To put it another way. Once you find the truth, hold into it.

You NAILED it!

Sye ten bruggencate should be a dlc character in mk11. DEBATALITY!

Sye comes off extremely unhappy poor guy

@@Anthony-ov8jq lol sye is very ignorant

Sye turns every discussion into rude, circular double talk. I was also enjoying the debate until Sye chimed in. Hovind is not competent to address the issues so he brings Sye along with him for support. Sys is also not competent to debate so he bogs down and stonewalls the dialogue to a halt with his exhausting word-game acrobatics.

I am watching this now and looking forward to that part. He is such a douche bag.

I'm a theist and I admire Sye and Eric for demolishing atheists in minutes haha

Galaxy What part of their argument are you impressed with?

+Scott Godlewski All of it. It exposed the folly of atheism and skepticism haha

+Galaxy I accept the faulty position of atheism but skepticism is something that is (or should be) practiced by everyone. Whenever you apply a critical thought to any information you're given, that's skepticism. I'm not an atheist but I am very skeptical of religion (organized, at least) and from where I stand Eric and Sye's logic and presuppositional argument don't pass the smell test. And really, I wish atheists and theists would stop agreeing to debate the existence of this god or that. There's no winner there. Now, a discussion on the effects of religious belief has value. I wish Sye and Eric had participated in the discussion that Dr. Jones was attempting to have instead of hijacking it for yet another "but you could be wrong" sideshow. I would really like to have gotten an honest discussion on the topic of "is church harmful?" from the viewpoints of a group of civil atheists, evangelicals and unaffiliated theists. But Sye couldn't be bothered to participate and that's unfortunate.

+Scott Godlewski Skepticism and critical thinking is absolutely great, I'm all for it. HOWEVER, I think being skeptic about self-evident knowledge that has been given to us by our Creator is not only NOT healthy but damaging and destructive.

Someone should ask them, "Between the two of you, which one has the more accurate interpretation of god's word ?"

They would disagree with your premise. "What is accuracy in your worldview?" would be their response.

After years of being aware of Sye, to even get on with a discussion (although they try their best to stop one) is not grant Sye the premise that you could be wrong about everything you know. Time and again when he's getting pinned into a corner he goes back to that crap, I've seen him bring up things from years ago. His other copout is not debating scripture to atheists. Sye and Eric are honestly a great weapon against their own religion.

​@@blacksabbath1022I'd just keep responding with, "As could you. " And then start adding, "And your failure to acknowledge that is demeaning to your intelligence and your integrity.

just for the record: that what you have described is the primary method of buddhist debates :) always reduce a discussion to a META-discussion -- problem solved.

thats exactly what atheists deserve. Christians should not be shit on by atheists

@@donhouston916 Why not? They deserve it. They shit on everyone else. Karma bitch.

well his response will be "it's been revealed to me that I can know it for certain"....so he just gets to claim infallibility without having to actually demonstrate it --- kind of like the pope.

or just don't talk to him at all...ppl like Sye makes money by talking to atheists. He records the conversations, and then sell them for money and get sponsorship. Just stop talking to him and his funds will dry up!

Good point, Marc. I've seen this done with him in a debate with Matt Dillahunty, and inded Matt bested him momentarily in this manner. Still, Sye backtracked and went through the whole loop again. In all honesty, Sye's social behavior, which reflect his intellect, are infantile, at best. Particularly in this discussion. In Sye's unique case it is best to treat him like a child, and send him to the corner, to remind him that if he won't behave with decorum and consideration, he cannot play with the big kids.

" Be proud to claim uncertainty, it is a sign of intelligence." So everyone in the conversation is arguing in the midst of uncertainty. Uncertainty means that there is information you don't know. So both people are arguing about which they do not know. So both people in the argument have to have faith about that which they are arguing.

Josh Stevenson no, being uncertain in no way requires faith - that is what is know as a false dichotomy: - the idea that either you have absolute knowledge or you have no knowledge ( and therefore must rely on faith), is simply false. I can be uncertain that gravity will continue to hold me to the planet, but I have reasonable expectations that it will. Reasonable expectations are evidence based, the evidence that gravity has consistently worked for the past 13.7 billion years leads me to trust that it will continue to do so, even though I don't know it will absolutely. There is an enormous difference between having reasonable expectations to believe, versus believing blindly out of faith. But theists play an equivocation game here where they vacillate between various meanings of the word faith - they pretend that uncertainty means faith --- that reasonable expectations are the same as faith. It doesn't and I don't know how many times this must be explained before they get it.

