"Culture that doesn't accept me" ???

@@Cryodrakon2it means their culture doesn’t accept them.

@@Cryodrakon2their culture either condemns or refuses to acknowledge some aspect of their identity: most often this is gender or sexuality, but it might also be disability, neurodivergence, mixed ancestry (some cultures are very hostile to people raised among them who are perceived as "impure"), or occupation (for example a country with a modern government that legally allows women to hold an engineering job, but the culture considers it offensive or immoral). Could also be a religious conviction, or lack thereof.

I can understand that, having grown up in a family with no emotional support or caring. And native culture where emotional expression is not promoted and feelings are repressed, Ive always felt the found family trope to be the most appealing. Especially ”dances with wolves” was impactful personally.

Sounds gay

Some of my absolute favorites! Glad to know others enjoy those as well :).

Absolutely. I very much agree. Thank you for the comment and for watching, I really appreciate it!

@@wrestlingwithwords of course!!!

I'm writing a story about found family betrayal

@@sarahcoutts4854 that sounds so genuinely heartwrenching (i mean that in the best way), good luck on your writing process!!

Thank you so much for watching! I really appreciate you!

OH YES! This is totally true. Also, thank you for watching and for your comment!

“Gee Luz, how come your author lets you have too positive family relationships”

For sure. And I think for some stories that works really well and is very compelling. Thank you for the comment and for watching!

I'm trying to write my own story and it actually includes found family while still having a good relationship with your blood family. Lol

Sounds boring af

@@graysanddragon to each their own

I totally hear you and would say these two competing themes can sometimes mesh together (having both), and can sometimes act as an interesting juxtaposition. If we think about YA audiences and the age group of the characters, it kinda makes sense that a found family is often seen as more desirable than your own. Teenage angst and the desire to be accepted amongst your peers is a very REAL social phenomenon. On the flip side, I do agree that you don't have to scorn your birth family for the sake of a found one. Neither of these tropes or themes are "better" than the other, they just tell a different story. Really great comment! Thank you for watching and for sharing your thoughts!

I think I agree that neither trope is inherently better. Just curious, do you have any thoughts on how media presents the typical family? I was talking with my mother and father in law and they mentioned how dads in media are frequently portrayed as bumbling fools, for example. Or how the last 3 or 4 Pixar movies (Luca, Turning Red, Elemental) have all had a very similar plotline of essentially "breaking away from my parent's expectations until they understand that I know best" So I find myself agreeing that the family is being given an unfair treatment in media-- which I find especially worrying in media for young people. I'm a young person myself, in case that's relevant. Additionally, I wonder if that portrayal of the family in media might be influencing the popularity of the found family trope.

That is why I can't stand the concept of found families because even the false advertising has some reality to it. Your family isn't embracing you as perfection incarnate? That's okay, find a bunch of people who will say you are perfect and they are now family.

@@thomasray I think this is most common in individualistic cultures, where family is less important than they are in communal cultures. Since the West is pretty individualistic, it makes sense that our media reflects that in stressing the importance of friends over family.

​@@ChildOfTheFlower I think you might want to word your statement. Found family as a concept can extend to the untimely death of family and thus finding a new one, orphanage, and other various concepts. Is it wrong to find solace in others when you have no one left? I very rarely see media portraying this strange 'abandoning family due to a minor/not at all as important reason' as 'Found family', at all. My mother has hundreds of books as an avid collector, and I've read/watched enough movies/seen enough comics to say that this is the first time I'm hearing a complaint like this.

Yep! I have't read Six of Crows, but when I was doing my research, this title came up over and over again.

​@@wrestlingwithwords yess, definitely read it. it's genuinely one of the best books i've ever read & does the found family trope beautifully among a vv diverse & fun cast :)

Thank you for watching and for your comment! I know I can't touch on every aspect of this trope and mostly wanted to approach it from a "writers"/"Creators" angle, as opposed to an audience member's perspective. Thank you again.

It's amazing how stories with found families can resonate so deeply. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for watching. I really appreciate you!

That's great to hear. This is probably one of those themes/tropes that is the most natural. Family of choice sometimes feels like a three-act structure or hero's journey because it is so inherent in its way of telling a compelling story. Thank you for watching and for sharing your experience! Please keep us updated on how your writing is going in the future!

same!! i really wanted them to look out for each other when their blood family couldn't.

