I think every archetype is someone's most hated archetype

The Top Three Most Despicable Characters, in every game: 1. The character everyone plays 2. The character that beats my character 3. The character I suck at fighting

I think you missed one from the dark days of fighting game design. The 'three utterly broken moves' and 'everything else is hot garbage' character apparently designed with the mindset that they balance each other out because there's no way players will just only ever use those moves.

The worse archetypes are unlockable final bosses. When youre fighting them they are fast. Their frames are better. Their dmg us better. Then you unlock em AND .....they are utter trash

Happy Chaos is the one I think of for "zoner that can rush down better than rushdown characters"

I think for me my least favorites are characters that are purposefully weaker overall because they're given gimmicky "situational" tools that don't actually compensate for the weakness like 90% of the time (FANG and Twelve). It feels like when a character is designed like that like they don't even want you to play those characters. Edit: SFV launch FANG

Another great example of number 2 is Kabal from Mortal Kombat 9. That guy could jump back instant-air gas blast you all day long, and then you have his full screen dash that leads into a combo that restands you into his insane block pressure that you almost never can find a moment to get out of unless the Kabal player messes up the dash cancelling execution.

I remember when Batgirl completely flipped the Injustice 1 meta on its head by being an incredibly strong punisher of zoning whilst having a pretty nutty vortex and some strong meterless damage.

My pet peeve is that VIolent Ken never looks the way he does in the promotional artwork

I feel like grapplers and zoners are the most hated in general; they force you to play a completely different style of play, on top of being very tough for new players to deal with. For Zoners they can keep you at bay if you have no concept of proper defense and approach options yet, whereas with Grapplers they punish mistakes VERY harshly and while many grapplers fall off in higher level play that doesn't really apply to people still learning the fundamentals and matchups.

One thing I notice in ALL of John Crofts videos is that he's ALWAYS smiling! Dude absolutely loves talking about fighting games! I love it!

I don't mind 2D characters in Tekken. I do mind that they're so overpowered though. I think Eliza is a pretty good balance between 2D and 3D. I mean sure she's a Tekken character but she's definitely meant to be a "2D character beta test" waaay back in Tekken Revo.

Grapplers with better speed and projectiles than other less gifted characters *cough* *cough* Z Broly *cough*

Akuma is a straight menace, he arguably counts in some form for every section you talked about. Gotta love him.

The ones I most hate are the setup characters who are too good at setting up. As the setplay type basically wins all day once the setup is in, characters who play that way shouldn't be difficult to stuff, but sometimes, one is.

The one that I hate the most is the one that beats me up, so all of them

Armor abusers are my biggest issue. Things like kouma from melty blood where they can just respond to any attempt to fight back with more armored moves.

The annoying thing about Akuma in Tekken is that they totally could have removed his fireball and it would be in character for him. (Totally flexing on them by not even using some of his moves)

Adding to what is said about 3S Akuma: Everyone can only choose 1 of 3 supers to do while he gets that and has 2 additional supers (Raging demon and ddd+pp) and has no access to EX special moves.

My most hated archetype is learning to fight a player who has used one specific archetype character, and the moment you finally beat their main, they pull out their hidden secondary they never told you about and sends you straight to the shadow realm

I think some of the least fun to fight characters are the setup characters (Jack-O, Gargos, etc.). You make a mistake at the start of the round and then you're covered in servants unable to press anything unless you know the character in and out. Second only anime/Netherrealm zoners.

low HP with a ton of tools tend to be some of my favorite characters but i can definitely see why everybody hates fighting them bc they can be kinda busted sometimes

I never played strive but in +r chip isn't impossible to zone, you can just use your air attacks because of the wealth of tools in neutral

I don't necessarily hate a specific archetype. I have more hate towards bad balance, and specific type of moves in different combinations.

Another archetype is the heavy mixup characters after one knockdown and it feels like you're in 50/50 land forever until you guess right. Like R. Mika, and Zangief.

