artstyle ever so slightly every video but still a very beautifully animated video

Personally I think oxygen is a perfectly fine mechanic. It just needs to be tuned to take longer, or be more accessible, or at least give players an option to have equipment. Having the oxygen meter imo adds a proper amount of tension, and can even be used to be purposefully scary for properly themed levels. I think the fear of it would be alleviated by more fun swimming mechanics like the ones you mentioned. Personally I'm also a fan of water levels and absolutely hate when a game makes me die when I touch water or doesn't let me explore it, or god forbid, even has an invisible wall in front of it. These days you really gotta test if water will kill you or not as it's never clear whether it will or not.

Wow what a great video!! It was an interesting essay with great humor, great tunes, and FANTASTIC consistent visuals!! You and your team can consider yourselves a new source of inspiration for me and I'm sure many others! Keep up the juicy content! Easy sub :)

The Spyro trilogy had my favorite water levels. Sometimes I'd revisit them just to...hang around. There was no oxygen mechanic so there was no rush. It was just pretty.

Idk whats different in this video BUT I LOVED IT, THE VISUALS AND PACING WERE SO PERFECT OMG Glad to see you back Madz!

Subnautica has got me be my favorite water based video game of all time it's extremely fun and if you haven't played it you should definitely give it a try.

really liked this video, as well as the ideas you brought to fix these issues with water levels! I hope you'll grow even more!!

Yo, just found your channel. Love the video, lots of fun. Absolutely in love with your character art. It's so fun and expressive.

Kingdom Hearts 1’s Atlantica is legitimately one of the most painful gaming experiences in the industry, from the stupid dolphin mechanics to the abysmal Ursula final boss, it’s just a sad mess all around.

5:17 I haven't heard that name in a while. All jokes aside though, Gloo Gloo is one of if not the best water level in terms of controls and stuff like that

Okay this depth idea is really cool. Might use this mechanic in one of my game projects, it would fit in nicely

this is amazing. I've wanted someone to make a video like this for SUCH a long time!

Can we address how In 3D Mario games (With 3D World as an exception) Mario has an air meter, but in the 2D Games, he can swim underwater fine without an air limit. 🤔

3:14 Fun fact, now we've acttually explored 20%

Kirby epic yarn has exactly what you're talking about when it comes to pressure. More specifically with the dolphin power up and I've got to say it's real fun to mess around with :)! It also proves it can be done

I'm SO glad Kirby and the Forgotten Land got water levels right!

I like how Shovel Knight did water. Your speed stays the same but your jump is enhanced and your descent is slightly slower. More control, less restrictions, adds on to the overall gameplay.

Ok I'm going to make a niche reference: *Jumpstart* They had an underwater area and it was so fun; no breathing, big open world, fun quests, you could walk on the floor or swim, it was so good

You should do more videos like this. It’s fun to hear creative solutions and it gets viewers thinking.

Your illustrations and animations are great!!

I know a 3D game that dose water levels really well Spyro the dragon In Spyro you can dash underwater witch means you can move freely underwater and faster as well Also there’s no air meter so you don’t have to worry about drowning There’s also games that take place entirely underwater like ubosu and subnadinca

I love how in Mario kart the underwater makes you more floaty and faster in currents. Plus some of the best tracks in the series are underwater. Koopa Cape, piranha plant slide, Wario Shipyard, Dolphin shoals etc

When I learn about game design, I totally want to attempt this water moveset you're conceiving! OH, and btw, your art style is visually appealing! Props to you!

One game I absolutely love and has a lot of water levels is a ds game called The Legendary Starfy! There is no oxygen meter because you play as a starfish named starfy, and you get to swim around just as fast as you run on land. I remember having so much fun spin attacking underwater, because it gives starfy an underwater boost and drill attacks any enemy in your way. And there were underwater currents that made you swim faster, and in a future world, there were floating water bubbles that you had to swim-jump from bubble to bubble. It was a blast.

In Pikmin 4 I would love to see a location that takes place in a coral reef or the deepest depths of the ocean. That could lead to some more ridiculously cool boss fights and character designs!

I didn't know madz was obsessed to just some hydrogen and oxygen mixed together.

