Can you guys do a documentary on the good old "Divide and Conquer" strategy that Western imperialists have been playing all over the world for centuries now? 😊 Create conflict in other people's regions, so you can reap the benefits. In this case, transfer TSMC's advanced chip making technology into the US. What a shamelessly evil culture, the West is 😅

Actually the solution is quite easy, secure tw self defence capabilities and it’s democratic system

WSJ please change this voice. It is annoying for international viewers from Europe. Have another speaker or voice please.

Quantum technology is also China's strength.

Unions are evil and similar communists.

Imagine making chips in your country without anyone from your own country actually learning how the process works lol. How unreasonable to expect that businesses operating locally should employ the locals?

well said

Not exactly, a newly graduate with several weeks of training can do it.

Since when have collective-blackmail unions been about rationality or quality assurance?

Its dirty trick where the USA trying to steal the Intellectual Property.

Good thing that the US is a huge country with many allies and open to migration. Plus they have deep traditions in chip manufaacturing.

Those talents travel, not to mention poll of people in US is a lot bigger than those of Taiwan-same goes for China

The main reason U$A will never able to compete in Chip manufacturing. All the country that do well in chip manufacturing , has Confucianism culture. For chip manufacturing, a high level of discipline is the key, and most Americans today don't possess it. They call it “forced labour" Taiwanese media reported on August 2 that TSMC claimed the production holdup at its Arizona facility was caused by a shortage of trained American labour and that they had sent staff from Taiwan to assist with the factory's development. Labour union officials in Arizona, on the other hand, criticised TSMC for exploiting this as a justification to bring in "low-wage foreign labour."

Samsung can make those AI chip and other chips as well but at lower yield rate, so Taiwan’s TSMC is just cheaper to make those, that is all. Also now TSMC is opening factories in US, Japan & Germany. I am not sure why everyone is making big fuss about it. So what if we are now using 3nm, 2nm or 1nm, as time goes by, it will be smaller by TSMC or Samsung. It is just TSMC is 1 year ahead of Samsung, that is all. future AI chips will be faster just like all other chips in history of time.

Slava TSMC 🇹🇼

Because of what again? Could you repeat that part again? You said SECURITY? And what was that other word- SELF-PRESERVATION? China will gobble up Taiwan in an instant without US support. I happen to think that Taiwan's government's main security interest is to NOT get conquered by the enemy. They will send their absolute #1 best and most cutting edge chips over here, or their new boss will be Winnie the Pooh.

What are you talking about? Isn’t it already happening???

@@EhCloserLook no… I know this industry extremely well. TSMC will always have the bleeding edge in Taiwan. Everything outside will be a generation or two behind, which will still be top-notch. But Apple, Nvidia, Alphabet, Meta, etc. do not really care about anything but the bleeding edge. Especially Apple and Nvidia.

So far, arguably what you said is right. but what if Samsung gains ground on TSMC and risks from China grow more in the future? Most of developed countries like US, Europe, Japan would not want to take some potential risks that China can make. Still, TSMC is beating the pants off Samsung overwhelmingly, but when they are caught up and have to compete equally with Samsung which is located in safe place compared to Taiwan, they will have no choice but to move their factories to other safe countries even the top-notch. It can be far future or there would be no possibility for Samsung to catch up, but as we know, there has been no company that always could hold the top position especially in Tech sector.

@@ussj-mb7dr it will take so, so much to even much TSMC at this point. For at least the next 15 years, they are virtually a monopoly on bleeding edge semiconductors. The reason for that is that these factories as basically living, breathing organisms. And so much of it is the know how of building them like that, which only Taiwan has, and the people, skill set, tribal knowledge, patents, you name it. Just to build a factory like that will take half a decade at best. Nailing it on first try, would be next to impossible. So, considering it will take a few tries to get there, it is still a long, long way off.

labour union will prevent that.

we actually do here in the US as well lol.

And we have had for decades the same ecosystem here in the United States where most of the backbone of the semiconductor industry is based (KLA, Applied Materials, Cadence, Synopsis) and more than 90% of the chip designs (Apple, IBM, Intel, AMD, Qualcomm).

