Corax was a good kid. The Emperor had a definite soft spot for him.

"I am the last loyal man ,under a galaxy of traitor stars. The undying amongst the dead. I am JUSTICE" - Garvial Loken.

It make sense for the emperor to keep the twins a secret because that is their purpose. Alpha legion are spies. Keeping that secret allows them to be really good spies.

Based on what I’ve read, it was shortly after Malcador interviewed them that the decision was made in each case. It was also written that they didn’t fit the Emperor’s plan. So my personal head canon is the following: 2nd Primarch: Devout pacifist who refused the call to arms. 11th Primarch: some form of dictator (or mad scientist) who preferred to rule their own Imperium.

The angel and Big E have such a strong bond because when they met they both instantly started singing "rockin robbin" to each other.

It could make sense that Corax has 18 brothers, since the Emperor knows about the total amount of Primarchs: 21 Total (if counting Alpharius and Omegon as 2) minus the two deleted and minus Corax himself = 18

The primarch Leman Russ deleted and the other one must have been damn near useless if even Angron passed the bar.

I've never played wh40k. Never got into tabletop period. But you speak with such respect for your subscribers, and you can tell how passionate you are about your channel. God bless bro! You gained a sub from me

I have a feeling the lost primarchs are kept in stasis in the vaults deep beneath the Imperial Palace.

Emperor: Welcome my Primarch, my son, you are gifted with the gifts that are matched by none. You will be given your legion of Astartes, and they shall be your weapons to unite the galaxy Forgotten Primarch: Good, let's celebrate by feasting with the taco. Emperor: Is today not monday? Forgotten Primarch: Why yes, by democratic vote, we have decided the taco is to dine whenever to one's choosing. Emperor: Emperor: So yeah we'll never talk about him again.

There is a clue as to what happened with II and XI legion. There was a time in the Great Crusade called Rangdan Xenocides, a war against race or possibly several races under one baner (it's possible that Slaught was part of it, race of worm like beings that are REALLY HARD to kill and has incredible technology on par with NECRONS) called Rangdan, it's said that Rangdan were so horrible that the only things on par or possibly more powerful than them were Necrons at their PRIME and Old Ones (if you are even compared to these two you are scary). Xenocides were so bad it took many fleets and Titan Legions, several planets were destroyed and 7 LEGIONS had to be thrown at them and one of these legions were II and XI which may imply that it was Rangdan that did something to these legions that had to be fixed by Space Wolves. Oh and even all of that wasn't enough and Emperor had to release VOID DRAGON. Myabe he was riding it creating the most manly and godly image in history of everything. Granted Emps after the thing wiped the memories of most people and little to no people know what actually happened. But the loses were huge, it made Dark Angels and Space Wolves suffer big losses and many fleets and titan legions were gone and II and XI legions were most likely corrupted then purged. Xenocides happened before Alpharius was discovered.

I think it's been well made. I DO WANT MORE PRIMARCHS ON THE TABLETOP!!

Who knew the Wolf Time would be the day after Christmas? My Wolf Lord playlist grows yet again

happy sanguinala the emperor protects...

The thing is that Chaos only stole on of the twins. One of them was actually the first found, the other was the last; the true Alpha and Omega. The story of Alpharius is a combined telling of both.

My custom chapter uses the second legions primarch as theirs. Been working on the back story for years, but just recently really dived into the lore and pieced a better story together. Mostly in thanks to channels like this. Thank you wolf lord!

Awesome work, thank you very much! But I hope we will one time hear something about the 2 "lost" primarchs.

When it comes to official lore concerning the Horus Heresy I prefer to use the Forgeworld black book series. Seen as how in interviews BL have stated that since their books often contradict (due to so many authors over such a long period of time) and at times use unreliable narrators, that they're almost non-canonical. And combined with the fact that, until recently, the black book series was written by a single person, and from the perspective of an in-universe historian, I take the black books to be an almost primary source. I still consider BL books to be lore but in cases where they contradict a black book I take Alan Bligh's word over theirs. This being said, however, with the Forgeworld series going on and the death of AB, Black Library and Forgeworld are increasingly in-sync.