I think you missed the mark on Zoners that can rush down better than normal rushdown. If you see Ferry in Granblue or Dhalsim in Sf5 they zone an when they get their 1 touch they immediately rush down an go for crazy mix. With their busted projectiles

I can definitely agree with the "this character in the best in the game, except if you sneeze on them they die" archetype being one of the most frustrating. Even if they are relatively well balanced, it often feels like I have to account for 10 things they could do at any given moment while they generally only have to account for like 3-4. It is why I'm super interested how Akuma turns out in SF6, since in the closed betas, everyone had the exact same health value, so they would actually have to balance his kit around the tools he has and not around his health.

It feels like Akuma was meant for Street FIghter X Tekken in a game where everyone else's moveset and mechanics was modified to deal with it.

Him talking about super powerful but low HP characters and not talking about Phoenix in UMVC3 stuns me.

My least favorite archetype is whatever archetype I lost too. Even if it's the same one I'm playing they're playing it unfairly compared to me.

You forgot all about Phoenix from UMVC3. She’s literally one touch BUT that means you’re also one touch if she opens you up.

I hate characters that overly depend on meter/installs. The kind that’s either “I have meter so it’s my turn” or “I don’t have meter so I’m losing” It makes situations feel a lot less dynamic because there isn’t much you can to do turn around a situation in your control. It takes away a lot of the risk/reward of your options since you just have to wait a lot of times.

Okay but Haohmaru was sick in Soul Cal 6 though

Bro, that mug is fire. A fine addition to my collection thank you

Yo JM! Love the content as always man. Would love to see some hoodies in the merch line up instead of just T-shirts, I dont know the logistics regarding that, but I'd for sure cop a hoodie. Much love

AHHHH! I'm 8 days late and was still able to get my hands on that sweet sweet data mug! I really enjoy your positivity and its gotten me out of my shell to try online and fight actual people. I keep telling myself, the first round is just data! Let's goooooo!

Neatherrealm zoners, all of them. Also in For Honor with the recent changes to dodges, anyone with easy access to unblockables. You have to either dodge them or parry them, you go for the dodge, they feint their unblockable to a guard break and get a free heavy or a bash into heavy, you go for the parry and they feint and parry you, bash you, or dodge attack and your back into the mixer.

I’ve never been able to wrap my head around charge characters. I just can’t seem to comprehend holding a button or direction while also doing other stuff on the controller, which sucks because some of my favorite fighting game characters is a charge character (big band) and I just can’t seem to get good as him.

I've seen a multitude of people harshly criticize 2D characters in 3D games, but they only cite Akuma and Geese as examples. How do those individuals feel about Mai Shiranui in DOA5 (and 6 alongside Kula Diamond) and/or Haohmaru in SC6? I never hear much about them. (I personally don't think Kula fits in DOA, but that's my only criticism there.)

for me it’s low health but high damage characters/option characters because there’s always a big body who sucks but then this archetype get all the advantages but none of the drawbacks

11:49 I didn’t remember Rufus having such sumptuous jiggle physics

I would continue on your guest characters in Tekken thing by adding that I think the real issue is that any character that is "true to their origional game" in a way that breaks the rules of the game tend to cause issues. Sometimes it is cool! Other times you get Akuma in Tekken or for the Smashies in the audience they deal with that... a lot... the examples are all over the place. In general rule breaking characters are something else.

my most hated archtype is sagat

Also I'm a Axl Main, my brother mains Chipp he's not good enough to beat me yet so when he tries to go in the air I try to hit him with a bomber or two, and he tends to chill on the jump ins

Im so glad I got my order in! I usually never see these kinds of things in time.

Absolutely love the thumbnail. It’s artistic brilliance.

Alex's theme got me over here grooving. I love that version!

That is actually a really nice mug.. tempting

I want to play the most untouchable fun killing god forsaken zoner to ever exist. I want to be a VILLAIN, and always be respectful to my opponents, so they get emotional whiplash.

Probably the Comeback mechanic or Super the character kind of deal, which have the goal of maybe chipping 25% of your health while you dumpster them to reversal threshold, to then hit one confirm from a neutral interaction to a will it kill clip.

You got a chuckle out of me with your thumbnail

Cool background at the start

“Boss” characters for me. Y’know you’re Hilda, Susanoo, Akuma, Devil and so on

The clip of Chipp get OHKOd by CH Ram super because of Gamma Blade will always be my favorite strive clip

My least favorite archetype is my opponent’s character

I got to mention Phoenix from MvC3. She was basically Storm + Spiral from MvC2: rushdown, zoning, chip damage, teleports, big super, infinites, etc. but then throw in healing.