Yep! And you wont stop seeing it either!

chrollo cares about his troupe and an important reason is he sees them as a part of himself so he breaks down when any of them dies. my mans was in a deep depression when *spoilers*... shalnark and kortopi died. i really hope they will get sweet sweet revenge from hisoka.

Yeah you're exactly right. Sometimes this is an intently story element, while other times it just sort of happens. I would have loved to go into more detail about some of the anime you mentioned, I just am not as familiar or confident in my recall. Berserk is one that comes to mind, however. Thank you for the other examples and for such a detailed response! I really appreciate it!

Yes, I think The Walking Dead really nails this theme. Also, considering how different each character is they can come together in a common cause, forming an unlikely family. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Same

Agreed! Thank you so much for watching and for sharing your perspective! I appreciate it!

Thank you for saying so and for watching. I really appreciate you!

I am so glad my video was helpful. I really appreciate you watching and subscribing. Best of luck and keep us updated on your writing!

Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm glad you find this helpful. Every time I finish a video, I'm excited to jump back into making another!

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You could actually say something of value while you're at it.

That is fantastic. The family of choice trope is one of those that I don't see going anywhere or people getting tired of. Good luck on your book, I'm glad you're writing it!

@wrestlingwithwords thank you so much. You're right about it not going anywhere. It's amazing to think that it's probably been around since the dawn of storytelling.

Exactly! And I think it is responsible for the evolution and growth of a huge number of genres. Just off my head, I think Harry Potter is so popular or at least grew in popularity because of this trope, even though it kinds only played a complementary role. Also, look at Lord of the Rings. The fandom behind it and the influence it played on the high fantasy adventure genre cannot be denied. You can really go down the rabbit hole on this one haha.

@wrestlingwithwords a deep and convoluted rabbit hole 😂. My favourite books and movies are rife with this trope. The Expanse, Firefly, The Matrix. A lot of Terry Pratchett's work. Stephen King, too. I could go on and on.

You hit a few of my own favorites already... I'm right there with you!

Thank you so much for your kind words! I'm so glad my videos are helpful!

Thank you for watching and for your comment! I think this trope is one of those we don't really notice until it is pointed out. Then we start to see it (kind of) everywhere.

Exactly. Thank you for your comment and for watching!

For sure! I think the big take away that even if a trope/story element is popular, it does not guarantee a good story. The part is not greater than whole. Thank you for the comment, I appreciate you!

Rightfully so, might I add.

That's because the characters are flat

Not everyone write well. The rise of skywalker failed because it put as much effort into the found family as it did the rest of the movie.

There are two main problems with this movie: 1. It's the end of a trilogy that was not consistent, specially with their characters. On episode VIII they almost didn't interact! So many changes between movies that make this trio feel not so united as Anakin and Obi-Wan or Luke, Han and Leia. 2. The conflict. Its origin has no sense, at least in the movie. "Somehow, Palpatine returned", Poe's words on the first half of the movie. And if only it was a surprise, a plot twist... But it wasn't! They spoiled it on the yellow credits! So... If the conflict does not stand on its own and there is no surprise... Where is the fun? The returned of a carismàtic secundary character is not enough no make a movie interesting. Good idea to being Lando back, but not enough. Characters were improvable, but plot was unetable. You enjoy the movie? Awesome. Great. U're lucky. Most people don't, so be glad you are able to enjoy it.

I am kinda kicking myself because I as going to reference Dragon Age but ended up cutting it due to time. Thank you for watching and for sharing your thoughts!

This is exactly how I felt!! DA2 I think was the best at connecting the characters together and making you feel like they actually care about each other not just because you’re there. I didn’t realize until now how much I gravitate toward the found family trope-it’s definitely why DA2 is my all time favorite game🥲

@@user-kj5es1ve2h I agree! DA2 gets a lot of negative criticism but I feel it also deserves compliments on the writing considering the constraints the game had. Everything felt so intimate in DA2, it was amazing.

I agree 100%! I was very into dragon age, specifically inquisition for years and I felt so close to each of the characters. It does truly feel like a family and I never found myself really having that same feeling with bg3's characters despite how much I love them. I've got 100s of hours in dragon age and have created lots of fan content for it, but I've still yet to finish bg3 and I haven't felt the desire to make anything for it. I wish everyone felt closer and more like a real family in bg3.

