The Ninth Gate (1999): What Happened to the Ceniza Brothers?

The Ninth Gate (1999): What Happened to the Ceniza Brothers? | Re-upload

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2 жыл бұрын

The Ceniza Brothers mysteriously disappeared at the end of the film. In this video, we examine theories based on the film and its script.
The Ninth Gate (1999) was co-written, produced, and directed by Roman Polanski and starred Johnny Depp as Dean Corso. The film is loosely based upon Arturo Pérez-Reverte's 1993 novel The Club Dumas.
Originally published June 4, 2020. This is a re-upload to address restrictions.
Disclaimer: This is an analysis that explores the many concepts of filmmaking for the purposes of study, research, and commentary created under the allowances of "fair use".

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@CineG 2 жыл бұрын

This part of the "January Re-upload". It's an older video of the channel with too many long clips. It's been re-tooled with clips less than 9 seconds and still images to avoid restrictions. Thanks for watching and support fair use.

@mitchellwooldridge5118 Жыл бұрын

My theory: The Ceniza brothers were angels (good ones). They intentionally sold their copy to Balkan with the false engraving knowing it would ultimately lead to his doom - as well as the dooms of everyone else associated with the various copies (self-proclaimed satanists). The fall of the scaffolding was a warning to Korso not to pursue the book or engravings any further. If he was as smart and learned as he appeared, he would've made the connection of the brothers' warning and the engraving showing the arrow being shot from the heavens. As it turns out, he did make the connection later but chose to continue his mission anyway, ignoring the warning. As for the ending, I think the brothers were slain/vanquished/sent back to Heaven by "The Woman" (assuming she was either the devil or a fallen angel/demon). She was the one who told Korso where to find the final (real) engraving at the end, probably after she figured it out (somehow) and gone there to deal with the brothers. She could've given the engraving to Korso herself, I guess, but that wasn't her M.O. throughout the film. Plus, I think it was necessary for him to find it himself in order for the ninth gate prophecy to be fulfilled.

@Amleth89 Жыл бұрын

Great insight, I agree. The woman can´t give the last engraving because to be a moral decision Corso needs to willingly follow the path.

@markinri1877 Жыл бұрын

Well thought out interpretation. Agree

@juripfeifer7970 9 ай бұрын

Well they sold it to Mrs Telfer, not Balkan. He bought it from Telfer. Otherwise id agree with ur theory but it has a tiny mistake in it.

@mitchellwooldridge5118 9 ай бұрын

@juripfeifer7970 good point - my mistake. Although, I think the "chain of doom" theory still holds up regardless, as she was the ringleader of the satanic cult... And she's killed by Balkan at the end anyway, leading to the same outcome.

@juripfeifer7970 9 ай бұрын

@@mitchellwooldridge5118 Well on of my theorys is that Corso is presented as the demonic dragon creature thats shown on in the last engraving. Like he was destined to return to the Kingdom of Shadows. Cause on the engraving the Girl is "riding" the dragon creature with a book in her hands in front of the burning castle, just like she rid corso in front of it later. Even hes constant smoking and breathing it out through his nose is a bit a hint in my opinion. Ur thoughts on that?

@edcawte2979 Жыл бұрын

I didn't realise it was the same actor playing both young and older twins. My theory is they know the secret of the ninth gate, they actually make themselves younger every few decades and they are hiding in plain sight as book sellers and repairmen.

@joejones9520 11 ай бұрын

and they are the only reason he found the real engraving, if they hadnt tipped over the bookcase he wouldve never found it, it's like they handed it to him while appearing indifferent.

@j.j.o.o.755 2 жыл бұрын

Hear the buzzing of a fly once Corso is trying to guess the engraving LCF? It´s the Lord of Flies!!! Beelzebub!!!

@k.o.f.records1874 2 жыл бұрын

it's actually "baal zvuv" in hebrew it means "lord of the flies"

@stariswartorn Жыл бұрын

This is one of the all time greatest movies ive ever seen. It reminds me alot of Chris Nolans "The Prestige", where the events happening offscreen that you dont see are more important than what youre actually watching. Youre left to connect some dots on your own.

@SAMEntalhealth Жыл бұрын

Only thing that kinda sucked was the ending

@joejones9520 Жыл бұрын

@@SAMEntalhealth Over time Ive realized it was the only possible ending that would not ruin the movie because anything concrete wouldve killed the mystery.

