There's IS a few problems. Their names are Zen, Vatira, and Rise

@@madeofglass012 FK, Bmode, Atomic, Dan, LJ, Na has the talent to compete just not the mindset

Facts, Ferra said it best on First Touch BEFORE the major "ur doing a disservice to the region by saying they're the best when clearly they're not", he was right on money with his take

@@3mjd665they are not at the same level just accept it

@@3mjd665 When 4 of the 5 players you listed didn't even qualify for the major and 2 of them won't even be at worlds, you have to accept there is a disparity in talent as well.

Right? It's so hard to listen to the circular arguments. Especially when it's just been guests talking over TBates two pods in a row.

Tbates needs to learn how to be consistent in his arguments across all podcasts, he always gets called out for his contradictions and just argues for the sake of it. It gets annoying.

Lol

NO WAY BRDOOO

shit is getting overplayed lol let it go

@@VegetaDBestthey have to let it go since hogan mode let scrub go and he was the reason why everyone made those comments

Yeah they dropped Scrub. Memes over sadly.

Too much information, he was still soaking all that 😂

His resume is insane, even on just the french scene he is winning so many local tournaments with different teams every time against pros like MM, Alpha, Saizen, Extra, and so on, bro is different

I find his constant interruptions and twisting peoples words very annoying

Gay

And you bet he'll be smiling back 😂

We love Achieves!!

Yeah and the two super teams that had been assembled, Faze and V1, didn't ven qualify for the major.

and what Tbates is referring to, the idea of a real super team, something like Dan, Bmode and Firstkiller forming up, has no parallel in EU. Theres no team with Vatira, Zen, and Monkeymoon. EU just has a lot more talent. Players that would be considered top tier in NA (LJ, Ayyjayy, Daniel, etc) do make roster changes and get smoked by EU, that's just a fact. SSG dropped Retals for LJ cause he was someone who was performing insanely at Oxygen and what happened? Firstkiller has hand chosen the person he wants to play with for two years, took Sypical (the best player off SSG), Ayyjayy, and then dropped Ayyjay for Mist, and has still never won a single major and has only been in 1 major final ever.

I was one of the people that didn't agree with them getting rid of ayyjayy. Yeah they didn't get past top 4 but they were always there abd i don't think there's anyway you defend fk and ayyjayy forever

Nwpo has better car control than zen imo. But Zen is so smart and makes genius plays on the fly though like no other

That's so hard to track. But giving like 10/15 points for every demo should be a thing, not only for 7 demos

Tbf I don't think he physically can argue for his takes. It's like Amber Heard's lawyers, they had no chance

@@oGaalen 🤣🤣

I'd be lying if I said this thought hasn't crossed my mind 😂 I think he views playing devil's advocate as study. Man loves putting himself in a corner, but rarely claws himself out.

Honestly after watching every NRG series these last 3 splits he's not necessarily wrong. The overall team mental had a big impact but squishy missing touches or being out of rotation was a relatively common occurrence.

@@Zeth3n but calling him a bubble player is crazy… there’s ssl players, SSL grinders, bubble players, semi pro, and S tier pro. That es getting confused cause rlcs used to have the main league of top8 teams and then the relegation league where other teams could play to get into the top8 league, I think it was called RLRS (where jstn got his comeup playing in Lachinio’s team). Being relegated down to the RLRS was embarrassing and something the top 8 teams had to lookout for, even G2 ended up almost being relegated down, but the next season they went to the rlcs grand finals with Rizzo. Just cause a team isn’t top 8 in rankings doesnt mean they can’t pop off at lans. Anyway, calling squishy a bubble player is insane cause imo it’s Garrett that played the worst during this split, just based on the eye test.

@@ivann9322 That's fair, seems squishy is just tired and a bit burnt out. Maybe he'll take some time off and regain, maybe he'll take the Ws he's gotten and call it a day. No doubt he's an amazing and influential player and has certainly left his mark on the game as a whole.

zens path is impressive but he has no room to coast . every step just gets harder and harder . if it all goes downhill from here he will not be a world champion.