@@gingko_maple I never even got past act 1 in BG3 lol. It made me want the next dragon age even more, it’s great but it’s just not the same 😭

I'm so glad this was helpful! Sometimes finding our own system or rhyme is harder than actually writing. Thank you for watching and for your comment, I am glad you've emerged from your blockade!

Me too. Hell yes! Don’t thank me if I thank you than I have to thank you more and we’re in a non breakable circle of appreciation. ~Hahah.

I felt like I was doing my best to not just name a million different stories and tried to get (at least a little) specific about a handful. When I was working on the script for this and started doing some of the research it felt like this trope and theme came up OVER and OVER again. Also, yeah. Red Rising is one of the few trilogies where the story and narrative really mature with each installment. Thank you for watching and for your comment :).

That Hermione quote is so good... and so true! Thank you for the comment. I also have a lot to learn (we should never think otherwise), but I do love to share some of the things I've picked up and found to be effective and interesting when it comes to story craft. I really appreciate the detail you included. Thank you for watching!

So glad to hear this helped you. Thank you for watching and letting me know! Good luck with your novel, and keep us updated on its progress!

I'm glad we aligned on that! She is so entertaining and has such a unique personality (also, yes... she is also quite powerful too lol).

Really awesome breakdown. I absolutely love looking at archetypes, tropes, literary elements, and writing/storytelling components. People sometimes look at this as over analysis, or even taking the magic away from a creative endeavor but I think this is an infantile way to look at things. And that isn’t meant to be rude or even discouraging to other writers who think this way. Honestly, back in the early throes of my own writing career I thought of writing as this way. But when we start to look at stories this way, it helps us in being more effective at telling them and writing them. Thank you again for the comment and for watching!!

I think this is because women in general have better social dynamics compared to men, in both individual and societal levels. Like, when women go to a spa or cafe or "girls night out", it rarely really about the activity, but always about the community. It's about keeping touch and hanging out. Meanwhile men barely hangout unless it's a much bigger and longer event like going hiking or building something lmao. Now, there might be many reasons for this: That "hero's journey" alludes to this masculine ideal of being a lone-wolf and being able to handle everything the world throws at you alone. And for many men that is reality as nobody, and I do mean NOBODY is going to help them out. They typically have to really seek help and even fight for it sometimes. For women, that is rarely the case unless they are really down bad in the gutters, being homeless drug addict and such. Because random people will be more inclined and likely to help a random woman than a man (that's just society, bottom text). You could also say women will have build those support networks so they will always have help. There's less demand for women to be independent, but it's slowly changing. And a lot of people aren't actually that happy that "strong independent woman" means you need to actually be strong and independent, not just say it like a slogan on a mug. So you might be asking: Why are men not socializing like women are? Especially with other men? This is kinda wacky, but a big reason is that "men's clubs" are seen as "dangerous". Many argue and fear-monger that if men get together, it's a breeding ground for bigotry and future violence. If a man catches up with their mates every week at the bar, most people will condescendingly joke about them being incels or talking about boobs all day, maybe assume they are going around beating gay people or plotting the next insurrection. 99% of the time it's always something negative and you never heard these types of gatherings as being solely positive. There's always some kind of a whataboutism conspiracy that tries to keep men from coming together to form a community. Most assume the worst in men in general. For an understandable reason as men do commit most crimes. A man sitting by a bench near a playground raises red flags in people while a woman doing the same has people sleeping. There's a constant pressure on men to prove that they are indeed not monsters. And they are constantly tested and probed for this with ever-increasing aggression until there's a misunderstanding and people can pile up and destroy you. "We beat the bad guy" everyone cheers... Mix-in queer-baiting where men cannot show any kind of close connection to another man without being called "gay" by conservatives and progressives alike... In fact, I think progressives do it far more to the point they often do it even with brothers, ugh... And we also cannot completely ignore that a lot of women also find that "hero's journey" attractive in a man (it's really more about masculinity so it can even be what you'd want from a butch). But no woman would admit that, because why would you, you know? Makes you look bad and shows that women set and enable toxic standards just like men do with women... That's too polarizing for most people to even think about. Yeah, there are bunch of micro-aggressions that keep men from wanting to socialize like women do. The Hero's journey isn't really an ideal, more than it's relatable. That it's just something you must go through as a man because you are not loved unconditionally and you will probably end up alone without someone seeing the worth in you. The ending of the Hero's journey is the beginning, that now you as a man have hopefully proved yourself to everyone that you are indeed worthy of a family and community. It is a tragedy that ends with an undecided stubborn hope.