@JsscRchlDrsy 11 ай бұрын

@@joejones9520 yes I agree. How do you make a concrete ending to a movie like this? Anything concrete would not have worked no matter what the makers tried.

@RakibHasan-hs1me 5 ай бұрын

I was so pissed when I watched it for the first time.

@laurentquintana262 2 жыл бұрын

There are 2 things I noticed the last time I saw the film, one very funny where you see hanging on the wall of a posh Parisian building a huge Shell sign (obviously another need to make one of the film's sponsors appear), it's quite improbable and funny. The other thing is the fact that in the Ceniza brothers you can clearly hear the sound of a fly just as the name Lucifer is spoken. ( Belzebuth literally means his majesty of flies). I liked this wink in the film. This film is so rich.

@invisibot6 10 ай бұрын

The shell sign suggests sun worship. Appears once more at the end when he pumps gas.

@juripfeifer7970 9 ай бұрын

Well u can hear the fly even before after he enters the Book Store.

@TheChrisPutnam 3 ай бұрын

@@invisibot6 - The shell suggests venus - the morning star - lucifer

@Americansikkunt 13 күн бұрын

@@invisibot6how does a shell symbolize sun worship? I’m not doubting, just very curious.

@dollofshadows1703 10 ай бұрын

The Ninth Gate's been my favorite film for years, and I've never even known, or considered some of these things. I never liked the Ceniza brothers, because of that Doppelganger dynamic they had. But it makes a lot more sense now... I've personally thought the Ceniza brothers weren't necessarily there to help Corso, but that it's all the other stuff the girl is doing that ultimately leads him to open that door. (like finding the ninth engraving) I understood it to be that they knew the secret of the Ninth Gate, but they took precaution enough that neither someone like him, nor Balkan, would ever be able to make it work. (hence the counterfeit page) And that either he'd be killed when he tried it, or be met with catastrophe along the way. And perhaps the Devil was finally able to overcome their efforts...

@duantorruellas716 Жыл бұрын

At 5:22 of your video cineG , there is an engraving of the angel with the bow. At the top of that page there is a Roman numeral 3 or 111. The same 111 green eyes marked him with on the forehead in blood. Now I see how important that mark was because it was the last engraving.

@marksimpson2321 3 ай бұрын

This was the first film I saw on DVD and I still love it. Props to you for your interest , engagement and depth going into this odd yet engaging film.

@DrLeroyGreen 2 жыл бұрын

The Ceniza Brothers were not dead or ghosts. They were Angels. Mustached Angels. They almost killed him with the scaffolding. Since that failed AND he bravely returns, Corzo proves worthy to receive the missing page.

@watermelonlalala Жыл бұрын

They were the most alive people in the movie. Everyone else was half dead.

@Begunova Жыл бұрын

Bravely returns? He got the clue to come back to their shop directly from the Girl. She, whatever she might be, wanted him to get that last engraving. Who else did he have to fear, btw, with Balkan dead and all true Lucifer's engravings with him?.. He only had to walk down this road, to the end, that's all.

@watermelonlalala Жыл бұрын

@@Begunova What difference did it make if there were three chimneys or some other number in the engraving? Or in what hand the keys were held?

@pookiesis1465 Жыл бұрын

I likened them to Angels working for god who is working hand in hand with the devil to fulfill the prophesy of the apocalypse. Kinda like in the book of Job,god and the devil are casually talking. I saw them as sorta” We are giving you the warnings so that you can’t come back and dispute it later,do you want to proceed?” Like they were working on god’s side,and the woman was working on the devil,s side. The engravings had a mustachioed angel pointing an arrow down from above ,and in most of those old school type of drawings,up is heaven,down is hell

@gemgen1016 Жыл бұрын

@@pookiesis1465 haha your first line reminds me of the tv show Good Omens. I LOVE your theory so you might like this show as well. Great conclusion not many point to but great when a smart person does or at least out of box thinker with creative flare for solving mysteries.

@SuperCiacho0 8 ай бұрын

Hi, yesterday i watched "The ninth gate" again. Its very famous film in Poland when i come from. In this movie there is always something to discover. Your interpretation is disturbing. I will continue to watch the rest of playlist. Great job. Thank You!

@LordofDarknessX 2 жыл бұрын

Your break-down of this scene is very good.

@negano5654 2 жыл бұрын

The engraving of the angel with mustache clears makes it seems there angels of death or angels that work for the devil. Why would they know so much about The Ninth Gate if they weren't angels or undead people you couldn't see ?