Labor is not a factor anymore -- look at the video of most Fabs -- very automated. The reason that Arizona is attractive to so many semiconductor companies is because 1) Cheap power - and the 2nd most stable grid in the USA, 2) Cheap land, 3) No natural disasters, 4) Cheap water (remember, 1/2 of Arizona looks like Colorado with 100's of lakes and underground aquifers), 5) A university (ASU) that graduates 7,000 engineers a year, 5) A semiconductor ecosystem that started in 1970s with Motorola and Intel that now spans 1000's of companies like ASM, ASML, Applied Materials, Tokyo Electron, Intel, Microchip, Amkor, EMD Electronics, Onsemi, Benchmark and many more.

Also what Americans overlook is that it was the One China policy that allowed for Taiwan to thrive with a stoppage of violence in the civil war. Now some geniuses have decided the One China policy is not convenient anymore. Hence the real reason TSMC has to build overseas.

They're also related

They are related

They're blood related family

Fun fact - the founder of TSMC was born on Mainland China. Taiwanese are Han Chinese people

Fun fact. The microprocessor was invented in the United States - ever hear of Moores law? And given that all the industry titans from Intel to NVIDIA, AMD, Microchip, Onsemi, Wolfspeed, Skyworks, KLA, AMAT, Synopsys, and 1000s more are USA based companies I would say the United States is clearly the world leader in all things semiconductor. Just because the Chinese can copy and steal technology doesn't mean a thing.

It does, logically. Without this type of commitment, the other side could expect to gain much more from a unilateral change in the status quo. With the commitment, the value they can expect to derive from doing so diminishes. Thereby making the continuation of Taiwanese independence more likely.

I thought exactly this.. The irony!...

LOL

Sematech again...

Intel, Texas Instruments, Microchip, Micron.... etc.

@@Kdgattowhere do do you think intel fabs their high end chips?

The design of the chips & machines used in chip fabrication are (in most part if not all) using US patents by US scientists/ organizations (aka US $$$). Yes, even the EUV or Ultra-EUV machines made by ASML (Dutch company) uses US patents in their design... The chip fabrication outsourcing to TSMC and therefore not incurring with the total cost of developing the manufacturing process from the ground up was one of the reasons why AMD was able to catch-up and even surpass (in some applications) Intel, which up until around 2020 had a "traditional" approach where they had to do R&D for the Chip design AND chip manufacturing (having difficulty in implementing/ using EUV machines) which effectively almost DOUBLED the cost of R&D as a whole for a new lithography process. Same thing that allowed Apple to design its own chip and have TSMC fabricate it for them, it would NOT have happened if they had to also invest in R&D on how to fabricate the chips because they would never make a profit (take the Apple Car project which was abandoned and had a much lower difficulty barrier). TSMC obviously has its own proprietary techniques and extremely competent employees and undoubtably (together with Taiwan) became a node of extremely talented engineers & specialists in chip manufacturing, they haven't become the "beast" they are by luck. Nonetheless there was A LOT of western investment in making it what it is today. The threat of hindering the chip supply chain so that the US "pew-pew" industry falls short is a matter of national security. Security of interests & security of investments, so you wouldn't really want to facilitate technology transfer in anyway which could expedite a challenging country to "skip steps" you had to go through without incurring the cost and time to do so. Take Chinese "stealth fighters", capable copies of US & Russian aircraft which are now used to threaten... take a guess.... Taiwan! yay! Hence why they are correctly bringing back fabs in the US as well as other strategic locations in the world with potentially lower geopolitical risk. So the only ironic part of any of this is that you tried to make a snazzy comment, just to be schooled.

Grrr but me hate America so you’re wrong.

Free market capitalism created TSMC.

Slava 🇹🇼 Heroyam TSMC 🦾

@@s0kulite No hard work & $$$ can't make a company becoming the strongest on this planet..many companies failed the competition!

Slava 🇹🇼 Heroyam TAIWANese 🦾

China has now got their hands on these chips, guess what happens next.

NVIDIA and AMD CEO are also Taiwanese

​@@tedstewart114boom 💥

@@tedstewart114 Impossible...

Dear Patrick I guess you forgot to mention the share options they get each year If you work for tsmc for 10 years, basically you don’t need to worry about money for rest of your life

Dear Jenny, I guess you forgot to factor in the liver damage done due to the pressure and work hours. If you have enough liver damage, you don't have to worry about money for rest of your life. You have the life itself to worry about. Also, building fabs in expensive countries eats into the share values coz who makes the promise the foreign fabs are going to be as successful (or even profitable) without the conditions which makes Taiwan fabs successful in the first place.