I could be very wrong here, but wasn't the whole "Vatira invisible" meme from that final when KC reset the bracket? His team may have taken down Vitality, but he still wasn't comfortable. Again I'm speaking straight from memory, but it's the only argument I see😂

@@ethanluke5130 I think so, but still, Vati did bracket reset them, at least they won a series, is Zen in the head of ApparentlyJack Atow Acronik Rise CRR Reysbull, Killeerz ? No, he is just better 😅

Personally my least favorite part but to each their own

Not Rauls list that’s fosho

Zen, Vatira, Alpha, M0nkey and Rise. Seikoo and Atow honorable mentions.

I guess roll dizz is invisible...

@@amadeus5539 he is

Its also just flat out wrong

25:12 LOOL

Nope - C9 did it in season 6 and, more recently, Moist did it in last year's Spring major against Falcons.

@@Snapey81 in my head moist lost for some reason lol

@@bensmith7964 They lost the previous major (Winter) to G2 which was also after a bracket reset

Calling the only successful team renegades is crazy. Chiefs really got 4th in s6 just to be disrespected like that

If they don't look at major results for each region and adjust region spots accordingly they're either out of touch or there's money/contracts involved lol. It'd honestly be fair and make the most sense to alter them at the end of every season, match region spots for the next season to worlds spots in the former.

@@paralies1276 I didn’t mean to really disrespect them I should’ve specified, I’m talking about the core of the renegades team that was the most successful for a while. Pretty sure they were chiefs before they signed

@@TyreseWigglebottom chiefs was Torsos Drippay and Kamii. Renegades was Fever, CjCj and Kamii. I get oce isn’t up to par with the other regions rn but they weren’t always this bad

@@paralies1276 I probably just forgot about that then. So you’re right, I get that, but also it still just means that oce hasn’t been good since before the new format in season X. I just think that if other regions are performing good with less slots maybe at one point we give a spot over for a season and see how it goes?

Also, I think its crazy Zen has the best mechs in the world. But most of the time he just facilitates his teammates and plays passively. Not enough people giving credit to Alpha and Radosin, theyre playing crazy. Almost as if they have the best player in the world as their 3rd man to always back them up.

Why on Earth should a team make the major for winning a regional if they do poorly for the rest of the split? If a team wins 1 regional but comes dead last in the other 2, surely the win is the anomaly and not the last place finishes? You're punishing a consistent team by rewarding an inconsistent one, and this argument has only cropped up by salty V1 fans trying to justify their team's poor performance. I guarantee that if a team like 'hey bro' somehow made a Cinderella run and won the first regional, but then came dead last the next and failed to qualify for the other one, that this argument would be non-existent if it meant them making major resulted in V1 missing out. The fact that across all 18 regionals so far, V1 is the only team to have won a regional but missed out on the major should prove that the system works perfectly fine and V1 just bottled it massively. Also had Daniel and Beastmode not played together for a long time? Comm is taking all the heat for V1 flopping but if not for his bumps/demos creating the space for Daniel & BM to attempt their flashy mechanics they would not have won that second regional. The issue with V1 is Daniel and BM both trying to be the hero and getting in each other's way, double-committing pretty much every game. You're seriously trying to say the handful of scrims Vitality had with their full roster was more beneficial than actual RLCS games which the V1 roster all had years of before joining forces. Zen was not "coddled into greatness", he was already winning non-RLCS events he participated in before even joining Vitality and the insane 1s run he did had nothing to do with Vitality at all. No-one should be comparing Zen and Alpha to Dan and BM because there is literally no comparison to be made. Zen and Alpha are two of the best players in the world. Dan and BM probably aren't even top 10 in NA right now.

@@Snapey81 and yes zen was most definitely coddled into greatness because he was already so good and everyone knew he would be good if they did. That’s how EU utilizes it’s talent. They give people chances and opportunities to get better, like signing rookies before their eligible, allowing them to play in intense 1v1s against the best on live streams, play in scrims with the team they will eventually play with for MONTHS, etc. maybe coddled into greatness came off as derogatory to you but it’s not, it’s true. Zen was given every opportunity to be the best possible player he could be starting out, and he did that.