I think the worst archetype is the one where my opponent outplays me. Like, why should I be punished for not blocking?!?!?!?!

Speaking of divekick, I find it funny that they gave a "divekick" to Axl, a Zoner, in older Guilty Gear games.

@jmcrofts I 100% agree with what characters u picked!

The big wrestler guy that has lots of grappling moves (Zangief, Goro, Potemkin.) It's like, I have to keep my distance if I don't want to get grabbed but if I try not to get too close then there's less combo opportunities for me.

For Smash fans it's swordfighters since they take up less than 5% of Ultimate's roster. XD Also *_HOW HAS STORM NOT BEEN BANNED FROM COMPETITIVE MVC2 YET?!_*

Speaking of characters that feel out of place like 2d in 3d games, in doa 5 we had 4 characters from virtua fighters and man, that was odd,, they felt very strange to play against or with, even the sound was awkward

And to add on your akuma point, what happens when you give him all his strength, take away the weakness of low health and put him in a another game…. You have top 3 character in Tekken 7 for the last 5 years🤣🤣🤣

Rushdowns that are too good at mixing you up and/or all off his mix ups are non commital making it so once they get in which they easily do,they stay in really easy while constantly making you guess,making it feel like you are playing against a rushdown with the reward of a grappler

Love how you showed 3rd strike Akuma and not 2nd impact akuma where he is completely out of control!

for me it's characters that are playing a completely different game, and overpowered dlc that gets special treatment

I'ma get one of those mugs. Luv u jm

another character that is impossible to zone is Smoke in MK9. he has an anti-projectile move much like nightwolf's except smoke's is faster, strongest AND it can be mantained, so you don't even have to react, also you can combo off of it. he also has a teleport punch similar to scorpion's but much much faster plus his move speed is very high. it almost seems like he was specifically designed to counter reptile.

you know... 2d in 3d could also easily be turned into "characters that don't follow the rules of the core game" i.e characters with air dashes in games almost entirely without them, or characters that can roll or dash past projectiles in games where thats not normally possible except by said characters. heck i think at one point where 3d in 2d was a thing?

Im surprised u didn't mention smoke from mk9. He by far is the one character you cant spam on. He has moves dedicated towards spammers like his perry, and in my opinion the best Teleport in the game that comes out so quick and can follow u and hit you anywhere on screen twice and if you burn a meter can hit u 3 times.

I love the glass cannons characters even if 1/2 the time they're broken.

I played against an Akuma pretty recently in Tekken 7 and they just played him really slow and kept their guard up, and essentially used him as a zoner. We got so close to running the timer out multiple times. Would not try to play against again tbh

The mug is nice!

Mine's projectile characters, as in characters with projectile normals who's game plan is just shooting, like happy chaos, or Mina or that archer from GBFVS

Love it, got my boy Zero in the divine stance

If there's one thing I hate in fighting games it's long range characters, short range characters, and medium range characters.

Talking about zoner nullifiers, what about spinal? I think he is the prime example

When you talked about zoners that rush down my smash brain went Melee fox Ult rob, pac man, Olimar, etc.

Really wanted that mug, too bad there's no shipping to my country

A freind of mine hated grapplers. Im a glass cannon main. He couldn't figure out how to get away after "corner and throw".

Ok that serious a dope mug

My most hated archetype also happens to be the one I play in most games, the puppet character. My first memory of fighting games was being decimated by these 2v1 cheaters and I thought it was so bullshit that I decided to play them myself. Lo and behold I discovered that I like cheating. I've gotten better at fighting these types of character due to my experience with them but in most games they tend to have some ridiculous offensive sequences that are extremely hard to deal with and even harder to lab if you don't play them(except in gg +r, why don't more game include replay takeover???). Still nothing gets me as excited to gang up on some poor unsuspecting player with my imaginary buddies. Some of the characters I play include Zato/Eddie from Guilty Gear, Shadow Labrys from Persona, Pom from Them's Fightin' Herds, Mario from Melty blood and more! They all have grade A bullshit when the right opportunity presents itself. Carl Clover looks really cool too so I might try him whenever I get into BlazBlue.