@@jaybestemployee Agreed. Health > Wealth

@@jaybestemployee Dear Jay, I guess you forgot about other industries also have your so called liver pressure! If you work in Wall Street, would you also have liver pressure? If you are a miner , you would not only have liver pressure but also lungs pressure A lot of the teachers in the western countries, they say they have heart pressure Haha

@@jennychuang808 Dear Jenny, for one I heard bankers like to quit their job to open coffee shops like a lifestyle choice so the pressure is there, not sure to which organ. As adults, pressure is unavoidable. Point is what you are trading that for. They have a big number of printed (or digital) money for you to die for but you only have few organs which are also expensive if possible to replace. so make your choice and may god bless your liver. haha

Compared to hiring similar engineers in the US or Europe, absolutely. Taiwanese engineers are known for working hours unimaginable for western engineers

Indeed, we are hard working people Those you so called “cheap labor “ get share options from TSMC each year and I can tell you they are not cheap at all

@@peterk371 They work for a reason, not childless hr women who call you xir xor they thom

Won't be the best chips likely

I read that it's 6-7nm chips, not the coveted 3nm

@@jctai100 None of the factories outside Taiwan will produce the highest-end chips, since TSMC is already slated to start building 2 nm and even 1 nm chips in the next few years.

@@MarkWTK It's actually 20nm & 28nm (Fab 1) for producing camera and automobile chips. Fab 2 Japan with 6nm to 12nm will come 3 years later. 😉

I believe only TSMC and Samsung are producing the best 3 nanometer chips. Intel is doing 5 nanometer while the best chip producer in China can only do 7 nanometer right now. The rest are are even more behind.

Liar. He rose thru the ranks at Texas Instruments until he became group vice president. That's not something a racist company allows. He left cuz d company changed biz direction. Find another blame.

Taiwan recalled nationals back and the TSMC founder answered that call. He also foresaw the tech boom to be Asian focused in the 80s and made a move back. Can’t fault him for that. He spent his childhood over there.

@@swimmerboy172 He was born in Mainland China.

Ultimate irony is TSMC founder wasn't born on Taiwan nor in the US. The biggest irony is where he was born. Check it out.

What exactly did the United States do to itself? Taiwan has TSMC and a couple of other companies. The United States is home to all of the companies that matter - Intel, AMD, NVIDIA, Qualcomm, Synopsis, Cadence, Texas Instruments, Applied Materials, Amkor, Super Micro, and the list goes on.

Yes yes it is

The Silicon must flow.....

😂😆 the sugar mounds must flow...lol

You are thinking it like opening a bank branch abroad. The fabs are part of the local ecosystem, there is a steady supply of top engineering graduates in Taiwan who don't mind manufacturing work, which often not found in other countries. Its success also has a lot to do with Taiwan style management which would be rejected by employees in another country.

The cutting edge tech remains inside Taiwan, fabs outside Taiwan isn’t as advanced as it is inside.

Who cares?American Boss 🤔

tw is just playing card, u.s don't care anything but their own interests.

Taiwan is in danger either way as China has been pushing to make their own chips.

6.6 billion funding by the US government. The rest of the cost is paid by TSMC itself. TSMC has $161 billion USD in assets and $94.5 billion in equity so it should have more than enough to fund the rest of the plant.

@@elmagnificoroca But after many years TSMC still did not receive any $ 😅

Critical to US security yet they're sending Billions more to Ukraine, is that not a contradiction in terms "

I dont think TSMC plans to build the best chips in the US. Maybe the second best chips but not the best. Taiwan's dominance in chip manufacturing is part of its defense strategy for decades.

​@@AJ-jx5gm AMD, NVIDIA, Apple and Qualcomm have told TSMC their chips MUST BE MADE IN THE USA. Which means the 2 and 1 nm will be built in TSMC Arizona.

this is what happens when politics overtake practicality and good-business sense. It's doomed to fail.

Colorado river supplies Arizona with most of its water. Yes levels of water in lake mead have gone down but I wouldn't say we are in danger or at a point that would cause us to impose restrictions on users.