@@Sunscxpe2 Are you saying that Daniel didn't have the exact same hype and opportunity before he joined SSG? Wasn't he also allowed to play in intense 1v1s against the best on live streams? The difference is Daniel came into RLCS and literally won nothing for 18 events. Zen came in and won every single event he participated in, both RLCS and non-RLCS. Daniel joined an SSG roster that had literally won a regional in the previous split, Zen joined a Vitality roster that hadn't won anything in almost 2 years. Saying he was given every opportunity to live up to his hype is simply disrespectful, he did that by himself. He grinded 1s for 2-3 months, climbed up the ladder and then went on his insane run, beating all the very best 1s players from around the world. Daniel came in and immediately lost to the best 1s players, so Feer essentially spoon-fed him no-named opposition for several months for him to make his results look better than they were.

@@Snapey81 it’s not disrespectful it’s true. Yes zen earned his respect but you can’t discredit the way eu fosters talent, ESPECIALLY the French scene I mean they might as well be their own region. If zen was in NA, he would not be this good nor would he have won a 4 peat, etc. and bro be real with yourself, a vitality team that hasn’t won anything in 2 years? They were finishing top 6 at the major prior and top 4 in regionals? Yes Dan played against some good 1s players, he did not , however, land on a team that could’ve been best in NA (100% true) yes he did have an almost equal opportunity to be as successful and just as much hype. But I’m saying zen most definitely had a way better chance 1. Being from eu because the talent is better 2. Being from eu also because they foster talent and aid them in getting better 3. Being French (lol) because they’re the best in eu and not only did they help each other but they brutally beat down and then build up each other for fun 4. Being able to sign on EXTRA early and play in scrims and have the option to decide what players he wanted on the team as they all got nervous and went ham in training and play in order to get better and hopefully stay on the team. 5. The 1s tear he went on made everyone afraid of him. As I said, almost equal opportunity. I think we agree on a lot more than we disagree on here.

@@Sunscxpe2 Sorry, I'm not trying to be argumentative but we don't agree on a lot of the topics covered. Which is fine in a debate. Yes, Vitality had not won anything in almost 2 years, their last win being RLCSX - is that incorrect? The split before Zen joined Vitality they finished 2nd, 5th and 5th. The split before Daniel joined SSG they finished 3rd, 5th and 5th - there's really not that much of a difference. When Zen joined Vitality they were absolutely not in conversation for #1. SSG could easily have been #1 in NA when Daniel joined, especially given they instantly made a top 2 finish in his first regional. The cold hard truth is that Zen lived up to and exceeded his hype, whereas Daniel has been a huge disappointment given his hype. The fact that Vitality did what they did, in what we both agree to be a much stronger region, and given the complete domination of KC the previous split (they were literally 1 game away from a perfect split themselves) further amplifies his achievement. I'm not sure I follow any of the arguments you've made for Zen having an advantage because EU is better than NA. Surely that gives Daniel the advantage because he's breaking into a weaker region? I don't know, I just don't see it myself. Basically 1, 2 & 3 are just saying because EU > NA, 4 is giving way too much credit to scrims and 5 could just as easily apply to Daniel when he joined SSG - if you look at his Liquipedia results just before he joined SSG it's a sea of 1s showmatch and tournament wins.

EU - NA placements were relatively the same, but that’s because EU had to knock each other out. In terms of EU to NA head to head, it was EU - 6, to NA - 2

Yeah, they have fallen off so hard

As someone else has pointed out, this is simply due to the top EU teams eliminating the other top EU teams due to unfortunate bracketing. It is in no way a reflection of the gap in quality between them.

Then the majority of their audience aren't your type of people, I guess?