I always forget that conrad turned. Especially when the Khan didnt.

I’ve long believed that somehow Oregon was not amongst the scattered but secretly raised on Terra. Thus, the Emperor telling Corax that he had eighteen brothers always made sense to me.

Thank you for keeping an eye out for those of us who don't necessarily have a very merry Christmas, it's much appreciated!

I absolutely loved this video!!! Gonna share to my local group so we can have a deep dive on this

Magnus actually says he never stopped speaking with his father, so it makes sense that he feels so close to him

And HAPPY HOLIDAYS BRUVAHS!

My holidays always suck, thanks for the video! Awesome job man. Can't wait to see future uploads.

I was under the impression Lion El'Jonson was found later than 11th, because he had a relatively late start into the Great Crusade which made his legion's accomplishments of 2nd(?) most conquered worlds all the more impressive.

I suspect at least one of the lost primarchs must have been afflicted by either horrible mutations, or xenos subversion, non-functioning insanity, etc. Thus the 'sanction by Russ' would have been seen as justified by the other brothers. It is hinted that Guilliman absorbed at least one of the lost legions into his own. Alternatively one could have also been deleted for outright refusing to serve the Emperor...which would def get you deleted. Imagine a primarch in thrall to the Eldar? Or infested by genestealers? Or just found dead. Maybe he suicided to make a point about something, or fell befoul of some lethal Dark Age tech.

Clonelord mentions that early on in the Great Crusade one of the Lost Primarchs led an expedition to the Ymgra Monolith which turned out to be a Necron construct similar to the Cadian Pylons. Later on the II an XI Legions fought in the Rangdan Xenocides where the Emperor had to open the Labyrinth of the Night to end the conflict. Maybe there’s a connection between the two events since the C’Tan known as the Void Dragon is trapped inside the Noctis Labyrinthus.

I still believe that when the Emperor made his comment to Corax about the number of brothers he had, is due to the fact that the last two had yet been found. The Emperor also could not explain the discrepancy to Corax without revealing the role Chaos played in separating them all, in the first place.

As far as I can tell there's little correlation between the order the Primarchs are found and the distance of their home worlds to Terra. You'd expect Primarchs living on worlds closer to Terra to be found first, although space is big and this does not have to determine the order they are found in. Also, one can hint at the nature of the two lost Primarchs by considering that each Primarch embodies an aspect of the Emperor. The lost Primarchs therefor emphasize traits we haven't seen in the other Primarchs.

Third found was the second primarch I think, Fulgrim in his Horus Heresy novel (The Palatine Phoenix) muses over his already discovered brothers and also mentions the second primarch, who by that time is not REDACTED yet. Fulgrim describes his brother as silent as far as I remember.

I love the portraits of the different primarchs you've used in this video.

One of my favourite wh40k loremasters on youtube, together with arch, leutin, borderprince and remleiz! Love your content and hope you had a good one these holidays! Konrads meeting was so eerie, definatly one of my favourite interactions, but i dont think it would have changed him if big E found him earlier...he was practically doomed from the moment he made another hole in Nostramo, the night lords already we're quite fond of using terror tactics before their primarch came back to the fold. I think it was just who he was, and so his legion embodied that

Love these kinds of vids, I would really like to see a Primarch ranking video. Ranking them in anyway from strongest to weakest smartest to dumbest whatever. I just love talking Primarchs & this is what I always think about

I love that for basically any 40k question I have, I can find an entire video on it!

Thing I found find most interesting is that for the most part, later legions are a lot more specialized while the first couple fill quite a few role. Just thought it kinda cool.

Love your work, great lore video!

Happy Christmas mate, can’t afford to send you anything but can I say I really really appreciate your video. They really help people like me. Won’t go into details but thank you from the bottom from my heart this time of year.