Artificial water systems. efforts of reusing & recycling water is wiser for long term sustainability against short term logistical advantage of placing the fab factories near a body of water.

pork

I understand a good amount of water as pure and clean as possible is needed during startup but afterwards can be mostly but not completely self sustaining as water is recycled

Thats called intel....theyll beat tsmc.

​​​​​​​​​​​@@thehulk8539 I was in the system decades ago. no one can beat Taiwan's TSMC because you're not competing Intel such like company, you're competing the culture, the supplier chain, human resource that no company in any country has, can't copy, nor compete, even TSMC itself in other country.

@@user-ei3fp8yj5i I am sure it has nothing to do with chip making machines from ASML.

Its because of ecosystem taiwan has with china. They and Taiwan make up the talent pool together supporting eachother like ying yang(lol). You need their culture

Why would Google do that when dedicated US chip companies exist already and get subsidies? Think.

The microchips are what is important to anyone who isn't China.

Correct. The U$ considers the island of Taiwan as their *unsinkable aircraft carrier* off the Chinese coast. So we can only hope that they won't be able to use it against Сhina the same way they have used Ukr against Rus.

At least you aren't pretending that it's about Taiwanese democracy. That Taiwan happens to be a functioning, vibrant democracy is an added rhetorical bonus lol

Who ever controls AI WILL control the world, its the technology of technologies, so the microchips argument is not `easy to understand` its the truth. Every single thing we have from ships to planes to tanks to cars every single one needs `intelligence` to build INTELLIGENCE its the most valuable thing in the world now and has been for centuries.

@@dunnowy123Imaging Chinese submarines operating out of east coast of Taiwan. US would lose their track in the deep water as soon as they left the bases. Right now, all Chinese submarines can be easily tracked in the shallow water of continental shelf around their current bases.

mei guo baba. Your gov has been bought up by special interests and most have houses in the US when bad stuff happens.

Factoring in you having the ability to study in the states, you are in the elite league thanks to your family. I think you will be fine either way, no need to keep the anxiety. While I served my four months, my salary was 6000 ntd per month, subtracting fees for buses, food and sanitary equipments I couldn’t save a penny. I guarantee you people have had to spend their own money to serve their mandatory military service for years. Though it may be frustrating to extend the service time, the raised salary is a good news. I believe we can urge the ministry of defense to better train the conscripts together so they don’t feel a waste of time in there. I want to first gather info to make a to improve list for lawmakers to improve the mod.

What is DEI

@@andrewday3206 Diversity Equity and Inclusion. It’s a movement you see the left try to push into everything. It’s nothing but a bunch of post modern racism.

​@@andrewday3206diversity something

This is also what I heard from the industry insiders.

There is a robust ecosystem of over 1000 semiconductor companies in Arizona and Amkor is spending $2B on a plant down the road from TSMC to package the chips. 100% American made

@@Maxpasadena Critical tech is still kept in Taiwan.

@@censoredyoutube4902 As in WHAT? I don't think you know what you are talking about. The chips will be made in America for American companies. Nothing will be shipped back to Taiwan - which would defeat the purpose of building the fabs here in the first place.

@@Maxpasadena You obviously lack basic knowledge about supply chains of semiconductor. I've been a long term investor of US semiconductor sector and TSMC as well for decades. Taiwan still holds the critical and most advanced tech to process chips, always in 1 - 2 generations ahead of the American plants. One semiconductor company CEO in Taiwan once said that the packaging of chips made in TSMC AZ branch still need to be done in Taiwan.

yes, but higher price 😄

They are learning to make their own fabs😂

china's simc makes up to 7 nm chips, tell me how China can't maintain tsmc

@@user-go2fl1ow2kyeah you know how to make a carpet, so you know how to build a car as well😂

so you assume Chinese will be invading TW with flying shovels and washing machines, right? Since all modern weapons needs chips🤓

Semiconductors has nothing to do with the China-Taiwan conflict. It’s the Chinese Civil War that has never officially ended.

The US mafia creates insecurity to sell security. You should point your finger elsewhere.