@pookiesis1465 Жыл бұрын

@joesdilemma1949 2 жыл бұрын

Amazing observation! Holy cow! This is seriously amazing!

@danyfromcta 5 ай бұрын

If this could be True, IT could be a revelation...😅

@Begunova Жыл бұрын

In the original book the author plays with the meaning of the surname 'Ceniza' (= ashes), connecting it with what probably awaited the villain who used the engraving forged by them (flames of Hell, or the 'certain kind' of Devil). Here the director had paved Corso's way to the Ninth gates from the very beginning, they also had guided him, just like others. Interesting, thamks!

@alessiocataldi2434 Жыл бұрын

Cenizas are the only ones who smiles cheerishfully in the movie: they feel safe knowing the book is harmless after forging a fake 9th-ritual page. But they didn't destroy the original 9th-ritual page, and instead hidden it carelessly. This made me examine another theory: that both two aren't angels, but instead the devil's gatekeepers for hell, and the hidden paper is one kind of test. When they smile so happy in 4:44, it's something like they're thinking "here's another unexpert sheep, oblivious of what is going to do" OR "here's another candidate for trespassing the door to Hell" (like presumably did of Liana Telfer too years prior)

@danyfromcta 5 ай бұрын

You are so True about IT... and the girl knew IT;)

@gerrymanrique9395 10 ай бұрын

The second time Depp returns to the bookstore we don’t see the little boy but we do hear his voice.

@pskarts20 Жыл бұрын

Love how they seemed to be bragging about how they made the forgery. It would be near impossible..... All the technics that would go into it.... Knowing which parts to take out.... Bragging about purchasing and selling it.

@Begunova Жыл бұрын

They were just appreciating their own art, laughing to themselves))) And they didn't lie: it takes a real master to copy a masterpiece so well. It was their only pride and joy in life, their art and skills.

@pskarts20 Жыл бұрын

@@Begunova that's exactly what I'm saying. Very impish. Not lying ether. If it was a forged...... Like a devils trick. I never lied to you you just came to your own conclusion.

@tethron. 6 ай бұрын

Amazing summaries!

@justinhaller2055 Жыл бұрын

Few movies creep my out but The ninth gate did.

@joesguitarshop8194 9 ай бұрын

Really great videos on the 9th gate !!

@BlindBison Жыл бұрын

Perhaps there’s another possibility going off just the film. If the brothers feared for their lives and found out the other book owners were dying like flies they may have gone into hiding and they may have been those very same workmen/twin movers at the end of the film. One smokes one doesn’t just like before and it’s the same actor - perhaps they were there before and were closing their shop and trying to run while undercover as basic movers to protect themselves?

@whitedragoness23 Жыл бұрын

I always assumed they didn’t want to get killed and escaped. Which explains the empty shop, not so much that it’s completely empty but if your on the run, you don’t need a store anymore. Plus we saw many were killed over the books and their pages. I always assumed no supernatural aspect to them.

@damianstarks3338 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for this re upload.

@Drod6969 Жыл бұрын

Love this movie but I just noticed that it came out in 1999. Or 6661!

@Begunova Жыл бұрын

On the whole I like the theory of the brothers trying to hide and escape Balkan's wrath. They are bachelors, set in their ways, no other family, why would they just leave their workplace?.. On the other hand, in the book their role and motivation are clear, the last page says it all. In the film... why would they remove and replace that page, with no reward for it?.. Your video explained it: Polansky liked them more as supernatural entities! Thanks to him, we all got the chance to see the real original engraving. In the book it proved not to be necessary in the end.

@pookiesis1465 Жыл бұрын

@k.o.f.records1874 2 жыл бұрын

the twins are the angel with the mostache

@georgechacon2648 Жыл бұрын

Super Cool....Thank you

@david_karner 4 ай бұрын

I hadn't thought of that. Nice. I imagined that the power of the book actually fell on the brothers, and that part of this power is being made young again. The deja vue aspect makes more sense and also explains the angel with the moustache nicely.

@nekkrofear 7 ай бұрын

I think they are Imps or lesser devils. May be angels that rebelled. Lucifer was also an angel himself, so it's not farfetched. Also the Girl constantly alludes at her being an angel in disguise, even mocking Corso calling herself his guardian angel. After all, demons ARE angels, just fallen ones.