Zoners that also have a strong reversal move that cancels out all your effort to close the distance Yes I mean JP specifically

"characters that negate zoning" Basically the entirety of street fighter V

Instead of no 2d characters in Tekken 8 they'll just put GG AC+R Slayer in not even modeled just the sprite

Whatever Deathstroke and Deadshot are in Injustice, just seeing Deadshot gameplay made me not wanna touch the sequel with a 10ft stick

I don't own a mug, but I might pick this to be my main mug ! 😂

I struggle vs characters with amazing frame data and little to no lag on wiffed moves,

Character's that get shadow clones Yang, and Zero. Either you eat a huge combo or you block forever in some cases, taking a bunch of chip in the process even when you've guessed properly.

My most hated archetype is constant Armor characters like hulk, Colossus and Mech Zangief. It's like they are annihilating your efforts to win

Bought my mug as soon as it came on screen lol.

Mix-up characters who are safe on block, with minimal startup, maximum priority and can do it from multiple starting points. Any game that's online you end up having to predict people like Scorpion who have chain combo's from their teleport and you just end up waiting - and half the time they can meter burn to make it safe but also punish anyone who dared sit there and block it twice. Phoenix from UMVC3 has this, as did wesker and vergil *a bit*. When you're online mix-ups, even in a game with a dedicated block button, are running late, so now someone can just spam it infinitely and while not perfectly safe, they are going to get lucky enough times. Zero is like this too, who is much easier to handle offline. Game developers love to make these characters because it's flash, but there's so many of them who just have so much advantage those characters now HAVE to use it as part of their repertoire, and online games can't handle this. Dive kick characters get this, especially in Akuma in third strike since he can demon flip and cause confusion in a game where perfect overhead is hard to achieve and has a bunch of rules. Alex gets something like that too. A lot of these can be beaten, but in an online environment they go from "punishable" to "hard to punish" and it makes all the difference. Now you have to adjust for the threat - if these moves simply didn't have priority it'd be one thing, but often you can't anti-air or counter, you just have to block... and often times they are safe on block, or their punish window is small enough that being online makes that far more difficult. That's really the only thing that annoys me in any game, every other archetype I can handle because when something is overpowered, ok sure, it's overpowered. But when someone goes from "good" to "near safe" online it starts a lot of fights. I don't know how many times I started predicting someone's move and crushed this, to my satisfaction, to see that person just lose their mind bitterly as they realize the folly of having learned it - or when they go to use it offline they get wickedly punished. It's not just bad for people who have to go against it, but it's poisoning the well for people trying to learn online. You give people a gimmick that's just magic, their skill atrophies. So it really bothers me because even when you beat it soundly, players never know "why" and now their skillset is built on a tool that's wildly less effective offline. It's a shame.

Day 1 of asking JMCrofts to play Killer Instinct as Gargos and eat his own minions! Minion-based characters (like puppets that behave independently of the player character) are always a nightmare to play against! I was surprised not to see Jack-o or Nappa in the video!

This thumbnail is goated

Boy oh boy do I love the designated top-tier. That's the character intended by the developers to be good that suppresses other characters and doesn't have any counter pick.

As an Akuma and Chipp main I love low hp being the only downside

I see Zero, I click. Simple.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of characters that bend the rules of the game to make them more faithful. I definitely come more from Smash, I know we're not well liked in the FGC, bear with me. But in Smash, combos don't really exist. Most characters if they have combos, it's usually a 2-3 hit true combo, or something that leads to a kill setup/edge guard. Some characters get ladder combos but at least they need platforms to do so. Using platforms in a "platform fighter." So it's really strange to see characters like Bayonetta come in and get very long combos that lead to death. Or Ryu and Ken, that are allowed to cancel thier normals into specials and have auto turn around. Auto turn around in Smash literally eliminates the opponent's defensive options for no reason. Or Kazuya, that has so many infinites it's a wonder how he's still tournament legal. Or Steve, that's allowed to just build walls.

This man works fast

For Akuma, is it part of lore? Coz although the Dark Hadou makes him powerful, it also destroys his body (a high price to pay for such power)?