I will also add in that saying that we could be a brain in a vat changes nothing about knowledge. If Sye says that he believe the speed limit in front of his house is 35 miles per hour, I could ask him for justification (aka a picture) for proof. I can then concede that he knows that as of the time of that picture, he knows this to be true. If that is changed immediately following, he still knows the speed limit as of the time of that picture. Even if you add the brain in a vat, then he knows that in the reality that has been given to him in his vat, the speed limit at the time of the picture is still confirmed. Uncertainty does not change knowledge, it only adds additional detail. Sye's word game is left intentionally vague, and twists the words so as to avoid honest debate.

That is AWESOME what you just said.. replying with " i know I am not the Christian god.."..

What do you hate? That there are Christians that know what they believe and why they believe it and can communicate such effectively? Or do you simply hate God?

I hear you! Totally! Just remember, hate can be great fuel for creativity and social change! Put it to good use in fighting for reason, rationality, and secular causes!!! ❤

Dr Jones is not a Christian, He is a idoalter

What's the difference?

Timothy Wayne I bet he can spell, though.

@@DGS_1992 I'd agree with you mostly. It doesn't change anything about the fact that they've conducted themselves very respectful. ...moreso than most Christians I can think of.

They are fake Christians.... if you claim the Bible is false, then no way you know anything abouit God, you made up your own God. These two dudes seem more like atheists

Let's say he made Hovind look slightly less stupid.

No, it's more like people don't understand what pressuppsitionalism is. It's ironic for people to say something is dumb when it's due to their ignorance of the concept.

That's why he brought him with. It's like the plain looking girl bringing her fat GF to the bar so she looks better.

​@felixchien1664 I, on the other hand, understand it is dumb (that's too mild a word) BECAUSE I thoroughly understand what it is!

@@felixchien1664 it's a formal label on a concept. If i believe that the moon is made of cheese, calling it "caseulunism" isn't going to make me any less of an idiot. We know he's a presuppositionalist.

+Jonathan Simmons I haven't watched him before this but I came to the same conclusion about his mental state.

Sye ten's preys on atheists honesty. There is a debate where the atheists really answered that and later his scripts are messed up.

He is actually more genuine than Darth Dawkins.....lol

Lizza tron Sye left the stage, if i was you i would be so ashamed of saying that..."the producer of the show didn't like the argument and then he said they should move past it and that Sye was being childish, so Sye felt insulted by that and then he left the stage and after that by the way the guys went there to apologize, damn atheists have to lie on everything...i would tell you to repent but you are the god of your own ego so is worthless..."

FizzSix Who the hell is TED o.O? do you have any highschool degree to at least read english? And you sound mad, and you have been at school you wouldn't use the language that you used here, what about me telling you to go to at least primary school? How does that sound to you?

Ben G Wait ... what?!? You don't make any sense at all sir. You are claiming to be religious and defend Sye, but your arguments don't add up. Not to be insensitive but I can see why these people are making fun of you. You should try having an open mind. Sye is a self-conceited troll who is an embarrassment to your religion is is a poor representative of religion in general.

Patsy Gambrill okay

Pretty 😍

It simply because he doesn't feel the need to put blinders on when looking at his religion objectively like Sye and Eric get paid to do

After listening to creationists, it's always refreshing to listen to sane theists.

The theist Greg and Bob are very impressive. If more theist were rational, logically honest and compassionate like these guys it would be a better world.

I'd like to be a christian with that perspective.

Absolutely. I found his whole demeanor very calm, collected, and genuine. The exact opposite of Sye.

Dr Jones isn't a Christian. He rejects the resurrection, repentance and hell.