Hey Wolf Lord and happy holidays! I pressed the like button before starting the video. I hope there is no problem with that.

Good stuff. Merry Christmas Wolf Lord.

Merry Christmas Rho and the 40k community :)

Two personal notes I always think about when discussing the Primarch discovery order: 1) I like the thought that Alpharius was the first found Primarch, kept secret from the Imperium, and Omegon was found last(and more publicly). Finding your master of stealthy warfare first and not declaring it makes a ton of sense to me, and if he were found first that would explain both the naming of the "Alpha"(first) Legion, and the arrogance Alpharius projects. 2) In my headcanon, we know who the II Legion was - the Lightning Bearers. Their creator(whose name escapes me) wrote phenomenal bits of lore about his legion and Icarion, their Primarch. And the way it's written goes a long way to explaining why Russ is the way he is. If you haven't read about the Icarion and Lightning Bearers, I'd highly recommend looking for the original B&C threads following the project.

The Lost Primarch that was Third Found, is the "Master of the Second", according to Fulgrim. According to Fulgrim, the "Master of the Second" was one of the original Eight Primarchs. Also, regarding the Lost Primarchs being removed before Corax, it is apparently since been retconned by Black Library according to a specific rumour I heard once.

Such a good video. Yes, please do a video on 'what if Horus was not found first.' I love pre-corrupted Horus, and those moments when we see Warmaster Horus's humanity are always awesome. Love to hear your thoughts on him.

0:08-0:16 you're a good lad, Rho. Thank you.

Great video again. . . as usual. I am a fan of the Lion, and it always impresses me that he has about as many worlds to his tally as the 1st Found Horus and biggest legion Guilliman, who was also found earlier than the Lion.

Great lore video!

Keep it up mate. Love listening to lore

I would like to see someday something about the two ::CENSORED BY IMPERIAL DECREE:: For some archive on Mars or some other Mechanicum world to have that data. It has been stated at least in Titanicus that Mars doesn't delete data - but they do sequester it. If that information remains intact anywhere it is in some vault on Mars or on a forge world nearby wherever the primarchs were located.

Great video I love your content keep it up

Happy Xmas Rho!!! And hope its a great new year!

Wolf Lord Rho, Personally I dont believe the 2 lost Primarchs were purged for necessarily bad things. I tend to believe that they wanted greatness for Humanity but did not see eye to eye with their Fathers vision. I see those 2 brothers as more cases of the Father wanting them for the family business but they wanted to set on their own path. The Emperor could not tolerate this, should it dissolve his Inperium and let the other Primarchs think this. This, execution for such circumstance would not only explain why the Primarchs and Emperor are somewhat surprised by Heresy, but also why Horus was so angry with Malcador removing the statues. The brothers weren't evil...they weren't Chaos...they just went down a different path, one that wasn't necessarily wrong or evil...and they were destroyed for being to...human.

Wolf Lord Rho for the love of the emperor, please tell me what is the song in the background I remember you posting it in one of your videos, bjt cant seem to find it.

Magnus and the Emperor was communication telepathically from the moment Magnus's conscious formed in his cradle. He says so in A Thousand Son's book.

The Emperor makes Goku look like a dedicated father. 🐸☕

Thanks bro rho this is really helpful and interesting

Its really an interesting discussion, especially if you take part in the discussion of “Does the order effect who would become Warmaster?” especially in regards to Horus, Sanguinius, Lion, Roboute, Lehman, & Magnus.

still my head cannon that the two missing Primarchs weren't killed mainly because of how shocked the others were at the death of Ferrus, Lorgar actually questioning if they can die till Angron reminds him. the lost I think could be a warp storm or possibly going beyond the boundaries of known space and the purged were just the purging of the legion rather than killing the Primarch or maybe the purged just left taking his legion with him and the disgrace purged his name from the records

I like the idea that Malcador and the Big E messed with their memories slightly (except for Russ him being the Emperors executioner)

Honestly, they all look like heavy metal enthusiasts.