@leninfranco9328 Жыл бұрын

i have this movie on blue ray. i hope it gets a 4k release

@duantorruellas716 Жыл бұрын

What you revealed here cineG was mind-blowing about the twins. 👌

@Deseko 2 жыл бұрын

That only took me twenty years to get that answer haha

@chrispearson5098 Ай бұрын

The brothers, themselves, are like the engravings... identical, but with subtle differences. One chain smokes, the other doesn't like the smoke. Other than that, they are the same.

@TimothySweeney 3 ай бұрын

The Ceniza Brothers are essential characters to the film story, and there are no coincidences in the film. They clearly forged the plate, when the girl anointed Corso, she had already given the answer away, and so the Brothers who were some kind of angelic beings (an angel may appear as multiple voices or images) appointed to hide the answer to the riddle in the 3 books no longer had a purpose ( there is no reason to hide the answer to the riddle as it is now known), Polanski is (I believe) purposely vague about who exactly the Ceniza Brothers were working for.

@charlesfaure1189 Жыл бұрын

The Ceniza brothers had finished their task, just as Fargas, the Baroness and Balkan had. When the Devil is done with you, your time is up. I suspect they had an 'unfortunate accident.'

@Oldsmobile69 2 жыл бұрын

Didn't realize that about the two workmen. Too subtle.

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

They’re not twins.

@k.o.f.records1874 2 жыл бұрын

they are not even brothers. the smoker's name is Herrera and the non smoker's name is Lopez. different sur names

@richardreinertson1335 Жыл бұрын

@@darthsilversith667 They are clearly MEANT by Polanski to be twins, because they are played by the same actor, who also played both of the Cenizas. The fact that they give different last names just shows that everything about the Cenizas and their bookshop is downright fishy.

@richardreinertson1335 Жыл бұрын

@@k.o.f.records1874 See my reply to @Darth Silver Sith

@chandie5298 Жыл бұрын

the visual clues. 2:19 the inkwell 2:20 what is this being pointed to? can anyone help? 2:22 freshly created and drying forgeries, i think

@Monkguyfunk1 2 жыл бұрын

Hey man. I love this movie. Keep it up, friendo

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss

@Monkguyfunk1 2 жыл бұрын

Your a bit deaf aren't ya. 2 dollars lost on a coin toss. Lol

@LordofDarknessX 2 жыл бұрын

@@darthsilversith667 Kneel before me, before the Dark Side.....

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

@@LordofDarknessX I already kneel to the dark side. Obviously.

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

@@Monkguyfunk1 I love that movie and especially that scene!

@rhuxley5130 4 ай бұрын

This was great

@musicislife2000 2 жыл бұрын

Dang I seen this movie back in 99 in theaters and bought the dvd after and I never knew great work 👍🏻

@KG-wh8yv 7 ай бұрын

They should have made this a part of the supernatural part of the movie. This movie had great potential but got whimsical with its music and storyline at times that reduced its effort.

@rhuxley5130 4 ай бұрын

The angels w mustaches. I missed this

@laurentquintana262 2 жыл бұрын

bravo

@breakingblackmagic7617 2 жыл бұрын

the two workers...look like younger version of the men..... they look like twins themselves..

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

They’re not. They have different last names.

@HighFalutinTootin Жыл бұрын

they weren't dead they moved on to a different place, otherwise why take so long to clear out the shop?? also the workmen could be relatives or friends instructed to say they were dead to keep people from looking for them

@jbalogh01 Жыл бұрын

I really liked this flick. I will watch again.

@winterbalm 2 жыл бұрын

could they be Aristido Torquea himself?

@greyeye6371 7 ай бұрын

Why did they take one page and forge it ? To prevent anyone from ever summoning the devil . If so , why did they not burn the page after removing it ?

@knifeboygamer1200 4 ай бұрын

I could tell it was the same actor both times but I brushed it off thinking I was crazy seeing things 😂

@guardshack9606 Жыл бұрын

Another difference is their glasses. One far-sighted, one near sighted?

@gadwaboy21 Жыл бұрын

Been out more than 23 years. No spoilers here lol

@berczigabor 19 күн бұрын

Or they could have been killed by Corso in order to not reveal the secret to anyone else

@TigburtJones Жыл бұрын

Nice video bro

@TK199999 8 ай бұрын

Its just as likely that Balkan also killed the brothers to remove anyone who knew too much about the books.

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

Also.. the two guys at the end weren’t twins? They had different last names?

@Anne-pv9cb 2 жыл бұрын

The same actor played it and there was a stand in for his back view. Not too bright are you, sunshine?

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

@@Anne-pv9cb You’re the one that’s not to bright. Go watch that part again. When they introduce themselves, they very clearly say different last names. I’m a twin as well for the record.