So I really like the idea of being able to grab and kick off of surfaces! But I feel in an action game (Think of something like Kingdom Hearts for example) we cna expand upon it. What if you could use the walls and enemies in your attacks? Like imagine being able to use an enemy, and then kick off of them to home in on anothet target. Additionally, you could kick off the walls to dive at your foes! If you are good you can chain these together and make them part of your combos. In a way, It's like Flowmotion from Dream Drop Distance. But I feel that it could work so well!

4:41 Wowza!

Nintendo water looks so quenchable it would taste so good

2:44 the sonic rush adventure soundtrack 🔥🔥

Your section about depth reminds me of some of the underwater levels in the mobile game Super Cat Tales 2, on a visual level. There's certain levels where all you can see is a small radius around the cat you're playing as, but there's obstacles and enemies around you in the darkness.

0:20 fish

When I first saw this, I was like “Mass is totally gonna talk about subnautica” Nope

For me, I just don’t like the sudden slowness of water levels.

I just now discovered you, but your art style is beyond amazing

if you want a game with good water levels try "The Legendary Starfy" (half the game takes place under water), its an old game for the ds but it might be on some virtual consoles considering how they made starfy an assist trophy in smash

Actually a great video. perfect Idea and execution. Your content is the prefect blend of comedy and actual talk about game design. You and GMTK are some of my fav youtubers :)

Have you played ABZU? The whole game is underwater and fixes like everything you’ve talked about. The controls are fun and you move quickly which makes it the best water controls in my opinion.

Not sure if this fits here but there's a game, GO Vacation, where you can freely roam around in the resorts. Mii's are also playable. You can swim around in the water but you can't free dive, which is kinda disappointing. There's a SCUBA activity but that's different. I would love to freedive around in the Marine Resort with a Mii buddy following me or having a holding-breath-competition. Or how about something like this but in Wuhu Island? That would be cool, too!

aesthetic on fleek! keep it up madzzzzzzzzz

Getmadz: uploads a video Everyone: the return of the king.

This is one of my favorite videos of yours. The Wii sports resort music at some bit of the bit made me realize something. I would LOVE to see a game that's like Wii Sports Resort, but with a priority for water activities

This animation is AMAZING! Great work!

Your art styles amazing!😍

Absolutely LOVED the little talking bits with you floating in the water! Glad to see some spice to the vids!

Dude water levels will always be my favorite type of level Everything about them is just so fresh but I do agree there were missed oppurtunities

4:07 THERE ARE NO POSITIVE POINTS

i think this is like my favorite animated character / gameplay type channel now

Madz art styles are like pimples.... *They always pop up and are always changing.*

Madz I’m so happy that you’ve switched game related videos, you’re content has really elevated beyond whats it used to be since. Say awesome man

I like the paint art stile And the ocean stile is FANTASTIC

I feel like a good example of how to due controle in a water area is the Zora Mask in Majoras Mask. Unlike in Ocarina of Time were you just kinda slog around in the water at a snails pace, the Zora form lets you swim through the water like a hot knife through butter, and unsurprisingly it is actually fun to have just as much controle in water as on land. Hell I would argue it is alot funner swimming in the game than walking around (just like real life). I wish more games would have swimming like this, since imo the swimming itself is what makes or breakes a water level.

i love this new animation style and the expressions! It goves you a lot more personality :)

Subnautica is a water game done right. The only problems are the pop in (which is even worse on switch) and the leviathans that want to kill you.

One water "level" I liked was the Great Bay in Majora's Mask. Not the dungeon, but the ocean area where I was allowed to swim as Zora Link like a dolphin. the controls were fantastic... but instead of the dungeon having more open rooms to take advantage of the fast swimming... it was just used to go through tunnels. There were open rooms where you could move Zora Link a lot, but those rooms were just the hud area to choose your tunnel, and a couple rooms that were for the ice arrow mechanics. Like, they somehow fixed the Iron Boots problem of OoT with decent underwater controls... but not a lot of decent underwater to use it with.