DURRRRR MAN BAAADDD WAHMEN GOOOOODDDD

This is ironic because men are more lonely on average than they’ve ever been. They’re less likely than women to band together, especially for activities. Unfortunately, men typically can relate to the hero’s journey more. It’s why veterans, who many Americans would call hero’s, tend to suffer in silence. It’s why men now have an increasingly high rate of “game ending.” Can a lot of men do better to fix their lives? Sure. Is this endemic? Yes.

I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thank you for watching!

I’m so glad to hear this was helpful! Thank you for the comment!

Thank you for deciding to watch! And that's awesome to hear. I think Found Families and Heist plots are such a powerful combo. Keep us posted on how the progress is going!

@@wrestlingwithwords I definitely will man

My mind went straight to Six of Crows with your description haha

@@SigridStorjern Six of Crows and Guardians of the Galaxy were my two biggest inspirations 🤌

Don't be discouraged. 5 rejections isn't as great as it feels. Without reading your story or query letter, it might not be the fact that it's the content of your manuscript, but might just be the way your QL is written. Keep trying. Keep submitting, and analyze what is working and what isn't!

Thank you so much for your kind words!

Not a bad thing! We all have our own obsessions and fingerprints that make our stories ours!

Yes! Also true! Thank you for the comment.

@wrestlingwithwords absolutely, thought of that before you actually brought up role-playing games in the video. Love your stuff!

I really appreciate you saying so! A few people have also brought up D&D, so you are in familiar company.

Ahhh, sorry! There are a lot of good stories that I probably didn't bring up... I can't name them all! :)

Glad you liked it!

Thank you for watching and for saying so!

Really interesting! Thank you for sharing some information about your projects. I think this goes to show the variety of the family of choice. Thank you for watching!

Oh boy have you opened a can of worms. In order of appearance: Disco Elysium, Mass Effect, Baulders Gate 3. All three I HIGHLY recommend. Disco Elysium is my favorite game of all time though, it's writing is unmatched. I will do a video on this eventually.

*Me:* _(with a dawning realization of absolute _*_horror_*_ towards my Ace/Aro robot space-laser dinosaur fanfic)_

All amazing stories/films. Good thing I mentioned/alluded to a few!

There is a pang or even a melancholic feeling for sure in this trope. Thank you for your comment and for watching :).

Hopefully the algorithm can do its thing 😅😮‍💨! Thank you for watching!!

Hitting all the highlights! Thanks for watching, I really appreciate it!

@@wrestlingwithwords Np man can’t wait to dive into ur world building vid next, appreciate everything ur doing here

Awesome! I am planning on getting some more out soon. Thank you again for watching, it means a ton.

The true test of modern taste 😂… but in all seriousness, I am glad that people have 1 seen it and 2 love it as much as I do because I plan on referencing it in a lot more videos!

That can be tough. Perhaps you can work on those other books in other ways (editing, submissions...) while you start your third.

Yeah, such a good quote. If I've learned anything from making this video and putting it out there, there have been so many missed opportunities with great quotes that sum up this concept. Thank you for watching and for your comment!

Hahaha this is the correct question… if they did shave their heads, that is commitment…

Gonna bet half of 'em are ex-military or motorheads.

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It’s funny, I’ve not seen that yet. I’ll have to watch it and see what you mean.

That is a perfect example of what not to do!

Exactly. In part, this is a process we will all go through and can relate to. There are a ton of nuances that go into this process, making the magnitude of stories we can tell nearly unlimited!

What a time to be alive! Haha, thanks for watching :).

It's the Plato effect.

Trying to just put out the best and most useful content I can make :)

I bet! Thank you for watching and for your comment!