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

@@Anne-pv9cb Even if it was played by the same actor, they weren’t twins. Twin males wouldn’t have different last names.

@LordofDarknessX 2 жыл бұрын

@@darthsilversith667 Their names were never mentioned & the person that made this video stated that they were also twins so you already have your answer.....

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

@@LordofDarknessX I actually made a mistake but it’s not the one everyone here thinks I made. After first seeing this video, I went and watched the scene in question from the actual movie. And one of the two men introduces themselves to Corso when he tries to find out what happened to the original book store. Watch a clip of that scene and you will see what I mean. They may have been played by the same actor but that doesn’t mean that he was playing a set of twins again. If they were, they would’ve made an effort to show both of those characters clearly like they did the first set of twins. To really hammer in that they were twins. I think they just had him play both parts again in that scene to save money. I should have mentioned in my comments above that people need to watch an actual clip of that scene to see what I am talking about. When he introduces themselves to Corso, he says two full and very different names. Also.. it is bad practice for a sith lord to take anything anyone says in a video at face value as absolute gospel.. ie, the creator of this video stating that the second set are twins.. they’re not. He however even stated that the script made no mention of those two being twins like it did with the first set. I don’t remember the names of the second set but I will go find out.. brb

@carlgreene538 13 күн бұрын

Those brothers don't look like the same actor.

@hermanhale9258 11 ай бұрын

Doppel gangers don't appear side by side and I don't think they talk, either.

@pendragonshall Жыл бұрын

I always took that they were demons or.. Damned souls forced to serve..

@jevoudraisphoque997 10 ай бұрын

Just read the book.

@user-bv5ny5ed4y 4 ай бұрын

A MI ME GUSTO MUCHO EL FILM AUNQUE ALGUNAS COSAS QUEDAN EN EL AIRE PERO .MUCHOS DE LOS FINALES DE POLANSKI SON ASI COMO EN "EL ESCRITOR OCULTO" . SI ALGUIEN PUDE SÚBALA A YOUTIBE LA VI EN ESTE SITIO HACE 4 AÑOS Y ES MB. GRACIAS. Y JOHNNY D. ES MUY VERSATIL CUANDO LE DARAN 1 OSCAR

@Mindfultranslations 2 жыл бұрын

Huh ?

@ilonapugmire6312 Жыл бұрын

🍀✨️🍀✨️🍀✨️💐🌷

@-Tokay- Жыл бұрын

Wow, How perceptive of you. 😉

@user-or9sk9td3z 9 ай бұрын

These very rare and expensive books and they’re all smoking around them and touching the paper with their fingers

@vivekgangwar9051 9 ай бұрын

I think that these twins are the judge from the cloud that shooting arrow... They killed everyone who have books... They tried to kill corso too but failed... That's why corso is accepted in hell👍 Twins are like hands of that girl devil, that's why these twins leave last clue for corso after completing the task I think corso killing balkan at the end completes the ritual... That devil girl was waiting for that moment and after making love, she invites corso to hell.....or other side

@stefanfrankel8157 9 ай бұрын

Read the novel. Balkan at the beginning and Balkan at the end are two different people....

@Indr1DC01D Жыл бұрын

So corso is the devil he just forgot and his acolytes trying to bring him home.

@miguelangelfuentes1011 7 ай бұрын

😇

@epicon6 2 жыл бұрын

3:16 didn't every single person die who was involved with the book. I would assume they died.

@k.o.f.records1874 2 жыл бұрын

the movers in the Ceniza store are not twins. the smoker is Hererra and the non smoker is called Lopez. differnt sur names. they are not even brothers

@CineG 2 жыл бұрын

Source IMDb: Jose Lopez Rodero was credited as Pablo & Pedro Ceniza / 1st & 2nd Workmen. Thanks for watching.

@ambassador8524 Жыл бұрын

Great movie. I think that blonde ate them.

@darthsilversith667 2 жыл бұрын

Spoiler warnings? Really? On a movie that’s been out for 23 years now? Anyone loses the right of getting a spoiler warning once a movie has been out for at least 3 months, let alone a couple decades plus lol

@dorianneutral1787 Жыл бұрын

If you say so

@gemgen1016 Жыл бұрын

agree, esp if you purposely CLICK on a video about revealing specifics about a movie that may or may not have a clip some where online. I'd say it'd be hard to follow along if you didn't want to get clues in somewhat of storyline order