I love the content and man I agree we need some Sanguinius and Emperor stuff. These two are would be epic. Also we need the Rangdan genocide as well. Man or have Sanguinius come back imbued with saintly powers after 10k years of Sanguinala as the true Angel of the Emperor. Edit it's also interesting that Sanguinius had the largest space fleet and third largest Legion behind the Ultramarines and Iron Warriors. He had the 3rd most victories behind Horus and the Lion. He was such a great all around Primarch and Konrad is my other favorite Primarch.

In one picture, you see marines holding the banner of Fulgrim and also holding the banner with a snake on it. The Alpha Legion didn't use that symbol until long after Fulgrim went to chaos. Therefore the snake symbology was probably one of the two missing primarchs.

The lost and the forgotten, is a hint to what happened. The lost meaning that primarch failed in some way, but did not betray the emperor or be subject to chaotic coppurtion. I.E. fell in battle, lost in the warp,or something similar. While the forgotten would be a betrayal but similar to Lorgar worshipering the emperor. In the First heretic, gives 2 hints to this. The first is discussion between Lorgar and Magnus in the city of flowers. The second being the scene in the Emperor's laboratory.

It all makes very particular sense 👍

Doesn’t the emperor discuss Angron with Arkan land in one of the books? It’s not much but probably all we’ll get Love you videos dude 😁👍

Thank Veronika Anruthi for that awesome Primarch and Emperor icon painting!

Your such a boss mate!

I like how Magnus communicated The Emperor Psychically long before his arrival on Prospero

If the Emperor had found my boy Mortarion first ..oh man that would have been one bad ass crusade !! :)

(scrolls through new video list) Welp, guess I'll watch your video for a fourth time.

What if one of the lost primarchs was raised in a planet infested with xenos of almost every kind? And when he grew up, he created a society that had humans and xenos living in a multi-cultured world. Xenos that couldn’t be in a civilization like the Orks were obviously killed and viewed as enemies to repel. However, the lost primarch welcomed Eldar and other pre 40K xenos to live under his banner. No race was dominant over the other. Etc. When the Emperor arrived, he destroyed it all and attempted to capture the lost primarch and recondition him to be human only. He resisted and escaped his home planet. He attempted to stir a resistance against the Emperor, getting several currently extinct xeno empires to unite against him. With the Imperium still early in its development and only 2 primarchs found, the resistance had a chance. Eventually though, the lost primarch was killed by Russ, and his resistance didn’t last long after that.

I think they missed a trick not making one of the lost Primarchs the first found. Could have had Horus look up to him, feel shattered by his loss, feel unequipped to take his spot as first among equals and feel terrified by the thought that if the most beloved could be axed, none of them were safe with the emperor around. All of this have would added to his justification to go traitor, which in the present cannon I have felt was a bit weak.

The first psychic communication between Magnus and The Emperor: Magnus is just chilling, reading some occult books and suddenly hears a powerful voice say "what a fucking nerd you are"

By Deliverance Lost the two missing legions have already been purged.

Lion El'Jonson, is the Eldest son. Very interesting and awesome.

I just bought Wolfsbane. Great so far

This just makes me even more curious about who the lost ones are.