And what about billions sent to israel

Fabs its economy issue at first place. Ukraine case is a national security issue at first place . 95 Billion not in cash ! but it's local investment in local industry , reinvestment in American companies. Fabs etc .. private companies from all the world and there is limitation for subsides subsides subsides theoretically is against the free market roles, and that make a lot of other big economies make the same, and all the idea behind free market will destroyed

It’s simplistic to assume it’s only about the chips. For china it’s about prestige internal security and cohesion and also very importantly about crippling us pacific defence chains the run through Taiwan.

Xi Jinping is the biggest robber in the world history. England can’t even compared.

China doesn’t care about Taiwan’s Chip. The reunification is pure about history and nationalism.

But China can produce relative lower chip all by thierselves, not many other countries can say the same. So destorying the chip factories at least can level the playground for a while.

China's fabs are 3 years behind Taiwan's fabs in terms of technology. I'm sure they could figure it out.

KZfaq partakes in a lot of filtering that may be mistaken for the individual channel

@@kv4648 I made sure only to use completely inoffensive words to explain a basic economic concept. It never got through. On other channels I've made similar comments with no issues, so it's 100% a problem with the channel filter. I'm honestly surprised my comment above didn't get the same treatment.

@@VVayVVard It's basic YT cen*orship. It's complicated, but very dumb words can be cen*ored by YT's algo. Welcome to the world of corporation-control

China does not yet have the technological know how to replicate Taiwan's cutting edge fabrication infrastructure, but we can't count on the PRC to not catch up at some point.

TSMC's Arizona fab is targeting 5nm by 2026 and wafers still need to be shipped to Asia including China for packaging SMIC is already producing 5nm this year and China already have everything from ingot production to wafer to packaging to assembly US policy are set by tech illiterate politicians with no idea how the industry works, it's almost comical.

​@@bearowen5480Pretty sure they have the know how, they've been poaching TSMC employees for a while now. I'm pretty sure they lack the full supply line though, especially if they get cut off from ASML

Industry experts are now saying that China is only 3 years behind on the leading edge chip fabriation technology, and the present size of chips can only get a little bit smaller. In other words, in 10-15 years, China will be caught up with the leading edge chip manufacturing technology.

It's not just a matter of 'spooling up', though. These technologies are the result of a series of breakthroughs so unlikely that there's usually only one player in the space with the arsenal of trade secrets sufficient enough to compete. Like ASML or Zeiss, for example. It's not simply years away, its multiple, successive breakthroughs away all coming together to not just make a chip, but make them reliably enough that the yield is economically viable and at a time scale that aligns with the west's momentum in pursuing Moore's law. It's not a finish line that you just need to keep steady pace on, it's a series of never ending ultramarathons through the Himalayas. If WSJ were to really dive into this angle, they would have to explain the embargos, national interest preservation measures, limitations of physics, yield and economics, never-ending supply chains, trade secrets, etc. They could, but I don't call foul for leaving it out of this video. However, I think your idea is a great idea for a video series from the WSJ. While I agree the WSJ could have shown the china angle more explicitly, the threat from China is inherent. I don't think it was implied that China would invade to acquire TSMC, the play would always be to cripple the west. They definitely did acknowledge the adversary in the room. Silicon chips are essentially very fancy sand. There's nothing inherently scarce/expensive about the atoms that make them up. With better and better industrial infrastructure, the cost of compute will asymptotically approach $0, limited only by energy's ability to approach $0 and the cost of sand itself.

it’s Taiwanese technology. They decide where it can be built or not. US corporations don’t have the patents and the knowledge. Since American corporations didn’t invest/succeed at the time the technologies were developed. The US can’t steal it from Taiwanese corporations. And for national security reasons Taiwan likely won’t allow too much production outside of Taiwan.

@@abrakkehakka1357it’s actually dutch and german technology. The lithography machines and lenses. Taiwan commercialised it at scale.

There are always those who oppose investments in new technologies, unfortunately. At least we're fortunate enough to have had Taiwan as the pioneer in this respect.

@@thedownunderverseSomeone compared it to a restaurant or bakery. The Dutch supply the oven but the Taiwanese is the Chef or cook.

they were in the US a long time ago , but diminishing costs abroad made it so basically every tech company started to make their chips offshore.

Not true - Fab 1 is now running with 2,200 employees.

The One China policy is what protected Taiwan. But you prefer to fight??? How does that make sense...??

@@Amidat Why is Taiwan related to Chinese policy? Taiwan self-identifies as separate from China, and China has never governed Taiwan.