i barely remember most water levels in videogames. Kirby's epic yarn water levels? I can tell you what happens in that game; some crazy ass shit! Kirby and Prince Fluff turn into tiny submarines underwater and they go about the same speed on land as in water. And you got the beach world with the level with the shifting water levels, the one with the dolphin and you just tear through enemies and also JUGGLE BALLS! THATS AWESOME! And the part where you're getting chased by a big ass anglerfish god I love that game :)

water level concepts: instead of having oxygen you have a pressure meter where you cant go up to fast or you get a cramp and start falling deeper and the area is super polluted at the top but the deeper you go despite your sight being more and more limited you see more enemies more passive npcs and at the bottom your at the hydrothermal vents these have yeti crabs that are hostile but are blind and will go to sounds and stuff and will attack you if you get to close dealing heavy damage you also have vampire squid that when you get close they blind you with green ink making your character immobile for a short time as they run away but attack them and they'll take up their spikey cape of teeth and latch on to your head and you have to mash the A button to get the squid off and while your being attacked the vampire squid will be healed by its dps so it deals 2 damage and has a dps of 8 so yeah also for the boss there you find this volcano that is quaking with glowing star fish and kelp on it and the surrounding yeti crabs are saying they cant eat from it so you attack it and it gets up out of the ground with these coral tubes for fingers and it fires a lot of pressure out of its coral tubes also when getting above it it will erupt causing you to overheat and take damage and you don't wanna swim up to fast or that pressure meter is gunna destroy you because you will fall into it and be erupted out with half of your total hp removed so if you have 10 hp it goes to five and if you have 20 it goes to 10 and you get it and you will also take some overheat damage and the pressure corals that shoot out compressed water will launch you into stuff like rocks and crap but it can also suck you in getting you stuck on it as the underwater volcano heats you up before shooting you into a rock or a yeti crab and in phase 2 it starts running away from you still attacking by launching stuff out of its volcano that will overheat you then you reach a brine lake where you fight it and in the end it falls into the brine lake dying and you get the coral pressurizer as the a weapon it launches targets back or sucks them in sucking a target in can allow you to get 5 hits on it max before either the target breaks free or you shoot it into a rock it essentially is a better gravity gun from half life being able to grab targets and shoot them into stuff and if you shoot your target at closer range the more impact damage it does this also depends on the surface your target hits the strongest being rocks steel and spikes you can also launch ragdolls and its really fun and you can use it to launch your self by shooting it at the ground making you essentially rocket jump but you take no damage and you get sent further flying also it include the other underwater physics included in the video end of idea.

These are really great points, and there’s one thing I’m very curious about and wanna see. Blind water Basically like black ink or oil patches spewed into the water in certain areas causing light to be obscured and almost act as that section in breath of the wild where that forest was super duper dark and then you accidentally ram yourself into the hands of a stone talus or something

Oh my days, you've improved so much since I started watching you when you released the Losing video

I fricking love your style and your ideas omg you've gained yourself a sub :)))

I absolutely agree with you on the propulsion mechanics. One of my favorite things to do in a pool is push off the wall/floor and see if I can make it to the other wall in one breath. So maybe alongside the controls you mentioned, there could also be a change to the ground pound underwater (at least for games that have it) where if you hit the ground, you can get much more distance than normal, and there’d also be an option to angle the launch.

Great video, you have some really good suggestions for improving underwater gameplay. Another couple of games that execute underwater gameplay well are Spyro 2 & 3 (specifically the originals), underwater movement in Spyro feels super fluid (pun intended), and levels like Seashell Shores feel great to traverse with the land and water movement mixed in

Love the animation + art style so good

And then there is Lego, which basically just said "Walk with Powerup, swim without it" and then they basically still say the same thing except for Pirates of the Carribean, where they added the breathing mechanic to limit your swimming. Also, yeah, Minecraft is cool, I loved their swimming mechanics except when I am hungry and I don't have food because I want to set up a farm. And finally, your art really did improve since I first seen you in 2017 and last saw you back in 2020! Really neat to see you up here.

Wanted to mention that Starfy on DS is a great underwater game that I highly recommend to underwater enthusiasts. 👍

9:39 I also heard Starfy is pretty good

I love this alot, the animation look SO good!

I think you should check out the swimming and treasure reef area in sky children of light. It has a lot of polished and also very simple underwater mechanics, fun to explore and its 3D. Theres bubbles that replenish your oxygen near the surface but as you dive deeper it gets darker and bigger underwater creatures lurking around in deep ruins. The game is centered around playing with friends, so you can hold eachothers hands and help eachothers as you explore, find treasures and play through the seasons quests. The game developers added this new underwater area and swimming mechanics in a recent season of the game and went all out on it.. sadly I dont really see a lot of people revisiting it. I personally really love it, swimming around and exploring this area with friends has been so much fun. Definitely one of the best underwater game experiences ive experienced.