Has anyone here heard about this fan theory that Sigmar who founded the empire from warhammer fantasy was actually one of the lost primarchs and the reason why he was denounced by the Emperor was that he became the God of humanity in that world which goes against the Imperial truth of being worshipped? In regards to the Fantasy versus 40k arguement GW never came out, and actually stated that they were different universes. Also there are two missing Space Marine Legions in the 40k universe meaning there are also two missing Primarchs. Sigmar by any comparison was no normal human being, and had many traits befitting a Primarch. Another case for this arguement is that the Old Ones in Fantasy are a direct link to the Old Ones in 40k. They're both described as reptillian star beings who were fighting a war across the galaxy against an unknown enemy (Necrons). Humans were created along side Orks, and the other species to help this towards this end. The Elves in Fantasy could simply be a colony of Eldar who escaped the great collapse of the Eldar Empire, and forgot their ancestry. The world that the Fantasy genre inhabits could simply be surrounded by a warpstorm that never dissipated making it impossible for the Emperor of Mankind to find it. For goodness sake Leman Russ, and Sigmar have very similar backgrounds both becoming the likes of Kings/Emperors on their worlds. Sigmar didn't leave to join a pantheon of Gods but perhaps did as the Lion did. The pantheon of the Gods could be one elaborate scheme to hide the true fact the Gods are in fact the Imperium of Man!! I mean hell Sigmarines are carbon copies of Space Marines fighting on multiple planes of the material universe, and immaterial universe. The Lion was able to construct rudimentary Bolters on his home world! Sigmar could have simply made rudimentary copies of Power Armor. Also the Chaos Gods aren't as different as you would think...

One would think that Rogal and Roboute would be found among the first given they inhabited interstellar empires that would've come into contact with the Imperium earlier during the crusade. Also Imagine how Impy felt: he finds Rogal and his Empire and adds it to the Imperium without hassle, then he finds Roboute and adds an even bigger chunk of stars to his realm and then he finds the pen-ultimate piece to his master plan in the face of Magnus! Can't stop him now!

W O L F L O R D R H O HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO YOU BROTHER 💪💪💪

I feel that the Dark Angels were ordered to Destory the lost 19th legion in secret. Its why the Emperor fully trusts the Lion but everybody else is kind of suspicious of them. As one day one of the Primarchs asked where the 19th Legion is and the Emperor says "We will not talk of them. The Dark Angel's have destroyed them". Then the Primach asks "but why father?". The Emperor solemnly responds "Because it was my order to have them disposed of son"

I would like to see Lion talking to the tomb after the siege and that talk leading up to the wolf lord bearing his breast and asking the Lion to kill him (if still cannon). I've always found the GC and HH only been 200 years more or less odd when some of the Primarch's are said to have spent years with the emperor I understand they learn quick but still to learn all that they where meant to know or desired to know should take some time there still part human after all. 2 and 11 I would love to see a hint as to why they where "removed from imperial records" that would still leave them open for what if DIY chapters.

I really want to know more about the Lost & The Purged. Even if we don’t get names ( so hobbyists can make their own up; which is dumb ). I want to know some aspects of personality or why they were looked down upon and forgotten. Maybe even battle tomes of their exploits. Also I always pitch to 40K theories to do one on, what if Kurze never landed where he did. Maybe on a planet that had a positive influence on him. What would he have become? Or would he still have a tragic end?

I know it would contradict them being erased from history, but I would love some lore on the lost primarchs

Alpharius was the first found . His pod never left terra. Later he became omeggon and omeggon who was last found became alpharius.

Well Big E and Magnus had met in the warp long before he was found in the physical. Also, I've always suspected that Alpharius (Omegon?) was found earlier than the official histories say, perhaps much much much earlier and he was simply out working, doing the sort of work that only he (and his twin) could do. Something that was kept a secret from even the other Primarchs.

I always liked to think of the "deleted" 19th Primarch as Omegon, in the sense of Big E deciding that he'll keep his existence a secret when he found him and Alpharius. So technically, it would make sense that Corax was found before the deleted 19th, the flaw here is that the Emperor told Corax he had 18 brothers and two more they would talk about another time. So not only would that mean that Omegon and the 19th Primarch couldn't be the same person, but also that Corax would've known that there are actually 21 Primarchs and one is still missing after they found Alpharius. Yet Corax - at least to my knowledge - never wondered about that and I highly doubt he forgot about his first meeting with the Emperor, since the question of who had created him plagued him for a very long time and at that very moment, he not only met the one who did, but also learnt that he was not alone.

@Wolf Lord Rho in the novel Thousand sons Magnus speaks like he talked too the emperor while he was in the incubation chamber being made.