+jib1000 Ok same could be done with you.... Are you harmful? Yes. How do you know? You are a human being.... human beings cause harm..... And you've caused harm in your life..... doubtfully.... I as a follower of Christ agree that a physical church can be harmful. Just like any organization can be harmful.... its more about the people within the physical organization than about the philosophy of the organization itself.... But when Christians say they are going to Church, they are using the term lightly. Church, from a Biblical perspective is actually not a physical place AT ALL. It refers to the BODY OF BELEIVERS! Meaning ALL people who are followers of Christ..... And in the NT, we see that these believers meet once a week on the Sabbath to catch up and fellowship and teach and worship God.... Where they meet is completely irrevavant. These are just local groupings of THE CHURCH.... but over time the physical place where they meet has been termed the Church.... and most Christians I know, me being a Christian myself, clearly understand this difference.... And we understand that the physical "church" has NOTHING to do with the Gospel... and that unfortunately a large emphasis has been placed on this from a lot of Christians throughout history leading up today, and its turned into a place of divisiveness and control.... Which has NOTHING to do with the Gospel..... So if your question is whether or not the physical "church" in the loose terms that this has evolved is harmful, than the answer is neither YES nor no lolol Its "It can be"..... If you are going to be completely honest. Because I have been to many churches that are AWESOME and do a great deal of helping those in need while the Church leadership live on almost unlivable salaries.... Where people are encouraged to think critically and are open to people's opinons and problems with scripture.... ok.... So to say "YES IT IS" is just a mindless generalization.... ITs like someone asked me if school is harmful... and I could say "Yes, look at all of the mass shootings, drop outs, and look how education level has dropped as we've created more schools in America" ok.... some of those indidual statemnts may be true, but to take that and make a large generalization is nothing short of insanity.... And it shows more of an emotional frustration with the issue than an intellectual analysis of it.... Ok, that beings said. Because you are an atheist.... Before we even go into all of that, it would do us a great deal to even find out if we can our pursuit of morality and truth in general. Which we've seen that you don't even agree with the idea of absolute morality or truth.... Meaning that morality and truth is in the eye of the beholder.... Which causes a huge problem from the start.... Because asking "is?" assumes a truth or an EQUAL sign.... and then following that up with "harmful" assumes a morality..... So your answer could be "yes", and it still is meaningless.... because its just your OPINOIN!! Its not truth, and it doesn't even try to be, because you've already said that everything is SUBJECTIVE!!!!!! Meaning that there is no such thing as objective morality or truth...... So your answers means nothing to me from your world view.... It means a lot to me from my world view looking at you.... but from YOUR OWN WORLD VIEW, it is meaningless... ITs like someone asking me, "ketchup or mustard" and I say "ketchup".... Why would any one argue with that? Its their opinion, its just nice we get to see your preference, but I'm not gonna say "you are wrong lolol".... And neither would you..... But the problem is that when we take that same reasoning, and you call all of your statements and opinon just like the ketchup and mustard example, you get offended when I don't disregard your answer for meaningless.... When you say "Yes the Church is harmful" and then I ask is there objective right and wrong, and you say NO, its all subjective.... aka an opinion, I DONT KNOW WHY I SHOULD TAKE ANYTHING YOU SAY SERIOUSLY ANY MORE!!! I want to have a conversation with you, but I cant when you tell me everything you say is not a truth claim.

leon scott No, my original statement still stands. I've never said right and wrong are subjective, they are obviously objective.

+jib1000 You forgot to mention that, yes, they're objective... but NOT because of god. I have a feeling ol' Leon here would equate 'subjective' with 'people' and 'objective' with 'god'... when it should be used the more scientific terms: subjective = opinion; objective = measurable...

I don't know why anyone who debates Sye or Eric don't say that its impossible that they could be wrong about everything they know. Once they hear someone admit that they refuse to debate after that because they can just say how do you know, you could be wrong. Where as those two could be wrong about everything but they don't admit it and claim they can't be wrong about everything. So you just need to play their game of semantics.

Lomax

Lomax .mmmmm

Side note the moderator is incredible

I know this is old but that seems to be his biggest problem, his arrogance within his philosophical and intellectual approach.

With a name like " sye ten" probably so he is a shit stirrer and disinfo agent...,

everyone has the potential to be a serial killer

HE PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET!

HAHAHA! that's what I was thinking, the first time I saw that douc bag.

They’ll probably find him in a motel room with an underage boy next weekend!😜

He is such a hypocrite.. by that logic he shouldn't quote bible when talking to atheists. When he quoted the bible and atheists question it, he just run away. Coward.