Are you tbates in disguise? Writing things in caps to make a point doesn't make it true bud. If Faze, V1 and G2 are your literal best teams, why weren't they at the major? V1 didn't even qualify for worlds for Gods sake. Both V1 and G2 have negative records against EU. Faze in the last major got beat by every EU team they played, which includes the EU #5 seed. What makes you think they would have fared any better, given how poorly they performed this split in what is unquestionably a weaker region? Just so you know, NA sent some of the teams you listed to the previous major (Faze, GenG, G2 and most would agree Complexity should be there on your list instead of SSG and Optic) and EU still won the major and went 6-2 in head-to-head series against NA, and it should have been 7-1 if not for the biggest throw in RLCS history. I'm also not sure why you would list SSG and Optic given how badly they got battered in this very major by EU, losing to Moist, Liquid and KC between them. People are saying EU are better because it has been proven time and time again to be undeniably true. The last two majors EU are 13-3 against NA. In the open era, the number of LAN wins by EU players is 17 compared to NA's 4. EU have won over twice as many LANs as NA, both in the open era and before it. Literally the _only_ team from NA to have a postive win record against EU is Faze, which is sitting at a very shaky 54%. The whole point of regionals is to find the best teams from each region to send to the major. The teams you listed as being 'competitive' in your region simply aren't as good as you think, when EU has to compete with literally 4 of the best 5 teams in the world in Vitality, KC, BDS and Liquid, along with teams like Moist, Oxygen, G1 and yes - Hogan Mode who despite being a meme I would back to not struggle against most of the NA teams you listed. The problem is, like Ferra said on First Touch, NA fans are in such huge denial over the lack of any real talent in their region, to the point that 3 of the 5 teams NA sent to the major aren't even NA, and the 2 best performing NA teams from the last major had a whole 1 NA player on the pitch, that their delusion is preventing the region from improving. You have to accept there is a problem in order to correct it, and just telling yourselves time and time again that EU were lucky, NA didn't send their best teams, NA could win if they valued winning over loyalty (come on...) is just copium of the highest level.

@Snapey81 They aren't at the major bc they were not consistent through out 1 split the best teams can still lose my point is that yes na has a problem with trying out new talent but your acting like you did not hear all the casters say that those are genuinely the best teams in the region either way my point is not that na is better than eu is that eu has no competition besides the NA top 8, Sam top, and R1 and falcons. Every body is saying that eu as a whole is better than na but only 3 teams out of 16 can show up and represent kcorp bds and vitality Don't even give me liquid bc as a big optic fan I know that liquid can and should of swept optic or beat them in four and last season kcorp with noly in my eyes was one of the most consistent teams that whole season but were they the best team no and that's why at worlds they did not make it far what I'm saying is that if I'm hogan mode or sonics or psg tundra etc. I only haft to worry about 4 teams kcorp liquid vitality and bds while in NA if I am a team like Koi or g league or team axle I haft to worry about 10 teams v1 faze g2 ssg optic shopify complexity furia and nrg yes I do agree that zen is the best player in the world but if you saw the spring he wasn't playing like the zen I know and the zen that's getting hyped.Sunday really showed that he is the best player. If instead of zen facing bds they face a team like g2 faze or v1 you think he going to be comfortable no he's going to sweat his balls off against FK, mist, sypical,Daniel,Beastmode, comm, Atomic,Chicago, jknaps I am not bates but I understand bates bc clearly no one else can U talking about me typing in caps but you wrote a whole essay thinking any1 is going to read all that