Personal theory: the twins were made twins because each had a different purpose, and each had secrets from the Emperor that the other didnt know. Or that at least Omegon kbew things that Alpharius didnt. Alpharius was military intelligence and ops but Omegon was something different. Perhaps more related to the warp and the gods and the big E himself. I kind of feel Omegon is loyalist and is part of a much bigger longer game that only him and the big E know about, not the other Primarchs, not even Alpharius.

Knowing how at odds the Emporer and Angron were, its surprising that he wasn't made ex-communicate as well. So that tells me the 2 lost Primarchs must have REALLY screwed up to be wiped from the record book.

I really REALLY need to see the excuse the Emperor has for just teleporting Angron onto his ship and letting all of his friends die! He puts so much effort into winning most of his other sons loyalty, yet he was lazy with Angron in finding him, and recruiting him. Here’s my head canon. What we read about Angron is his side of the argument. He talks about his father taking his victory, and forcing him away from his friends who were like brothers and sisters to him, and the Emperor’s excuse being “I got better shit to do.” What if that’s Angron’s unquenchable rage spitting noise and twisting the facts? What if the truth is that the Emperor saw Angron fighting to be free, and wanted to help him. However, he realized there was absolutely no scenario where he would survive along with his friends. If the Emperor were to intervene...I don’t have a specific reason as to why he can’t but let’s just say the consequences of him arriving and helping Angron will make things even worse. So, with no other choice, the Emperor teleports a battered and incredibly wounded physically and mentally Angron onto his ship. And in Angron’s fit of rage and bloodlust, he sees himself as a victim of a stolen victory, when in reality, the Emperor tries to explain himself, but Angron’s fits would not stop. The Emperor tried waiting for this unbridled rage to subside so he can talk to his son, but it doesn’t happen. Angron has been living this fantasy ever since.

Regarding your musings on the lost primarchs deeds I always thought it had nothing to do with treason. For me these two must have committed a rebellious act but with good intentions or due to misguidance, something very similar to what Magnus did, something the Emperor would have previously forbade but left enough moral ambiguity ground for Horus and the others being angry at their brothers's erasure and consequent disrespect.

I do have one issue with the list. I think Jagatai Khan was found before Lion El'Johnson. In Decent of Angels, the first mission given to the Dark Angels was to relieve a force of White Scars overseeing the Compliance of Sarosh. If the Khan had been found after wouldn't they have been referred to as the Star Hunters the Fifth Legions Original Name?

Not surprisingly since the 3rd Primarch had over 30 kids when he was found. That was crazy.

Had the wolf, the lion, or the angel been found first I think everything would have been different. I also think that each primarch was designed for a purpose and with that Sanguinous was the primarch of faith in the emperor and empire.

Plesse keep making your videos

Didnt GW do the "lost primarchs" to hive the players the freedom to build their own Legion to play on the tabletop? I think that would be a pretty cool thing to play out your own legion with their own player written back story and stats.

2nd and 11th Legions were 'lost' for one simple reason - to allow players to create their own custom Legions. That's it. As for you being convinced the Emperor knew about the Alpha twins because he grew them in a tank together - you're forgetting one thing. It's so obvious it's easy to miss. The hint is the 'tank' itself. Both Alpharius and Omegon arrived at their respective destinations inside a gestation pod. Meaning each would have to be grown inside a separate tank. Yet by all accounts, in countless novels we can see, that there were only 20 pods. Not 21. When the Alpha gestation pod was lifted off by the warp storm, it was copied and duplicated by the warp, with both versions send on their merry ways. Alpharius and Omegon were more than just twins - they were not 2 individuals with the same DNA. Assuming you cannot copy paste a soul, they were ONE person in two bodies. The Emperor would have no idea.

The other possibility of why Horus was discovered first is that the Caos gods engineered the scattering to put Horus into being found by placing him on the closest planet so that the Emperor would detect him psychically.

my fav primarchs Perturabo Jaghatai khan Konrad Curze (night haunter)