@@genuinennessbefitting4734 Because the western media doesn't tell you the truth. The constitution on the island calls itself the Republic of China and claims the territory of Mainland China as well. From the founding of the UN until the 1970's Taiwan represented ALL of China at the UN. A vote was hold to see what most countries believed as to who should represent China as a result of a stalled civil war. They voted Beijing... That started the One China policy among almost all countries. Go read it yourself. Don't rely on the lying media

How is it steal when Taiwan is willingly moving its operations to safe places facing the existential threat posed by CCP? Lone Wolf Diplomacy making enemies all around you not working out for you? CCP made this bed.

And they will rebuild it, and it will start producing the same chips within few years even if they destroy it. It's China.

You are projecting American behavior on China. The U.S. is sanctioning China via chip access

This statement, to this date, has never been true

Isn't that the US's goal? Literally at 3:30 they said USA plans to blow up Taiwanese chip fabs.

Slava TSMC 🇹🇼

Do you not know KMT is not our government now. Tsai and Lai are both DPP. Anti-China.... The Chinese claim to Taiwan is actually very weak. Only for 4 years (end of WW2-1949) was more than half of the island controlled from China. The Japanese rule lasted far longer (and was the first real governing of the whole island under one government). Before that most of the land was under Taiwanese Aboriginal control. That we are not in the UN is only because of the China veto power.

The US has deep traditions in creating chips. Not so long ago, they were the leaders in chip manufacturing.

Arizona has a diverse portfolio of water. Phoenix Metro uses no more water today with 5.1 million residents as it used in 1990 with 2 million residents. The Colorado River only accounts for 36% with most of that going to agriculture.

Look at Google earth -- half of Arizona is made up of mountainous forests with lakes and a lot of annual snowfall. Combined with vast aquifers water is cheaper than most other places. Also, over 90% of the TSMC water will be recycled just as Intel and Samsung recycle the bulk of their water.

Slava TSMC 🇹🇼

Except that TSMC workers lost their jobs and got their working visa rejected 😅 Oh, that sounds even greater for their "protectors" in US

Because they were the ones to invest in that technology. Free market capitalism.

Because Taiwan's Morris Chang came up with the idea of semiconductor foundry (i.e. only manufacturing) while Intel insisted on design+manufacture.

Because no American company made the right moves to capitalize on this market. It's called free market capitalism which American espouses, tends to be pretty good at, but can't always emerge victorious in every market. So deal with it 😂

Because it got built, and then you decided to treat China as an enemy.

why is it that you buy into the propaganda that the most important foreign relationship right now is the enemy?

Steal? TSMC is getting paid heavily for all of this.

@@hellzshotgun yeah We also paid fat check/free land to Telsa, and "secure" Tesla's EV supply chain to China.

The US pays greatly for these chips. Also, considering that the US is the prime place for designers and engineers of semiconductors, I don't see why they shouldn't be made there

You must be a CCP plant. 1) If you can Google, you will see that TSMC is going to build 2 and 1 nm in Arizona, 2) China can't do anything below 7 nm because the USA has restricted the sale of key equipment from ASML and Applied Materials to do this -- hence China is F'd, 3) A $2B packaging plant is being built down the road from TSMC to package the chips made at these fabs. You do realize SMIC is a joke? Making chips for toasters and dishwashers is all SMIC is going to be able to do given the sanctions the USA has placed on China

TEMPE, Ariz.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Nov. 30, 2023-- Amkor Technology, Inc. (Nasdaq: AMKR), a leading provider of semiconductor packaging and test services, has announced its plan to build an advanced packaging and test facility in Peoria, Arizona. By the time of full project completion, Amkor projects to invest approximately $2 billion and employ approximately 2,000 people at the new facility. Amkor worked closely with Apple on the strategic vision and initial manufacturing capability of the Peoria facility, which will package and test chips produced for Apple at the nearby TSMC fab. When the new facility opens, Apple will be its first and largest customer. Amkor first established its presence in the Greater Phoenix area in 1984 and is excited to expand its footprint in the evolving Arizona semiconductor industry. The new manufacturing location will uniquely position Amkor among a strong ecosystem of front-end fabs, IDMs, and suppliers with current or expanding presence in the area, including TSMC, Intel, Applied Materials, ASML and others.