Yep. I detest him. He is excruciating to watch in debate. I don't know who the hell gave him a platform. smh

He isn't a Christian so they wouldn't have him

There were 4 theists there. Pick out of the 4 which ones were the intelligent theists. Just because people believe in something I feel cannot be logically defended in any way, doesn't mean they are stupid. In fact these linguists are pretty damned smart - they are very well educated men. They have very good logic and thinking. I wouldn't be prepared to debate them on religion simply because we would agree on anything I would attack religion on. They believe in evolution, they understand how big the universe is, they don't have a problem with the big bang, etc etc etc.

Hovind has zero logic. He's a deceitful charlatan, and an idiot. Just because you're intimidated by their distortions and lies doesn't mean that they're "pretty damned smart."

sevven1 I'm not talking about Hovind. There are FOUR theists there.

fuzzywzhe _Any_ theist who joins the company of the likes of him is as much of an idiot as he is.

sevven1 As an atheist I have to disagree. Only Eric Hovind and Sye are morons, the other two seem pretty reasonable.

AbsolemLNG they seem to be a bunch of fake christians and atheists that exist to trash christianity, those are my conclusions

Never mind, his full name is Michael W. Jones. I'm going to see if he has any books on Amazon. The stuff he said about translating the Bible was very interesting!

Ya and his boy friend got his balls handed to him by Matt

ArguingFromIgnorance no 1:59 shows exactly what kind of person Eric is when pinned down with a straightforward honest question.. he can't answer or rather refuses to answer because it will expose his true nature

miss your videos on science man you're one of the best come back to us!

Well... Doctor Jones is always so calm in all the "debate" video. In this one, he is in the right at 100% but I just can't get over what Sye has said or done to make him lose is calm. But, for the video itself... Still right for a lot of thing even if we disagree on the "god" thing.

If God is "beyond our comprehension", then who are you to be so certain about who God is? Do you people listen to yourself when you talk?

@@agoo7581 I don’t, lol. I just explained that in my comment. I don’t see the issue here….

To me it seemed like he was a little too quick to up and leave. I think he realized he was way out of his league with these highly educated folks. I think he simply got scared, wanted a way out, then jumped at the opportunity when it presented itself.

MrBOASTMAN32 that’s because he doesn’t really have any knowledge or answers.

He realized he can't put out his regular shit. He doesn't have anything else, so if he puts out his shit again, he'd be booted out. He just decided to get out early.

it certainly got better when Sye left.

Yes, it sucks they could never get on subject. That shows just how harmful the Church can be, correct? lol

I *did love the fact that sye was told to leave. I just don't understand what altruistic purpose motivates a PA to establish that you(pl) can be sure to know nothing, but continues to interact with you. All I can hear is PeeWee Herman "well how do you know that!?!?"

Those theists were not Christians. That's why they were hostile to Sye.

That guy makes money though he plays one peoples ignorance.

Well Eric Hovind pretty much stole his Dad's (Kent Hovind) assets while Kent was in prison for "Structuring" - ridiculous case. Eric is a servant of mammon, not God. As sad as that is to say, we are to judge by works- he should repent and do right by his Dad now that he is out of federal prison!

LMAO yup!

He was in jail for tax evasion, something he freely admitted. Kent Hovind, an evangelist in a Creationist ministry, tried to avoid paying taxes by revoking his American citizenship, claiming to be “a natural sojourner” whose income belonged to God. web.archive.org/web/20060509013918/www.digitaljournal.com/news/?articleID=4329 Among other crimes including mail fraud. "Structuring" is just one of the many crimes he was guilty of, not the ONLY crime he was arrested for. You don't get 10 years for structuring. His main crime was tax evasion on millions of dollars. So stop buying into this internet bullshit that he was sent to jail for "structuring". This is false. Eric is just as big a scumbag as his dad and has already robbed him and tried to evict him. They truly deserve each other. Two criminals out to scam as many people as they can.

TheBay12345 selling harmful products should be one of them i mean really vitamin b17.... or i could say cyanide pills

They are con artists, its just the modern version of Jim Baker here.

Yep. . .compared to Sye. . .Eric is an open minded rational human being.

would you prefer that he just let someone be willfully ignorant? typical American you are

dont think these two are real theists.... He thinks the bible is evil.. FAKE CHRISTIANS

Who is who?