@@ethantaylor305 Well you clearly did read all that given your response, and then wrote a whole essay in return which wasn't exactly easy to read. You clearly only watch NA Rocket League given how bad your takes are. You think EU is a 4 team region (strange that your original comment called it a 2 team region, we're definitely going up!) and then list a bunch of NA teams that really aren't that good. V1 have been a huge disappointment, they have missed Winter, Spring and now Worlds - after they acquired Daniel they finished 12th twice, they couldn't even beat KOI to make major. NRG haven't been relevant in about a year, nobody thinks they are a good team any more my guy. Furia just went out dead last in the major, G2 just aren't that team any more, SSG and Optic showed how good they are in the recent major (and haven't actually won anything in the open era) and listing Shopify further shows how far you're reaching. Faze had their worst split ever and have not looked like themselves since the major choke. Meanwhile EU has Vitality, KC, BDS and Liquid as the literal 4 best teams in the world to content with. Moist show time and time again how good they can be at the majors. Oxygen - that crap on GenG every time they play, G1 - the EU #5 seed that recently beat Faze and hell yes we would put Hogan Mode over a lot of NA teams right now given how well they performed across 2 of the last 3 regionals. I'm not even sure what point you're making about Liquid. For me they were the most disappointing again for EU - out of the only 3 losses EU has had to NA over the last couple of majors, 2 of those losses were by Liquid. But they were still good enough to eliminate Optic. And no, I really don't think Zen would give a damn against any of the players you mentioned, I don't think he cares who he plays. When none of the players you listed were good enough to make the major that he dominated (and not just against EU), why would he? He's better than every single player you mentioned, which is agreed to by pretty much everyone that watches RL. Saying you understand bates is the final nail in the coffin.

What you want me to change it again ok 3 teams vitality kcorp and bds not liquid bc they barely beat optic and your not getting the point eu top teams are better than na top tems BUT na has competition unlike your region so they can't send their literal best teams when did I ever say that na is better than eu You clearly just started watching rlcs bc to say that "eu" is unquestionably better makes u sound sped like bro what are you smoking and you didn't name another team besides those 3 or 4 so this proves my point that eu is not better than na its those 3 or 4 teams that are better in na like I have said many times goofy bc originally I'm touching the points of if na sent there best five it wouldn't be eu dominace. Ok let's say this since you think eu as a whole is better than na as a whole if you take out vitality bds kcorp liquid and faze v1 geng complexity and probably g2 do you think that eu 6-11 and na 6-11 are the same no and that's what I'm saying EU will crumble without your top 4 your trying to speak on a whole different point so why are you replying it's wasting my time. I'm trying to argue my point not go against yours bc it's true the eu teams on Lan is most of the time better than the na teams on Lan but it's not dominace if NA are making top 2 past major won the Fall major and got second at worlds and .The season before that na got clapped at the spring major won the winter and got second at Fall. We are done with this conversation you are not even going into my point bc you know I'm right so you bring up something else to make me change about what I said.

@@ethantaylor305 Are you trolling? Apologies if so, it's very hard to tell the difference between a troll and an idiot. Didn't name another team besides those 3 or 4... my guy, I literally named several other EU teams in both of my above comments. Your point (I think) is that EU is top heavy, but NA has more depth for the teams outside of the top 4. Which is ironic, given that historically that has been the exact opposite up until recently (NA only a few good teams at the top, EU with way more depth). But you're wrong - the NA teams in 6-11 are just not as good as you think they are. Your argument keeps switching, initially it was that NA didn't send their best teams and the results would have been different if Faze, V1 and G2 were there instead, now you're saying that NA is more competitive which is why those teams didn't make it? Saying EU doesn't have any competition is a hilariously bad take. Also - it's fairly common knowledge that the only reason NA made finals at both Winter major and Worlds is due to bracketing, with all EU teams on one side and all NA teams on the other. When the brackets force EU v NA, like it did in both the recent Spring major and last year's Spring major, NA didn't make the finals for either and had minimal representation in top 6/4/2. And it's probably not a great shout to mention GenG winning Fall, given that 2 of their 3 players are from EU. We're arguing because I know you're wrong, difference is I'm using actual evidence to back it up rather than just spouting nonsense based on copium.

hearing tbates out it probably the worse decision the human mind could make... no disrespect

I think 'perfectly reasonable' is a massive overstatement. Probably about 95% of his takes are ridiculous, which is why literally everyone disagrees with them all vehemently. It's nothing to do with not understanding him, but when he keeps saying stupid shit then people are obviously going to react accordingly. Most of the time they do hear him out, but sometimes it's difficult since he never shuts up and keeps (in his words) 'yap-yap-yapping' on with his bad takes.

bro his takes are awful 90% of the time

agreed but id you think roll dizz's predictions are terrible you have see nothing