The "reunion" trope is a powerful one too and sometimes can outshine the "family of choice" but I think there isn't enough variation in it. I'm not wed to the idea that Found Family is the "best", but I think it might be one of the most compelling when it comes to character dynamics in a story. A reunion-type trope seems to be linear and has a clear conclusion. I'm not too sure what you mean by sweet spot or sweetest, but this is a very compelling device to make the audience invested in the characters and in what these characters are doing (plot-wise). I do appreciate the comment and for you sharing your thoughts and perspective! Thank you for watching!

@@wrestlingwithwords thank you!

That could be really interesting!

I think you're talking about your own personal experience and belief (and as a preface, there isn't anything wrong with that). However, we are mostly talking about fiction and characters that we are creating. And even outside of that, friends can very much feel more like family than your actual family. This is a very human experience but does not have to be one that you personally find compelling, interesting, or believable. But as a literary device, it is quite effective! Thank you for your comment and perspective, and for watching!

@@wrestlingwithwords I think you chose a very good name for your KZfaq channel.

Thank you for saying so!

Hahahaha That would have been awful of me. Rest assured, no spoilers here.

He of Rivia!! 🙃

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True. That is a great example too.

That is another aspect that is really interesting. Although “forced family” sounds to me like blood family-or an actual family. Although coworkers might seem like a forced family, I think that is still a family of choice-the coworkers don’t have to become friends, but they can choose to be. Either way, it’s still a good point! Thank you for watching and your comment!

I agree that The Walking Dead is a really good example of this. I think too, this is kinda the point of TWD. However, I was not trying to a This or That between TWD and The Last of Us. The Last of Us just offered a really good example of two characters who are going through a redemption arc/healing, but doing something worse for the sake of that relationship. Thanks for the detailed response! These are all good points!

I think the only good things in TLOU (the game) are things they directly lifted from Léon: The Professional, pretty much the entire relationship between Joel and Ellie comes from there, and Children of Men, pretty much the entire plot comes from there.

@benjamindeharo314 I agree that TLOU takes a lot from Leon The Professional, and that it's overall very generic and cliché. Some would say that it is a common trope and that no story is really new, but there are still stories that are relatively fresh. Léon: The Professional for instance, has a nuanced relationship between an innocent criminal (an interesting contradiction) stuck into childhood and a child that was thrown into adulthood. A mix between a father-daughter relationship, a forbidden love story, a coming of age story for Mathilda AND Léon (because he's actually the child in their relationship), on top of an initiation story. Léon's redemption arc intertwined beautifully with Mathilda's revenge too. How many movies, tv shows, or games can you name that have this ? TLOU on the other hand is just a basic father-daughter relationship like it's been done a billion times (and in its execution, it takes a lot from Léon). When something is that common, it loses its artistic qualities IMO.

I don't think episode 3 deserves any awards, honestly. Is it really stunning and brave to show a gay couple in 2023 ? The L Word aired for the first time in 2004, The Last of Us is 20 years late for that, and The L Word has a much better representation of the lgbt community while being better written. Blue Is the Warmest Color from 2013 is also a better gay love story. Episode 3 is a cheap Brokeback Mountain, and the strawberry scene is cringe.

@@naturerelaxingmusic4961 I don’t think it has to do entirely with representation but instead the acting, writing, and emotional weight of the episode. In a 40-60 min episode there was so much emotional weight and immersion to their love story.

They are one of the best examples!

I totally get where you're coming from. And what a wonderful comparison to colors. Thank you for sharing and for watching.

Missed opportunity to include this quote.... But yeah!

"And give us this day our Daily Bread..."

Yes, I am sure this plays a huge part in that as well!

ALSO TRUE! Missed opportunity 😭

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I really appreciate this! I guess I've got to trust the process. Thank you for watching :).

Missed opportunity! Ice Age is a good example of this trope too.

OH! A great example! Yes to Cowboy Bebop.

@@wrestlingwithwords thank you, thank you!! ive been obsessively watching it lately, so it came to mind quickly. great video btw! thanks for all the advice

@@zuzuzuzuzuz thank you for saying so! It’s a series I’ve been meaning to rewatch again!

Totally! I think BG3 is one of the best, modern, examples of this trope in video games. What is also powerful is the choice, like you said. You can literally kill them all (lol) or make them your family! Thank you for your comment and for watching :).